2017 Transfers
- Thread starter DaTiger
- Start date
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
I think we lose out on the chance to recruit some kids because of the academic profile but part of that is the fact that its hard to sell the advantges of going to school in NY because as you said the school is in Queens and not very close to a subway. Great post, although I consider Amar as more of a Bosnian than an Italian.
In all seriousness, what are the advantages of going to school in NY? Leave aside the basketball end for a minute. What does NY offer the average college student that any other metropolitan campus doesn't? There are bars everywhere. There's a hook up culture everywhere. There's instant communication and information via your phone (aka pornography) everywhere. Is there something else college students care about?
NY is no longer the center of the universe in news and broadcasting. Johnny Carson left a long time ago. The industry has moved west and what hasn't has been [strike]disbursed[/strike] dispersed via the internet. Print media is dying and what isn't dead is a joke: led by the the NY Times, NY newspapers are a laughingstock. NY Radio used to have Jean Shepard and Bob Grant and W NNNNNNNN BC. Now every moron in the world has a podcast. Reruns of the Honeymooners on at midnight on Channel 11 used to have more viewers than CNN has today in prime time. Because there's more than five channels now. Location used to be important, that's why a mediocre baseball player like Joe Dimaggio is mentioned in the same breath as a god like Willie Mays. Because he played in NY. If Ted Williams had played in NY his mummified corpse would be on display in center field, because he made Joe Dimaggio look like Horace Clarke. If he'd played for the St Louis Browns do you think Dimaggio would having been banging Marilyn Monroe? I think not.
NY's cultural life is somewhere between robust and nonpareil. But how much of it - the opera, Broadway, the Village Gate, the Met - do college kids care about. NY has a plethora of culinary wonderments at which no college kid can afford to eat. It's a good sports town, it's got the Garden, I get that, but so is Tampa a good sports town. It's diverse; it's welcoming to marginalized and other-ed peoples, but isn't every college campus welcoming to every special little snowflake that comes down the pike, no matter how confused, deformed or deranged. Except political conservatives obviously.
On the other hand NY's expensive and congested, it has four seasons, and parts of it are ugly in ways that only beautiful things can be grotesque.
Now throw the basketball in. A long suffering program in a good conference with middling facilities and the worst fan base in all of sports, offset by the staff's cachet, which may or may not translate into the sweet smell of success. I'm surprised anyone commits at all.
Class of 72
Active member
Andrew, our academic profile should actually help with most recruits. The really talented ones today are likely to leave for the pros after a couple of seasons. Most don't have the need or time for Duke or Berkley level coursework. Not a knock on the recruits or any schools but the recent past doesn't validate that academics plays an important role.
Our Hillcrest students don't need to worry about the subject way. Out of state kids take a free shuttle bus to the LIRR station for a quick 25 minute ride into the "city".
Amar is a Bosnian Italian and very proud of it.
Fun
Please give Joe DiMaggio a break - unless you were commenting by tongue in cheek - a superb overall athlete who probably hit 500 shots (doubles and fly ball outs) to the 457 left center to - 460 foot center field dimensions! Right handed batters had significant disadvantages...Williams, Mays, DiMaggio all great but playing in way different ball fields.
Have a good night
Let's go St. John's!
Let's go Sid W!
Andrew, our academic profile should actually help with most recruits. The really talented ones today are likely to leave for the pros after a couple of seasons. Most don't have the need or time for Duke or Berkley level coursework. Not a knock on the recruits or any schools but the recent past doesn't validate that academics plays an important role.
Our Hillcrest students don't need to worry about the subject way. Out of state kids take a free shuttle bus to the LIRR station for a quick 25 minute ride into the "city".
Amar is a Bosnian Italian and very proud of it.
I never thought of it that way.
Class of 72
Active member
We all are pretty sure that the staff is reaching out. We even hosted a 7 footer whom " insiders" claimed was only a backup plan. Of course it begs the question "a backup to what or whom" that 3 available scholarships can't seem to accommodate?
Calling out fans for asking WTF is going on is boorish and condescending. This is a forum to share opinions and ask pertinent questions about the basketball program. If the same question is asked many times it is likely because no one has ventured a satisfactory answer for some. If people share the same opinions doesn't make them any more annoying than the fans who continously disagree with that opinion.
