Non existent would probably be a better way to describe SJU’s inside out game for what seems like forever.
2020-2021 Lineup
- Thread starter BannerMountainMan
- Start date
[quote="Paultzman" post=398925]Toros apparently in addition to his physicality and crafty interior play passes well out of post. Open shooters should benefit assuming they make shots, but an inside out game is something we have not had a lot of.[/quote]
I would assume that Cole would be the goto guy for these passes. Maybe Earlington. Champ has a very reliable mid range but not sure about outside the arc. I'm surprised that I would say that about Earlington but his development has been incredible in so many ways and he really is versatile. Love him.
I would assume that Cole would be the goto guy for these passes. Maybe Earlington. Champ has a very reliable mid range but not sure about outside the arc. I'm surprised that I would say that about Earlington but his development has been incredible in so many ways and he really is versatile. Love him.
[quote="bamafan" post=398929]If late season was any indication of his true ability I would add G Williams to that list.[/quote]
Williams has all the ability to take off on offense. He’s got a great outside shot and incredible athleticism. He just needs to put it all together. I think we will have a lot of guys including Earlington, Champs, Williams and others including the new guys, who can make open shots. Posh, wusu, Cole and Moore are all to varying levels, proficient from the outside. We have a well-rounded team and I really do think we will be able to do some damage down the stretch with our depth. Never seen a sju team this deep overalll.
Williams has all the ability to take off on offense. He’s got a great outside shot and incredible athleticism. He just needs to put it all together. I think we will have a lot of guys including Earlington, Champs, Williams and others including the new guys, who can make open shots. Posh, wusu, Cole and Moore are all to varying levels, proficient from the outside. We have a well-rounded team and I really do think we will be able to do some damage down the stretch with our depth. Never seen a sju team this deep overalll.
[quote="panther2" post=398888][quote="Monte" post=398875][quote="panther2" post=398831][quote="Matty Hoops" post=398830][quote="lawmanfan" post=398808][quote="Knight" post=398797]Other than hopes that Caraher refines and launches some 3-pointers, I also like his ability on the boards. He gets good position and is one of those guys that just gets in the way of opponents rebounding efforts.[/quote]
It always feels like Caraher should take more 3s than he's willing to put up. Think he had a little bit of a Sir Dom thing going last year where he was so focused on doing all of the other things on the court that he felt like he shouldn't be looking for his shot.
Hopefully this year the game has slowed down for him a bit and the need to defend other players on the floor will give him a little more space so he'll feel confident in launching it. Kid was a shooter before he got here, I think he was just trying too hard to do all of the other stuff.
As for the rest he hustles his ass off and sacrifices his game and his body to get loose balls, rebounds, or if he can't get the rebound to prevent his man from getting it, and is as unselfish as it gets. Only flaw is his feet are still too slow on D but not for lack of effort - you just can't teach speed is all.[/quote]
36% at Hou Baptist isn't that good. For a reason I can easily put my finger on he was billed as a good three point shooter when that really isn't his game. What he is, is a useful rotation piece. Again let's not get too excited about lower probability outcomes.[/quote]
Caraher was never billed as a 3 pt shooter. A lot of people assumed that he was because he is White. He is a good ballplayer who knows his role. His IQ makes up for his limited athleticism. Happy to have him representing St Johns.[/quote]
Have to disagree with you somewhat here my friend. David did come here with a rep as a decent 3 pt shooter and the stats at HB to back that up. While 37% isn't marksman level, it is respectable and I think we were all hoping it was something he could carry over to a higher level. Less important to me than his 25% 3 Pt shooting percentage here, is that his shot doesn't look fluid and that he has a hard time getting it off against bigger and more athlete comp. So I don't have any expectations that he's going to improve this year, but hope to be wrong. Like you, very happy to have him on the team. He's a great kid and representative of the school, and will give the team some quality minutes off the bench situationally.[/quote]
Not sure who told you that Caraher was recruited as a 3pt shooter. To my knowledge, he was recruited as a basketball player who averaged 16 pts and 7 rebs at Houston Baptist. His 2 pt percentage was .525 and .36 from 3. Last year his 2pt percentage increased to .53, while his 3pt percentage went to .25.
I think that we sometimes get caught up in trying to label players, which leads to stereotypes. White kids are shooters and Black kids are athletes.
Hopefully, Caraher will shoot the ball better this year.[/quote]
I didn't say that he was recruited as a 3 pt shooter, I said that he had a rep as someone who was a good shooter and could hit the 3. And again, his stats at HB seemed to back that up. I would share links to scouting reports and comments which led to my conclusion, including one where CMA talks about his shooting ability, but it sounds like you've got your mind made up so I won't waste my time or yours.
