World Metta Peace

[fun]

By far the best post I have read in this thread. Finally a poster with a little compassion and understanding for someone who suffers from mental illness.

 

Yes well I'm going to have to disagree completely. The poster who says don't judge him poorly on isolated incidents goes on to list several isolated incidents upon which we are supposed to judge him generously. One persons personal interaction in a social context is exactly the wrong way to judge him. Squeaky Fromme had lovely things to say about Charles Manson based upon their personal interactions. He was kind to animals and a generous lover. That doesn't make him a good guy.

The fact is that nearly everyone who attends college classes sits there quietly and politely. That Artest managed to do so is not evidence of his good character. Nearly everyone who plays intramural manages to do so without getting into a fist fight. Most millionaires give away money for tax purposes. These things are normal. He should not get credit for managing to behave with bare civility. The take away from Artest's behavior are the violent acts he perpetrates in public - because public violence is anomalous. It's more likely that you can extrapolate from his aberrational behavior in front of a crowd of 30000 people to what he does in private that is covered up by his money and power than you can extrapolate goodness from the fact that he's managed to sit through Sociology 101 without stabbing the professor in the head with the leg of his chair.

I don't doubt that psychologists have dumbed down poor impulse control to the point that Artest is considered mentally ill. According to my own diagnosis he's suffering from acute borderline pervasive bipolar autism with marked impairment of his schizophreniform catatonia. Others might disagree. In any event he probably should seek counseling. Or switch to decaf. But he won't: "I've never taken medication .. Doctors have suggested it and I say, OK, give it to me. But I throw it in the garbage." And he doesn't have to. Because if he elbows some schlub in the head nearly killing him he gets suspended just long enough for the Lakers to win game seven. As Dr Pesci of the institute put it: It's all about the dollars, always the dollars.

 

[dff6]

By far the best post I have read in this thread. Finally a poster with a little compassion and understanding for someone who suffers from mental illness.

 

Yes well I'm going to have to disagree completely. The poster who says don't judge him poorly on isolated incidents goes on to list several isolated incidents upon which we are supposed to judge him generously. One persons personal interaction in a social context is exactly the wrong way to judge him. Squeaky Fromme had lovely things to say about Charles Manson based upon their personal interactions. He was kind to animals and a generous lover. That doesn't make him a good guy.

The fact is that nearly everyone who attends college classes sits there quietly and politely. That Artest managed to do so is not evidence of his good character. Nearly everyone who plays intramural manages to do so without getting into a fist fight. Most millionaires give away money for tax purposes. These things are normal. He should not get credit for managing to behave with bare civility. The take away from Artest's behavior are the violent acts he perpetrates in public - because public violence is anomalous. It's more likely that you can extrapolate from his aberrational behavior in front of a crowd of 30000 people to what he does in private that is covered up by his money and power than you can extrapolate goodness from the fact that he's managed to sit through Sociology 101 without stabbing the professor in the head with the leg of his chair.

I don't doubt that psychologists have dumbed down poor impulse control to the point that Artest is considered mentally ill. According to my own diagnosis he's suffering from acute borderline pervasive bipolar autism with marked impairment of his schizophreniform catatonia. Others might disagree. In any event he probably should seek counseling. Or switch to decaf. But he won't: "I've never taken medication .. Doctors have suggested it and I say, OK, give it to me. But I throw it in the garbage." And he doesn't have to. Because if he elbows some schlub in the head nearly killing him he gets suspended just long enough for the Lakers to win game seven. As Dr Pesci of the institute put it: It's all about the dollars, always the dollars.

 

Good post. I'm not a psychologist, but clearly Artest/MWP has issues that cause his abnormal behavior. That said, even mentally ill people are usually required to answer for their actions when they harm others or themselves. Without the NBA, Artest/MWP probably spends long stays in a secured location, or worse, is dead. With the NBA he's merely a "bad boy" playing a critical role on the Lakers.

