Be patient

[ccnobz]

Lavin played Brownlee too- give him credit for that

 

[monte]

The success of the team during Lavins 1st year was due to two things:

1. It was actually coached by Mike Dunlap
2. Hardy emerged as an uber clutch superstar

minus either of these two things, that team would have been in the NIT again.

Hardy was to Lavin what David Cain was to Mahoney.

 

[Class of 72]

The coaches read these views and should improve their approach to coaching accordingly.

Are you implying that Lavin and his staff reads this site (which they very well may), and that they should listen/adjust to what people say on this site?

You quoted the wrong poster! That suggestion was a "wish" and a "prayer". Lavin may not listen to his own Hall of Fame advisor for all we know! But a good CEO better listen to his customer's views of his product. If people stop buying and the seats become empty that does not bode well for the either the CEO or the company. Although just a sport played by college kids, this is a big business with a large investment and not some high school team with a free sneakers from Nike.

If you think that good CEO's should listen to what their customers have to say, then you are sorely mistaken. For starters, you are never going to be able to please everyone, so you can't keep making adjustments all of the time just because of a few upset people. Also, what are the customers qualifications to view/critique his product? I've never played football a day in my life, so if I wrote Tom Coughlin and was complaining about how I was unhappy with the Giants and offered suggestions on how I would do things differently, do you think he would listen to me?? Do you honestly think that Pepsi's CEO really cares what Joe Smith from middle of nowhere, Utah really thinks about Pepsi?

So why would/should Lavin listen to what his 'customers' have to say? His 'customers' are not at every practice, his 'customers' are not watching film, scouting, etc........How do you think this would go over in a post game interview: quote from Steve Lavin, "Well we decided to press more because the other day I was reading redmen.com and a poster named 'Class of 72' recommended it, so I decided to give it a shot." And you can use the empty seat reasoning all you want, but guess what? It is not Steve Lavin's job to improve the bottom line. It is not his job to sell seats. He does not have 'customers'. His job is to win basketball games.

I gather you are not familiar with Marketing 101. There are donors and sponsors among the basketball supporters. Mike Repole is one of them. There are sponsors like Fox1, UnderArmor, etc. There is a Red/White Club. It is not just the 2 dozen posters that enjoy discussing redmen basketball on the intawebs.
There is positive PR and negative PR. Positive PR is living up to expectations like playing well and winning more games than you should lose. Negative PR is advertising all over NYC (Times Square, Buses, Newspapers) and playing poorly and losing games, leading to poor attendance, lower revenue and bad reviews by sports writers. If Steve Lavin did not have customers he would be out of a job!
Here is a simple example that may clarify things: Doctors have patients. Those patients are considered customers. Now most of those customers did not attend medical school but in today's world patient reviews are very important to that doctor's success. Too may negative experiences, too many complaints, too many lawsuits and the doctor's practice suffers.
I have a dear friend who worked for Proctor and Gamble all over the world in quality control management. They spent millions annually in consumer research like focus groups, testing and surveys. A CEO's job depended on the bottom line and shareholder returns and customer satisfaction is the only thing that induced repeat customers. When MSG is mostly empty and SJ loses games, everyone starts to take notice. If most become dissatisfied (Repole, UU, fans, media), and other stakeholders the AD, Lavin's boss, in consultation with the Prsident, would make a decision to retain or dismiss.
The ONE positive Lavin has in that regard at the time is that SJU does not have a president but a retired Vincentian caretaker. The fact is that SJ cannot even get its academic house in order at present and a national search is under way to find a person qualified to lead our university. When that search is over, it will be interesting to see what emphasis the basketabll program is given in the new Big East. A smart president with an eye towards the bottom line will want to maximize the schools only profit making sport.

 

[Class of 72]

The success of the team during Lavins 1st year was due to two things:

1. It was actually coached by Mike Dunlap
2. Hardy emerged as an uber clutch superstar

minus either of these two things, that team would have been in the NIT again.