It always feels like Caraher should take more 3s than he's willing to put up. Think he had a little bit of a Sir Dom thing going last year where he was so focused on doing all of the other things on the court that he felt like he shouldn't be looking for his shot.
Hopefully this year the game has slowed down for him a bit and the need to defend other players on the floor will give him a little more space so he'll feel confident in launching it. Kid was a shooter before he got here, I think he was just trying too hard to do all of the other stuff.
As for the rest he hustles his ass off and sacrifices his game and his body to get loose balls, rebounds, or if he can't get the rebound to prevent his man from getting it, and is as unselfish as it gets. Only flaw is his feet are still too slow on D but not for lack of effort - you just can't teach speed is all.[/quote]
36% at Hou Baptist isn't that good. For a reason I can easily put my finger on he was billed as a good three point shooter when that really isn't his game. What he is, is a useful rotation piece. Again let's not get too excited about lower probability outcomes.[/quote]
Caraher was never billed as a 3 pt shooter. A lot of people assumed that he was because he is White. He is a good ballplayer who knows his role. His IQ makes up for his limited athleticism. Happy to have him representing St Johns.[/quote]
Have to disagree with you somewhat here my friend. David did come here with a rep as a decent 3 pt shooter and the stats at HB to back that up. While 37% isn't marksman level, it is respectable and I think we were all hoping it was something he could carry over to a higher level. Less important to me than his 25% 3 Pt shooting percentage here, is that his shot doesn't look fluid and that he has a hard time getting it off against bigger and more athlete comp. So I don't have any expectations that he's going to improve this year, but hope to be wrong. Like you, very happy to have him on the team. He's a great kid and representative of the school, and will give the team some quality minutes off the bench situationally.[/quote]
Not sure who told you that Caraher was recruited as a 3pt shooter. To my knowledge, he was recruited as a basketball player who averaged 16 pts and 7 rebs at Houston Baptist. His 2 pt percentage was .525 and .36 from 3. Last year his 2pt percentage increased to .53, while his 3pt percentage went to .25.
I think that we sometimes get caught up in trying to label players, which leads to stereotypes. White kids are shooters and Black kids are athletes.
Hopefully, Caraher will shoot the ball better this year.[/quote]
I didn't say that he was recruited as a 3 pt shooter, I said that he had a rep as someone who was a good shooter and could hit the 3. And again, his stats at HB seemed to back that up. I would share links to scouting reports and comments which led to my conclusion, including one where CMA talks about his shooting ability, but it sounds like you've got your mind made up so I won't waste my time or yours.
[quote="Not an alum" post=398949]Key w Posh will be his ability to use his left hand especially when teams force him that way. He has the body to withstand the physical big east. He has that NYC swagger that every great PG from here has. Can’t wait to watch him flourish.[/quote]
Posh isn’t bad with his left hand at all. He’s definitely a righty but doesn’t mind when forced left and I’ve not seen him have a big issue with that in games I’ve seen. He’s simply so quick and strong and runs downhill much like Dunn does.
Posh isn’t bad with his left hand at all. He’s definitely a righty but doesn’t mind when forced left and I’ve not seen him have a big issue with that in games I’ve seen. He’s simply so quick and strong and runs downhill much like Dunn does.
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=398948]As others have said. Possible Dunn starts in the beginning of the season and Posh at the end. Posh has more pure pg skills, but Dunn has experience and is versatile.[/quote]
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.
[quote="Big Red" post=398957][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=398948]As others have said. Possible Dunn starts in the beginning of the season and Posh at the end. Posh has more pure pg skills, but Dunn has experience and is versatile.[/quote]
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.[/quote]
Agreed. Dunn is also very physically mature. Something that most freshman PGs are not. Anyhow, hope both shine and CMA has a good problem to deal with. Something tells me he'll solve that problem easily.
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.[/quote]
Agreed. Dunn is also very physically mature. Something that most freshman PGs are not. Anyhow, hope both shine and CMA has a good problem to deal with. Something tells me he'll solve that problem easily.
[quote="Big Red" post=398957][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=398948]As others have said. Possible Dunn starts in the beginning of the season and Posh at the end. Posh has more pure pg skills, but Dunn has experience and is versatile.[/quote]
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.[/quote]
I agree with Red. The caveat would be that one of the reasons Anderson needed Dunn on the floor at the end of the game last year was because he wanted a PG who could create for himself and score or get fouled. That may have been partly because he lacked confidence in his other scoring options. Will be interesting to see if there is better balance or better options to scoring this year, whether that calls for the PG at the end of the game to distribute more, and who that favors.