 

[redstorm80]

 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about this stuff but it's not ridiculous to ascertain that MWP is a thug. You can know somebody moderately well and 99% of their time on this earth is spent doing good by if that other 1% is spent throwing vicious elbows, throwing tantrums, starting melees, and making terrible rap albums declaring how hard you are then it's not offensive to call him a thug.
Back to what somebody said about Kevin Love, I believe what he did was thuggish and agregiously violent but that's his first incident that I know of. If you asked me to name how many thugs there are in the league I can probably count them on 1 hand. It jut so happens my pointer finger is reserved for moRon Artest.

 

You're labeling him off of how he plays though. Yes he is a dirty player thats a given. He's also outspoken and doesn't always say the right things. That doesn't make him a thug though. Also not really sure what him attempting music has to do with this

 

[bamafan]

Do any of you know Ron Artest personally? Because alot of you are quick to judge his character and call him names like you do. Ron Artest the basketball player and Ron Artest are completely different. You dont have to like him as a player but the personal attacks on him are weak

 

Oh, so that was a basketball play? brutally elbowing a guy in the head, then showing no remorse at all afterwards? He said he won't shake his hand, then say he flopped, and he can't even man up and say he did it on purpose.

I'm sorry, you can choose to believe he's a swell guy. I don't have to know him personally to draw my conclusion of him. Believe me, I've tried to root for him for a long time. This was the last straw for me. Nothing about the Malace at the Palace, or the Harden elbow had anything to do with basketball, they were thuggish and disgusting events.

 

Of course I dont condone what he did to Harden but its not like he is the only person who participates in fights/cheap shots. Larry Bird & Dr J must be "thugs" then. Every hockey player must be a criminal. Artest makes alot of mistakes, I dont think anyone would deny that. Extremely double standard to continuously bash him and call him names and give everyone else a pass

 

Well he's a former St. John's player, that's why he's discussed here. Just because other players and other sports may be thugs, doesn't change the fact that Artest is one also. Do not recall Bird or Magic deliberately elbowing a guy to the head like that when the basketball was not even in play. Also, do not recall them going into the stands to fight a fan either.

As far as hockey, usually both players accept the challenge to fight, it's part of the culture of the game. Also, hockey is a contact sport, completely different.

Artest deserves to be bashed. Start a thread on thug hockey players if you want to, but it has little relevance on this board.

He is probably the dirtiest player in basketball right now, and it's not a coincidence he was involved in the most disgraceful event to ever occur during an NBA game.

 

I know why he is being discussed I'm speaking more in general though as to why Ron gets bashed and others get a passed. Again I know he can play dirty and what he did to Harden was terrible, i'm not going to deny that. The point i'm making is that other players dont get held to that standard. Kevin Love, who I have alot of respect for, intentionally stomped on Scola's face and no one ever calls him a thug or shows him the hate Artest receives. (again he deserves some)

Old school guys played extremely dirty and did things of this nature and we idolize them. I believe it was Moses Malone & Barkley who put Bird in a head lock while Dr. J swung on him. The reason I brought up the hockey thing was because all the time I see dirty things. I dont really watch hockey but see highlights of blatant cheap shots and fighting. Yes it is a contact sport but basketball is a very physical game too.

If you watch the brawl in Detroit, Ben Wallace started the whole thing. Ron got hit and was laying down on the scorers table while everything was being figured out. Then the fans got involved and he took action along with others. Many players would of reacted just as he did. It became a dangerous and he defended himself. He shouldn't of did what he did and he apologized but again he isn't the only player who would of got involved in this brawl.

My responses aren't directly answering to you but more as a general discussion on why he becomes the scape goat for everything bad when others like K Love gets passes

 

I'm not saying that Artest is the only dirty NBA player. Love gets a pass because he is a first time offender (still a terrible thing to do). Artest has a long history of this type of behavior, and I gave him a pass after the Palace incident, but he never learned. I'm not sure how many NBA players would've rushed the stands like that, I would say the number is very low. As an NBA player you have to be prepared for immature fans.

Old NBA players played very rough, and gave very hard fouls, but most of that was done when the basketball was in play, which is what separates Artest's acts from them.

And Artest definitely escalated that brawl, it would not be remembered like it is now had he not been on the court that night.

