Back to the Drawing Board.......

:angry:

[quote="Paultzman" post=333675][quote="kred" post=333643][quote="RedmanMike" post=333622]This new i
Sense in two weeks or so the roster fallout beyond the obvious, Ponds, will prove challenging and merit filling more spots than what is being forecasted by some posters. I am not suggesting disaster, but penciling in starters, etc is premature imo.[/quote]
 
After catching up up this afternoon on Redmen.com, figured i would start a new topic as it seems between players and coaches this will be a very busy thread in the coming weeks, im sorry to say. Below is my best guess at this. I am really getting tired of this revolving door.Its just fing crazy and sad to follow this program.
1) Matt A
2) Ponds
3) Clark
4) Heron
5) Simon
6)Trimble
7) possibly a few more.
 
I share your sentiments Tommy O and sometimes go off the grid myself, lol.
We’re diehards though and got to hang in there, despite the unending drama with the program.
Here’s hoping that a capable AD and an energized ‘new’ coaching staff will rise to the challenges this off-season to replenish the roster, whatever the mix of departures are.
Sometimes, additions fit better with a team than subtractions.
We shall see.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=333691]3. Where does Chris Mullin stand?
Mullin has two seasons left on his original contract and said Wednesday that he plans to return. Many schools have traditionally extended coaches in his position so high school recruits feel security. Athletic director Mike Cragg said, “I don’t think it’s necessary in this era with the college culture so fluid,” but he added that he and Mullin will evaluate what the program needs in the coming days.

Full article & some other questions

[URL]https://www.newsday.com/sports/college/st-johns/st-john-s-postmortems-1.28786038[/URL][/quote]

Lol. This is probably the nicest way to say he’s on the hot seat.
 
[quote="Tommy O 54" post=333988]After catching up up this afternoon on Redmen.com, figured i would start a new topic as it seems between players and coaches this will be a very busy thread in the coming weeks, im sorry to say. Below is my best guess at this. I am really getting tired of this revolving door.Its just fing crazy and sad to follow this program.
1) Matt A
2) Ponds
3) Clark
4) Heron
5) Simon
6)Trimble
7) possibly a few more.[/quote]

If all those players were to leave and we no longer have Matt to replace them.......we would be at square one and might as well ask Mullin to consider resigning.
 
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[quote="Moose" post=333601][quote="capmaker" post=333585]https://nypost.com/2019/03/21/st-johns-invite-to-ncaa-tourney-raises-question-of-bowing-to-tv/[/quote]

Someone might want to try and disagree with me and good luck.
But Phil Muschnick is the most miserable human being alive.[/quote]
Always has been
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=333675][quote="kred" post=333643][quote="RedmanMike" post=333622]This new incarnation of the Big East is set up for St. John's to be in the top tier of the league. There is NO reason why we shouldn't be a top three Big East team on a regular basis. (The same goes for Georgetown as well, BTW.) That is the goal.

If our goal was to go 21-12 or so and be a middle of the pack Big East team and sweat our way into the Dance, then we should have kept Lavin. Those were the teams he put on the floor. Lavin's teams weren't bad - in fact, they had some real talent - but I never felt like Lavin would ever put a team on the floor that would win 25-27 games and be a threat to win the Big East and make a real run in the Dance.

We hired Mullin because we wanted better than that - we took a chance that he was the guy to get us to a new level. He still may do that, although a candid assessment so far might indicate otherwise.

I don't think I'm a Mullin lover or hater. I am 52, and my high school years overlapped with Mullin's career at St. John's - so I'm one of those guys who loved Mullin and the Johnnies when I was playing HS basketball on Long Island. They were the kings of the city in those days, and going to see a St. John's game was a huge deal to me.

I also don't think we will necessarily be bad next year. I remember that after Jarvis' third season (which was a losing season, BTW), Omar Cook left for the NBA. I thought we were going to be just God awful. Yet Marcus Hatten showed up from Tallahasse JUCO, and he was better than any of us ever imagined. He had the best two-year career of anyone in St. John's history not named Walter Berry. We made the NCAAs with him the next year, in what was unquestionably Jarvis' best coaching job.