I respectfully disagree with item# 1.
I had the pleasure of attending a few practices that first year. Mike basically ran the practices with an iron fist. DJ Kennedy and Justine Burrell carried "the bat" around more times than they wished to remember until they got with the program. Steve "coached" the team that entire year. He consulted with Mike on the sidelines and did not rely on discussions with Rico as he does now (to no avail ). Rico was a 1-1 player coach and had no input in game strategy regarding offenses or defenses. That seems to somehow changed and not for the better.

 

[westchesterjoe]

No, Lavin nor any Coach is likely to listen to fans posting on a website... But,if you were to poll Lavin peers in Coaching skills, game adjustments, player improvement, etc, You would likely get a lot of the same analysis that our fans are observing....The poll results would have to be anonymous since no Coach ever speaks ill of another. Usually.

Lavin's rep does not inspire fear in opposing COACHES.. i think many of them, not just the elite level ones, feel very comfortable in competing against Steve's teams and have throughout his career, at UCLA and here.

His style, if there is one, is hard to define.. And, you don't see a lot of Coaching impact on player's performance.. If you see him on the sidelines, you don't have a sense there is much going on there but, the quick hook..

For me, I began to question his in game Coaching in the NCAA game against Gonzaga a few years ago. He seemed way out of his league against Mark Few and did not have any answers to stem the tide in a lop side loss.. The Hardy team, in my opinion should have been better prepared and able to deal with what Gonzaga was doing strategically. Of course, we had no DJ Kennedy in that game but, it was more than playing one starter down

All coaches get spanked at one point or another.... What did you think about him in the 21 wins and beating quite a few ranked teams (they spanked a few, as well) that same season?

If you go by the games, in which he's coached since being at St. John's (he coached 4 games in the 2011-2012 season, and went 2-2).... He's 45-32. He was 145-78 at UCLA. That's an overall record of 190-110.

Those are facts.

Lavin's official record, not your compilation are as follows;

UCLA 145 W-78 L

SJU 56W -49 L

At UCLA he had 1 regular season championship team, while arguably having top 20 talent every year. 3 of his team's were rated top 10 but, did not reach a final 4. This is why UCLA fans are not Lavin fans.

At SJU he had 1 top 20 team, Hardy's ... Lost 1st round of NCAA to Zags.

You're excluding the Dunlap Coached TEAM with his recruits, which are counted on his record.

You can't give him credit for the Hardy team results, with Norm's players,if you don't include the results of the Dunlap squad.That's his official NCAA record for whatever reason.

 

[Moose]

The success of the team during Lavins 1st year was due to two things:

1. It was actually coached by Mike Dunlap
2. Hardy emerged as an uber clutch superstar

minus either of these two things, that team would have been in the NIT again.

So what are the excuses you have for Dunlap coaching kids with more talent the next year to such a mediocre record.

 

[MJDinkins]

No, Lavin nor any Coach is likely to listen to fans posting on a website... But,if you were to poll Lavin peers in Coaching skills, game adjustments, player improvement, etc, You would likely get a lot of the same analysis that our fans are observing....The poll results would have to be anonymous since no Coach ever speaks ill of another. Usually.

Lavin's rep does not inspire fear in opposing COACHES.. i think many of them, not just the elite level ones, feel very comfortable in competing against Steve's teams and have throughout his career, at UCLA and here.

His style, if there is one, is hard to define.. And, you don't see a lot of Coaching impact on player's performance.. If you see him on the sidelines, you don't have a sense there is much going on there but, the quick hook..

For me, I began to question his in game Coaching in the NCAA game against Gonzaga a few years ago. He seemed way out of his league against Mark Few and did not have any answers to stem the tide in a lop side loss.. The Hardy team, in my opinion should have been better prepared and able to deal with what Gonzaga was doing strategically. Of course, we had no DJ Kennedy in that game but, it was more than playing one starter down

All coaches get spanked at one point or another.... What did you think about him in the 21 wins and beating quite a few ranked teams (they spanked a few, as well) that same season?