 

You made good points but I gotta disagree with the brawl. He barely fouled Ben Wallace and Wallace attacks him. They had Ron laying down on the scorers table (obviously a bad decision) while they were trying to settle everything down. Idiots in the stands thought they would be cool if they threw stuff at him and he reacted. Ron should of never went up there but that fan got what he deserved, hard to feel bad for alot of them. IMO the fans and lack of security are more to blame then the players.

 
"that fan got what he deserved"??? Your memory is off because Ron attacked the wrong guy. He grabbed an innocent fan around the neck and tried to punch him but was grabbed from behind by the actual culprit who threw the water bottle that hit Ron and the nutty fan who threw the bottle and grabbed Ron from behind actually started punching Ron in the side before more people got involved in the brawl or should I say The Malice in the Palace.

 

[redstorm80]

Do any of you know Ron Artest personally? Because alot of you are quick to judge his character and call him names like you do. Ron Artest the basketball player and Ron Artest are completely different. You dont have to like him as a player but the personal attacks on him are weak

 

Oh, so that was a basketball play? brutally elbowing a guy in the head, then showing no remorse at all afterwards? He said he won't shake his hand, then say he flopped, and he can't even man up and say he did it on purpose.

I'm sorry, you can choose to believe he's a swell guy. I don't have to know him personally to draw my conclusion of him. Believe me, I've tried to root for him for a long time. This was the last straw for me. Nothing about the Malace at the Palace, or the Harden elbow had anything to do with basketball, they were thuggish and disgusting events.

 

Of course I dont condone what he did to Harden but its not like he is the only person who participates in fights/cheap shots. Larry Bird & Dr J must be "thugs" then. Every hockey player must be a criminal. Artest makes alot of mistakes, I dont think anyone would deny that. Extremely double standard to continuously bash him and call him names and give everyone else a pass

 

Well he's a former St. John's player, that's why he's discussed here. Just because other players and other sports may be thugs, doesn't change the fact that Artest is one also. Do not recall Bird or Magic deliberately elbowing a guy to the head like that when the basketball was not even in play. Also, do not recall them going into the stands to fight a fan either.

As far as hockey, usually both players accept the challenge to fight, it's part of the culture of the game. Also, hockey is a contact sport, completely different.

Artest deserves to be bashed. Start a thread on thug hockey players if you want to, but it has little relevance on this board.

He is probably the dirtiest player in basketball right now, and it's not a coincidence he was involved in the most disgraceful event to ever occur during an NBA game.

 

I know why he is being discussed I'm speaking more in general though as to why Ron gets bashed and others get a passed. Again I know he can play dirty and what he did to Harden was terrible, i'm not going to deny that. The point i'm making is that other players dont get held to that standard. Kevin Love, who I have alot of respect for, intentionally stomped on Scola's face and no one ever calls him a thug or shows him the hate Artest receives. (again he deserves some)

Old school guys played extremely dirty and did things of this nature and we idolize them. I believe it was Moses Malone & Barkley who put Bird in a head lock while Dr. J swung on him. The reason I brought up the hockey thing was because all the time I see dirty things. I dont really watch hockey but see highlights of blatant cheap shots and fighting. Yes it is a contact sport but basketball is a very physical game too.

If you watch the brawl in Detroit, Ben Wallace started the whole thing. Ron got hit and was laying down on the scorers table while everything was being figured out. Then the fans got involved and he took action along with others. Many players would of reacted just as he did. It became a dangerous and he defended himself. He shouldn't of did what he did and he apologized but again he isn't the only player who would of got involved in this brawl.

My responses aren't directly answering to you but more as a general discussion on why he becomes the scape goat for everything bad when others like K Love gets passes

 

I'm not saying that Artest is the only dirty NBA player. Love gets a pass because he is a first time offender (still a terrible thing to do). Artest has a long history of this type of behavior, and I gave him a pass after the Palace incident, but he never learned. I'm not sure how many NBA players would've rushed the stands like that, I would say the number is very low. As an NBA player you have to be prepared for immature fans.