There are only a couple of experts that belong to this forum that are very "very" close to the program and coaches and they never post. Everyone else is sharing information second hand. News starved fans will take what they can get and given some of our ages, we will tend to repeat ourselves. So, please be patient.
First, I thought you had boorish and fun had condescending all wrapped up in most people's eyes. Glad I could join the party. Better than being thought of as ignorant and delusional.
I will only state that there's a difference between stating folks uninformed opinions and posing uninformed assumptions as fact. I get it, 99% of the board is uninformed, and that's not a problem. Making uninformed factual assumptions is the problem with me. SKnortz repeating the question obviously assumes as fact that the staff "don't reach out to every eligible transfer". I called him out because he has shared nothing to back up how he came to that assumption yet keeps stating it repeatedly as if its so.
Regarding recruiting difficulties it probably has less to do with effort and more to do with the mix of a low profile university that still, maybe undeservedly, has a commuter school reputation with a low academic profile, in a part of town that only people from Queens consider New York City, with an inexperienced coaching staff that pins much of its hopes on a legend that kids today have never heard of is not going to get serious attention from every possible recruit compared to a large number of other schools in same game.
I understand many of those comments may not be fair but I used them to point out that they all hold more factual weight than the assumption that the staff isn't reaching out to all eligible transfers. See how that works.
Yet with all those negatives taken into account, the staff have actually done a pretty good job stocking the roster with quality players from the 1-4. The top 7 of the roster are all either top 100 recruits, JC AAs and/or transfers who at least got some time as frosh/sophs at major college programs. Then there's Fred and Amar who at least are Italian, what's not to love? The one glaring exception being a serviceable big to replace Sima/Willams. I just take exception to the folks who claim this shortfall is due to lack of trying.
PS everyone's hung up on 3 available scholarships. However, until Sima transferred they had -1 scholarship available for 1718, until Brown was arrested they had 0, that was in January. Until Ellison and Williams transferred at the end of March they only had one but by they time they got that one for the Class of '17 and were able to truthfully say they had rides to give it was pretty much over. The transfer game was the great hope and they appear to have gotten at least one good one. And now they look to be getting another top 100 kid late in the game. But the grad transfer big, like you said and everyone agrees, is where there seems to have been the biggest let down. I kind of believe the staff knows that better than any of us but really can 't say that publicly.
You got me dead to rights on the boorish thing.
I can be uncouth and coarse but I grew up in Brooklyn and the corporal punishment I endured from the nuns has left lasting psychological scars.
But, it also thickened my skin and very little gets under it. As for condescending, Fun does it as de rigueur or he wouldn't be Fun. It's his Shtick. When some others do it they target particular people and their views because they think their sh*t don't stink. Now, when you say all the way from sunny southern California,
"Regarding recruiting difficulties it probably has less to do with effort and more to do with the mix of a low profile university that still, maybe undeservedly, has a commuter school reputation with a low academic profile, in a part of town that only people from Queens consider New York City, with an inexperienced coaching staff that pins much of its hopes on a legend that kids today have never heard of is not going to get serious attention from every possible recruit compared to a large number of other schools in same game".
That's where I get rough with atheists on this forum. You, and many others here with a love-hate relationship with St. John's are the ones that keep going back to your unhappy years in college when you keep harping the commuter school reputation. Having had young relatives who dormed at the school I assure you that the 3,000 kids living on campus and in university sponsored housing enjoy all the benefits of a collegiate atmosphere. Granted Hillcrest is not La Jolla or Coral Gables but it certainly is no worse than Spokane, Waco, Syracuse, Milwaukee, or Memphis. Last I checked Gonzaga, the Orange or Baylor have had no problem attracting recruits.
No, we are not a high profile academic institution like Kentucky, Kansas, or Louisville but they seemingly attract the top basketball recruits annually.
As for the never-ending Queens bashing, you "assume" that recruits are influenced by the fact that St. John's is not located in Times Square and would prefer to be in Waco and drink Dr Pepper Floats and go paddle-boarding on the Brazos.
