(@Bar) VCU, Tue. Nov. 20, 7:30p, ESPN-2 / 970 WNYM

[quote="SJU85" post=304005][quote="MSP710" post=303993]Here's the takeaway from these two games: Mullin cannot coach. He doesn't make any adjustments during the game. It's incredible. He's just going to go with his NBA style offense and hope that it all works out. Richmond is a complete waste. Does nothing.

I'm sure none of this is lost on the new AD.[/quote]

There were adjustments in both games. We went to that moderate zone press a few times Monday which slowed down Cal and bothered VCU. We also went to a zone a few times both games which totally throw off Calmwhem they first saw it. We also started flashing Ponds in the high post against the zone against VCU and he hit back to back jumpers and we were more effective.[/quote]

The game was and this offense is awful to watch most of the time but I too liked that Ponds in the high post look. I like anyone in the high post look if they can catch and make a pass but especially someone with Shamori's talent. And from the high post he made a good, sharing decision or two.
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=304024]I would have thought people would be happy, as Williams got burn. People have been clamoring for that. I thought he looked solid.[/quote]

Thanks, I needed a good chuckle today. :lol:
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=304083][quote="ctstorm" post=303973]I will admit that I know less than 99% of the posters here, but here is my take. I really don't like that Ponds took more shots than Heron and LJ combined, but I want the ball in his hands in the last 2 minutes of any close game. He is an assassin.[/quote]

Take away Slick's heroics at the end of the game and he did not do his job as the point guard and impressed no NBA coaches last night. This is his final season and his only shot at the NBA is proving he can distribute the ball. He completely disregarded talented and frustrated teammates Heron and Figueroa. That he took shots without ever passing the ball to another St. John's player on a half dozen possessions was a very very bad visual for scouts. I love Shamorie and have watched him since high school but his tendency to go 1 on 1 has not been controlled by this staff. Of course since we play such an unstructured offense and no 3 point defense he will always get his points. He needs to be more of a team player like in the Rutgers game.[/quote]

Last year we needed him to score big for us to have a shot at winning, especially after LoVett split. This year we don’t. It’s no coincidence that in our best game so far this year, everyone was involved.
 
Glad to get out of there with the win. The 5-0 start is nothing to sneeze at. There are plenty of quality teams that get tripped up by lesser opponents early in their schedule.

Ponds is a special talent. He can score the ball with the best and he is clearly our best option late in the game (especially when our opponent has no fouls to give, since he is money from the stripe).

That said, if we're going to be successful this year, I agree that our offense cannot be the "Ponds Show". There is a reason why Carmelo Anthony (also a special scorer) never experienced team success. Currently, our team is too talented to be standing around watching one guy. Last night was frustrating to watch and it does concern me that Mullin did not order an adjustment.
 
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[quote="we are sju" post=304074]This is the worst fan base ever. Yes some things need to be addressed but at end of day no coach alive or dead would have a better record at this point.
And getting on Ponds after last 2 games is down right stupid. I agree would like LJ to get more shots but Marvin Clark shot 2 for 19 or something and Heron also had a bad game. If Ponds would have shot less we would have lost. But I am starting to think that is what some of you want.[/quote]

Exactly. So, for sake of argument, let's say that Ponds is option #1, Heron #2, Figueroa and Clark are 3 A/B and Simon #5. That's based on my observations and shots taken. When 2-3 are on, Ponds gets them the ball, see Rut.
When they're off, see Bar., Ponds plays hero ball. Sure LJ should've gotten the ball more often but that'll come with time.

Last night Heron was in a funk for most of the game and Clark has an aversion to playing well in Brooklyn. Shamorie takes over and basically wins the tournament and were down on him? Did he take too many shots, some of them early in the run of play? Of course, but in the end, he willed and shot us to two wins.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=304074]This is the worst fan base ever. Yes some things need to be addressed but at end of day no coach alive or dead would have a better record at this point.
.[/quote]

And another good laugh. Just win baby. I may not like what I'm seeing but I'm liking the results so let's go with it for now, since it's what we're likely to get for the foreseeable future anyway..
 