Old NBA players played very rough, and gave very hard fouls, but most of that was done when the basketball was in play, which is what separates Artest's acts from them.

And Artest definitely escalated that brawl, it would not be remembered like it is now had he not been on the court that night.

 

You made good points but I gotta disagree with the brawl. He barely fouled Ben Wallace and Wallace attacks him. They had Ron laying down on the scorers table (obviously a bad decision) while they were trying to settle everything down. Idiots in the stands thought they would be cool if they threw stuff at him and he reacted. Ron should of never went up there but that fan got what he deserved, hard to feel bad for alot of them. IMO the fans and lack of security are more to blame then the players.

 
"that fan got what he deserved"??? Your memory is off because Ron attacked the wrong guy. He grabbed an innocent fan around the neck and tried to punch him but was grabbed from behind by the actual culprit who threw the water bottle that hit Ron and the nutty fan who threw the bottle and grabbed Ron from behind actually started punching Ron in the side before more people got involved in the brawl or should I say The Malice in the Palace.

 

Yeah my bad on that, forgot the first guy wasn't the guy who threw the beer

 

[RedStorm212]

Do any of you know Ron Artest personally? Because alot of you are quick to judge his character and call him names like you do. Ron Artest the basketball player and Ron Artest are completely different. You dont have to like him as a player but the personal attacks on him are weak

 

Oh, so that was a basketball play? brutally elbowing a guy in the head, then showing no remorse at all afterwards? He said he won't shake his hand, then say he flopped, and he can't even man up and say he did it on purpose.

I'm sorry, you can choose to believe he's a swell guy. I don't have to know him personally to draw my conclusion of him. Believe me, I've tried to root for him for a long time. This was the last straw for me. Nothing about the Malace at the Palace, or the Harden elbow had anything to do with basketball, they were thuggish and disgusting events.

 

Of course I dont condone what he did to Harden but its not like he is the only person who participates in fights/cheap shots. Larry Bird & Dr J must be "thugs" then. Every hockey player must be a criminal. Artest makes alot of mistakes, I dont think anyone would deny that. Extremely double standard to continuously bash him and call him names and give everyone else a pass

 

Well he's a former St. John's player, that's why he's discussed here. Just because other players and other sports may be thugs, doesn't change the fact that Artest is one also. Do not recall Bird or Magic deliberately elbowing a guy to the head like that when the basketball was not even in play. Also, do not recall them going into the stands to fight a fan either.

As far as hockey, usually both players accept the challenge to fight, it's part of the culture of the game. Also, hockey is a contact sport, completely different.

Artest deserves to be bashed. Start a thread on thug hockey players if you want to, but it has little relevance on this board.

He is probably the dirtiest player in basketball right now, and it's not a coincidence he was involved in the most disgraceful event to ever occur during an NBA game.

 

I know why he is being discussed I'm speaking more in general though as to why Ron gets bashed and others get a passed. Again I know he can play dirty and what he did to Harden was terrible, i'm not going to deny that. The point i'm making is that other players dont get held to that standard. Kevin Love, who I have alot of respect for, intentionally stomped on Scola's face and no one ever calls him a thug or shows him the hate Artest receives. (again he deserves some)

Old school guys played extremely dirty and did things of this nature and we idolize them. I believe it was Moses Malone & Barkley who put Bird in a head lock while Dr. J swung on him. The reason I brought up the hockey thing was because all the time I see dirty things. I dont really watch hockey but see highlights of blatant cheap shots and fighting. Yes it is a contact sport but basketball is a very physical game too.

If you watch the brawl in Detroit, Ben Wallace started the whole thing. Ron got hit and was laying down on the scorers table while everything was being figured out. Then the fans got involved and he took action along with others. Many players would of reacted just as he did. It became a dangerous and he defended himself. He shouldn't of did what he did and he apologized but again he isn't the only player who would of got involved in this brawl.