The only thing you got partly right is the inexperienced staff issue which happens to have two consecutive losing seasons to boast about with recruits. However, even a recruit that is moronic knows how to Google Chris Mullin and Mitch Richmond. Would you assume that they are more familiar with names like Andy Enfield or Jim Larranaga?
Recruits want to go to winning programs and thus impress their friends and hope they play a role in keeping the winning program winning. They are teens and impressionable. John Calipari turned Memphis into every 5 star recruits' dream destination from 2001 to 2009 even though, imo, Memphis is a sh*t hole with rampant crime, especially black on black, a backwards Delta culture and where the term multicultural doesn't exist.
As every fan here understands, it is our losing basketball "tradition" that influences recruits. As for Manhattan, our players spend mucho time there and have no problem getting to the Big Apple. Their sole focus during the basketball season is "basketball" and they have as good facilities as Villanova or Gonzaga, two schools that are yard sticks for us.
All the other excuses are real old and getting older.
Class of 72
Active member
Andrew, our academic profile should actually help with most recruits. The really talented ones today are likely to leave for the pros after a couple of seasons. Most don't have the need or time for Duke or Berkley level coursework. Not a knock on the recruits or any schools but the recent past doesn't validate that academics plays an important role.
Our Hillcrest students don't need to worry about the subway way. Out of state kids take a free shuttle bus to the LIRR station for a quick 25 minute ride into the "city".
Amar is a Bosnian Italian and very proud of it.
I never thought of it that way.
No problem.
Start spreadin' the news, I'm leavin' today
I want to be a part of it, New York, New York
These vagabond shoes are longing to stray
Right through the very heart of it, New York, New York
I want to wake up in a city that doesn't sleep
And find I'm king of the hill, top of the heap
These little town blues are melting away
I'll make a brand new start of it, in old New York
If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere
It's up to you , New York, New York
New York, New York
I want to wake up in a city that never sleeps
And find I'm A-number-one, top of the list,
King of the hill, A-number-one
These little town blues are melting away
I'm gonna make a brand new start of it in old New York
A-a-a-nd if I can make it there, I'm gonna make it anywhere
It's up to you, New York, New York
New York
I asked why a kid in 2017 would want to go to college in Queens and you quote a 50 year old song written by a guy from Missouri made famous by a long dead big band singer from Jersey. Wichita Lineman is about the greatest song ever written but it's not a reason to go to school in Kansas.
Class of 72
Active member
Unless it's Manhattan, Kansas.
We all are pretty sure that the staff is reaching out. We even hosted a 7 footer whom " insiders" claimed was only a backup plan. Of course it begs the question "a backup to what or whom" that 3 available scholarships can't seem to accommodate?
Calling out fans for asking WTF is going on is boorish and condescending. This is a forum to share opinions and ask pertinent questions about the basketball program. If the same question is asked many times it is likely because no one has ventured a satisfactory answer for some. If people share the same opinions doesn't make them any more annoying than the fans who continously disagree with that opinion.
There are only a couple of experts that belong to this forum that are very "very" close to the program and coaches and they never post. Everyone else is sharing information second hand. News starved fans will take what they can get and given some of our ages, we will tend to repeat ourselves. So, please be patient.
First, I thought you had boorish and fun had condescending all wrapped up in most people's eyes. Glad I could join the party. Better than being thought of as ignorant and delusional.
I will only state that there's a difference between stating folks uninformed opinions and posing uninformed assumptions as fact. I get it, 99% of the board is uninformed, and that's not a problem. Making uninformed factual assumptions is the problem with me. SKnortz repeating the question obviously assumes as fact that the staff "don't reach out to every eligible transfer". I called him out because he has shared nothing to back up how he came to that assumption yet keeps stating it repeatedly as if its so.
Regarding recruiting difficulties it probably has less to do with effort and more to do with the mix of a low profile university that still, maybe undeservedly, has a commuter school reputation with a low academic profile, in a part of town that only people from Queens consider New York City, with an inexperienced coaching staff that pins much of its hopes on a legend that kids today have never heard of is not going to get serious attention from every possible recruit compared to a large number of other schools in same game.
I understand many of those comments may not be fair but I used them to point out that they all hold more factual weight than the assumption that the staff isn't reaching out to all eligible transfers. See how that works.