[quote="we are sju" post=304086][quote="Class of 72" post=304083][quote="ctstorm" post=303973]I will admit that I know less than 99% of the posters here, but here is my take. I really don't like that Ponds took more shots than Heron and LJ combined, but I want the ball in his hands in the last 2 minutes of any close game. He is an assassin.[/quote]

Take away Slick's heroics at the end of the game and he did not do his job as the point guard and impressed no NBA coaches last night. This is his final season and his only shot at the NBA is proving he can distribute the ball. He completely disregarded talented and frustrated teammates Heron and Figueroa. That he took shots without ever passing the ball to another St. John's player on a half dozen possessions was a very very bad visual for scouts. I love Shamorie and have watched him since high school but his tendency to go 1 on 1 has not been controlled by this staff. Of course since we play such an unstructured offense and no 3 point defense he will always get his points. He needs to be more of a team player like in the Rutgers game.[/quote]

Yeah I wish he would have gotten Clark and Heron a few more attempts at misses. If he would have scored 21 and we would have lost by 12 he probably would be a lottery pick[/quote]. I don’t think what is being said is meant to detract from the fact that , once again , in the Clutch , Ponds Won the game for the Redmen. Absolutely he did ! But, the consensus seems to be that neither Heron or Figuroa were much involved in the offensive flow of the game throughout . I agree Clark took way too many 3’s and nerds to be reeled in a bit . Heron never got a call from the Refs while being mugged on Flatbush Avenue . It seemed to get him upset . Figgy was missed a few times when he had the best chance to score . Dixon played very well . He is small though , even smaller than Ponds . So , the ideas expressed about Ponds being more the QB have validity .
 
[quote="austour" post=304094][quote="we are sju" post=304074]This is the worst fan base ever. Yes some things need to be addressed but at end of day no coach alive or dead would have a better record at this point.
.[/quote]

And another good laugh. Just win baby. I may not like what I'm seeing but I'm liking the results so let's go with it for now, since it's what we're likely to get for the foreseeable future anyway..[/quote]

Since we are not playing a great schedule the fact that we are struggling and still winning close games will only help us. There is no Duke in the BE this season. We will be in every game. We are getting great experience in playing close games. And in close games give me Ponds over any other player in the BE
 
So I only read the last 5 pages of posts but I take it some were not impressed that Shamorie didn't bother to look to pass at all at least 33% of the time. I get it, it was ugly and frustrated me too. Hopefully as they continue to play together they'll find another response to adversity other than everyone looking to play hero ball. At least it worked. Not sure if it would work against really good tournament teams but how many of them are STJ going to face this year anyway given the early BE results.

I will say that the folks who watched the 5 wins and think this team can compete with Duke are smoking crack, though.

Only question I have, which I assume was addressed, was, yes Trimple was unimpressive but did he even play in the 2nd half or OT? Was it a benching or did I miss an injury?
 
Remember this post.
We are going to bump along winning games by less than people would like and we are going to lose a game before BE as well. We are then going to take off in BE and in fact going to blast a bunch of teams.
 
Daily Dose of Hoops:


Ponds steals show again, scores 35 as St. John's upends VCU in overtime

Shamorie Ponds' go-ahead layup lifted St. John's past VCU to 5-0 start and Legends Classic championship.

NEW YORK -- I'm so darn glad He let me try it again
'Cause my last time on earth, I lived a whole world of sin
I'm so glad that I know more than I knew then
Gonna keep on tryin', 'til I reach my highest ground
- Stevie Wonder, "Higher Ground"

Shamorie Ponds had flashbacks coming down to the final ten seconds of Tuesday night's Legends Classic championship game against VCU, flashbacks to a similar situation he encountered in high school.

Back then, the St. John's superstar -- before the dream of donning the red and white and playing college basketball in his own backyard became reality -- was merely an up-and-comer at a perennially strong Thomas Jefferson High School program, and experienced the bitter, agonizing heartbreak of losing a PSAL championship game at the buzzer to Cardozo as a sophomore in 2014 on the same Barclays Center floor to which he returned the past two nights. To a lesser extent, Ponds may also have seen visions of a game in his freshman season at St. John's late Tuesday evening, when he missed a potential game-winning shot as the Red Storm suffered a shocking loss to LIU Brooklyn, also inside the same venue.

But as Friedrich Nietzsche so prophetically stated, that which does not kill makes you stronger. And not only was Ponds more mentally and physically equipped to handle adversity this time around, he righted the wrong in the form of a go-ahead layup that held up on the scoreboard as St. John's defeated VCU in overtime, 87-86, surviving after Marcus Evans' three-point attempt for the win fell short amid contested defense by the Brooklyn native, who may or may not have fouled Evans as his backcourt counterpart squared up for the shot.

