Anderson - is he really the guy ?

[MainMan]

”I really think the next coach is going to bring us back to glory.”
-SJU fans after Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Norm, Lav, Mullin.

 

[RedStormNC]

”I really think the next coach is going to bring us back to glory.”
-SJU fans after Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Norm, Lav, Mullin.

Not looking for glory... I don't think that's realistic any longer given where university is at and the conservative approach we choose to take in regards to investing in the program proactively.

I've just seen enough of Anderson as an in game coach & recruiter that I don't think we'll get notably better than his conference record here shows...not that fugazi overall fluff record.

This concept of teams getting better as season goes on can only be taken so far if you need 3/4 of year to figure out the pieces you have.

University is shelling out big $ and for these results I think we could get the same at a better price. That's not Anderson's fault though.

 

[redfazed]

Do not be surprised if Anderson resigns. The rumor is out there and it has some merit. Partly due to mediocre results here and partly for personal reasons (he and his wife have spent virtually their entire lives in the South, NYC has been a tough adjustment.)

If true—a big if—then this team needs to get Pitino. A lowkey type of hire is not going to cut it at this point in the program. It needs to be jolted back alive and a polarizing Pitino type is what is needed at this point.

By the way, I say all this as someone who likes Anderson. This isn’t a wishful-thinking type post. If he stays, fine by me.

 

[MainMan]

”I really think the next coach is going to bring us back to glory.”
-SJU fans after Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Norm, Lav, Mullin.

Not looking for glory... I don't think that's realistic any longer given where university is at and the conservative approach we choose to take in regards to investing in the program proactively.

I've just seen enough of Anderson as an in game coach & recruiter that I don't think we'll get notably better than his conference record here shows...not that fugazi overall fluff record.

This concept of teams getting better as season goes on can only be taken so far if you need 3/4 of year to figure out the pieces you have.

University is shelling out big $ and for these results I think we could get the same at a better price. That's not Anderson's fault though.

What about the past 20+ years of STJ basketball thinks you're going to build a consistent NCAA tournament team by constantly changing coaches?


 

 

[beast of the east]

Finished up 1-11 vs. the top 6 teams in the conference. How people actually want another year of this ineptitude is beyond me. 

With JC most likely gone and kids transferring out in all likelihood it's the perfect time for a transition year under a new coach. I don't even care if it's Pitino or some big name. I'd be very happy with Jared Grasso or Shaheen Holloway. 

I emailed you about your phony post about Cragg.  Please respond to my DM.   I know why you disappeared - you were dishing falsehoods and stirring the pot. 

 

[monte]

At this point, I think we've all seen enough of a CMA sample size here(also taking in to account what he did at Arkansas), to know what we have; a good man and a an above average coach.  His results here have been average, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt due to what he did at Ark and where our program was when he took over. Unfortunately, it's going to take much more than an above average coach to resurrect  our program. It's going to take a dynamo. So, I've come to the conclusion that for as long as as CMA is here, we will be somewhere around where we are right now; when things break our way we'll dance (every few years), but more often then not we'll be on the outside looking in. This is not meant as a knock on CMA, but that old cliche about "high floor, low ceiling" has never been more apropos. His teams will always compete, but will often times come up just short. It's that good enough for you as a SJU fan, then CMA is your man. If it's not, then he's not. 

 

[beast of the east]

Do not be surprised if Anderson resigns. The rumor is out there and it has some merit. Partly due to mediocre results here and partly for personal reasons (he and his wife have spent virtually their entire lives in the South, NYC has been a tough adjustment.)

If true—a big if—then this team needs to get Pitino. A lowkey type of hire is not going to cut it at this point in the program. It needs to be jolted back alive and a polarizing Pitino type is what is needed at this point.

By the way, I say all this as someone who likes Anderson. This isn’t a wishful-thinking type post. If he stays, fine by me.

I'm pretty certain this is a rumor without basis, perpetuated by a very small group of people who have also attacked Coach, staff, and administration on here and on Twitter.    As you are a supporter of Anderson I would say you have little reason to be concerned that he will resign.  

 

[RedStormNC]

”I really think the next coach is going to bring us back to glory.”
-SJU fans after Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Norm, Lav, Mullin.

Not looking for glory... I don't think that's realistic any longer given where university is at and the conservative approach we choose to take in regards to investing in the program proactively.

I've just seen enough of Anderson as an in game coach & recruiter that I don't think we'll get notably better than his conference record here shows...not that fugazi overall fluff record.

This concept of teams getting better as season goes on can only be taken so far if you need 3/4 of year to figure out the pieces you have.

University is shelling out big $ and for these results I think we could get the same at a better price. That's not Anderson's fault though.

What about the past 20+ years of STJ basketball thinks you're going to build a consistent NCAA tournament team by constantly changing coaches?



