Would we have been better with LJ?

[BrooklynRed]

It was probably a win win situation for LJ and for the team.  LJ was very uncomfortable after Heron went down and he was counted on to step up as team leader.  It was most notable in the team huddle pre and post game as he seemed reticient to be that leader--actually Sears stepped up in that role despite being a minor player.  Also LJ's shooting suffered when Heron went down, possibly thinking he had to carry the team.  Liked him, except those 3's from all over.  Who knows, maybe with Posh on board he might have thrived.  Julian on the other hand stepped up when Heron went down as did Greg.

 

[SJUFAN2]

Amaseinyourface" post=424011Absolutely 

I don't know that its cut and dry.   I seriously doubt Champagnie would be where he is today with figgy getting 30+min a nitght, hoisting 30 footers off a pump fake, and 20 foot floaters 4 or 5 times a game.

I like where this team is right now.  

Except that's not what LJ is doing this year with more talent around him. So I believe it's fair to expect that he would have played more under control this year with less pressure on him to score. Just as he's doing at Oregon. Do I think Champ would have led the Big East in scoring is LJ were here? No I don't. Maybe he would have averaged 16-17 PPG. But that same thing would have happened if Cole scored more. Do I think we would have been a better team if LJ was here, yes I do. 




 

Too each their own, but I prefer our offense to run through Champagnie rather than through Figgy.   Champagnie is more efficient, has an infinitely better understand of what a good shot is, and he doesn't stop the ball.

I believe its wishful thinking to assume that LJ would have taken a step (or two) back here when he was the best player on the team last year.   Doing that at Oregon is expected.   He's the new kid on the block out there.   Here, he was top dog.   
Is he a better player than Cole...absolutely.  But if you plugged him into Cole's role on this year's team I think he'd destroy the team's chemistry by pouting, and I know his presence would have slowed Champagnie's development. 

Interesting debate, too bad we'll never know how it would have played out.

 

[SJUFAN2]

Absolutely 

I don't know that its cut and dry.   I seriously doubt Champagnie would be where he is today with figgy getting 30+min a nitght, hoisting 30 footers off a pump fake, and 20 foot floaters 4 or 5 times a game.

I like where this team is right now.  

Question wasn’t whether or not champ would still be the BE leading scorer.

Well, then its good thing I never said anythging about him being the leading scorer, isn't it?  

 

[monte]

Amaseinyourface" post=424011Absolutely 

I don't know that its cut and dry.   I seriously doubt Champagnie would be where he is today with figgy getting 30+min a nitght, hoisting 30 footers off a pump fake, and 20 foot floaters 4 or 5 times a game.

I like where this team is right now.  

Except that's not what LJ is doing this year with more talent around him. So I believe it's fair to expect that he would have played more under control this year with less pressure on him to score. Just as he's doing at Oregon. Do I think Champ would have led the Big East in scoring is LJ were here? No I don't. Maybe he would have averaged 16-17 PPG. But that same thing would have happened if Cole scored more. Do I think we would have been a better team if LJ was here, yes I do. 




 

Too each their own, but I prefer our offense to run through Champagnie rether than through Figgy.   Champagnie is more efficient, has an infinitely better understand of what a good shot is, and he doesn't stop the ball.

I believe its wishful thinking to assume that LJ would have taken a step (or two) back here when he was the best player on the team last year.   Doing that at Oregon is expected.   He's the new kid on the block out there.   Here, he was top dog.   
Is he a better player than Cole...absolutely.  But if you plugged him into Cole's role on this year's team I think he'd destroy the team's chemistry by pouting, and I know his presence would have slowed Champagnie's development. 

Interesting debate, too bad we'll never know how it would have played out.

If LJ had stayed, I still think Champ would be the big dog. I think LJs minutes would have come mostly at the expense of Cole, Wusu and Earl. And as good as those 3 have been, they are not even close to LJ. Now, unlike some of the other posters who have implied that LJ had an attitude and didn't get along with CMA, I never saw that and am basing what I think on him being all-in here. Obviously if he wasn't going to be all-in, it's better that he left. No doubt he regressed last year from the prior year, but once again, he was surrounded by other scoring options the prior year. I'm thrilled with this team, but still think we would have been better with an all-in LJ. As you say, we'll never know. 
 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Absolutely 

I don't know that its cut and dry.   I seriously doubt Champagnie would be where he is today with figgy getting 30+min a nitght, hoisting 30 footers off a pump fake, and 20 foot floaters 4 or 5 times a game.

