Around the Big East 18/19

Xavier signs 4 star PF Daniel Ramsey for '19 class. Now has two '19 4-star recruits with a new head coach. Villanova and I believe Butler also have two '19 4-star recruits, and DePaul, Creighton and Providence all on the board with 1. We're chilling in the Friend Zone as per usual.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=291787]Xavier signs 4 star PF Daniel Ramsey for '19 class. Now has two '19 4-star recruits with a new head coach. Villanova and I believe Butler also have two '19 4-star recruits, and DePaul, Creighton and Providence all on the board with 1. We're chilling in the Friend Zone as per usual.[/quote]

We do have Eli Wright and David Caraher onboard for next year already. Wasn't Wright a 4 star kid coming out of high school?
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=291828][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=291787]Xavier signs 4 star PF Daniel Ramsey for '19 class. Now has two '19 4-star recruits with a new head coach. Villanova and I believe Butler also have two '19 4-star recruits, and DePaul, Creighton and Providence all on the board with 1. We're chilling in the Friend Zone as per usual.[/quote]

We do have Eli Wright and David Caraher onboard for next year already. Wasn't Wright a 4 star kid coming out of high school?[/quote]

Yes.

And both will still have three years of eligibility.
 
True but if these other schools can do it we should have had 2 4* for the 19 class by now since we were involved with so many
 
[quote="usguard" post=291832]True but if these other schools can do it we should have had 2 4* for the 19 class by now since we were involved with so many[/quote]

1. How dare you, blasphemer? (joking)

2. I think part of the issue is we are currently reaching too high. We have a 3.0 and we're applying to Ivy League schools when we should be focusing more on the high end 3 star, low 4 star top 150 types. Once you taste real success again (hopefully), THEN you move up to the 4 and 5 star guys on the regular and you should be able to reel some in. Thank god for our solid transfer game, because if not we would be in a world of trouble with our roster. If we add Rice, he instantly helps recruiting at the minimum.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=291841][quote="usguard" post=291832]True but if these other schools can do it we should have had 2 4* for the 19 class by now since we were involved with so many[/quote]

1. How dare you, blasphemer? (joking)

2. I think part of the issue is we are currently reaching too high. We have a 3.0 and we're applying to Ivy League schools when we should be focusing more on the high end 3 star, low 4 star top 150 types. Once you taste real success again (hopefully), THEN you move up to the 4 and 5 star guys on the regular and you should be able to reel some in. Thank god for our solid transfer game, because if not we would be in a world of trouble with our roster. If we add Rice, he instantly helps recruiting at the minimum.[/quote]

We began recruiting these headliner guys—Lewis, Antoine, Igiehon, Cockburn, Whitney, et al—before they became high 4* and 5* prospects, I think. (And Gaffney is a 3*.)
But there is a Plan B and C: we’ve on the lists of a mix of talented 3*/4* 2019 kids, such as Bishop, Quinones, Samuel, Coulibaly, Ledlum (before he blew up) and a couple of others I’m missing, and M. Mading, a 6’11 PF who recently poppped up outta da blue.
So, I don’t believe it’s fair to fault the staff on 2019 recruiting efforts.
And, when Rice joins us, our recruiting sights will be even better honed.
 
[quote="usguard" post=291832]True but if these other schools can do it we should have had 2 4* for the 19 class by now since we were involved with so many[/quote]

All those other schools except for DePaul have had much more success than we have over the past 5 - 10 years. That's why it's tough for us. That is also why this season is so important to the development o0f this program. We need Heron to be eligible and we need to crack the TOP 25 at some point in my opinion in order to land some of these guys. If we can do that, and prove ourselves as a program I think we will get our fair share right out of high school and not have to rely so much on the transfer process.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=291857][quote="usguard" post=291832]True but if these other schools can do it we should have had 2 4* for the 19 class by now since we were involved with so many[/quote]

All those other schools except for DePaul have had much more success than we have over the past 5 - 10 years. That's why it's tough for us. That is also why this season is so important to the development o0f this program. We need Heron to be eligible and we need to crack the TOP 25 at some point in my opinion in order to land some of these guys. If we can do that, and prove ourselves as a program I think we will get our fair share right out of high school and not have to rely so much on the transfer process.[/quote]

It's a solid point, but not one I'm sure I completely buy. I mean, Xavier has a completely new staff - so what does their recent success have to do with anything? For whatever reason, when it comes to plucking kids directly out of high school, we have a lot of trouble closing. Don't mean to come off as bashing the staff, as the effort has clearly been there. But need to figure out how to close, and soon, and i'm not sure an appearance in the Top 25 moves the needle all that much. We really are like the "good guy" stuck in the friend zone with these kids - they come back later via transfer when they're ready to settle down and have a family LOL.
 