If you go by the games, in which he's coached since being at St. John's (he coached 4 games in the 2011-2012 season, and went 2-2).... He's 45-32. He was 145-78 at UCLA. That's an overall record of 190-110.

Those are facts.

Lavin's official record, not your compilation are as follows;

UCLA 145 W-78 L

SJU 56W -49 L

At UCLA he had 1 regular season championship team, while arguably having top 20 talent every year. 3 of his team's were rated top 10 but, did not reach a final 4. This is why UCLA fans are not Lavin fans.

At SJU he had 1 top 20 team, Hardy's ... Lost 1st round of NCAA to Zags.

You're excluding the Dunlap Coached TEAM with his recruits, which are counted on his record.

You can't give him credit for the Hardy team results, with Norm's players,if you don't include the results of the Dunlap squad.That's his official NCAA record for whatever reason.

I have a good feeling if St. John's had a winning record during the season Lavin was ill, then you'd say he didn't earn that record as he wasn't the coach. The history of your posts gives me that belief.

Even, if you wanted to give him credit for the team that he didn't coach (which, I'm not crediting him), then he still has a winning record.

Tell me why I can't give him credit for the team, in which he was on the sidelines and coached the entire season? Thanks for proving my point of the moniker I gave you, yesterday. I knew you wouldn't disappoint.

The only thing you probably know about him at UCLA is the stuff that's been regurgitated. Did you watch any games? UCLA fans doesn't seem like fans of anyone unless they are going to Final Four's.

 

[Class of 72]

The success of the team during Lavins 1st year was due to two things:

1. It was actually coached by Mike Dunlap
2. Hardy emerged as an uber clutch superstar

minus either of these two things, that team would have been in the NIT again.

So what are the excuses you have for Dunlap coaching kids with more talent the next year to such a mediocre record.

Moose, ars you joking or being serious?
The year Lav was ill Mike coached a dysfunctional group of freshmen whose talent we continue to argue today.Mike did well with mature seniors. That freshman class had three nonqualifiers, a JC player with a big ego and exaggerated talent and kids that had little chemistry.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

The coaches read these views and should improve their approach to coaching accordingly.

Are you implying that Lavin and his staff reads this site (which they very well may), and that they should listen/adjust to what people say on this site?

You quoted the wrong poster! That suggestion was a "wish" and a "prayer". Lavin may not listen to his own Hall of Fame advisor for all we know! But a good CEO better listen to his customer's views of his product. If people stop buying and the seats become empty that does not bode well for the either the CEO or the company. Although just a sport played by college kids, this is a big business with a large investment and not some high school team with a free sneakers from Nike.

If you think that good CEO's should listen to what their customers have to say, then you are sorely mistaken. For starters, you are never going to be able to please everyone, so you can't keep making adjustments all of the time just because of a few upset people. Also, what are the customers qualifications to view/critique his product? I've never played football a day in my life, so if I wrote Tom Coughlin and was complaining about how I was unhappy with the Giants and offered suggestions on how I would do things differently, do you think he would listen to me?? Do you honestly think that Pepsi's CEO really cares what Joe Smith from middle of nowhere, Utah really thinks about Pepsi?

So why would/should Lavin listen to what his 'customers' have to say? His 'customers' are not at every practice, his 'customers' are not watching film, scouting, etc........How do you think this would go over in a post game interview: quote from Steve Lavin, "Well we decided to press more because the other day I was reading redmen.com and a poster named 'Class of 72' recommended it, so I decided to give it a shot." And you can use the empty seat reasoning all you want, but guess what? It is not Steve Lavin's job to improve the bottom line. It is not his job to sell seats. He does not have 'customers'. His job is to win basketball games.

