2020-2021 Lineup

[quote="lawmanfan" post=398826][quote="Moose" post=398823][quote="lawmanfan" post=398821]Caraher shot .364 from 3 at Houston Baptist. Given either more time/space or being more comfortable playing against better competition I think he can contribute from long range.

Agree that Dunn is probably not going to be a sharpshooter but he has to shoot enough to keep them honest.[/quote]

What would you say the 36% at Houston Baptist translates to at SJU in the BE in terms of natural regression.[/quote]

36%. The basket isn't higher or farther away.[/quote]

. . . but the defenders are larger and quicker. Has he progressed enough to even the score? Only the shadow knows. I'm betting not quite and agree with Paultzman's assessment. Perfectly acceptable for a 9th or 10th man.
 
[quote="Moose" post=398847][quote="Monte" post=398846][quote="Moose" post=398840][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=398836]If you’re gonna make the point that it’s easier to shoot a higher % at a lesser school then you must also point out the different roles. Caraher may have gotten less space and more attention at Houston Baptist. He may have also took worse shots. He may have also just shot better that season. It’s not as easy as saying, better competition = equals worse shooting.

I believe he’s a better shooter than he showed. A college
Basketball season is only so long, people have bad weeks/months/seasons. And the thing is I think he had plenty of good looks that he just didn’t make. It wasn’t as if he was getting run off the perimeter. So if he was able to make 36% of his shots at houston Baptist, why can’t he make close to that, taking good 3’s at a 4th/5th option here?[/quote]

You're correct there are lots of factors at play. But it's pretty safe to say the majority of the time a star/leading scorer on a lower level team will step up conferences and become more a role player (which by the way is perfectly fine).

He shot 3 times as many attempts at Houston Baptist than SJU. Is he somewhere in between that 36% and SJU 25%. Sure very likely. Is it 30? 28? 33? We don't know besides the numbers from last year which were at the bottom of that scale. Maybe he needs to take 150 attempts to shoot 36%. Maybe he needs volume and as a 5th option can't be so reliable from 3.

I do know that last year I saw a lot of very ugly attempts. But I also know he had some really sweet looking mid range jumpers but again nobody takes mid range jumpers anymore because its not as sexy as 3. Based on the sample size of 50 some odd attempts I'd prefer more mid range shots.[/quote]

Don't see him developing a mid range game. He doesn't have a quick release nor a high release point. That's going to make it real tough him to get his shot off, since defenses can close out on him quickly. Think his game is from perimeter, if he improves his stroke, and banging down low.[/quote]

If the defense sits back and dares him to shoot the 3 he can just step and shoot just inside the arc. He definitely did it last year and I remember saying YES MORE PLEASE ;) It's amazing how just those 2 feet can increase odds.[/quote]


Shooting a jumper inside the 3 point line. That is old school.
 
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Caraher will be the 11th-12 guy on the floor. Will be counted on for energy and HOPEFULLY timely shooting. I don’t know how he steps on the floor before the first 11 guys.
 
[quote="Big Red" post=398865]Caraher will be the 11th-12 guy on the floor. Will be counted on for energy and HOPEFULLY timely shooting. I don’t know how he steps on the floor before the first 11 guys.[/quote]

He gets on the floor because he can do a lot of things including in transition. Solid player. Glue guy.
 
Don’t get the infatuation. Nice kid. Hustles. Poor shot. Mistake and turnover prone.

Hope he improves and contributes but ?????


[quote="MCNPA" post=398866][quote="Big Red" post=398865]Caraher will be the 11th-12 guy on the floor. Will be counted on for energy and HOPEFULLY timely shooting. I don’t know how he steps on the floor before the first 11 guys.[/quote]

He gets on the floor because he can do a lot of things including in transition. Solid player. Glue guy.[/quote]
 
[quote="Big Red" post=398865]Caraher will be the 11th-12 guy on the floor. Will be counted on for energy and HOPEFULLY timely shooting. I don’t know how he steps on the floor before the first 11 guys.[/quote]
Fourth year player with 2 years playing experience is behind a redshirt freshmen guard with no playing experience (McGriff) at a position where we have 2 other players (Dunn, Posh)? Sight unseen doubt he is behind Wusu either.
 
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I'll make my starting lineup the day of the first game, why even care? On any day in the next 2 months the season could be canceled.
 
[quote="EliteBaller K" post=398872]I'll make my starting lineup the day of the first game, why even care? On any day in the next 2 months the season could be canceled.[/quote]

So, what? That doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to discuss possible lineup's.

Frankly, I don't care about discussing it, which is why I don't partake in it. But whether there's a season or not doesn't or shouldn't deter a discussion. I see no harm in discussing the matter.

If you decide to wait till a game is played, then fine. That's your prerogative.
 