So maybe Cam Mack is the real deal. (He's rated as highly as any JUCO we've ever had that's also not named Walter Berry.) What if we see this? - Mack is a legit BE caliber PG, Heron stays, is the focal point of the offense and has an All-BE level season, Figueroa plays his usual good all-around game, Williams takes a step forward, and Steere gives us a genuine inside presence and toughness. That scenario is as likely IMHO as the doomsday scenario many are painting for next year.

Is that a team that is going to win 25 games and make a run at the Big East title? No. But it could be a team that is a pleasant surprise and that is in the mix for 20 or so wins and a possible ticket to the Dance.

Is that where I want to be year after year? No. But its also probably not a team that gets a coach fired either.[/quote]

Too many ifs. Look at G'Town. With their superstar ( no experience, HOF ) coach they put together the best newcomers in the league which amounted to 3 new starters, several good rotational players, and a recruiting class including the transfer 7'2" center . And apparently they are in good with several big recruits. That's how you build a program, while we're trying to keep the Titanic afloat.[/quote]
Sense in two weeks or so the roster fallout beyond the obvious, Ponds, will prove challenging and merit filling more spots than what is being forecasted by some posters. I am not suggesting disaster, but penciling in starters, etc is premature imo.[/quote]
Paultz...starting to detest your senses,,,:)
 
[quote="Section3" post=334039][quote="Paultzman" post=333675][quote="kred" post=333643][quote="RedmanMike" post=333622]This new incarnation of the Big East is set up for St. John's to be in the top tier of the league. There is NO reason why we shouldn't be a top three Big East team on a regular basis. (The same goes for Georgetown as well, BTW.) That is the goal.

If our goal was to go 21-12 or so and be a middle of the pack Big East team and sweat our way into the Dance, then we should have kept Lavin. Those were the teams he put on the floor. Lavin's teams weren't bad - in fact, they had some real talent - but I never felt like Lavin would ever put a team on the floor that would win 25-27 games and be a threat to win the Big East and make a real run in the Dance.

We hired Mullin because we wanted better than that - we took a chance that he was the guy to get us to a new level. He still may do that, although a candid assessment so far might indicate otherwise.

I don't think I'm a Mullin lover or hater. I am 52, and my high school years overlapped with Mullin's career at St. John's - so I'm one of those guys who loved Mullin and the Johnnies when I was playing HS basketball on Long Island. They were the kings of the city in those days, and going to see a St. John's game was a huge deal to me.

I also don't think we will necessarily be bad next year. I remember that after Jarvis' third season (which was a losing season, BTW), Omar Cook left for the NBA. I thought we were going to be just God awful. Yet Marcus Hatten showed up from Tallahasse JUCO, and he was better than any of us ever imagined. He had the best two-year career of anyone in St. John's history not named Walter Berry. We made the NCAAs with him the next year, in what was unquestionably Jarvis' best coaching job.

So maybe Cam Mack is the real deal. (He's rated as highly as any JUCO we've ever had that's also not named Walter Berry.) What if we see this? - Mack is a legit BE caliber PG, Heron stays, is the focal point of the offense and has an All-BE level season, Figueroa plays his usual good all-around game, Williams takes a step forward, and Steere gives us a genuine inside presence and toughness. That scenario is as likely IMHO as the doomsday scenario many are painting for next year.

Is that a team that is going to win 25 games and make a run at the Big East title? No. But it could be a team that is a pleasant surprise and that is in the mix for 20 or so wins and a possible ticket to the Dance.

Is that where I want to be year after year? No. But its also probably not a team that gets a coach fired either.[/quote]

Too many ifs. Look at G'Town. With their superstar ( no experience, HOF ) coach they put together the best newcomers in the league which amounted to 3 new starters, several good rotational players, and a recruiting class including the transfer 7'2" center . And apparently they are in good with several big recruits. That's how you build a program, while we're trying to keep the Titanic afloat.[/quote]
Sense in two weeks or so the roster fallout beyond the obvious, Ponds, will prove challenging and merit filling more spots than what is being forecasted by some posters. I am not suggesting disaster, but penciling in starters, etc is premature imo.[/quote]
Paultz...starting to detest your senses,,,:)[/quote]
My wife agrees.
 
