That rule went down with the Arizona
WWII, Truman, and the bomb
- Thread starter mjmaherjr
- Start date
The Arizona was built at the
Brooklyn Navy Yard.
“ Remember Pearl Harbor” as the song goes.
What a great reference. I really appreciate your military service, West Point education, and great knowledge.
My father worked stateside as a welder in the Navy yard, but the one in NJ. For years I thought he had worked in Brooklyn, but recently learned he was at the lesser known one in NJ. With uncles who saw action in Europe, another became a pilot, and still another recently deceased, a 17 year old Merchant Marine dangerously bringing critical supplies to troops, as a kid was slightly embarrassed by my father's service.
The Brooklyn and NJ Navy yards produced ships essential for the war effort at unbelievable breackneck speed. Without their effort we don't win.
Like many military veterans returning from WWII, their careers were not often their own choice. My father became a welder, an iron worker, who helped build the World Trade Center, Verrazano Bridge, and other iconic NY structures. The oldest male, his youngest sinlings became a commercial airline pilot and another one of the firstvfemale executives in the phone company. He was at least as smart as each and likely smarter.
Thanks SS&G for the reference that sparked all that. We are what we are because of the generation before us.
pearl harbor week..
while waiting in line for a tourist event in san juan, PR, I noticed a non senior citizen wearing a pearl harbor survivor hat. I asked him about it. he said he was 15 on that day of infamy. he and his fellow classmates were each given a rifle and a sector of a beach. they were to be the first line of defense for the upcoming japanese invasion of hawaii. my father fought at le shima/okinawa and was on a troop ship off tokyo bay when truman wisely dropped the atomic bomb. countless American and japanese lives were saved by trumans action. I have visited the arizona memorial. a very moving experience.
now back to the destruction of Sacred Heart.....
while waiting in line for a tourist event in san juan, PR, I noticed a non senior citizen wearing a pearl harbor survivor hat. I asked him about it. he said he was 15 on that day of infamy. he and his fellow classmates were each given a rifle and a sector of a beach. they were to be the first line of defense for the upcoming japanese invasion of hawaii. my father fought at le shima/okinawa and was on a troop ship off tokyo bay when truman wisely dropped the atomic bomb. countless American and japanese lives were saved by trumans action. I have visited the arizona memorial. a very moving experience.
now back to the destruction of Sacred Heart.....
carmineabbatiello
Well-known member
Imagine for a moment that you are not you but instead a small child living in Hiroshima or Nagasaki in 1945. Would you still say that?
this might need a sep thread....
yes on the bomb. japanese women and children were given sticks and ordered to kill the Americans when the Americans landed. your small child would have ate a gi bullet while charging with a stick.
on the pacific islands, the japanese civilians in large part committed suicide or fought to the death rather than surrender under orders from their god/emperor. there were 1800 mini japanese submarines ready to attack the USA fleet.
mods please move this mini thread
on the pacific islands, the japanese civilians in large part committed suicide or fought to the death rather than surrender under orders from their god/emperor. there were 1800 mini japanese submarines ready to attack the USA fleet.
mods please move this mini thread
Stevep502
Well-known member
Yes I agree this thread should be seperated.
ive read in a few places that 100-300 Japanese mini-subs were built.
where have you read that 1,800 were built ?
classof2010
Well-known member
Had an accounting professor at community college who served in the pacific back in 2006. The grade I got in his class help me get into SJU. He was like 87 at the time pretty sharp, tell us how he wished Truman didn’t drop the bomb because he wanted to see some action in Tokyo. Crazy SOB, literally use to talk numbers, king fu, and massage parlors. Also, would hit up the single moms too in class. His wife just passed. Great guy, we had some folk’s went to Sacred Heart too. On Pearl Harbor day let’s take out Lattina and crew by 40!
No politics please
Since the forum post that began with the USS Arizona elicited interest, I wanted to respond to the continual question about dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
This was questioned at the highest levels of government before droppingnthe bomb. Scientists who worked on the Manhattan project urged Truman not to use it. IMO, Truman was one of the greatest Presidents of the 20th century, if not of our entire history, and ironically was an accidental President.
David McCullogh, perhaps the greatest US biographer covered this topic extensively in his book entitled "Truman". It is a great book.
As stated in the other thread, Japan would not capitulate even as the war was lost. They were the most brutal regime to POWs, as at least 1/3 of American prisoners died in Japanese camps and likely much more since they misreported captures and used prisoners as slave labor, working them to death and starving them. They felt anyone who submitted to capture was no longer worthy of being considered human.
Truman weighed everything and knew if the US didn't use the bomb, other countries were right behind us in development and would. Russian forces were moving eastward and if the war did not end would claim large chunks of China.
Unlike Pearl Harbor, and recent terrorist attacks, the US dropped millions of leaflets in advance on those cities warning of a messive bombing and for civilians to evacuate.
Even after Hiroshima Japan would not surrender. Only after the US delivered on its threat to continue bombing and Nagasaki was bombed did Japan surrender. Likely tens of thousands of US troops were spared as war casualties. The pilot of the Enola Gay was carefully psychologically screened for the possible traumatic impact of delivering such carnage.
After Nagasaki, the US, in a show of military strength, flew thousands of planes over Japan as a show of strength and vuctory, just in case the japanese propaganda machine was saying something different.
Hopefully nuclear weaponry will never be used again, but with dangerous countries developing nuclear weapons that may not be possible.