[quote="panther2" post=398831][quote="Matty Hoops" post=398830][quote="lawmanfan" post=398808][quote="Knight" post=398797]Other than hopes that Caraher refines and launches some 3-pointers, I also like his ability on the boards. He gets good position and is one of those guys that just gets in the way of opponents rebounding efforts.[/quote]

It always feels like Caraher should take more 3s than he's willing to put up. Think he had a little bit of a Sir Dom thing going last year where he was so focused on doing all of the other things on the court that he felt like he shouldn't be looking for his shot.

Hopefully this year the game has slowed down for him a bit and the need to defend other players on the floor will give him a little more space so he'll feel confident in launching it. Kid was a shooter before he got here, I think he was just trying too hard to do all of the other stuff.

As for the rest he hustles his ass off and sacrifices his game and his body to get loose balls, rebounds, or if he can't get the rebound to prevent his man from getting it, and is as unselfish as it gets. Only flaw is his feet are still too slow on D but not for lack of effort - you just can't teach speed is all.[/quote]

36% at Hou Baptist isn't that good. For a reason I can easily put my finger on he was billed as a good three point shooter when that really isn't his game. What he is, is a useful rotation piece. Again let's not get too excited about lower probability outcomes.[/quote]




Caraher was never billed as a 3 pt shooter. A lot of people assumed that he was because he is White. He is a good ballplayer who knows his role. His IQ makes up for his limited athleticism. Happy to have him representing St Johns.[/quote]

Have to disagree with you somewhat here my friend. David did come here with a rep as a decent 3 pt shooter and the stats at HB to back that up. While 37% isn't marksman level, it is respectable and I think we were all hoping it was something he could carry over to a higher level. Less important to me than his 25% 3 Pt shooting percentage here, is that his shot doesn't look fluid and that he has a hard time getting it off against bigger and more athlete comp. So I don't have any expectations that he's going to improve this year, but hope to be wrong. Like you, very happy to have him on the team. He's a great kid and representative of the school, and will give the team some quality minutes off the bench situationally.
 
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[quote="redmanwest" post=398867]Don’t get the infatuation. Nice kid. Hustles. Poor shot. Mistake and turnover prone.

Hope he improves and contributes but ?????


[quote="MCNPA" post=398866][quote="Big Red" post=398865]Caraher will be the 11th-12 guy on the floor. Will be counted on for energy and HOPEFULLY timely shooting. I don’t know how he steps on the floor before the first 11 guys.[/quote]

He gets on the floor because he can do a lot of things including in transition. Solid player. Glue guy.[/quote][/quote]

He had 19 TOs last year.

Also worth noting he is without a doubt the best on the team at moving without the ball. We did an awful job finding him on cuts, hopefully posh and McGriff can help there.
 
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I’ve read all the posts about who should start , what our strengths and weaknesses are etc. I agree with a lot of it. But, one thing I will say is that regardless of who starts and what our strengths and weaknesses are , one thing you can’t overlook is a teams heart and toughness. I think this team has a lot of both. We have some tough kids on this team. Earlington, Williams, Champagnie, Toro, Dunn , Posh from what I hear is tough as nails kid. Even Caraher plays tough. If Cole and Moore have that kind of motor all the better. But, I think this team will just tough out a lot of wins this year. Especially, since CMA has Full roster to fully implement his style. Just my humble opinion.
 
This time last year many here thought:
-Earlington was a career bench warmer/transfer candidate.
-Ian Steere was capable of averaging a double-double.
-Julian Champangie would get only garbage minutes.
-And LJ and Mustapha could be all-BE candidates.
So, you know............
 
[quote="Monte" post=398875][quote="panther2" post=398831][quote="Matty Hoops" post=398830][quote="lawmanfan" post=398808][quote="Knight" post=398797]Other than hopes that Caraher refines and launches some 3-pointers, I also like his ability on the boards. He gets good position and is one of those guys that just gets in the way of opponents rebounding efforts.[/quote]

It always feels like Caraher should take more 3s than he's willing to put up. Think he had a little bit of a Sir Dom thing going last year where he was so focused on doing all of the other things on the court that he felt like he shouldn't be looking for his shot.

Hopefully this year the game has slowed down for him a bit and the need to defend other players on the floor will give him a little more space so he'll feel confident in launching it. Kid was a shooter before he got here, I think he was just trying too hard to do all of the other stuff.