I gather you are not familiar with Marketing 101. There are donors and sponsors among the basketball supporters. Mike Repole is one of them. There are sponsors like Fox1, UnderArmor, etc. There is a Red/White Club. It is not just the 2 dozen posters that enjoy discussing redmen basketball on the intawebs.
There is positive PR and negative PR. Positive PR is living up to expectations like playing well and winning more games than you should lose. Negative PR is advertising all over NYC (Times Square, Buses, Newspapers) and playing poorly and losing games, leading to poor attendance, lower revenue and bad reviews by sports writers. If Steve Lavin did not have customers he would be out of a job!
Here is a simple example that may clarify things: Doctors have patients. Those patients are considered customers. Now most of those customers did not attend medical school but in today's world patient reviews are very important to that doctor's success. Too may negative experiences, too many complaints, too many lawsuits and the doctor's practice suffers.
I have a dear friend who worked for Proctor and Gamble all over the world in quality control management. They spent millions annually in consumer research like focus groups, testing and surveys. A CEO's job depended on the bottom line and shareholder returns and customer satisfaction is the only thing that induced repeat customers. When MSG is mostly empty and SJ loses games, everyone starts to take notice. If most become dissatisfied (Repole, UU, fans, media), and other stakeholders the AD, Lavin's boss, in consultation with the Prsident, would make a decision to retain or dismiss.
The ONE positive Lavin has in that regard at the time is that SJU does not have a president but a retired Vincentian caretaker. The fact is that SJ cannot even get its academic house in order at present and a national search is under way to find a person qualified to lead our university. When that search is over, it will be interesting to see what emphasis the basketabll program is given in the new Big East. A smart president with an eye towards the bottom line will want to maximize the schools only profit making sport.

So you can buy stock in SJU basketball? Your arguments make sense in a business world, and even though it is a business, it is not the same thing. The success/failure of our basketball team cannot ultimately impact your bottom line, because you have nothing invested in it.

 

[Section3]

The success of the team during Lavins 1st year was due to two things:

1. It was actually coached by Mike Dunlap
2. Hardy emerged as an uber clutch superstar

minus either of these two things, that team would have been in the NIT again.

He may not be the best tactician but he does appear cool under fire which is a good quality for a coach...I believe he was a calming influence for Hardy when he made the great play against Pitt...again, not the best, but he does have a number of good qualities...

 

[redmanwest]

I agree with most of this, but I cant let slide a BIG misstatement (or revisionist history) stated: Jarvis was NOT a good coach, or a good guy. In fact, SJU's long slide into oblivion started with, and was the fault of Mike Jarvis. He was lazy, arrogant and a piss poor coach, on mostly every level. Whether or not he should have been fired mid-season, well, I don't know.

I know it is ancient history, but if you don't remember history, you're bound to repeat it. God forbid.

I will support Lavin until the day that he is no longer the SJU coach. Does that mean I would rather support him than see a successful program? No. I just want to know what the detractors are asking to happen. Do they just want optimistic posters to turn negative or do they want something more concrete be done by the administration? If so, when?

Simplyred, we all bleed red here and have been buying season tickets and supporting the team through multiple coaching fiascos. Brian Mahoney, although a wonderful person, was a one season phenom. The first mistake was to hire an assistant with no proven ability to coach. That was evidenced at Manhattan College. Fran Fraschilla was a great recruiter for SJU and had us on the right track. We will never know what could have been a terrific career at SJU. Mike Jarvis was a good coach and ran tight practices. Lesson learned is never ever fire a coach mid season.
Norm Roberts was a huge gamble and big mistake----see Brian Mahoney. All of those chioces I lay at the feet of a poorly run athletic administration under the Vincentians.

Steve Lavin was not a mistake. The program got a "name coach" who was very successful both in recruiting and getting to the dance. He signed some recruits that would never consider SJ and people were talking about us again. Year one was as successful as any here would have hoped. Then misfortune struck and we struggled without a coach with very young players. No problem. Last year was supposed to be a turning point. The coach was back, the team had promise and then player issues began before the Big East imploded. No Sanchez, no God's Gift and ultimately, no Harrison.
The season with a very young Obekpa alone in the middle and mediocre guard play led to a lackluster season.
Fast-forward to the summer of 2013 and we are a complete team full of promise. The only problem is the European tour left us with more questions than answers about team chemistry and potential. We beat a couple of junior colege level teams but were pasted by good competition. Hey at the least the team got to travel and get to know each other better.