Certainly a horrific event, no matter what your opinion on using it.
I sometimes think of all the classmates I didn't have because of the thousands of young soldiers who returned home in body bags.
Last night attended a fantastic Christmas parade in FL. I watched with members of a local VFW where my sister is active. The VFW set up a viewing secion with metal bleachers put up for the vets. Forever grateful to anyone who ever served. Each knew they may be called to make the ultimate sacrifice. Courageous Americans.
Hopefully respectful viewpoints can be expressed without acrimony.
This was questioned at the highest levels of government before droppingnthe bomb. Scientists who worked on the Manhattan project urged Truman not to use it. IMO, Truman was one of the greatest Presidents of the 20th century, if not of our entire history, and ironically was an accidental President.
David McCullogh, perhaps the greatest US biographer covered this topic extensively in his book entitled "Truman". It is a great book.
As stated in the other thread, Japan would not capitulate even as the war was lost. They were the most brutal regime to POWs, as at least 1/3 of American prisoners died in Japanese camps and likely much more since they misreported captures and used prisoners as slave labor, working them to death and starving them. They felt anyone who submitted to capture was no longer worthy of being considered human.
Truman weighed everything and knew if the US didn't use the bomb, other countries were right behind us in development and would. Russian forces were moving eastward and if the war did not end would claim large chunks of China.
Unlike Pearl Harbor, and recent terrorist attacks, the US dropped millions of leaflets in advance on those cities warning of a messive bombing and for civilians to evacuate.
Even after Hiroshima Japan would not surrender. Only after the US delivered on its threat to continue bombing and Nagasaki was bombed did Japan surrender. Likely tens of thousands of US troops were spared as war casualties. The pilot of the Enola Gay was carefully psychologically screened for the possible traumatic impact of delivering such carnage.
After Nagasaki, the US, in a show of military strength, flew thousands of planes over Japan as a show of strength and vuctory, just in case the japanese propaganda machine was saying something different.
Hopefully nuclear weaponry will never be used again, but with dangerous countries developing nuclear weapons that may not be possible.
Certainly a horrific event, no matter what your opinion on using it.
I sometimes think of all the classmates I didn't have because of the thousands of young soldiers who returned home in body bags.
Last night attended a fantastic Christmas parade in FL. I watched with members of a local VFW where my sister is active. The VFW set up a viewing secion with metal bleachers put up for the vets. Forever grateful to anyone who ever served. Each knew they may be called to make the ultimate sacrifice. Courageous Americans.
Hopefully respectful viewpoints can be expressed without acrimony.
Solid Post Beast- on an all too-serious topic.
Having gone Catholic HS and College - i never took much interest in the Bible until i started having kids, and wanting to make sure i live a life worth emulating.
I have hopped around a bit to diff chapters in the New Testament- but does anyone know if Jesus ever speaks to war? I know the Catholic Church has stances on "just war".
Having gone Catholic HS and College - i never took much interest in the Bible until i started having kids, and wanting to make sure i live a life worth emulating.
I have hopped around a bit to diff chapters in the New Testament- but does anyone know if Jesus ever speaks to war? I know the Catholic Church has stances on "just war".
braintrust
Well-known member
Different views on the role of The Catholic Church during WWII. Many priests helped hide and save the lives of many Jews. Some say The Vatican was not as helpful as it could have been. In the 1980s, John Paul II was very political; working with Reagan and Thatcher to undermine the Soviet Union.
The Vatican was not helpful during WWII, but Catholics were.
Pope John Paul II was a remarkable person. He helped protect many Polish Jews from being killed by the Nazis. Israel and Italian Jews honored Pope John Paul II after his death.
Nowhere is this seen better than in the 2019 film "A Hidden Life," which tells the true story of Catholic Franz Jaegerstaetter who publicly resisted the Nazi occupation of his Austrian town and was executed for resisting conscription into the German Army.
He was later beatified by the church.
It's a Terrence Mallick film and either you love his work or you don't. I'm among the latter. It's long and slow but it packs a punch.
Pope Pius XII has been subjected to criticism over time for not speaking out strongly against the Nazis and Hitler. Supposedly his readoning was not to bring Hitler's wrath down on Catholics. Covertly he endorsed Catholic monasteries harboring Jews, and helping Jews to escape Germany. The Holocaust was larger than just Jews. Karol Wojtyla himselfbwas marked for extermination as a Cstholic seminarian but when the Nazis came to arrest him, were told he was dead. He was ordained secretly afterwards.
People critical of Pope Pius today sometimes do it with a post 1960 viewpoint. At the time time of the Pius papacy, the pope was called "the prisoner of the Vatican", rarely leaving. The only time Pius left the Vatican was when the Nazis bombed Termini civilian train station, suspecting that military suppliesvwere being smuggled to Allied forces.
I have a great story about Pope John Paul II if you PM me I will send it.
Was down at my relatives deep in the farmland of Maryland last weekend ( the 4 closest towns populations 400-2000 ) and my uncle and I went to the vfw to hang out because basically between those 4 towns there are only 2 bars to go to and the vfw has one of them. Anyway we walk in and my Uncle basically is friends with everyone there so he's introducing me to all of them and we are hanging out and what struck me is like my grandpop all their dads or grandads were in WW2 and all of them obviously served at various times. Some of them had stories from their dads or grandads about WW2. It was really interesting hearing some stories that they knew about WW2. Truly as has been said the greatest generation