My responses aren't directly answering to you but more as a general discussion on why he becomes the scape goat for everything bad when others like K Love gets passes

 

I'm not saying that Artest is the only dirty NBA player. Love gets a pass because he is a first time offender (still a terrible thing to do). Artest has a long history of this type of behavior, and I gave him a pass after the Palace incident, but he never learned. I'm not sure how many NBA players would've rushed the stands like that, I would say the number is very low. As an NBA player you have to be prepared for immature fans.

Old NBA players played very rough, and gave very hard fouls, but most of that was done when the basketball was in play, which is what separates Artest's acts from them.

And Artest definitely escalated that brawl, it would not be remembered like it is now had he not been on the court that night.

 

You made good points but I gotta disagree with the brawl. He barely fouled Ben Wallace and Wallace attacks him. They had Ron laying down on the scorers table (obviously a bad decision) while they were trying to settle everything down. Idiots in the stands thought they would be cool if they threw stuff at him and he reacted. Ron should of never went up there but that fan got what he deserved, hard to feel bad for alot of them. IMO the fans and lack of security are more to blame then the players.

 
"that fan got what he deserved"??? Your memory is off because Ron attacked the wrong guy. He grabbed an innocent fan around the neck and tried to punch him but was grabbed from behind by the actual culprit who threw the water bottle that hit Ron and the nutty fan who threw the bottle and grabbed Ron from behind actually started punching Ron in the side before more people got involved in the brawl or should I say The Malice in the Palace.

 

Yeah my bad on that, forgot the first guy wasn't the guy who threw the beer

 

Kind of my point on Ron. I mean what kind of man attacks someone who he's not even sure threw the beer? Just shows he aimlessly stormed into the stands simply because he was mad. Putting a large number of innocent fans, including children, at risk. Hard not to blame him IMO.

 

[sirvoo]

 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about this stuff but it's not ridiculous to ascertain that MWP is a thug. You can know somebody moderately well and 99% of their time on this earth is spent doing good by if that other 1% is spent throwing vicious elbows, throwing tantrums, starting melees, and making terrible rap albums declaring how hard you are then it's not offensive to call him a thug.
Back to what somebody said about Kevin Love, I believe what he did was thuggish and agregiously violent but that's his first incident that I know of. If you asked me to name how many thugs there are in the league I can probably count them on 1 hand. It jut so happens my pointer finger is reserved for moRon Artest.

 

You're labeling him off of how he plays though. Yes he is a dirty player thats a given. He's also outspoken and doesn't always say the right things. That doesn't make him a thug though. Also not really sure what him attempting music has to do with this

 

"Look at my anger, tell me if my smile looks fake, 'cause when I'm mad, I'm biting off ears like carrot cake." -Ron artest

Not sure if you've heard of "rap" but normally artists try to portray a thug mentality. I am absolutely not labeling him as a player because personally I don't even think he's a dirty player. He is physical which has been his calling card for a long time. Attempting to decapitate James Harden with a vicious elbow in front of millions of people also has nothing to do with how he plays and has everything to do with the fact that he is a deranged man on many levels.

 

[RedStorm212]

 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about this stuff but it's not ridiculous to ascertain that MWP is a thug. You can know somebody moderately well and 99% of their time on this earth is spent doing good by if that other 1% is spent throwing vicious elbows, throwing tantrums, starting melees, and making terrible rap albums declaring how hard you are then it's not offensive to call him a thug.
Back to what somebody said about Kevin Love, I believe what he did was thuggish and agregiously violent but that's his first incident that I know of. If you asked me to name how many thugs there are in the league I can probably count them on 1 hand. It jut so happens my pointer finger is reserved for moRon Artest.

 

You're labeling him off of how he plays though. Yes he is a dirty player thats a given. He's also outspoken and doesn't always say the right things. That doesn't make him a thug though. Also not really sure what him attempting music has to do with this

 

What makes somebody a thug?

 

[gregbodkin]

 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about this stuff but it's not ridiculous to ascertain that MWP is a thug. You can know somebody moderately well and 99% of their time on this earth is spent doing good by if that other 1% is spent throwing vicious elbows, throwing tantrums, starting melees, and making terrible rap albums declaring how hard you are then it's not offensive to call him a thug.
Back to what somebody said about Kevin Love, I believe what he did was thuggish and agregiously violent but that's his first incident that I know of. If you asked me to name how many thugs there are in the league I can probably count them on 1 hand. It jut so happens my pointer finger is reserved for moRon Artest.