"Coming down to the last shot, I kind of had replayed it in my head, how we lost in the Barclays," Ponds said of his thought process seconds before amassing the final two of his 35 points, an emphatic encore to a 32-point showing Monday against Cal, as the Red Storm secured its first in-season tournament championship since 2010 and raised its season record to 5-0 in the process. "I just wasn't trying to go out like that."

What Ponds was doing -- superhuman or merely playing really good basketball at the most opportune of times -- was setting a Legends Classic record with 67 points scored in the two-day event, obliterating the previous mark of 52 set by Texas' A.J. Abrams in 2007. And it wasn't only being done on the offensive end, either, as Ponds registered seven assists and seven steals while having to earn every last drop of his payoff against a scrappy VCU defense that lived up to its mantra of havoc.

"It was incredible," LJ Figueroa said of having a ringside seat to Ponds' heroics, contributing 15 points and nine rebounds in his own right. "Shamorie's the best player I've ever played with before. It was incredible just to watch him (for) myself. It just felt unreal."

"He makes those shots," Chris Mullin added. "Shamorie has a gift, and he's got an incredible touch. He's got a gift of scoring and having a feel and instinct for the game that few have. It was an incredible, tough shot, and he made a few in the second half which are probably shots only he can make. He put on a show."

The shots were not falling in the first half, and even early in the second stanza as well, as VCU (4-1) attempted to lure St. John's into its meat-grinder mentality on defense, while simultaneously living behind the three-point line. The Rams missed nine of the first eleven shots that were attempted, yet had shot well over 40 percent from distance for most of the night before the Red Storm was finally able to ramp up the tempo and turn the game into an atmosphere more to its liking against an opponent who had not surrendered more than 61 points in any contest on the young season. It was the lackluster beginning, coupled with a mutual willingness to admit the collective whole has not hit its best stride yet, that prompted a realistic, yet optimistic, look from the parties involved.

"I think we definitely need to go back to the drawing board," said Ponds. "We definitely need to go back to defending and boxing out, getting rebounds."

"This being my first season here, we're still getting to know each other," Figueroa surmised. "We're still learning what we can do on the court, our weaknesses and our strengths. It's just coming together game-by-game. We're gonna get it together."

"We could play better," Mullin echoed. "I think we will get better. What I have liked is we've played through some shaky minutes where we've struggled. I don't see anyone giving up. I think we've had different guys take over on certain nights, and as we get more familiar, you'll see a little more consistent flow to our game."

The we-have-Shamorie-Ponds-and-you-don't mindset that St. John's fans may be jubilantly sharing throughout the metropolitan area -- and deservedly so -- may be on full display, but behind every great player is an equally strong supporting cast. And only 24 hours removed from both players and coach highlighting the multitude of options in the Red Storm arsenal, each of the six primary options in the chamber responded with at least eight points, vindicating the tremendous belief in the ancillary pieces with Figueroa leading the charge in that department.

"He's been a little better than I thought," Mullin said of the 6-foot-6 junior college transfer, who has emerged as a legitimate X-factor at the four position due to his unique knack for spacing the floor and serving as a capable second or third option. "He's got a gift, too. He's got a really good feel for the game. He's good in small spaces, so he's comfortable if the shot clock gets down or he gets out in the open floor. He's scored the ball at an efficient rate and he's rebounding, and when you play small, that's what you have to do. He's been really good."

"It's a tough lineup to prepare for, because you don't really know who's gonna get going. If someone is struggling, we have another guy or two that can pick it up. To our credit, we were in some tough situations the last two nights. Shamorie picked up that technical foul (with 3:44 remaining in regulation) and we could have went down six. We fought back, didn't hang our heads, and that's really where the experience comes in. They truly believed they can win the game. I don't think that was the fact the last two years."

The ultimate test of a leader is that which he leaves behind in all his men, the courage and will to carry on. And so it goes for Ponds, who -- even after consecutive 30-point games to garner what will likely be yet another Big East Player of the Week award -- has instilled a culture among he and his teammates that settling for minor accomplishments is nowhere near acceptable.

"It's a step that we never took," he said of the program's first early-season event crown since the Red Storm captured the Great Alaska Shootout in Steve Lavin's first season at the helm. "Getting off to a 5-0 start, winning a tournament, it's great for us. We just can't stop here, though. We're not satisfied."
 