I like where this team is right now.  

Question wasn’t whether or not champ would still be the BE leading scorer.

Well, then its good thing I never said anythging about him being the leading scorer, isn't it?  

My fault, semantics. The questions wasn’t whether champ would be playing as well as he is, but if the team would be better. And I’m sure If you asked champ he would be more worried about the team playing better than him.

 

[Las Vegan]

If I could have a player from last year, it would be Nick Rutherford. No drama, just a solid all-around contributor.

 

[bamafan]

If I could have a player from last year, it would be Tony Rutherford. No drama, just a solid all-around contributor.


Nick's brother?  /media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png/media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png
 

 

[usguard]

Agree, I know I am in the minority but didn't particularly like LJs game,think Champ is a better shooter ,better foul shooter better rebounder and takes better shots


 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Agree, I know I am in the minority but didn't particularly like LJs game,think Champ is a better shooter ,better foul shooter better rebounder and takes better shots



 

He is all of those things but it’s not mutually exclusive.

 

[monte]

Since we're kicking around the hypothetical.......you put Juston Simon on this roster and we are dancing strong!

I know I'm getting old and forgetful, but if Simon had stayed for another year, wouldn't he still have graduated last year? 

 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Fwiw, Per 40 minutes this year LJ is taking 13.1 shots a game. That's less than Moore, Earlington and Cole.

Hes also been on a shooting tear during second half of conference play. Those who think he can't shoot go check out what his numbers look like at the end of the year. 

 

[usguard]

Agree, I know I am in the minority but didn't particularly like LJs game,think Champ is a better shooter ,better foul shooter better rebounder and takes better shots


 

 

[SJUFAN2]

Amaseinyourface" post=424173

Amaseinyourface" post=424150

Amaseinyourface" post=424011Absolutely 

I don't know that its cut and dry.   I seriously doubt Champagnie would be where he is today with figgy getting 30+min a nitght, hoisting 30 footers off a pump fake, and 20 foot floaters 4 or 5 times a game.

I like where this team is right now.  

Question wasn’t whether or not champ would still be the BE leading scorer.

Well, then its good thing I never said anythging about him being the leading scorer, isn't it?  

My fault, semantics. The questions wasn’t whether champ would be playing as well as he is, but if the team would be better. And I’m sure If you asked champ he would be more worried about the team playing better than him.

Yes.  Which is why I said my opinion was that it wouldn't have been better with him here because LJ showed he couldn't be the top dog, wasn't likely to be happy with a demotion.   Heck, he also showed he can't play co-top dog either, or have we forgotten that this team only went on a run last year after Heron got hurt?
The way I see it is that If LJ is pumping up 12-15 (mostly bad) shots a night, then Champagnie isn't the player he is today.   Period.  He's not the leader, or the POY candidate he is right now because he wouldn't have carried the weight he has this year. 
I also think its unrealistic to expect a guy with pro aspirations to take a demotion and play 3rd fiddle to a Soph and freshman who hadn't shown star potential yet.   Especially a guy that wasn't recruited by this coach and who has had his name in the transfer portal TWICE.  



  

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Amaseinyourface" post=424173

Amaseinyourface" post=424150

Amaseinyourface" post=424011Absolutely 

I don't know that its cut and dry.   I seriously doubt Champagnie would be where he is today with figgy getting 30+min a nitght, hoisting 30 footers off a pump fake, and 20 foot floaters 4 or 5 times a game.

I like where this team is right now.  

Question wasn’t whether or not champ would still be the BE leading scorer.

Well, then its good thing I never said anythging about him being the leading scorer, isn't it?  

My fault, semantics. The questions wasn’t whether champ would be playing as well as he is, but if the team would be better. And I’m sure If you asked champ he would be more worried about the team playing better than him.

Yes.  Which is why I said my opinion was that it wouldn't have been better with him here because LJ showed he couldn't be the top dog, wasn't likely to be happy with a demotion.   Heck, he also showed he can't play co-top dog either, or have we forgotten that this team only went on a run last year after Heron got hurt?
The way I see it is that If LJ is pumping up 12-15 (mostly bad) shots a night, then Champagnie isn't the player he is today.   Period.  He's not the leader, or the POY candidate he is right now because he wouldn't have carried the weight he has this year. 
I also think its unrealistic to expect a guy with pro aspirations to take a demotion and play 3rd fiddle to a Soph and freshman who hadn't shown star potential yet.   Especially a guy that wasn't recruited by this coach and who has had his name in the transfer portal TWICE.  