 

You're labeling him off of how he plays though. Yes he is a dirty player thats a given. He's also outspoken and doesn't always say the right things. That doesn't make him a thug though. Also not really sure what him attempting music has to do with this

 

What makes somebody a thug?

 

As per Webster's, thug : a brutal ruffian or assassin %-)

 

[redstorm80]

 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about this stuff but it's not ridiculous to ascertain that MWP is a thug. You can know somebody moderately well and 99% of their time on this earth is spent doing good by if that other 1% is spent throwing vicious elbows, throwing tantrums, starting melees, and making terrible rap albums declaring how hard you are then it's not offensive to call him a thug.
Back to what somebody said about Kevin Love, I believe what he did was thuggish and agregiously violent but that's his first incident that I know of. If you asked me to name how many thugs there are in the league I can probably count them on 1 hand. It jut so happens my pointer finger is reserved for moRon Artest.

 

You're labeling him off of how he plays though. Yes he is a dirty player thats a given. He's also outspoken and doesn't always say the right things. That doesn't make him a thug though. Also not really sure what him attempting music has to do with this

 

"Look at my anger, tell me if my smile looks fake, 'cause when I'm mad, I'm biting off ears like carrot cake." -Ron artest

Not sure if you've heard of "rap" but normally artists try to portray a thug mentality. I am absolutely not labeling him as a player because personally I don't even think he's a dirty player. He is physical which has been his calling card for a long time. Attempting to decapitate James Harden with a vicious elbow in front of millions of people also has nothing to do with how he plays and has everything to do with the fact that he is a deranged man on many levels.

 

Yeah he definitely has some issues cant argue with that. As far as his music I dont take any of that personally its all entertainment

 

[redstorm80]

 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about this stuff but it's not ridiculous to ascertain that MWP is a thug. You can know somebody moderately well and 99% of their time on this earth is spent doing good by if that other 1% is spent throwing vicious elbows, throwing tantrums, starting melees, and making terrible rap albums declaring how hard you are then it's not offensive to call him a thug.
Back to what somebody said about Kevin Love, I believe what he did was thuggish and agregiously violent but that's his first incident that I know of. If you asked me to name how many thugs there are in the league I can probably count them on 1 hand. It jut so happens my pointer finger is reserved for moRon Artest.

 

You're labeling him off of how he plays though. Yes he is a dirty player thats a given. He's also outspoken and doesn't always say the right things. That doesn't make him a thug though. Also not really sure what him attempting music has to do with this

 

What makes somebody a thug?

 

Depends on who you ask, some people dont think of it as a bad thing. Maybe i'm wrong but In this context it sounded people were labeling him as a criminal

 

[RedStorm212]

 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about this stuff but it's not ridiculous to ascertain that MWP is a thug. You can know somebody moderately well and 99% of their time on this earth is spent doing good by if that other 1% is spent throwing vicious elbows, throwing tantrums, starting melees, and making terrible rap albums declaring how hard you are then it's not offensive to call him a thug.
Back to what somebody said about Kevin Love, I believe what he did was thuggish and agregiously violent but that's his first incident that I know of. If you asked me to name how many thugs there are in the league I can probably count them on 1 hand. It jut so happens my pointer finger is reserved for moRon Artest.

 

You're labeling him off of how he plays though. Yes he is a dirty player thats a given. He's also outspoken and doesn't always say the right things. That doesn't make him a thug though. Also not really sure what him attempting music has to do with this

 

What makes somebody a thug?

 

Depends on who you ask, some people dont think of it as a bad thing. Maybe i'm wrong but In this context it sounded people were labeling him as a criminal

 

Well, in most places, if someone throws a vicious elbow to an unaware persons head, completely unprovoked, they'd be looking at assault charges. Same with running into the stands and beating up an innocent fan. But I guess being in the NBA helps you get around that kind of stuff.