 

I don't think we will until we see University put money where mouth proactively in a meaningful way - I'm hopeful, but not sold that the capital campaign approach will get the basketball program what it fully needs in short order. If not, but I'd rather the University save some money for the similar results in record and reruiting. We don't need a $4M+ staff payroll for the recruiting and performance we are at.

 

[redfazed]

At this point, I think we've all seen enough of a CMA sample size here(also taking in to account what he did at Arkansas), to know what we have; a good man and a an above average coach.  His results here have been average, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt due to what he did at Ark and where our program was when he took over. Unfortunately, it's going to take much more than an above average coach to resurrect  our program. It's going to take a dynamo. So, I've come to the conclusion that for as long as as CMA is here, we will be somewhere around where we are right now; when things break our way we'll dance (every few years), but more often then not we'll be on the outside looking in. This is not meant as a knock on CMA, but that old cliche about "high floor, low ceiling" has never been more apropos. His teams will always compete, but will often times come up just short. It's that good enough for you as a SJU fan, then CMA is your man. If it's not, then he's not. 

 

Is it good enough for CMA? That is a real issue.This is a guy who is used to coaching NCAA Tourney teams and now he's stuck in mediocre land. As I said, his resigning is a real possibility and the rumor is out there. Cragg extending his contract just gave him more leverage to negoiate for his next gig.
 

 

[MainMan]

At this point, I think we've all seen enough of a CMA sample size here(also taking in to account what he did at Arkansas), to know what we have; a good man and a an above average coach.  His results here have been average, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt due to what he did at Ark and where our program was when he took over. Unfortunately, it's going to take much more than an above average coach to resurrect  our program. It's going to take a dynamo. So, I've come to the conclusion that for as long as as CMA is here, we will be somewhere around where we are right now; when things break our way we'll dance (every few years), but more often then not we'll be on the outside looking in. This is not meant as a knock on CMA, but that old cliche about "high floor, low ceiling" has never been more apropos. His teams will always compete, but will often times come up just short. It's that good enough for you as a SJU fan, then CMA is your man. If it's not, then he's not. 

Good post. 

Here is where I am more bullish on CMA's future here. Last year's transfer season (as both you and I were saying at the time) killed this year's bball season. 

CMA needs to shoulder the blame for that, but the COVID transfer rules created a perfect storm. We returned THREE players from last year's promising squad. Yes, two of the best returned but we lost so much in Dunn, Williams, Earlington and even headcase Moore.

So.... if CMA can have high retention every year, I think we'll be much better than this year's record for seasons to come. 
 

 

[beast of the east]

”I really think the next coach is going to bring us back to glory.”
-SJU fans after Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Norm, Lav, Mullin.

Not looking for glory... I don't think that's realistic any longer given where university is at and the conservative approach we choose to take in regards to investing in the program proactively.

I've just seen enough of Anderson as an in game coach & recruiter that I don't think we'll get notably better than his conference record here shows...not that fugazi overall fluff record.

This concept of teams getting better as season goes on can only be taken so far if you need 3/4 of year to figure out the pieces you have.

University is shelling out big $ and for these results I think we could get the same at a better price. That's not Anderson's fault though.

What about the past 20+ years of STJ basketball thinks you're going to build a consistent NCAA tournament team by constantly changing coaches?




 

I don't think we will until we see University put money where mouth proactively in a meaningful way - I'm hopeful, but not sold that the capital campaign approach will get the basketball program what it fully needs in short order. If not, but I'd rather the University save some money for the similar results in record and reruiting. We don't need a $4M+ staff payroll for the recruiting and performance we are at.

Serious question about putting money where your mouth is?   As an incredibly loyal and passionate fan an alum who cares enormously about our school and program, what would you be willing to contribute towards that end?   

 

[RedStormNC]

Not a fair question Beast.

I've contributed regularly for 20 years to both school and athletics at varying levels based on my abilities to do so at that point in time..   What I'm willing to contribute is not static - it's based on personal finances at the time (a child in college doesn't make it easy as you know), along with the level of belief I have in what I'm hearing AND seeing from university, admin, coach etc.) 

When I see a BB program specific plan with tangible timelines & actions along with confidence we have the right coach to lead program  - I'd feel much more confident in stepping up levels I can afford to give at that point in time. 




 

 

[redfazed]

Do not be surprised if Anderson resigns. The rumor is out there and it has some merit. Partly due to mediocre results here and partly for personal reasons (he and his wife have spent virtually their entire lives in the South, NYC has been a tough adjustment.)

If true—a big if—then this team needs to get Pitino. A lowkey type of hire is not going to cut it at this point in the program. It needs to be jolted back alive and a polarizing Pitino type is what is needed at this point.

By the way, I say all this as someone who likes Anderson. This isn’t a wishful-thinking type post. If he stays, fine by me.