If we end up having a starting five of : Mack, Heron, Wright, Figueroa and Steere, that’s not bad. With a bench of Williams, Roberts and Manual, not bad either assuming growth from Williams and Roberts. If the staff can add a couple of grad transfers , one guard and one combo forward we can still have a good team.
 
you would be correct but it sounds like there will be a mass exodus again which could really set us back to almost Mully's first year which is frightening!.
 
[quote="Tommy O 54" post=334043]you would be correct but it sounds like there will be a mass exodus again which could really set us back to almost Mully's first year which is frightening!.[/quote]

I expecting that Ponds, Clark , Simon , Trimble and Keita will not be here next year. To me Heron and Figgy are key. Caraher , Steere and Wright aren’t going anywhere.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=334042]If we end up having a starting five of : Mack, Heron, Wright, Figueroa and Steere, that’s not bad. With a bench of Williams, Roberts and Manual, not bad either assuming growth from Williams and Roberts. If the staff can add a couple of grad transfers , one guard and one combo forward we can still have a good team.[/quote]
But if Ponds and Simon were to stay, and Mack and Wright turn out to be the real thing, then there's a very good chance Williams would be the fifth guard (possibly sixth, if Trimble's still here), so he could waste another year of eligibility our bench, or he could go back to Louisiana -- specifically Baton Rouge -- sit out a year without losing a year's eligibility and, at the same time, be part of a winning program in a conference that right now is better than the Big East. Hope he stays here, but he was under-used this season ... a season when our bench was paper-thin.
 
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But the million dollar question is, sorry i mean 2 million dollar question, we could lose our main recruiter and potentially 5+ players how could Mullin survive this, legend or not, just like in business this is a results oriented correct? I like CM i truly do but his stubbornness might be his downfall!
 
[quote="redken" post=334048][quote="Mean Gene" post=334042]If we end up having a starting five of : Mack, Heron, Wright, Figueroa and Steere, that’s not bad. With a bench of Williams, Roberts and Manual, not bad either assuming growth from Williams and Roberts. If the staff can add a couple of grad transfers , one guard and one combo forward we can still have a good team.[/quote]
But if Ponds and Simon were to stay, and Mack and Wright turn out to be the real thing, then there's a very good chance Williams would be the fifth guard (possibly sixth, if Trimble's still here), so he could waste another year of eligibility our bench, or he could go back to Louisiana -- specifically Baton Rouge -- sit out a year without losing a year's eligibility and, at the same time, be part of a winning program in a conference that right now is better than the Big East. Hope he stays here, but he was under-used this season ... a season when our bench was paper-thin.[/quote]

I don’t think there’s is any way Ponds stays under any circumstances. But, if your scenario played out , Ponds and Simon stay and Mack and Wright are the real deal then Williams leaving is no big deal. You bring in a grad transfer guard and your backcourt is fine.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=334055][quote="redken" post=334048][quote="Mean Gene" post=334042]If we end up having a starting five of : Mack, Heron, Wright, Figueroa and Steere, that’s not bad. With a bench of Williams, Roberts and Manual, not bad either assuming growth from Williams and Roberts. If the staff can add a couple of grad transfers , one guard and one combo forward we can still have a good team.[/quote]
But if Ponds and Simon were to stay, and Mack and Wright turn out to be the real thing, then there's a very good chance Williams would be the fifth guard (possibly sixth, if Trimble's still here), so he could waste another year of eligibility our bench, or he could go back to Louisiana -- specifically Baton Rouge -- sit out a year without losing a year's eligibility and, at the same time, be part of a winning program in a conference that right now is better than the Big East. Hope he stays here, but he was under-used this season ... a season when our bench was paper-thin.[/quote]

I don’t think there’s is any way Ponds stays under any circumstances. But, if your scenario played out , Ponds and Simon stay and Mack and Wright are the real deal then Williams leaving is no big deal. You bring in a grad transfer guard and your backcourt is fine.[/quote]