Yet with all those negatives taken into account, the staff have actually done a pretty good job stocking the roster with quality players from the 1-4. The top 7 of the roster are all either top 100 recruits, JC AAs and/or transfers who at least got some time as frosh/sophs at major college programs. Then there's Fred and Amar who at least are Italian, what's not to love? The one glaring exception being a serviceable big to replace Sima/Willams. I just take exception to the folks who claim this shortfall is due to lack of trying.
PS everyone's hung up on 3 available scholarships. However, until Sima transferred they had -1 scholarship available for 1718, until Brown was arrested they had 0, that was in January. Until Ellison and Williams transferred at the end of March they only had one but by they time they got that one for the Class of '17 and were able to truthfully say they had rides to give it was pretty much over. The transfer game was the great hope and they appear to have gotten at least one good one. And now they look to be getting another top 100 kid late in the game. But the grad transfer big, like you said and everyone agrees, is where there seems to have been the biggest let down. I kind of believe the staff knows that better than any of us but really can 't say that publicly.
You got me dead to rights on the boorish thing.
I can be uncouth and coarse but I grew up in Brooklyn and the corporal punishment I endured from the nuns has left lasting psychological scars.
Now, when you say all the way from sunny southern California,
"Regarding recruiting difficulties it probably has less to do with effort and more to do with the mix of a low profile university that still, maybe undeservedly, has a commuter school reputation with a low academic profile, in a part of town that only people from Queens consider New York City, with an inexperienced coaching staff that pins much of its hopes on a legend that kids today have never heard of is not going to get serious attention from every possible recruit compared to a large number of other schools in same game".
That's where I get rough with atheists on this forum. You, and many others here with a love-hate relationship with St. John's are the ones that keep going back to your unhappy years in college when you keep harping the commuter school reputation. Having had young relatives who dormed at the school I assure you that the 3,000 kids living on campus and in university sponsored housing enjoy all the benefits of a collegiate atmosphere. Granted Hillcrest is not La Jolla or Coral Gables but it certainly is no worse than Spokane, Waco, Syracuse, Milwaukee, or Memphis. Last I checked Gonzaga, the Orange or Baylor have had no problem attracting recruits.
No, we are not a high profile academic institution like Kentucky, Kansas, or Louisville but they seemingly attract the top basketball recruits annually.
As for the never-ending Queens bashing, you "assume" that recruits are influenced by the fact that St. John's is not located in Times Square and would prefer to be in Waco and drink Dr Pepper Floats and go paddle-boarding on the Brazos.
The only thing you got partly right is the inexperienced staff issue which happens to have two consecutive losing seasons to boast about with recruits. However, even a recruit that is moronic knows how to Google Chris Mullin and Mitch Richmond. Would you assume that they are more familiar with names like Andy Enfield or Jim Larranaga?
Recruits want to go to winning programs and thus impress their friends and hope they play a role in keeping the winning program winning. They are teens and impressionable. John Calipari turned Memphis into every 5 star recruits' dream destination from 2001 to 2009 even though, imo, Memphis is a sh*t hole with rampant crime, especially black on black, a backwards Delta culture and where the term multicultural doesn't exist.
As every fan here understands, it is our losing basketball "tradition" that influences recruits. As for Manhattan, our players spend mucho time there and have no problem getting to the Big Apple. Their sole focus during the basketball season is "basketball" and they have as good facilities as Villanova or Gonzaga, two schools that are yard sticks for us.
All the other excuses are real old and getting older.
There is so much delusion in here I don't know where to start, so I won't. PS I was very happy in college, I didn't go to St. Johns though, as I thought you knew. I don't really GAF about the school at all, just the team. However, I'm sure all your points are correct which explains the 25 years of excellence that have followed Louie's retirement.
My hatred for Italians aside, Joe Dimaggio was not fit to hold Ted Williams jock strap. Statistically he compares favorably to such greats as Larry Walker and Ellis Burke, neither of whom were in danger of seeing Marilyn Monroe naked. On the other hand I did see JD at Dinky Donuts once and he was a very handsome man.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
And throw some self mortification in there as well!