I'm pretty certain this is a rumor without basis, perpetuated by a very small group of people who have also attacked Coach, staff, and administration on here and on Twitter.    As you are a supporter of Anderson I would say you have little reason to be concerned that he will resign.  

 

I am not "concerned" that he will resign and I heard the rumor from a source who actually likes CMA, as I do. It is not just the wingnuts who have heard this. And by the way, no one on this site appears to be looking at things from CMA's perspective. A guy from the south, who's used to coaching winning programs and has no roots in the NYC area. Not fun.

 

[beast of the east]

Not a fair question Beast.

I've contributed regularly for 20 years to both school and athletics at varying levels based on my abilities to do so at that point in time..   What I'm willing to contribute is not static - it's based on personal finances at the time (a child in college doesn't make it easy as you know), along with the level of belief I have in what I'm hearing AND seeing from university, admin, coach etc.) 

When I see a BB program specific plan with tangible timelines & actions along with confidence we have the right coach to lead program  - I'd feel much more confident in stepping up levels I can afford to give at that point in time. 





 

Thanks for your response.  I didn't intend for it to be as personal as it appears when I re-read it.  I know you are a pasisonate and great fan, and like everyone, didn't wake up this morning felling great.   I meant it as more of a rhetorical question - and it is GREAT that you contribute anything whatsoever.   A small donation that is sacrificial is worth way more to me than a huge one from discretionary funds.

The point is that very few schools run athletics as a strictly for profit enterprise that pays for itself.   Every athletic program which is successful, even the uber successful ones, rely on a strong donor base.   Winning does beget donations, but donations allow for investments that beget winning.    If our fans want winning, the school must raise more money.   The bottom line when I chatted with Shanley is we need more philanthropy.

 

[beast of the east]

Do not be surprised if Anderson resigns. The rumor is out there and it has some merit. Partly due to mediocre results here and partly for personal reasons (he and his wife have spent virtually their entire lives in the South, NYC has been a tough adjustment.)

If true—a big if—then this team needs to get Pitino. A lowkey type of hire is not going to cut it at this point in the program. It needs to be jolted back alive and a polarizing Pitino type is what is needed at this point.

By the way, I say all this as someone who likes Anderson. This isn’t a wishful-thinking type post. If he stays, fine by me.

I'm pretty certain this is a rumor without basis, perpetuated by a very small group of people who have also attacked Coach, staff, and administration on here and on Twitter.    As you are a supporter of Anderson I would say you have little reason to be concerned that he will resign.  


 

I am not "concerned" that he will resign and I heard the rumor from a source who actually likes CMA, as I do. It is not just the wingnuts who have heard this. And by the way, no one on this site appears to be looking at things from CMA's perspective. A guy from the south, who's used to coaching winning programs and has no roots in the NYC area. Not fun.

I did a ton of business in the south and in the midwest, and understand that those places are very different from NY.   We have the worst reputation, somewhat well founded, of any people in the US.   I can understand how many coaches would want no part of the harsh treatment by our fanbase and local media, which often is unhinged, rude, and downright nasty.   It's plausible to think that if Anderson knew what he was getting into, he might have passed.  However, once here, I think he basically ignores socially media, and doesn't bother to read what the local papers say about him.

 

[SJU61982]

At this point, I think we've all seen enough of a CMA sample size here(also taking in to account what he did at Arkansas), to know what we have; a good man and a an above average coach.  His results here have been average, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt due to what he did at Ark and where our program was when he took over. Unfortunately, it's going to take much more than an above average coach to resurrect  our program. It's going to take a dynamo. So, I've come to the conclusion that for as long as as CMA is here, we will be somewhere around where we are right now; when things break our way we'll dance (every few years), but more often then not we'll be on the outside looking in. This is not meant as a knock on CMA, but that old cliche about "high floor, low ceiling" has never been more apropos. His teams will always compete, but will often times come up just short. It's that good enough for you as a SJU fan, then CMA is your man. If it's not, then he's not. 


 

Is it good enough for CMA? That is a real issue.This is a guy who is used to coaching NCAA Tourney teams and now he's stuck in mediocre land. As I said, his resigning is a real possibility and the rumor is out there. Cragg extending his contract just gave him more leverage to negoiate for his next gig.


I don't know about his feelings regarding NYC, but if you listened to Bruce Weber's comments, he made it clear that he's resigning from K-State, because he doesn't think he can win there, while also running a clean program.  I can see Anderson doing the same thing, maybe not after this year, but after next year. That's a guess on my part.  No inside info here.