Windy City Johnny Fan wrote: It's a solid point, but not one I'm sure I completely buy. I mean, Xavier has a completely new staff - so what does their recent success have to do with anything? For whatever reason, when it comes to plucking kids directly out of high school, we have a lot of trouble closing. Don't mean to come off as bashing the staff, as the effort has clearly been there. But need to figure out how to close, and soon, and i'm not sure an appearance in the Top 25 moves the needle all that much. We really are like the "good guy" stuck in the friend zone with these kids - they come back later via transfer when they're ready to settle down and have a family LOL.


WCJF, it seems to me that the three most critical components for success in recruitng top talent out of HS (legally) these days are in no particular order: (i) hard work chasing talent and selling program by staff, (ii) the program's recent successful track record, especially getting to the Big Dance as recruits want the exposure and (iii) the recruit's comfort level with staff's ability to prepare them for the next level. We (unlike Xavier and several other BE programs) don't have a successful track record in the recent past. The staff is clearly working hard and there may be a gut level comfort with coach being able to get kids to the NBA, but he is too new at the job to have a track record in that respect yet. That is why I agree with MG's post on importance of some significant on the court success in being able to close on more big name kids.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=291861]Windy City Johnny Fan wrote: It's a solid point, but not one I'm sure I completely buy. I mean, Xavier has a completely new staff - so what does their recent success have to do with anything? For whatever reason, when it comes to plucking kids directly out of high school, we have a lot of trouble closing. Don't mean to come off as bashing the staff, as the effort has clearly been there. But need to figure out how to close, and soon, and i'm not sure an appearance in the Top 25 moves the needle all that much. We really are like the "good guy" stuck in the friend zone with these kids - they come back later via transfer when they're ready to settle down and have a family LOL.


WCJF, it seems to me that the three most critical components for success in recruitng top talent out of HS (legally) these days are (i) hard work chasing talent and selling program by staff, (ii) the program's recent successful track record, especially getting to the Big Dance as recruits want the exposure and (iii) the recruit's comfort level with staff's ability to prepare them for the next level. We (unlike Xavier and several other BE programs) don't have a successful track record in the recent past. The staff is clearly working hard and there may be a gut level comfort with coach being able to get kids to the NBA, but he is too new at the job to have a track record in that respect yet. That is why I agree with MG's post on importance of some significant on the court success in being able to close on more big name kids.[/quote]

I hear you, but my point is, the new Xavier staff doesn't have a track record either. New head coach and some new assistants. So they have to prove themselves too, yet they are signing recruits.
 
Yes but Xavier has a proven track record of getting to the tournament and the new coach was a key member of that staff. Anyway, I get your point on closing, hopefully that will change going forward. I am optimistic.
 
I said it once Steele was hired, they will not skip a beat. Xavier's history with promoting assistants is arguably the best in the cou ntry. I read an article that had them ranked 9th for next year, clearly that writer has no idea what he's talking about. They will finish no less than 5th in the conference next year, probably top 3. They reloaded almost immediately for next year and got cracking on the 19 class faster than most new coaches. Very impressive if you ask me. Unfortunately its good for the Big East for Steele to keep it going at Xavier.
 
[quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=291863][quote="NCJohnnie" post=291861]Windy City Johnny Fan wrote: It's a solid point, but not one I'm sure I completely buy. I mean, Xavier has a completely new staff - so what does their recent success have to do with anything? For whatever reason, when it comes to plucking kids directly out of high school, we have a lot of trouble closing. Don't mean to come off as bashing the staff, as the effort has clearly been there. But need to figure out how to close, and soon, and i'm not sure an appearance in the Top 25 moves the needle all that much. We really are like the "good guy" stuck in the friend zone with these kids - they come back later via transfer when they're ready to settle down and have a family LOL.