[quote="we are sju" post=304097][quote="austour" post=304094][quote="we are sju" post=304074]This is the worst fan base ever. Yes some things need to be addressed but at end of day no coach alive or dead would have a better record at this point.
.[/quote]

And another good laugh. Just win baby. I may not like what I'm seeing but I'm liking the results so let's go with it for now, since it's what we're likely to get for the foreseeable future anyway..[/quote]

Since we are not playing a great schedule the fact that we are struggling and still winning close games will only help us. There is no Duke in the BE this season. We will be in every game. We are getting great experience in playing close games. And in close games give me Ponds over any other player in the BE[/quote]

You're missing the point. We all love Shamorie and want him to do well and get drafted. The point is none of these games should have been close. We survived a game we were favored by 19 points. Cal and VCU should have been a tuneup for Georgia Tech. The question should be "why are we struggling".
 
[quote="austour" post=304098]So I only read the last 5 pages of posts but I take it some were not impressed that Shamorie didn't bother to look to pass at all at least 33% of the time. I get it, it was ugly and frustrated me too. Hopefully as they continue to play together they'll find another response to adversity other than everyone looking to play hero ball. At least it worked. Not sure if it would work against really good tournament teams but how many of them are STJ going to face this year anyway given the early BE results.

I will say that the folks who watched the 5 wins and think this team can compete with Duke are smoking crack, though.

Only question I have, which I assume was addressed, was, yes Trimple was unimpressive but did he even play in the 2nd half or OT? Was it a benching or did I miss an injury?[/quote]

Trimble was getting therapy on his knee before the game. He played during the game but looked like he was favoring it. Someone told me he was noticeably limping after the game. Take it for what its worth. I think this team needs the days off.
 
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[quote="OLV72" post=304121][quote="austour" post=304098]So I only read the last 5 pages of posts but I take it some were not impressed that Shamorie didn't bother to look to pass at all at least 33% of the time. I get it, it was ugly and frustrated me too. Hopefully as they continue to play together they'll find another response to adversity other than everyone looking to play hero ball. At least it worked. Not sure if it would work against really good tournament teams but how many of them are STJ going to face this year anyway given the early BE results.

I will say that the folks who watched the 5 wins and think this team can compete with Duke are smoking crack, though.

Only question I have, which I assume was addressed, was, yes Trimple was unimpressive but did he even play in the 2nd half or OT? Was it a benching or did I miss an injury?[/quote]

Trimble was getting therapy on his knee before the game. He played during the game but looked like he was favoring it. Someone told me he was noticeably limping after the game. Take it for what its worth. I think this team needs the days off.[/quote] school just ordered more bicycles
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=304123][quote="OLV72" post=304121][quote="austour" post=304098]So I only read the last 5 pages of posts but I take it some were not impressed that Shamorie didn't bother to look to pass at all at least 33% of the time. I get it, it was ugly and frustrated me too. Hopefully as they continue to play together they'll find another response to adversity other than everyone looking to play hero ball. At least it worked. Not sure if it would work against really good tournament teams but how many of them are STJ going to face this year anyway given the early BE results.

I will say that the folks who watched the 5 wins and think this team can compete with Duke are smoking crack, though.

Only question I have, which I assume was addressed, was, yes Trimple was unimpressive but did he even play in the 2nd half or OT? Was it a benching or did I miss an injury?[/quote]

Trimble was getting therapy on his knee before the game. He played during the game but looked like he was favoring it. Someone told me he was noticeably limping after the game. Take it for what its worth. I think this team needs the days off.[/quote] school just ordered more bicycles[/quote]

And more cow bells on the freshmen.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=304117][quote="we are sju" post=304097][quote="austour" post=304094][quote="we are sju" post=304074]This is the worst fan base ever. Yes some things need to be addressed but at end of day no coach alive or dead would have a better record at this point.
.[/quote]

And another good laugh. Just win baby. I may not like what I'm seeing but I'm liking the results so let's go with it for now, since it's what we're likely to get for the foreseeable future anyway..[/quote]

Since we are not playing a great schedule the fact that we are struggling and still winning close games will only help us. There is no Duke in the BE this season. We will be in every game. We are getting great experience in playing close games. And in close games give me Ponds over any other player in the BE[/quote]

You're missing the point. We all love Shamorie and want him to do well and get drafted. The point is none of these games should have been close. We survived a game we were favored by 19 points. Cal and VCU should have been a tuneup for Georgia Tech. The question should be "why are we struggling".[/quote]


Perimeter defense has sucked for 2 years. Guys simply have to put forth a better effort.
Last night Heron had a bad game and Clark is not playing well and shooting too much.
Again struggling now going to help us later.
 