 

 

[lawmanfan]

At this point, I think we've all seen enough of a CMA sample size here(also taking in to account what he did at Arkansas), to know what we have; a good man and a an above average coach.  His results here have been average, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt due to what he did at Ark and where our program was when he took over. Unfortunately, it's going to take much more than an above average coach to resurrect  our program. It's going to take a dynamo. So, I've come to the conclusion that for as long as as CMA is here, we will be somewhere around where we are right now; when things break our way we'll dance (every few years), but more often then not we'll be on the outside looking in. This is not meant as a knock on CMA, but that old cliche about "high floor, low ceiling" has never been more apropos. His teams will always compete, but will often times come up just short. It's that good enough for you as a SJU fan, then CMA is your man. If it's not, then he's not. 
 

This is a very fair post and view.  To the extent that I disagree (and only slightly) it is in two regards:

1.  After 25 years of cycling through coaches, I am fine with having a high character, professional coach who will stay here for awhile and bring a level of stability to the program as opposed to trying to catch lightening in a bottle (again).  SJU might get lucky and find the next big thing, but I just don't have a high degree of confidence in that option.  And that option usually comes with being willing to do things that SJU isn't willing to do.

2.  I don't think we have seen the last chapter of Mike Anderson's upside at St John's.  What happens in terms of player retention from this year to next year, any addition via the transfer portal, and what happens next year will go a long way towards clarifying things, at least for me.  I view this season in many ways as the real Year 1 of Anderson's tenure.  If he has good retention and good additions then next year he will be able to build on the foundation he laid this year.  If he does not have good retention and/or good additions, then that would be a problem.  But if he is able to keep moving forward, then I think having a program that wins steadily in NYC can give him a springboard to get a somewhat higher ceiling than you think.

Overall I don't think we are more than 2% apart - you're at 49% and I'm at 51%, is all.

 

[monte]

At this point, I think we've all seen enough of a CMA sample size here(also taking in to account what he did at Arkansas), to know what we have; a good man and a an above average coach.  His results here have been average, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt due to what he did at Ark and where our program was when he took over. Unfortunately, it's going to take much more than an above average coach to resurrect  our program. It's going to take a dynamo. So, I've come to the conclusion that for as long as as CMA is here, we will be somewhere around where we are right now; when things break our way we'll dance (every few years), but more often then not we'll be on the outside looking in. This is not meant as a knock on CMA, but that old cliche about "high floor, low ceiling" has never been more apropos. His teams will always compete, but will often times come up just short. It's that good enough for you as a SJU fan, then CMA is your man. If it's not, then he's not. 


 

Is it good enough for CMA? That is a real issue.This is a guy who is used to coaching NCAA Tourney teams and now he's stuck in mediocre land. As I said, his resigning is a real possibility and the rumor is out there. Cragg extending his contract just gave him more leverage to negoiate for his next gig.

 

In his 8 years at Ark, his teams danced 3 times. Granted that's better then us, but he's hardly someone who came from a gig where his teams danced consistently. My sense is that if the northern/NY lifestyle is acceptable him and his wife, then he'll stick it out here. Although, as I mentioned before, he and his agent always do seem to have an ear out for the next best gig. 

 

[monte]

At this point, I think we've all seen enough of a CMA sample size here(also taking in to account what he did at Arkansas), to know what we have; a good man and a an above average coach.  His results here have been average, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt due to what he did at Ark and where our program was when he took over. Unfortunately, it's going to take much more than an above average coach to resurrect  our program. It's going to take a dynamo. So, I've come to the conclusion that for as long as as CMA is here, we will be somewhere around where we are right now; when things break our way we'll dance (every few years), but more often then not we'll be on the outside looking in. This is not meant as a knock on CMA, but that old cliche about "high floor, low ceiling" has never been more apropos. His teams will always compete, but will often times come up just short. It's that good enough for you as a SJU fan, then CMA is your man. If it's not, then he's not. 

 

This is a very fair post and view.  To the extent that I disagree (and only slightly) it is in two regards:

1.  After 25 years of cycling through coaches, I am fine with having a high character, professional coach who will stay here for awhile and bring a level of stability to the program as opposed to trying to catch lightening in a bottle (again).  SJU might get lucky and find the next big thing, but I just don't have a high degree of confidence in that option.  And that option usually comes with being willing to do things that SJU isn't willing to do.

2.  I don't think we have seen the last chapter of Mike Anderson's upside at St John's.  What happens in terms of player retention from this year to next year, any addition via the transfer portal, and what happens next year will go a long way towards clarifying things, at least for me.  I view this season in many ways as the real Year 1 of Anderson's tenure.  If he has good retention and good additions then next year he will be able to build on the foundation he laid this year.  If he does not have good retention and/or good additions, then that would be a problem.  But if he is able to keep moving forward, then I think having a program that wins steadily in NYC can give him a springboard to get a somewhat higher ceiling than you think.

Overall I don't think we are more than 2% apart - you're at 49% and I'm at 51%, is all.

Not 51% and 49% you? 

 

[lawmanfan]

 

Not 51% and 49% you? 
 

Allow me to rephrase:  You think the cannoli is half empty and I think it's half filled.