None of us want to see Lavin fired even given the above scenarios but we want him to know we are not happy with the product on the court, the player issues, the slow player development and the inability to bring in a top shelf assistant.
The coaches read these views and should improve their approach to coaching accordingly. I frankly did not know coach Whitesell from a hole in the wall and the last assistant hired in L.A., another UCLA grad, is a mystery. During games Lavin consults with Rico more than Whitesell at times, Another mystery. There seems to be little synergy with the staff. That may be affecting the product. My feeling is we need a bright aggressive assistant to help right the ship, both in recruiting and practices. Hopefully we are keeping our options open. Between the fans and media Luke warm reviews our hope is the coaches and players get the message and start working harder and smarter.

 

[mjmaherjr]

People can criticize Lavin all you want for this year if we don't do well but he has to get credit for that 1st year. I don't care who ran practices or whatever I watched every time he gathered the team around during breaks during games and he wasn't sitting there playing with his thumbs.

He gets credit for that season.

 

[Section3]

The success of the team during Lavins 1st year was due to two things:

1. It was actually coached by Mike Dunlap
2. Hardy emerged as an uber clutch superstar

minus either of these two things, that team would have been in the NIT again.

I respectfully disagree with item# 1.
I had the pleasure of attending a few practices that first year. Mike basically ran the practices with an iron fist. DJ Kennedy and Justine Burrell carried "the bat" around more times than they wished to remember until they got with the program. Steve "coached" the team that entire year. He consulted with Mike on the sidelines and did not rely on discussions with Rico as he does now (to no avail ). Rico was a 1-1 player coach and had no input in game strategy regarding offenses or defenses. That seems to somehow changed and not for the better.

I notice that he seems to confer with Hines more than Whitesell...not sure if just my imagination

 

[lawmanfan]

People can criticize Lavin all you want for this year if we don't do well but he has to get credit for that 1st year. I don't care who ran practices or whatever I watched every time he gathered the team around during breaks during games and he wasn't sitting there playing with his thumbs.

He gets credit for that season.

He gets credit for giving the ball to Dwight Hardy and then not getting in the way of one of the great season-long individual efforts SJU fans have ever seen. I wouldn't give him credit for much more than that, and I'm really not willing to give him a whole lot of credit for figuring out that he had to give the ball to the only legitimate scorer on the team if he wanted to score any points (I am intentionally omitting Sean Evans here).

That team used exactly the same offensive philosophy we used last year - give the ball to your scorer and everyone else gets out of the way. It worked with a great player on a team full of seniors, plus a total of one player he added - which player promptly departed at the end of the season. I've actually lost count of the Lavin-era departures.

jarvis got no credit for winning with Fran's players (and rightly so). Lavin gets none for winning with Norm's players.

 

[mjmaherjr]

People can criticize Lavin all you want for this year if we don't do well but he has to get credit for that 1st year. I don't care who ran practices or whatever I watched every time he gathered the team around during breaks during games and he wasn't sitting there playing with his thumbs.

He gets credit for that season.

He gets credit for giving the ball to Dwight Hardy and then not getting in the way of one of the great season-long individual efforts SJU fans have ever seen. I wouldn't give him credit for much more than that, and I'm really not willing to give him a whole lot of credit for figuring out that he had to give the ball to the only legitimate scorer on the team if he wanted to score any points (I am intentionally omitting Sean Evans here).

That team used exactly the same offensive philosophy we used last year - give the ball to your scorer and everyone else gets out of the way. It worked with a great player on a team full of seniors, plus a total of one player he added - which player promptly departed at the end of the season. I've actually lost count of the Lavin-era departures.

jarvis got no credit for winning with Fran's players (and rightly so). Lavin gets none for winning with Norm's players.

There was a stretch that teams would try bringing up the ball against us and they literally wouldn't know what to do against out D

 

[Class of 72]

I agree with most of this, but I cant let slide a BIG misstatement (or revisionist history) stated: Jarvis was NOT a good coach, or a good guy. In fact, SJU's long slide into oblivion started with, and was the fault of Mike Jarvis. He was lazy, arrogant and a piss poor coach, on mostly every level.

