Back to the Drawing Board.......
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redstorm89
Active member
there is no plan!
[quote="alexander salem" post=333006]Make sure LJ and Simon return next year. Hope that Mack, Steere and Wright can make an impact. Everything else including staff change, Heron staying is all gravy at this point.[/quote]
I think you may have to subtract a couple from that equation. Regardless, unless we're bringing in star power/program changers, then it's not going to work with this staff. Philosophically, what they're doing on both sides of the ball doesn't equate into winning basketball.
I think you may have to subtract a couple from that equation. Regardless, unless we're bringing in star power/program changers, then it's not going to work with this staff. Philosophically, what they're doing on both sides of the ball doesn't equate into winning basketball.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Heron needs to come back. No upside to leaving, no downside to staying. May do better with a pass first, more traditional PG, which Mack may well be. The game tonight was an aberration, and, despite poor shooting, gave it everything and more to the end.
JohnnyFever
Active member
If it's me? Shake hands of all coaching staff and say it ain't working and it will never work. Thank them for trying. Urge Mullin to resign and let him go back with his family on the other side of the US. This isn't fair to him and it's not fair to us.
Then...hire Hurley as a #1...if no Hurley, Oats is #2. If they aren't available then get creative. After getting all new staff, have the head coach beg LJ, Mack, Steere, Tabor, and Williams to stay. Let everyone else go. Recruit some real legit shooters even if they're 3 star kids but only look for team-first high basketball IQ players. Only recruit big men with bulk and some skill, no re-treads. Recruit your arse off. Use transfers to plug holes but don't rely on them. By year 5 I guarantee you'd see better results than the past 4.
Then...hire Hurley as a #1...if no Hurley, Oats is #2. If they aren't available then get creative. After getting all new staff, have the head coach beg LJ, Mack, Steere, Tabor, and Williams to stay. Let everyone else go. Recruit some real legit shooters even if they're 3 star kids but only look for team-first high basketball IQ players. Only recruit big men with bulk and some skill, no re-treads. Recruit your arse off. Use transfers to plug holes but don't rely on them. By year 5 I guarantee you'd see better results than the past 4.
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STJ11Redmen
Active member
At this point it’s safe to say Mullin will not be coaching here past the expiration of his contract, barring a miracle turnaround. We can also assume he is not going to leave multiple millions on the table, and doesn’t appear like the school will pay two coaches at once. All we can do is hope for the best the next two years and win as many games as possibleso that we can get some talent in here and retain the talent we have. We can’t afford to completely fall into the abyss again and make the next coaches job a multiple year grind to just stabilize the program.
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="SJU11Redmen" post=333145]At this point it’s safe to say Mullin will not be coaching here past the expiration of his contract, barring a miracle turnaround. We can also assume he is not going to leave multiple millions on the table, and doesn’t appear like the school will pay two coaches at once. All we can do is hope for the best the next two years and win as many games as possibleso that we can get some talent in here and retain the talent we have. We can’t afford to completely fall into the abyss again and make the next coaches job a multiple year grind to just stabilize the program.[/quote]
If he returns next year will be his last. They won't let him coach the 6th year of a 6 year deal with no extension. Can't have that lame duck status. Again all hinges on if he gets a 5th year.
If he returns next year will be his last. They won't let him coach the 6th year of a 6 year deal with no extension. Can't have that lame duck status. Again all hinges on if he gets a 5th year.
Just ask yourself this, and I am being serious.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.
This is going to be a long off season!
[quote="fordham96" post=333196]Just ask yourself this, and I am being serious.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.[/quote]
Or maybe he's a fighter / competitor and he wants to rise to the challenge.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.[/quote]
Or maybe he's a fighter / competitor and he wants to rise to the challenge.
Different perspective:
Yes, the team underachieved. BUT, the long and slow progression to improvement continued.
YES, we need to recruit a more balanced and talented team, with SIZE and depth. But, the talent level has been increased year after year since CM/MA was hired. The amount of roster turbulence has been a concern, but that seems to be increasing all over.
YES, we lose Ponds, but maybe a more balanced attack and offense will benefit guys like Heron (if in the unlikely vent he comes back), Figgy, Simons (in the more likely event he returns) and some of the the new ones. Maybe addition by subtraction.
YES, the staff needs to be augmented or changed up. Trusting Cragg knows that and will address that.
YES, the pro style offense is NOT working and probably never will. BUT, maybe as CM grows as a coach he understands that and with a new X and O guy on bench, that resolves.
Yes, there's a bad taste in our mouths, and yes there are reasons to be concnerned about next year and beyond. BUT, the news is not all bad. The rebuilding process has been longer and much more halting than we want. But, it has progressed. Anyway maybe some of the deficiencies we see are necessary casualties due to the limitaitons of the program and the depths from which it has had to recvover form.
Not drinking the Kool Aod, but trying to balance my disapointment with my continued interest in the team.
Anyway, on to next year.
Yes, the team underachieved. BUT, the long and slow progression to improvement continued.
YES, we need to recruit a more balanced and talented team, with SIZE and depth. But, the talent level has been increased year after year since CM/MA was hired. The amount of roster turbulence has been a concern, but that seems to be increasing all over.
YES, we lose Ponds, but maybe a more balanced attack and offense will benefit guys like Heron (if in the unlikely vent he comes back), Figgy, Simons (in the more likely event he returns) and some of the the new ones. Maybe addition by subtraction.
YES, the staff needs to be augmented or changed up. Trusting Cragg knows that and will address that.
YES, the pro style offense is NOT working and probably never will. BUT, maybe as CM grows as a coach he understands that and with a new X and O guy on bench, that resolves.