As for the rest he hustles his ass off and sacrifices his game and his body to get loose balls, rebounds, or if he can't get the rebound to prevent his man from getting it, and is as unselfish as it gets. Only flaw is his feet are still too slow on D but not for lack of effort - you just can't teach speed is all.[/quote]

36% at Hou Baptist isn't that good. For a reason I can easily put my finger on he was billed as a good three point shooter when that really isn't his game. What he is, is a useful rotation piece. Again let's not get too excited about lower probability outcomes.[/quote]




Caraher was never billed as a 3 pt shooter. A lot of people assumed that he was because he is White. He is a good ballplayer who knows his role. His IQ makes up for his limited athleticism. Happy to have him representing St Johns.[/quote]

Have to disagree with you somewhat here my friend. David did come here with a rep as a decent 3 pt shooter and the stats at HB to back that up. While 37% isn't marksman level, it is respectable and I think we were all hoping it was something he could carry over to a higher level. Less important to me than his 25% 3 Pt shooting percentage here, is that his shot doesn't look fluid and that he has a hard time getting it off against bigger and more athlete comp. So I don't have any expectations that he's going to improve this year, but hope to be wrong. Like you, very happy to have him on the team. He's a great kid and representative of the school, and will give the team some quality minutes off the bench situationally.[/quote]



Not sure who told you that Caraher was recruited as a 3pt shooter. To my knowledge, he was recruited as a basketball player who averaged 16 pts and 7 rebs at Houston Baptist. His 2 pt percentage was .525 and .36 from 3. Last year his 2pt percentage increased to .53, while his 3pt percentage went to .25.

I think that we sometimes get caught up in trying to label players, which leads to stereotypes. White kids are shooters and Black kids are athletes.

Hopefully, Caraher will shoot the ball better this year.
 
[quote="MainMan" post=398885]This time last year many here thought:
-Earlington was a career bench warmer/transfer candidate.
-Ian Steere was capable of averaging a double-double.
-Julian Champangie would get only garbage minutes.
-And LJ and Mustapha could be all-BE candidates.
So, you know............[/quote]

-I saw something in Earlington in the garbage time minutes he got under money. But i did not think he would have all big east type talent.
-I never thought steere would do much
-agree on Champy
-I thought LJ would have a great year. boy was I wrong. I lost faith in heron after the complete debacle he had against Az St in the play in game. I was not expecting him to be anything special.
 
I get the opinion that Caraher's minutes will likely decrease this year with a deeper squad. During the last 5 or 6 games of our schedule when he averaged around 20 minutes per game, we were basically an 8 man team with Caraher & Sears our 7th and 8th men. This year we go 12 deep and the theory is Caraher's deficiency in foot speed may put him at the end of the rotation. In part that will depend on how ready for prime time guys like Moore, Wusu & McGriff are, because coach knows that Caraher can play in the Big East now and he brings a lot of good things to the table especially movement.

I do think there is reason to believe his three point shooting can improve to somewhere between 30-35%. He took more threes as a frosh than LJ did his first year with us and shot a very respectable 36% in a large sample size. Last year, he was playing far less and seemed to hesitate when taking threes; I took that as partly the game speeding up for him but also his inability to relax in limited minutes. I expect that with a year of getting used to Big East play, he will get back to being a decent (not great) three point shooter.
I like Caraher's contributions and imho if he winds up being 10th - 12th man, we will have a very good team. We'll see.
 
Coach Anderson seems to really like him. He will get his minutes.
 
Obviously very different players but I actually think Earlington and Caraher share a weird similarity in their games in that they both manage to get points off of messy, broken plays. They're both the type of gritty guys who somehow come out from a scrum under the basket with the ball and get a quick put back or they're weirdly in the right place to catch an airball and go right back up with it. They stay active. I always appreciate guys that don't just camp out at the three point line and wave their arms like they're always open. Unless you've been told to clear out, be active and make something happen.
 
Favorite Earlington play was his first year against Rutgers. At foul line, misses - no one else paying attention and gets the rebound and lays it in.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=398892]I get the opinion that Caraher's minutes will likely decrease this year with a deeper squad. During the last 5 or 6 games of our schedule when he averaged around 20 minutes per game, we were basically an 8 man team with Caraher & Sears our 7th and 8th men. This year we go 12 deep and the theory is Caraher's deficiency in foot speed may put him at the end of the rotation. In part that will depend on how ready for prime time guys like Moore, Wusu & McGriff are, because coach knows that Caraher can play in the Big East now and he brings a lot of good things to the table especially movement.

I do think there is reason to believe his three point shooting can improve to somewhere between 30-35%. He took more threes as a frosh than LJ did his first year with us and shot a very respectable 36% in a large sample size. Last year, he was playing far less and seemed to hesitate when taking threes; I took that as partly the game speeding up for him but also his inability to relax in limited minutes. I expect that with a year of getting used to Big East play, he will get back to being a decent (not great) three point shooter.
I like Caraher's contributions and imho if he winds up being 10th - 12th man, we will have a very good team. We'll see.[/quote]

Unfortunate but they’re gonna have to decrease. He will have less overall maybe but some games he will be integral. We have a lot more talent and depth this year: he will be a part of a very tough and I think moderately successful sju team.
 
Toro apparently in addition to his physicality and crafty interior play passes well out of post. Open shooters should benefit assuming they make shots, but an inside out game is something we have not had a lot of.
 
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