I respect your opinion but Mike's history is in black and white for all to see. In his 13 years as a head coach prior to SJU he never had a losing season and missed post season only 3 times at BU and GW. At SJU his first two years with Fran's players was extraordinary. Even after the 2000-01 14-15 season ( where he was 8-8 in tough Big East comletition) he won 20+ games his next two seasons and went to post season tourneys. In 2003 he won the NIT but had a falling out over a number of things. Deflated, he stopped recruiting and by his last season when he was fired pre-Big East season, he was no longer on speaking terms with the AD. I think if Steve Lavin's first 5 year record looks like Jarvis many here would be tickled pink (or red).

1998–1999 St. John's 28–9 14–4 3rd NCAA Elite 8
1999–2000 St. John's 25–8 12–4 3rd NCAA 2nd Round
2000–2001 St. John's 14–15** 8–8** T–3rd–East
2001–2002 St. John's 20–12** 9–7** 3rd–East NCAA 1st Round**
2002–2003 St. John's 21–13** 7–9** 5th–East NIT Championship**

 

[mjmaherjr]

I agree with most of this, but I cant let slide a BIG misstatement (or revisionist history) stated: Jarvis was NOT a good coach, or a good guy. In fact, SJU's long slide into oblivion started with, and was the fault of Mike Jarvis. He was lazy, arrogant and a piss poor coach, on mostly every level.

I respect your opinion but Mike's history is in black and white for all to see. In his 13 years as a head coach prior to SJU he never had a losing season and missed post season only 3 times at BU and GW. At SJU his first two years with Fran's players was extraordinary. Even after the 2000-01 14-15 season ( where he was 8-8 in tough Big East comletition) he won 20+ games his next two seasons and went to post season tourneys. In 2003 he won the NIT but had a falling out over a number of things. Deflated, he stopped recruiting and by his last season when he was fired pre-Big East season, he was no longer on speaking terms with the AD. I think if Steve Lavin's first 5 year record looks like Jarvis many here would be tickled pink (or red).

1998–1999 St. John's 28–9 14–4 3rd NCAA Elite 8
1999–2000 St. John's 25–8 12–4 3rd NCAA 2nd Round
2000–2001 St. John's 14–15** 8–8** T–3rd–East
2001–2002 St. John's 20–12** 9–7** 3rd–East NCAA 1st Round**
2002–2003 St. John's 21–13** 7–9** 5th–East NIT Championship**

But those last 2 seasons the team pretty much sucked other than Hatten. I remember actually being pissed off the day after the NIT because it was so obvious we would be horrible without Hatten

 

[lawmanfan]

People can criticize Lavin all you want for this year if we don't do well but he has to get credit for that 1st year. I don't care who ran practices or whatever I watched every time he gathered the team around during breaks during games and he wasn't sitting there playing with his thumbs.

He gets credit for that season.

He gets credit for giving the ball to Dwight Hardy and then not getting in the way of one of the great season-long individual efforts SJU fans have ever seen. I wouldn't give him credit for much more than that, and I'm really not willing to give him a whole lot of credit for figuring out that he had to give the ball to the only legitimate scorer on the team if he wanted to score any points (I am intentionally omitting Sean Evans here).

That team used exactly the same offensive philosophy we used last year - give the ball to your scorer and everyone else gets out of the way. It worked with a great player on a team full of seniors, plus a total of one player he added - which player promptly departed at the end of the season. I've actually lost count of the Lavin-era departures.

jarvis got no credit for winning with Fran's players (and rightly so). Lavin gets none for winning with Norm's players.

There was a stretch that teams would try bringing up the ball against us and they literally wouldn't know what to do against out D

Yes, Norm did nothing but coach D. He never seemed to understand that you actually need to score points to win, that you can't defend the other team into negative points. So Lavin inherited a group that had a ton of experience playing defense since that was all anybody had cared about for the first 3 years of their college careers.