Yes, there's a bad taste in our mouths, and yes there are reasons to be concnerned about next year and beyond. BUT, the news is not all bad. The rebuilding process has been longer and much more halting than we want. But, it has progressed. Anyway maybe some of the deficiencies we see are necessary casualties due to the limitaitons of the program and the depths from which it has had to recvover form.
Not drinking the Kool Aod, but trying to balance my disapointment with my continued interest in the team.
Anyway, on to next year.
[quote="SJ_NYC" post=333204][quote="fordham96" post=333196]Just ask yourself this, and I am being serious.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.[/quote]
Or maybe he's a fighter / competitor and he wants to rise to the challenge.[/quote]
I'm not sure how that disproves what I wrote. His motivation is not what I wrote about.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.[/quote]
Or maybe he's a fighter / competitor and he wants to rise to the challenge.[/quote]
I'm not sure how that disproves what I wrote. His motivation is not what I wrote about.
[quote="fordham96" post=333206][quote="SJ_NYC" post=333204][quote="fordham96" post=333196]Just ask yourself this, and I am being serious.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.[/quote]
Or maybe he's a fighter / competitor and he wants to rise to the challenge.[/quote]
I'm not sure how that disproves what I wrote. His motivation is not what I wrote about.[/quote]
B/c he'd man-up and fight through the inevitable negative grumbling.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.[/quote]
Or maybe he's a fighter / competitor and he wants to rise to the challenge.[/quote]
I'm not sure how that disproves what I wrote. His motivation is not what I wrote about.[/quote]
B/c he'd man-up and fight through the inevitable negative grumbling.
[quote="SJ_NYC" post=333209][quote="fordham96" post=333206][quote="SJ_NYC" post=333204][quote="fordham96" post=333196]Just ask yourself this, and I am being serious.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.[/quote]
Or maybe he's a fighter / competitor and he wants to rise to the challenge.[/quote]
I'm not sure how that disproves what I wrote. His motivation is not what I wrote about.[/quote]
B/c he'd man-up and fight through the inevitable negative grumbling.[/quote]
I'm sure he may very well. So could've Norm Roberts, so could Steve Lavin. The difference is neither of them have an historical connection to the school.
He comes back with what many of us believe will be a bad team.
Picture this, halfway thru the season they are struggling and small chants go up in Carnesecca and MSG to fire a legend. Then bigger chants. That would be embarrassing to him and the school.
You want that for him or the school. I think Chris and the school need to think real hard about this.[/quote]
Or maybe he's a fighter / competitor and he wants to rise to the challenge.[/quote]
I'm not sure how that disproves what I wrote. His motivation is not what I wrote about.[/quote]
B/c he'd man-up and fight through the inevitable negative grumbling.[/quote]
I'm sure he may very well. So could've Norm Roberts, so could Steve Lavin. The difference is neither of them have an historical connection to the school.
JohnnyFever
Active member
There will always be that disconnect between those who grew up with Mullin posters and attended games he played at SJ. Half the fanbase wants Mullin literally no matter what happens results wise because of the emotional connection, which I understand to a point. The other half wants what's best for the program first and more easily puts the emotions aside since we never saw him play here or maybe even in the NBA. I don't see what's radical about putting results and the program first.
That's not radical or wrong at all. I'd agree with that as well. The main reason I had trepidation with CM taking the job was that his image and reputation as our greatest player would be tarnished (by those who can't make the differentiation).
But, of course, he's being paid to do a job and should be held accountable. I am just saying that maybe we need to right-size our expectations in this current world of college basketball where schools with resources can maybe spend more and build better facilities to gain advantage; where some schools have obviously and continue to cheat; and a plethora of other reasons that SJU is slower to improve that we'd like.
I know that we can compare what we've seen to schools even in our own conference (X, Providence, Creighton, Georgetown) that have seemingly been able to have more stable programs than we do.
I am just saying that while the improvement has not been satisfactory, there has been improvement.
One last point, those of us who saw the heyday (with CM playing) are more inclined in some respects to be impatient and disgruntled since we saw the NCAA every single year (w/ an occasional NIT). So to us, it is very hard to have a team that is irrelevant.
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=333212]There will always be that disconnect between those who grew up with Mullin posters and attended games he played at SJ. Half the fanbase wants Mullin literally no matter what happens results wise because of the emotional connection, which I understand to a point. The other half wants what's best for the program first and more easily puts the emotions aside since we never saw him play here or maybe even in the NBA. I don't see what's radical about putting results and the program first.[/quote]
But, of course, he's being paid to do a job and should be held accountable. I am just saying that maybe we need to right-size our expectations in this current world of college basketball where schools with resources can maybe spend more and build better facilities to gain advantage; where some schools have obviously and continue to cheat; and a plethora of other reasons that SJU is slower to improve that we'd like.
I know that we can compare what we've seen to schools even in our own conference (X, Providence, Creighton, Georgetown) that have seemingly been able to have more stable programs than we do.
I am just saying that while the improvement has not been satisfactory, there has been improvement.
One last point, those of us who saw the heyday (with CM playing) are more inclined in some respects to be impatient and disgruntled since we saw the NCAA every single year (w/ an occasional NIT). So to us, it is very hard to have a team that is irrelevant.
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=333212]There will always be that disconnect between those who grew up with Mullin posters and attended games he played at SJ. Half the fanbase wants Mullin literally no matter what happens results wise because of the emotional connection, which I understand to a point. The other half wants what's best for the program first and more easily puts the emotions aside since we never saw him play here or maybe even in the NBA. I don't see what's radical about putting results and the program first.[/quote]