We disagree on roster construction. We need at least 4 “bigs” PF/centers.
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The tape doesn’t do anything for me but the numbers don’t tell me it’s an obvious no. Still only a sophomore big with experience starting in a HM conference (RIP). Obvious pedigree and size but some scary health concerns. His blocks dropped significantly from fresh to soph, I wonder if thats got anything to do with his health.
He's gotten over 20 minutes in 7 games so far in his career. That's games against UCLA, Colorado, Wash st. (2x), ASU, Oregon St. & Long Beach.
In those 7 games his averages are
24 min
11.1 pts
6.1 rebs
1.4 blocks
64% FG
77% FT
I could be talked into Zuby, Him, and Maker if we really bolstered the rest of the roster.
He's gotten over 20 minutes in 7 games so far in his career. That's games against UCLA, Colorado, Wash st. (2x), ASU, Oregon St. & Long Beach.
In those 7 games his averages are
24 min
11.1 pts
6.1 rebs
1.4 blocks
64% FG
77% FT
I could be talked into Zuby, Him, and Maker if we really bolstered the rest of the roster.
SJU14
Well-known member
I'm sure Eric can also chime in on his experience but based off my experience it depends on the nature of his low back injury. If it was a traumatic injury and the surgery helped resolve his symptoms then he should be good to go. If it's a chronic issue then not so positive his symptoms are 100% resolved. The fact that he did come back after the surgery and play is a good sign.
I won’t just be Zuby and Maker if add Vince also. Vince is not a hamburger, he was a Top 30 recruit.
Vince is a center. Calling him a stretch 4 is, well, a big stretch. If he logs a single minute at the 4 I would be absolutely shocked.
Zuby and Samson Johnson were the best athletes with the best feet I saw all season at 5 and Pitino never once played Zuby at the 4 — although he I think he does some this year.
We are sleeping on Zuby big time. He will be a Big East caliber starting center and our biggest recruiting challenge next year will be retaining him, Wilcher, and Dunlap.
Am I willing to bet the season on that? No. That’s why we are involved with Williams and Iwuchukwu.
Cliff is a different discussion entirely.
Looks like exactly what Pitino is looking for.
Completely agree. But what’s kinda weird is Rick played 7-1 Osborn Shema next to Nelly Joespeh for 26 minutes. He did take 2 threes a game tho and In the Maac you can definitely get away with it and use the size advantage but it does show some willingness to play two bigs next to eachother
SJUDave
Well-known member
I'm sorry but this is SO stupid. What team ISN'T trying to make a pitch to get a prospect they love commit before they leave? Like no shit.
I know Trilly has said he puts "everything" he hears in the discord, but the problem with that is that it's watered down so much info, and so much of it is nonsense and bs. And people just take it as gospel and obsess over it.
There is no bigger anomaly in Pitino’s coaching career than Shima.
It is worth noting, though, that Pitino inherited Shima when he took over. It wasn’t a kid he went out and recruited. Shima is a forward IMO in spite of his height.
Silly Donovan
Well-known member
According to Pitino, he’s looking to play Zuby more at the next season.
I'm trying to figure out what players exceeded what they did the year before. I'd even argue some weren't as good.
SJUDave
Well-known member
I'll play along and jump the gun for the sake of the argument because I see a lot of people all over saying similar things.
IF we get a commitment from Vince Iwuchukwu, I find it incredibly hard to believe they don't add another center / formidable big. Think about the roster construction. Zuby is going to alternate between the 4 and 5 this year, with a strong emphasis on the 4. He's already working on that. Maker is a 7'1 freshman that probably won't play much all year.
Think back to what Rick talked about all year: St. John's was thin upfront. They only had Joel and Zuby. It doesn't make sense to me that they would essentially go into the season with the same "problem"
ESPECIALLY when you can go over the 13 roster number like they did last year.
For the sake of this argument, lets say Vince commits. That leaves with four or five spots to fill. Look at this with the kind of voids that are left
Guards - Wilcher, Lefty
Wings/Forwards - Luis, Dunlap, Glover, Ayo
Bigs - Vince/Zuby/Maker
Those spots feel like they should be:
1. On ball guard likely older point guard to help run the offense. You'll want 10pts out of this position
2. HIGH end scoring guard who can also be on the ball (Dingle coming back would fill this void but would still take up a spot)
3. Legit 6'8-6'9 Power Forward who can shoot (Ledlum I guess fills this void but again same issue as last year undersize and Rick not happy with it so why do it again. I would bring Ledlum back but change his role)
4. Scoring wing
5. Scoring big (Vince has not developed into a starting caliber center yet. He played 15 min per game, and plagued with some injury issues from the cardiac issue to the back surgery. Can he get there given his pedigree and freakish athleticism hell yea. That's why he was a five star prospect with every blue blood after him. Does he fit what Rick looks for in a big, hell yea - supreme athlete, long, defensively locking down the paint and quick enough to switch. But are you comfortable with him as your starting center right away? I don't know. Plus given his injury history, you'll need insurance besides Zuby...asking that to be a freshman in Maker goes against what Pitino has shown for 40 years.
