Anderson - is he really the guy ?

[RedStormNC]

Not an Anderson fan, but I'm more concerned that if school can't figure out how to solve the facilities issue/invest as well as get more games at MSG as true home, the choice of coach won't matter as much.

 

 

[MainMan]

This thread, like every other "we need a new coach" thread, reminds me of the movie "National Treasure". Nicholas Cage spent a lifetime  following clues looking for the treasure of all treasures, only to find another clue. Instead of clues, we search for another coach. Then another, and another. Instead of accepting reality that the game hasn't passed the coach by, but passed the university by. Hollywood has happy endings. This basketball program doesn't.

The next coach may have a more offensive sets  and more creative defenses to play than CMA. But he will have the same barriers to recruiting top 100 recruits that CMA has. I am of the belief that St. John's plays by a set of rules that most programs find laughable. Where is my evidence?  A roster of 3 star recruits, year after year. One top 100 recruit (97th on the list of top 100) in 4 CMA recruiting cycles. And  he works hard at it. Does anyone believe there is an attainable coach out there that can recruit better, having the same facilities and same antiquated approach to recruiting that exists now?  Does anyone think that any coach alive can consistently win in a major conference with 3 star recruits playing against 4 and the occasional 5 star recruits? Especially with liberal transfer rules?  If so, please offer some examples. Then maybe I would have some confidence that all of our problems can be solved with a coaching change, just like we have all believed for the past 20 years.

Ding, ding, ding.
We have a winner.

 

 

[usguard]

Mainman ,no we cant
 

 

[boo haarvey]

This thread, like every other "we need a new coach" thread, reminds me of the movie "National Treasure". Nicholas Cage spent a lifetime  following clues looking for the treasure of all treasures, only to find another clue. Instead of clues, we search for another coach. Then another, and another. Instead of accepting reality that the game hasn't passed the coach by, but passed the university by. Hollywood has happy endings. This basketball program doesn't.

The next coach may have a more offensive sets  and more creative defenses to play than CMA. But he will have the same barriers to recruiting top 100 recruits that CMA has. I am of the belief that St. John's plays by a set of rules that most programs find laughable. Where is my evidence?  A roster of 3 star recruits, year after year. One top 100 recruit (97th on the list of top 100) in 4 CMA recruiting cycles. And  he works hard at it. Does anyone believe there is an attainable coach out there that can recruit better, having the same facilities and same antiquated approach to recruiting that exists now?  Does anyone think that any coach alive can consistently win in a major conference with 3 star recruits playing against 4 and the occasional 5 star recruits? Especially with liberal transfer rules?  If so, please offer some examples. Then maybe I would have some confidence that all of our problems can be solved with a coaching change, just like we have all believed for the past 20 years.

Not sure I get the point of the post, if in fact there is one.  Are you suggesting we should give up on the program?  Are you saying we should be more patient with CMA bc the job is so tough?  

I’ll say this much — Seton Hall and Providence are no more desirable than SJU.  Indeed, I would posit they are less desirable places to play and coach basketball than SJU.  

And yet for  the last ten years these programs have been far more successful than us.  Baylor is in Waco for gosh sakes.  We may never be Duke or even Nova, but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that with the right coach, we can’t be competitive.
 

 

[MattyHoops]

It's a bogus narrative that we can't bring in talent here. Matt A brought in talent, but ultimately the roster wasn't complete enough to really be a contender (thank Mullin's no show for the Femi visit). Lavin brought in talent before he stoppped recruiting. CMA has the reigning BE FOY and 1st team All BE. The problem this year is that the transfers haven't been as good as those who departed. Williams is better than Smith. Moore for all his many issues was more impactful than Wheeler so far. Cole for his many faults provided more than Coburn. Dunn breaks down defenses better than Mathis. Earlington was a spark in many games. We need shooters and guys who don't turn the ball over. That's a talent evaluation and recruiting issue that falls on the coaching staff. If we had hired Hurley rather than Mullin or Pitino rather than CMA, there is no doubt that the program would now be a real contender in BE and a threat in NCAAs. We can make all the excuses in the world, but players come for coaches (and $) moreso than facilities. It's nice to have all those prongs, but not all those prongs are created equal.

 

[MainMan]

Mainman ,no we cant

 

Exactly.

 

[MainMan]

1996
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no..... 

1998
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no... 
 
2004
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no....

2010
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no.... 

2015
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no....

2019 
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no....

 

[ManhattAn1]

Three questions:
1). Who is replacing Anderson?  We had no luck three years ago.  Why is this time going to be better?
2) Who is paying the buyout and for the new coach?
3). Why should we play more MSG games when we are averaging 3300 fans per game at home.
 

 

[mjmaherjr]

1996
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no..... 

1998
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no... 
 
2004
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no....

2010
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no.... 

2015
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no....

