Be patient

[beast of the east]

People can criticize Lavin all you want for this year if we don't do well but he has to get credit for that 1st year. I don't care who ran practices or whatever I watched every time he gathered the team around during breaks during games and he wasn't sitting there playing with his thumbs.

He gets credit for that season.

He gets credit for giving the ball to Dwight Hardy and then not getting in the way of one of the great season-long individual efforts SJU fans have ever seen. I wouldn't give him credit for much more than that, and I'm really not willing to give him a whole lot of credit for figuring out that he had to give the ball to the only legitimate scorer on the team if he wanted to score any points (I am intentionally omitting Sean Evans here).

That team used exactly the same offensive philosophy we used last year - give the ball to your scorer and everyone else gets out of the way. It worked with a great player on a team full of seniors, plus a total of one player he added - which player promptly departed at the end of the season. I've actually lost count of the Lavin-era departures.

jarvis got no credit for winning with Fran's players (and rightly so). Lavin gets none for winning with Norm's players.

There was a stretch that teams would try bringing up the ball against us and they literally wouldn't know what to do against out D

Yes, Norm did nothing but coach D. He never seemed to understand that you actually need to score points to win, that you can't defend the other team into negative points. So Lavin inherited a group that had a ton of experience playing defense since that was all anybody had cared about for the first 3 years of their college careers.

How's our D been since?

Wow - that's a new twist on NR that I must have missed - a great defensive coach! I'm about to puke. The best thing Norm defends is his career as a losing head coach.

 

[fuchsia]

People can criticize Lavin all you want for this year if we don't do well but he has to get credit for that 1st year. I don't care who ran practices or whatever I watched every time he gathered the team around during breaks during games and he wasn't sitting there playing with his thumbs.

He gets credit for that season.

He gets credit for giving the ball to Dwight Hardy and then not getting in the way of one of the great season-long individual efforts SJU fans have ever seen. I wouldn't give him credit for much more than that, and I'm really not willing to give him a whole lot of credit for figuring out that he had to give the ball to the only legitimate scorer on the team if he wanted to score any points (I am intentionally omitting Sean Evans here).

That team used exactly the same offensive philosophy we used last year - give the ball to your scorer and everyone else gets out of the way. It worked with a great player on a team full of seniors, plus a total of one player he added - which player promptly departed at the end of the season. I've actually lost count of the Lavin-era departures.

jarvis got no credit for winning with Fran's players (and rightly so). Lavin gets none for winning with Norm's players.

It could also be said that Fran and Jarvis got credit for winning with Ernie Lorch's Riverside players.

 

[simplyred]

Beast, Norm's teams did play good defense. Don't let your hatred for him and his overall lack of success cloud your ability to see that. That's why Paris was such an integral part of the team. He came in as an athlete with mediocre basketball skills. However, he was a tough defender who eventually developed a decent jumpshot. Sean Evans, for all of his deficiencies on the offensive end, was a tough defender.

 

[beast of the east]

Lavin played Brownlee too- give him credit for that

Not only that, but Lavin shifted the focus of the offense to Hardy and Brownlee, deploying Kennedy as a glue type of guy who fills a stat sheet, plays defense, but isn't the marquis offensive guy he was for Roberts. Lavin correctly assessed that the two headed point guard system (Boothe and Stith) deployed by Roberts was a failure and made Hardy the point out of position - for that bold move he deserves a ton of credit. IT was as if Roberts saw himself when playing runty guards better suited for D2 as running the show for a Big East team. For those moves alone, including limiting Sean Evans playing and stopping those crazy end-to-end drives by Evans, Lavin deserves credit (sorry Bobre). In essence Lavin and co, took the same ingredients and made something really nice out of it. Norm by comparison was a grill guy in MacDonalds who burned the burgers.

By the same token, although Fran brought in some grade A talent, Jarvis brought them to a whisper of the final four. Jarvis may have been a rat, arrogant, nasty - fill in whatever expletive you wish and you won't get an argument here - but he could coach a game and a team. This explains why he got a second shot at coaching.

 

[Class of 72]

The coaches read these views and should improve their approach to coaching accordingly.

Are you implying that Lavin and his staff reads this site (which they very well may), and that they should listen/adjust to what people say on this site?