I think he's a very very exciting and interesting potential addition, but it shouldn't take St. John's out of the big market from a logistics perspective. But hey, what do I know? Not much just spit balling on a Thursday morning.
IF we get a commitment from Vince Iwuchukwu, I find it incredibly hard to believe they don't add another center / formidable big. Think about the roster construction. Zuby is going to alternate between the 4 and 5 this year, with a strong emphasis on the 4. He's already working on that. Maker is a 7'1 freshman that probably won't play much all year.
Think back to what Rick talked about all year: St. John's was thin upfront. They only had Joel and Zuby. It doesn't make sense to me that they would essentially go into the season with the same "problem"
ESPECIALLY when you can go over the 13 roster number like they did last year.
For the sake of this argument, lets say Vince commits. That leaves with four or five spots to fill. Look at this with the kind of voids that are left
Guards - Wilcher, Lefty
Wings/Forwards - Luis, Dunlap, Glover, Ayo
Bigs - Vince/Zuby/Maker
Those spots feel like they should be:
1. On ball guard likely older point guard to help run the offense. You'll want 10pts out of this position
2. HIGH end scoring guard who can also be on the ball (Dingle coming back would fill this void but would still take up a spot)
3. Legit 6'8-6'9 Power Forward who can shoot (Ledlum I guess fills this void but again same issue as last year undersize and Rick not happy with it so why do it again. I would bring Ledlum back but change his role)
4. Scoring wing
5. Scoring big (Vince has not developed into a starting caliber center yet. He played 15 min per game, and plagued with some injury issues from the cardiac issue to the back surgery. Can he get there given his pedigree and freakish athleticism hell yea. That's why he was a five star prospect with every blue blood after him. Does he fit what Rick looks for in a big, hell yea - supreme athlete, long, defensively locking down the paint and quick enough to switch. But are you comfortable with him as your starting center right away? I don't know. Plus given his injury history, you'll need insurance besides Zuby...asking that to be a freshman in Maker goes against what Pitino has shown for 40 years.
I think he's a very very exciting and interesting potential addition, but it shouldn't take St. John's out of the big market from a logistics perspective. But hey, what do I know? Not much just spit balling on a Thursday morning.
MugCostanza
Well-known member
No idea what the deal was with the Iwuchukwu visit. My guess it's a combination of he's a backup backup backup plan in case the staff whiffs on the Cliffs/Amaris of the world and them working him out hoping to like him enough to take him as the cheap option to free up money for elsewhere.
Clearly the upside is there but it's far from certain he'll ever reach his full potential. In year 2 at USC he was a good but not great rebounder and had the same block rate as 6'6 Chris Ledlum. Also doesn't offer much offensively outside of the typical easy putbacks and dump offs. I'd be all for him in a 12-15 min per game if we needed a Zuby replacement, not crazy about them pairing together though.
Clearly the upside is there but it's far from certain he'll ever reach his full potential. In year 2 at USC he was a good but not great rebounder and had the same block rate as 6'6 Chris Ledlum. Also doesn't offer much offensively outside of the typical easy putbacks and dump offs. I'd be all for him in a 12-15 min per game if we needed a Zuby replacement, not crazy about them pairing together though.
Zuby for sure and I’d argue Jenkins given his making 2nd team all league after a big jump up in level of competition.
I like Zuby a lot as a player. He’s still too foul prone and that will need to improve but , the positives exceed the Negatives .
I don’t know why but , to me he always looks a little undersized to be guarding 7 footers but , time will tell. I guess he’s listed at 6’9” but , how accurate is that ?
He’s a terrific shot blocker and rebounder , offense needs to improve and likely will .
He will be counted on to deliver a lot next season .
guinness77
Well-known member
Only on this site can I hear for years about how we don’t have enough bigs and now we might have “too many bigs.” Please, make it make sense.
Agree with all you said about chronic vs traumatic and healing upon surgery.
To me backs are the toughest things to predict just doing normal activities on a daily basis. Throw in the beating of the body working out and playing a physical sport and then you hope will be ok.
I haven’t familiarized myself with this player and his injury/surgery yet but yea good sign he has come back to play and hopefully without symptoms.
Without being just a $marta$$, you need to define “exceeded” because roles obviously change, circumstances change. Ledlum is a great example, is he judged trying to get his feet comfortable early, then probably continuing to play less than 100%, then becoming a very positive player late, where he became a player not looking to score as much but one willing to put on a hard hat.
The other problem in comparing years is Pitino’s unfamiliarity with the players and the up and down minutes and roles they had. Was Dingle thrown off his game by possibly being asked to focus more on defense? Did Alleyne ever get comfortable with a role? Etc., etc…….
Tough year all around IMO for both Pitino and staff and the players. They eventually got it together but……………