[quote="OLV72" post=304121][quote="austour" post=304098]So I only read the last 5 pages of posts but I take it some were not impressed that Shamorie didn't bother to look to pass at all at least 33% of the time. I get it, it was ugly and frustrated me too. Hopefully as they continue to play together they'll find another response to adversity other than everyone looking to play hero ball. At least it worked. Not sure if it would work against really good tournament teams but how many of them are STJ going to face this year anyway given the early BE results.

I will say that the folks who watched the 5 wins and think this team can compete with Duke are smoking crack, though.

Only question I have, which I assume was addressed, was, yes Trimple was unimpressive but did he even play in the 2nd half or OT? Was it a benching or did I miss an injury?[/quote]

Trimble was getting therapy on his knee before the game. He played during the game but looked like he was favoring it. Someone told me he was noticeably limping after the game. Take it for what its worth. I think this team needs the days off.[/quote]

That might explain his slow start with finding his shot. Jump shots start with you legs and getting that lift. Maybe his knee is hindering his ability a little.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=304096][quote="we are sju" post=304086][quote="Class of 72" post=304083][quote="ctstorm" post=303973]I will admit that I know less than 99% of the posters here, but here is my take. I really don't like that Ponds took more shots than Heron and LJ combined, but I want the ball in his hands in the last 2 minutes of any close game. He is an assassin.[/quote]

Take away Slick's heroics at the end of the game and he did not do his job as the point guard and impressed no NBA coaches last night. This is his final season and his only shot at the NBA is proving he can distribute the ball. He completely disregarded talented and frustrated teammates Heron and Figueroa. That he took shots without ever passing the ball to another St. John's player on a half dozen possessions was a very very bad visual for scouts. I love Shamorie and have watched him since high school but his tendency to go 1 on 1 has not been controlled by this staff. Of course since we play such an unstructured offense and no 3 point defense he will always get his points. He needs to be more of a team player like in the Rutgers game.[/quote]

Yeah I wish he would have gotten Clark and Heron a few more attempts at misses. If he would have scored 21 and we would have lost by 12 he probably would be a lottery pick[/quote]. I don’t think what is being said is meant to detract from the fact that , once again , in the Clutch , Ponds Won the game for the Redmen. Absolutely he did ! But, the consensus seems to be that neither Heron or Figuroa were much involved in the offensive flow of the game throughout . I agree Clark took way too many 3’s and nerds to be reeled in a bit . Heron never got a call from the Refs while being mugged on Flatbush Avenue . It seemed to get him upset . Figgy was missed a few times when he had the best chance to score . Dixon played very well . He is small though , even smaller than Ponds . So , the ideas expressed about Ponds being more the QB have validity .[/quote]


Talking about Figgy getting missed with chances to score. With a 2 on 1 fast break did anyone notice the look he gave Simon after his bullet pass flew by him?
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=304117][quote="we are sju" post=304097][quote="austour" post=304094][quote="we are sju" post=304074]This is the worst fan base ever. Yes some things need to be addressed but at end of day no coach alive or dead would have a better record at this point.
.[/quote]

And another good laugh. Just win baby. I may not like what I'm seeing but I'm liking the results so let's go with it for now, since it's what we're likely to get for the foreseeable future anyway..[/quote]

Since we are not playing a great schedule the fact that we are struggling and still winning close games will only help us. There is no Duke in the BE this season. We will be in every game. We are getting great experience in playing close games. And in close games give me Ponds over any other player in the BE[/quote]

You're missing the point. We all love Shamorie and want him to do well and get drafted. The point is none of these games should have been close. We survived a game we were favored by 19 points. Cal and VCU should have been a tuneup for Georgia Tech. The question should be "why are we struggling".[/quote]
Forget it man the "intellectual" guys on here who think they are impressive by using big words on a basketball forum are never going to understand. To them no one likes to win and everything besides polishing the team off is a complaint. I will admit that a lot of guys complain too damn much (recruiting), which you do sometimes 72. But if you watched this VCU game and you can't see that they (mostly Ponds) made this game much harder than it had to be than you dont know sh*t about ball. Stop whining about what guys post about St. Johns on a St. Johns forum of all places. Everyone should be allowed to say how they feel about the team, enough with the sensitive crap its annoying. Also stop making intervention threads lol everybody apoligizing for being mean, its sports grow a pair, sounds like my wife and her friends on here sometimes.
 
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