2019 
Hey this guy isn't working out. 
Let's get this guy. 
We're going to be awesome!
Oh no....

To be fair for more accuracy when Norm was coach by the end it was " This is the worst coach in Big East History get him the F out of here and get his credit to the other team BS out of here too "

With Mullin it was " Holy Shit he's worse than Norm " and " Is he really sitting on the scorers table or is that a mirage " and " Is he really tying his shoes during a huddle " and " Holy crap he's outside of the huddle looking in letting a 25 year old coach "

 

[IDRAFT]

Three questions:
1). Who is replacing Anderson?  We had no luck three years ago.  Why is this time going to be better?
2) Who is paying the buyout and for the new coach?
3). Why should we play more MSG games when we are averaging 3300 fans per game at home.

Agree with all - especially number three.

 

 

[IDRAFT]

Three questions:
1). Who is replacing Anderson?  We had no luck three years ago.  Why is this time going to be better?
2) Who is paying the buyout and for the new coach?
3). Why should we play more MSG games when we are averaging 3300 fans per game at home.

Agree with all - especially number three.

 

 

[boo haarvey]

Three questions:
1). Who is replacing Anderson?  We had no luck three years ago.  Why is this time going to be better?
2) Who is paying the buyout and for the new coach?
3). Why should we play more MSG games when we are averaging 3300 fans per game at home.

I don’t think any of us know the terms of the buyout.  I’m assuming it’s relatively small.  As I said before, I would give CMA this year and another to make the tournament.  Four years is sufficient.  If we can’t  make the tournament in four years then time to move on.  We don’t need to pay a coach more than $2 million a year for mediocrity.  We can pay someone $900k for that.

 

 

[GardenCity62]

The reason for SJUs fall to mediocrity over the past 25 yrs is lack of attracting top recruits.We have had competent coaches who can’t make level 4 or 5 players out of threes. Making another coaching change is just a Hail Mary.
If the facilities are a major drawback in attracting top players and SJU would have to be aware of this thru coaches interviews there are 4 possible solutions.
1 Hire that rare coach like Pitino who can attract top players even with bad facilities. That didn’t work so that is out.
2 Conduct an alumni drive to raise the money to improve facilities. This is out because SJU alums don’t contribute.
3 Pinpoint extremely successful alums to contribute large amounts of money.That won’t work because the board of trustees  are unable to work with the possible donors.
4 Have Father Shanley direct money earmarked for other purposes to improve the facilities as an investment with the improvements resulting in better teams, more interest and more applications.
Otherwise give Anderson another year or two, then replace him with the current St Peters coach and hope for lightning in a bottle.
Not a pleasant future.

 

[RedStormNC]

Great post Enright.

They need to accelerate decision making if they truly want to be relevant or not. If so, get more meaningful investments in motion vs. trying to replicate Japanese corporate philosophy of a 100 yr plan.  

 

[Ray Morgan]

This thread, like every other "we need a new coach" thread, reminds me of the movie "National Treasure". Nicholas Cage spent a lifetime  following clues looking for the treasure of all treasures, only to find another clue. Instead of clues, we search for another coach. Then another, and another. Instead of accepting reality that the game hasn't passed the coach by, but passed the university by. Hollywood has happy endings. This basketball program doesn't.

The next coach may have a more offensive sets  and more creative defenses to play than CMA. But he will have the same barriers to recruiting top 100 recruits that CMA has. I am of the belief that St. John's plays by a set of rules that most programs find laughable. Where is my evidence?  A roster of 3 star recruits, year after year. One top 100 recruit (97th on the list of top 100) in 4 CMA recruiting cycles. And  he works hard at it. Does anyone believe there is an attainable coach out there that can recruit better, having the same facilities and same antiquated approach to recruiting that exists now?  Does anyone think that any coach alive can consistently win in a major conference with 3 star recruits playing against 4 and the occasional 5 star recruits? Especially with liberal transfer rules?  If so, please offer some examples. Then maybe I would have some confidence that all of our problems can be solved with a coaching change, just like we have all believed for the past 20 years.

Not sure I get the point of the post, if in fact there is one.  Are you suggesting we should give up on the program?  Are you saying we should be more patient with CMA bc the job is so tough?  

I’ll say this much — Seton Hall and Providence are no more desirable than SJU.  Indeed, I would posit they are less desirable places to play and coach basketball than SJU.  

And yet for  the last ten years these programs have been far more successful than us.  Baylor is in Waco for gosh sakes.  We may never be Duke or even Nova, but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that with the right coach, we can’t be competitive.

To try to engage in a discussion of the  recruiting issues with this program without discussing how corrupt the recruiting game is, or without at least acknowledging that other programs, perhaps even the ones mentioned,  may have bent the rules a bit (or a lot) is a non-starter.   Does anyone here honestly believe that this program can compete for the top 5 spots in the Big East, and get more than an occasional NCAA invite, without recruiting better?   Does anyone really believe that there is a coach that is not a complete fantasy that can either win with 3 star talent, or recruit enough 4 star talent to change our trajectory?   With all things being equal that is. Who is this mystery man?  I thought my point was clear. The university needs to find  the money to upgrade the facilities and use every legal means available to attract high level recruits.  Otherwise expect the same results no matter who coaches here. 

 

 

[lawmanfan]

I remain largely satisfied with Coach Anderson and am also entirely satisfied that the "next coach" conversation is completely ridiculous.