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.[/quote]
I agree with Red. The caveat would be that one of the reasons Anderson needed Dunn on the floor at the end of the game last year was because he wanted a PG who could create for himself and score or get fouled. That may have been partly because he lacked confidence in his other scoring options. Will be interesting to see if there is better balance or better options to scoring this year, whether that calls for the PG at the end of the game to distribute more, and who that favors.
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="lawmanfan" post=398986][quote="Big Red" post=398957][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=398948]As others have said. Possible Dunn starts in the beginning of the season and Posh at the end. Posh has more pure pg skills, but Dunn has experience and is versatile.[/quote]
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.[/quote]
I agree with Red. The caveat would be that one of the reasons Anderson needed Dunn on the floor at the end of the game last year was because he wanted a PG who could create for himself and score or get fouled. That may have been partly because he lacked confidence in his other scoring options. Will be interesting to see if there is better balance or better options to scoring this year, whether that calls for the PG at the end of the game to distribute more, and who that favors.[/quote]
Dunn also had I believe 3 games where with the ball in his hands he fumbled it down inside the last minute. I know the NYE game specifically but remember it becoming a theme sadly.
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.[/quote]
I agree with Red. The caveat would be that one of the reasons Anderson needed Dunn on the floor at the end of the game last year was because he wanted a PG who could create for himself and score or get fouled. That may have been partly because he lacked confidence in his other scoring options. Will be interesting to see if there is better balance or better options to scoring this year, whether that calls for the PG at the end of the game to distribute more, and who that favors.[/quote]
Dunn also had I believe 3 games where with the ball in his hands he fumbled it down inside the last minute. I know the NYE game specifically but remember it becoming a theme sadly.
[quote="Moose" post=398990]
Dunn also had I believe 3 games where with the ball in his hands he fumbled it down inside the last minute. I know the NYE game specifically but remember it becoming a theme sadly.[/quote]
100% correct. I've never been a big fan of the "give the PG the ball and get out of the way" approach to crunch time (or what I usually refer to as "the Iverson approach"). Puts too much pressure on the PG and doesn't take advantage of the skills of the other players on the floor.
I'd have trusted Champagnie for a mid-range J or Williams for a corner 3, but at least last year there didn't seem to be any set plays for the late-possession scenario other than giving the ball to Dunn.
Hopefully there will be another tool or so in the toolbox this year for that situation.
Dunn also had I believe 3 games where with the ball in his hands he fumbled it down inside the last minute. I know the NYE game specifically but remember it becoming a theme sadly.[/quote]
100% correct. I've never been a big fan of the "give the PG the ball and get out of the way" approach to crunch time (or what I usually refer to as "the Iverson approach"). Puts too much pressure on the PG and doesn't take advantage of the skills of the other players on the floor.
I'd have trusted Champagnie for a mid-range J or Williams for a corner 3, but at least last year there didn't seem to be any set plays for the late-possession scenario other than giving the ball to Dunn.
Hopefully there will be another tool or so in the toolbox this year for that situation.
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[quote="Monte" post=398958][quote="Big Red" post=398957][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=398948]As others have said. Possible Dunn starts in the beginning of the season and Posh at the end. Posh has more pure pg skills, but Dunn has experience and is versatile.[/quote]
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.[/quote]
Agreed. Dunn is also very physically mature. Something that most freshman PGs are not. Anyhow, hope both shine and CMA has a good problem to deal with. Something tells me he'll solve that problem easily.[/quote]
That’s not an issue for Posh. He’s a tank and physically not in need of putting on mass etc.
Could happen... just not very likely. Dunn is BE tested and got better as the season went along. He’s gonna have a hell of a season. And posh will be critical either not letting things drop, or taking it to the next level coming off the bench. Hard to see CMA putting a freshman above a 5th year senior who is battle tested and was part of the closing minutes during each game he played.[/quote]
Agreed. Dunn is also very physically mature. Something that most freshman PGs are not. Anyhow, hope both shine and CMA has a good problem to deal with. Something tells me he'll solve that problem easily.[/quote]
That’s not an issue for Posh. He’s a tank and physically not in need of putting on mass etc.
The addition of Cole and Totos and the expected improvement of Williams ,Earlington and Champagnie will certainly result in a better half court offense but SJU’s best offensive weapon last year was its pressure defense and I would expect to see a lot of Dunn, Posh and Williams on the court at the same time for many minutes.
Threads like this are off-season understandable but Anderson has proven for almost two decades he will play whoever earns the minutes, even in crunch time, often relying on who is effective that day. He certainly does not decide such before a game is even played; see LJ Figueroa for confirmation.