  

Agree to disagree on role. You've yet to mention the other side of the ball where he excelled. . LJ is gonna have 3 winning seasons in 3 years and somehow he gets painted a losing player.

 

[SJUFAN2]

Amaseinyourface" post=424191

Amaseinyourface" post=424173

Amaseinyourface" post=424150

Amaseinyourface" post=424011Absolutely 

I don't know that its cut and dry.   I seriously doubt Champagnie would be where he is today with figgy getting 30+min a nitght, hoisting 30 footers off a pump fake, and 20 foot floaters 4 or 5 times a game.

I like where this team is right now.  

Question wasn’t whether or not champ would still be the BE leading scorer.

Well, then its good thing I never said anythging about him being the leading scorer, isn't it?  

My fault, semantics. The questions wasn’t whether champ would be playing as well as he is, but if the team would be better. And I’m sure If you asked champ he would be more worried about the team playing better than him.

Yes.  Which is why I said my opinion was that it wouldn't have been better with him here because LJ showed he couldn't be the top dog, wasn't likely to be happy with a demotion.   Heck, he also showed he can't play co-top dog either, or have we forgotten that this team only went on a run last year after Heron got hurt?
The way I see it is that If LJ is pumping up 12-15 (mostly bad) shots a night, then Champagnie isn't the player he is today.   Period.  He's not the leader, or the POY candidate he is right now because he wouldn't have carried the weight he has this year. 
I also think its unrealistic to expect a guy with pro aspirations to take a demotion and play 3rd fiddle to a Soph and freshman who hadn't shown star potential yet.   Especially a guy that wasn't recruited by this coach and who has had his name in the transfer portal TWICE.  



  

Agree to disagree. LJ is gonna have 3 winning seasons in 3 years and somehow he gets painted a losing player.

Agreed (to disagree).
But the question wasn't whether LJ was a loser or not.  He certainly isn't, and nobody said he was.  The question was whether or not Champagnie would be leading the league in scoring if LJ were here.
/media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png

 

[redmanwest]

Yes do anyone who doesn't want to be here, good luck and good riddance. Not mean spirited, just fact.   

He for whatever reason last year wasn't the same player as the first.  Probably because he didn't want to be here last year either.  So, as was said, addition by subtraction.  

Having said that, he's found a good situation for himself so good fir him.   

His double flirtation with leaving as well as his late decision indicates he's selfish and while he's entitled to do what's best for him,  it also indicates he wasn't the best teammate. 

 

[JohnnyFan]

Since we're kicking around the hypothetical.......you put Juston Simon on this roster and we are dancing strong!

I know I'm getting old and forgetful, but if Simon had stayed for another year, wouldn't he still have graduated last year? 


 

Yes, totally dreaming. 

But, gosh, our defense would be insane.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

"LJ showed he couldn't be the top dog, wasn't likely to be happy with a demotion.   Heck, he also showed he can't play co-top dog either, or have we forgotten that this team only went on a run last year after Heron got hurt?
The way I see it is that If LJ is pumping up 12-15 (mostly bad) shots a night"

This didn't exactly portray him as a winning player IMO. The great run to end the season saw LJ do exactly what some posters are saying he wouldn't be able to this year. He took a lesser role while others stepped up. We don't have to imagine him doing it. We saw it. 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Yes do anyone who doesn't want to be here, good luck and good riddance. Not mean spirited, just fact.   

He for whatever reason last year wasn't the same player as the first.  Probably because he didn't want to be here last year either.  So, as was said, addition by subtraction.  

Having said that, he's found a good situation for himself so good fir him.   

His double flirtation with leaving as well as his late decision indicates he's selfish and while he's entitled to do what's best for him,  it also indicates he wasn't the best teammate. 

Jesus, what does a poster calling a college kid selfish off message board banter say?

 

[redmanwest]

That's funny.  

It says it's quite obvious he was looking out for his own self interests, which as I said is fine, but it's just the truth.   Even if you're so jaded you can't handle it.