Of course, I think that the yardstick is not the score of the most recent game we played, which is apparently a minority view around here. 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I remain largely satisfied with Coach Anderson and am also entirely satisfied that the "next coach" conversation is completely ridiculous.

Of course, I think that the yardstick is not the score of the most recent game we played, which is apparently a minority view around here. 

But on the other hand, we’re only about 3 good halves of basketball away from everyone loving him again.

Think about it, if we were to win our next two games we’d be 3-1 in BE play. Everyone would and should be happy. We’re not far away from being in a more than fine spot.

Do posters really think it’s that much of an impossibility for us to do that, that they’d rather just get a head start on a new next former sju coach?

 

[Ray Morgan]

For whatever reason, the team this season looks disjointed.  In his first 2 seasons, CMA's teams worked together well. Just like coaches don't become geniuses with 1 good win, they don't become bums because of 1 bad loss that comes with an asterisk because of Champ not playing.  Would this discussion be happening if the NCAA didn't liberalize the transfer rules? I doubt it.

 

[lawmanfan]

I remain largely satisfied with Coach Anderson and am also entirely satisfied that the "next coach" conversation is completely ridiculous.

Of course, I think that the yardstick is not the score of the most recent game we played, which is apparently a minority view around here. 

But on the other hand, we’re only about 3 good halves of basketball away from everyone loving him again.

Think about it, if we were to win our next two games we’d be 3-1 in BE play. Everyone would and should be happy. We’re not far away from being in a more than fine spot.

Do posters really think it’s that much of an impossibility for us to do that, that they’d rather just get a head start on a new next former sju coach?

 

I agree Mase, but I think there's a bigger picture issue.  As fans we want to win every game.  We aren't interested in making sacrifices for player development purposes, we don't know who is feeling under the weather, we don't know what happened in practice, we don't know what a player's mindset is, we don't know what the overall plan is and how each decision fits into that plan.

It seems to me that this staff has a clear idea of how they want to build the program and how each season fits into that plan. It isn't a coincidence that every year the team plays better towards the end of the season than it does early on, and it isn't a coincidence that each season the team is more competitive in the league than it was the year before.  [N.B.:  this season the team may be more competitive in the league without finishing with a better record than last year because last year the league was weak and this year the league is brutally strong - there's more to this than the W/L record.]

Coach Anderson seems to have a clear vision of what sort of players he wants to add to the program, how to develop them, and what sacrifices he needs to make to do that.  Sometimes the sacrifice is benching a player at the risk of losing the game because that player might have helped you or at the risk of losing the player if he gets ticked off about being benched.  Sometimes the sacrifice is leaving a player in the game or putting him in the game to be in a situation, make mistakes, play through them, and learn from them.

I am sure that Coach hopes to win every game despite the risks he is willing to take in trying to execute his longer-term vision, but he is also clearly willing to take the risk of losing a game in order to get to where he wants to go.  As fans we may hate that or we may not understand it, or we may find it frustrating, but it is a responsible way for him to go about his job.

It's sort of the same conversation about the recruiting rankings.  Wusu was a 1 star recruit.  Julian was a 2 star recruit.  Posh was a 3 star recruit.  Stanley was (I think) a 2 star recruit.  They all look like Big East players to me - after some coaching and player development by this staff.  Fans want to see that "5 star" ranking next to the latest signee because then they can anticipate that the kid will be a stud in Year 1.  Anderson is fine bringing in players with fewer stars next to their name and turning them into studs in Year 2 or 3. 

The bottom line is that our "now" fanbase is just not on the same page with the longer-term thinking coaching staff.  You would think after the last two 'now' coaches flamed out our group would appreciate having an actual plan for long-term competitiveness, but I guess fans are fans.

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

The reason for SJUs fall to mediocrity over the past 25 yrs is lack of attracting top recruits.We have had competent coaches who can’t make level 4 or 5 players out of threes. Making another coaching change is just a Hail Mary.
If the facilities are a major drawback in attracting top players and SJU would have to be aware of this thru coaches interviews there are 4 possible solutions.
1 Hire that rare coach like Pitino who can attract top players even with bad facilities. That didn’t work so that is out.
2 Conduct an alumni drive to raise the money to improve facilities. This is out because SJU alums don’t contribute.
3 Pinpoint extremely successful alums to contribute large amounts of money.That won’t work because the board of trustees  are unable to work with the possible donors.
4 Have Father Shanley direct money earmarked for other purposes to improve the facilities as an investment with the improvements resulting in better teams, more interest and more applications.
Otherwise give Anderson another year or two, then replace him with the current St Peters coach and hope for lightning in a bottle.
Not a pleasant future.

What are you basing 3 on? And please don't say Repole. I don't blame the school at all for whatever the situation is with him. SJU has many large donors but just not enough with that capability as some other schools. And unfortunately most of our high middle income affluent alumni don't donate.

We are not firing Anderson this year. Not happening. Highly doubtful we would fire him next year either. He took over a wreck of a program and the rebuild will be slow and steady with ups and downs.