There’s much more of a chance of Heron staying than Ponds
 
[quote="redken" post=334048][quote="Mean Gene" post=334042]If we end up having a starting five of : Mack, Heron, Wright, Figueroa and Steere, that’s not bad. With a bench of Williams, Roberts and Manual, not bad either assuming growth from Williams and Roberts. If the staff can add a couple of grad transfers , one guard and one combo forward we can still have a good team.[/quote]
But if Ponds and Simon were to stay, and Mack and Wright turn out to be the real thing, then there's a very good chance Williams would be the fifth guard (possibly sixth, if Trimble's still here), so he could waste another year of eligibility our bench, or he could go back to Louisiana -- specifically Baton Rouge -- sit out a year without losing a year's eligibility and, at the same time, be part of a winning program in a conference that right now is better than the Big East. Hope he stays here, but he was under-used this season ... a season when our bench was paper-thin.[/quote]

Ponds is gone. He might as well have signed the paperwork with an agent at this point.
 
[quote="SJU14" post=334057][quote="redken" post=334048][quote="Mean Gene" post=334042]If we end up having a starting five of : Mack, Heron, Wright, Figueroa and Steere, that’s not bad. With a bench of Williams, Roberts and Manual, not bad either assuming growth from Williams and Roberts. If the staff can add a couple of grad transfers , one guard and one combo forward we can still have a good team.[/quote]
But if Ponds and Simon were to stay, and Mack and Wright turn out to be the real thing, then there's a very good chance Williams would be the fifth guard (possibly sixth, if Trimble's still here), so he could waste another year of eligibility our bench, or he could go back to Louisiana -- specifically Baton Rouge -- sit out a year without losing a year's eligibility and, at the same time, be part of a winning program in a conference that right now is better than the Big East. Hope he stays here, but he was under-used this season ... a season when our bench was paper-thin.[/quote]

Ponds is gone. He might as well have signed the paperwork with an agent at this point.[/quote]
You're probably -- very probably -- right, but some "experts" have been saying he'd benefit from another year. As for Williams, like a lot of us, I liked what he showed at times, his quickness, and his length, and I would hate to see him go.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=334042]If we end up having a starting five of : Mack, Heron, Wright, Figueroa and Steere, that’s not bad. With a bench of Williams, Roberts and Manual, not bad either assuming growth from Williams and Roberts. If the staff can add a couple of grad transfers , one guard and one combo forward we can still have a good team.[/quote]

That team would likely finish anywhere between 7th-9th.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=334099][quote="Mean Gene" post=334042]If we end up having a starting five of : Mack, Heron, Wright, Figueroa and Steere, that’s not bad. With a bench of Williams, Roberts and Manual, not bad either assuming growth from Williams and Roberts. If the staff can add a couple of grad transfers , one guard and one combo forward we can still have a good team.[/quote]

That team would likely finish anywhere between 7th-9th.[/quote]
Couldn't agree with you more. Three of those starters -- Mack, Wright and Steere -- have yet to prove themselves on this level nor has Manual, and Roberts has shown he has a long way to go before he be counted on a as a solid contributor off the bench. I like Williams' potential, but that's what it is: potential. (Plus I've got a feeling he won't be sticking around.) On top of that, there's the critical question of chemistry, especially on a team with no established leader..
 
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[quote="redken" post=334135][quote="MJDinkins" post=334099][quote="Mean Gene" post=334042]If we end up having a starting five of : Mack, Heron, Wright, Figueroa and Steere, that’s not bad. With a bench of Williams, Roberts and Manual, not bad either assuming growth from Williams and Roberts. If the staff can add a couple of grad transfers , one guard and one combo forward we can still have a good team.[/quote]

That team would likely finish anywhere between 7th-9th.[/quote]
Couldn't agree with you more. Three of those starters -- Mack, Wright and Steere -- have yet to prove themselves on this level nor has Manual, and Roberts has shown he has a long way to go before he be counted on a as a solid contributor off the bench. I like Williams' potential, but that's what it is: potential. (Plus I've got a feeling he won't be sticking around.) On top of that, there's the critical question of chemistry, especially on a team with no established leader..[/quote]

Which was also the critical problem with this year’s team, no chemistry, no on the court leadership.
 
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