How's our D been since?

 

[Class of 72]

I agree with most of this, but I cant let slide a BIG misstatement (or revisionist history) stated: Jarvis was NOT a good coach, or a good guy. In fact, SJU's long slide into oblivion started with, and was the fault of Mike Jarvis. He was lazy, arrogant and a piss poor coach, on mostly every level.

I respect your opinion but Mike's history is in black and white for all to see. In his 13 years as a head coach prior to SJU he never had a losing season and missed post season only 3 times at BU and GW. At SJU his first two years with Fran's players was extraordinary. Even after the 2000-01 14-15 season ( where he was 8-8 in tough Big East comletition) he won 20+ games his next two seasons and went to post season tourneys. In 2003 he won the NIT but had a falling out over a number of things. Deflated, he stopped recruiting and by his last season when he was fired pre-Big East season, he was no longer on speaking terms with the AD. I think if Steve Lavin's first 5 year record looks like Jarvis many here would be tickled pink (or red).

1998–1999 St. John's 28–9 14–4 3rd NCAA Elite 8
1999–2000 St. John's 25–8 12–4 3rd NCAA 2nd Round
2000–2001 St. John's 14–15** 8–8** T–3rd–East
2001–2002 St. John's 20–12** 9–7** 3rd–East NCAA 1st Round**
2002–2003 St. John's 21–13** 7–9** 5th–East NIT Championship**

But those last 2 seasons the team pretty much sucked other than Hatten. I remember actually being pissed off the day after the NIT because it was so obvious we would be horrible without Hatten

Maher, I would hate to see your review of last year's team! LOL!
His last two seasons were the typical St. John's seasons since Louie retired. That is a long time of sucking if winning 20 wins in a season is sucking. Did you expect more wins with the Jarvis players?? Yes, one player carried the team but it was his player without top 100 talent. With the talent this year winning more than 21 games may be a challenge.

 

[MJDinkins]

People can criticize Lavin all you want for this year if we don't do well but he has to get credit for that 1st year. I don't care who ran practices or whatever I watched every time he gathered the team around during breaks during games and he wasn't sitting there playing with his thumbs.

He gets credit for that season.

He gets credit for giving the ball to Dwight Hardy and then not getting in the way of one of the great season-long individual efforts SJU fans have ever seen. I wouldn't give him credit for much more than that, and I'm really not willing to give him a whole lot of credit for figuring out that he had to give the ball to the only legitimate scorer on the team if he wanted to score any points (I am intentionally omitting Sean Evans here).

That team used exactly the same offensive philosophy we used last year - give the ball to your scorer and everyone else gets out of the way. It worked with a great player on a team full of seniors, plus a total of one player he added - which player promptly departed at the end of the season. I've actually lost count of the Lavin-era departures.

jarvis got no credit for winning with Fran's players (and rightly so). Lavin gets none for winning with Norm's players.

There was a stretch that teams would try bringing up the ball against us and they literally wouldn't know what to do against out D

Yes, Norm did nothing but coach D. He never seemed to understand that you actually need to score points to win, that you can't defend the other team into negative points. So Lavin inherited a group that had a ton of experience playing defense since that was all anybody had cared about for the first 3 years of their college careers.

How's our D been since?

2007-2008 - Kennedy, Burrell, Horne, Booth, Coker, and Evans were all freshmen -- Defensive FG% - 44.1
2008-2009 - 44.6%
2009-2010 - 42.8% (Norm's last season)

2010-2011 - Kennedy, Burrell, Horne, Booth, Evans, Hardy, Brownlee, and Coker were all seniors.... Lavin's first season -- Defensive FG% - 43.4%
2011-2012 - All freshmen with the exception of Gift, Stith and Lindsey (the latter two left during the season).... Lavin also only coached 4 games -- 44%
2012-2013 - 40.1%
2013-2014 - After 6 games (I'm sure it'll change) -- 39%

So, much for your theory. Poppycock!