WCJF, it seems to me that the three most critical components for success in recruitng top talent out of HS (legally) these days are (i) hard work chasing talent and selling program by staff, (ii) the program's recent successful track record, especially getting to the Big Dance as recruits want the exposure and (iii) the recruit's comfort level with staff's ability to prepare them for the next level. We (unlike Xavier and several other BE programs) don't have a successful track record in the recent past. The staff is clearly working hard and there may be a gut level comfort with coach being able to get kids to the NBA, but he is too new at the job to have a track record in that respect yet. That is why I agree with MG's post on importance of some significant on the court success in being able to close on more big name kids.[/quote]

I hear you, but my point is, the new Xavier staff doesn't have a track record either. New head coach and some new assistants. So they have to prove themselves too, yet they are signing recruits.[/quote]

You are not giving enough credit for the recent track record of the program itself. These are kids and they know recent history.

Yes we have two HOFers on our staff who also were great players, and yes kids can you tube videos to watch them play in their hey day, but its not the same. Those credentials will get you in the door and the conversation. But success and a track record will help immensely. I have no doubt that they are working hard and hopefully we can get at least one of these blue chips. But success this season like a top 25 finish and pro scouts and college pundits all over Ponds and Heron would go a very long way.
 
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[quote="SJU85" post=291880][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=291863][quote="NCJohnnie" post=291861]Windy City Johnny Fan wrote: It's a solid point, but not one I'm sure I completely buy. I mean, Xavier has a completely new staff - so what does their recent success have to do with anything? For whatever reason, when it comes to plucking kids directly out of high school, we have a lot of trouble closing. Don't mean to come off as bashing the staff, as the effort has clearly been there. But need to figure out how to close, and soon, and i'm not sure an appearance in the Top 25 moves the needle all that much. We really are like the "good guy" stuck in the friend zone with these kids - they come back later via transfer when they're ready to settle down and have a family LOL.


WCJF, it seems to me that the three most critical components for success in recruitng top talent out of HS (legally) these days are (i) hard work chasing talent and selling program by staff, (ii) the program's recent successful track record, especially getting to the Big Dance as recruits want the exposure and (iii) the recruit's comfort level with staff's ability to prepare them for the next level. We (unlike Xavier and several other BE programs) don't have a successful track record in the recent past. The staff is clearly working hard and there may be a gut level comfort with coach being able to get kids to the NBA, but he is too new at the job to have a track record in that respect yet. That is why I agree with MG's post on importance of some significant on the court success in being able to close on more big name kids.[/quote]

I hear you, but my point is, the new Xavier staff doesn't have a track record either. New head coach and some new assistants. So they have to prove themselves too, yet they are signing recruits.[/quote]

You are not giving enough credit for the recent track record of the program itself. These are kids and they know recent history.

Yes we have two HOFers on our staff who also were great players, and yes kids can you tube videos to watch them play in their hey day, but its not the same. Those credentials will get you in the door and the conversation. But success and a track record will help immensely. I have no doubt that they are working hard and hopefully we can get at least one of these blue chips. But success this season like a top 25 finish and pro scouts and college pundits all over Ponds and Heron would go a very long way.[/quote]

Makes sense, good post
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=291865]Yes but Xavier has a proven track record of getting to the tournament and the new coach was a key member of that staff. Anyway, I get your point on closing, hopefully that will change going forward. I am optimistic.[/quote]

This could have been said about St. John’s 20 plus years ago.
 
OLV72 wrote: NCJohnnie wrote: Yes but Xavier has a proven track record of getting to the tournament and the new coach was a key member of that staff. Anyway, I get your point on closing, hopefully that will change going forward. I am optimistic.

This could have been said about St. John’s 20 plus years ago.




Exactly, which is why Mahoney was able to recruit Felipe & Zendon.
 
The top 25 is not the end all be all and yes it's subjective and you can make the tourney without being in it. That being said, it's still a national list for the who's who in college hoops. Hard to understand why many seem to minimize that. You're not seen as truly relevant nationally if you aren't on it or right on the verge. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's the perception nationally. There's a reason ESPN only shows highlights from the top 25...they realize the average national fan only cares about the "who's who" in college hoops. Do you guys realize we probably had at least hundreds of thousands if not millions more people watching our highlights when we were ranked vs. unranked? It means a lot for brand awareness and national relevance. It also adds prestige.
 
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