You quoted the wrong poster! That suggestion was a "wish" and a "prayer". Lavin may not listen to his own Hall of Fame advisor for all we know! But a good CEO better listen to his customer's views of his product. If people stop buying and the seats become empty that does not bode well for the either the CEO or the company. Although just a sport played by college kids, this is a big business with a large investment and not some high school team with a free sneakers from Nike.

If you think that good CEO's should listen to what their customers have to say, then you are sorely mistaken. For starters, you are never going to be able to please everyone, so you can't keep making adjustments all of the time just because of a few upset people. Also, what are the customers qualifications to view/critique his product? I've never played football a day in my life, so if I wrote Tom Coughlin and was complaining about how I was unhappy with the Giants and offered suggestions on how I would do things differently, do you think he would listen to me?? Do you honestly think that Pepsi's CEO really cares what Joe Smith from middle of nowhere, Utah really thinks about Pepsi?

So why would/should Lavin listen to what his 'customers' have to say? His 'customers' are not at every practice, his 'customers' are not watching film, scouting, etc........How do you think this would go over in a post game interview: quote from Steve Lavin, "Well we decided to press more because the other day I was reading redmen.com and a poster named 'Class of 72' recommended it, so I decided to give it a shot." And you can use the empty seat reasoning all you want, but guess what? It is not Steve Lavin's job to improve the bottom line. It is not his job to sell seats. He does not have 'customers'. His job is to win basketball games.

I gather you are not familiar with Marketing 101. There are donors and sponsors among the basketball supporters. Mike Repole is one of them. There are sponsors like Fox1, UnderArmor, etc. There is a Red/White Club. It is not just the 2 dozen posters that enjoy discussing redmen basketball on the intawebs.
There is positive PR and negative PR. Positive PR is living up to expectations like playing well and winning more games than you should lose. Negative PR is advertising all over NYC (Times Square, Buses, Newspapers) and playing poorly and losing games, leading to poor attendance, lower revenue and bad reviews by sports writers. If Steve Lavin did not have customers he would be out of a job!
Here is a simple example that may clarify things: Doctors have patients. Those patients are considered customers. Now most of those customers did not attend medical school but in today's world patient reviews are very important to that doctor's success. Too may negative experiences, too many complaints, too many lawsuits and the doctor's practice suffers.
I have a dear friend who worked for Proctor and Gamble all over the world in quality control management. They spent millions annually in consumer research like focus groups, testing and surveys. A CEO's job depended on the bottom line and shareholder returns and customer satisfaction is the only thing that induced repeat customers. When MSG is mostly empty and SJ loses games, everyone starts to take notice. If most become dissatisfied (Repole, UU, fans, media), and other stakeholders the AD, Lavin's boss, in consultation with the Prsident, would make a decision to retain or dismiss.
The ONE positive Lavin has in that regard at the time is that SJU does not have a president but a retired Vincentian caretaker. The fact is that SJ cannot even get its academic house in order at present and a national search is under way to find a person qualified to lead our university. When that search is over, it will be interesting to see what emphasis the basketabll program is given in the new Big East. A smart president with an eye towards the bottom line will want to maximize the schools only profit making sport.

So you can buy stock in SJU basketball? Your arguments make sense in a business world, and even though it is a business, it is not the same thing. The success/failure of our basketball team cannot ultimately impact your bottom line, because you have nothing invested in it.

Ok, I surrender!
But I look at it from the point of view of a consumer who invests in the product via tickets, etc. Over the course of a season some here will spend more than $2,000 supporting the team. Some travel to away games, etc. What many experience with poor performance is post-purchase dissonance. Although wanting to stay loyal, they get anxious and negative. .Me and some others get that way but others stop purchasing the tickets and lose complete interest.

 

[Redzone]

It is actually. Is there a waiting period on stating the obvious?

 

[usguard]

Just more the same this year. To quote my old HS Coach Russ B. "cant hit a bull in the butt with as shovel if it was tied to his tail" Plan to do the same this year as in the past watch some great efforts some incredibly confusing efforts and wait for the NIT selections.

Please be advised that the winner of the Big East Tournament gets an automatic bid. The game is played at MSG. Does not matter what our record is!
I just want to see improvements every game.

.

Winning that might turn out to be our only .hope