Will the NIT Be Good Enough in 2019?

[quote="Chicago Days" post=291576][quote="we are sju" post=291572]Unfortunately some guys just need the ball in their hands and are less effective w/o it. Not that they have to shoot it all the time just seem to get lost and drift through games when playing off the ball.
Hatten was clearly one of those guys. Even with Heron I think Ponds has the ball majority of the time.[/quote]

...but with viable options, maybe he’ll pass more, his assists / game will drift higher and his TOs lower...[/quote]

He def shoots better off the dribble. If need one basket still want him to take it. It is a delicate balance and Ponds will have to figure it out. Might take a bit and one of the reasons I think mid 20 something win predictions even with Heron are overly optimistic.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=291578][quote="Chicago Days" post=291576][quote="we are sju" post=291572]Unfortunately some guys just need the ball in their hands and are less effective w/o it. Not that they have to shoot it all the time just seem to get lost and drift through games when playing off the ball.
Hatten was clearly one of those guys. Even with Heron I think Ponds has the ball majority of the time.[/quote]

...but with viable options, maybe he’ll pass more, his assists / game will drift higher and his TOs lower...[/quote]

He def shoots better off the dribble. If need one basket still want him to take it. It is a delicate balance and Ponds will have to figure it out. Might take a bit and one of the reasons I think mid 20 something win predictions even with Heron are overly optimistic.[/quote]

You may be right but with Figueroa, hopefully Heron, and improved play from Simon and Clark, opponents will not be able to double and triple Sharmorie any longer.
That by itself will hopefully generate a few more wins.
I think the combo and blend of talented guards /wings, with Keita down low and Dixon in support, will be tough for most teams to prevail against.
We shall see.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=291579]

You may be right but with Figueroa, hopefully Heron, and improved play from Simon and Clark, opponents will not be able to double and triple Sharmorie any longer.
That by itself will hopefully generate a few more wins.
I think the combo and blend of talented guards /wings, with Keita down low and Dixon in support, will be tough for most teams to prevail against.
We shall see.[/quote]

That is true but I think the interior presence is the difference maker no matter how great the shooters are. What I saw was defenses often either A) completely ignoring the middle to defend us which makes sense because for the most part Owens was not a threat inside and Yakwe had problems catching the ball inside. They'd then collapse on Ponds and to a lesser extent Simon.

or B ) playing off other proven shooters like Clark to hedge on Ponds. If we have an actual presence in the middle this will make the defense work harder and necessitate it be spread out. Playing Ponds straight up is a problem for most teams. I only remember one team doing it well. Creighton.

I was watching some game highlights of Heron and he is a great shooter but also got a lot of play catching the ball down low and driving. You can't sleep on him any time. Him and Ponds on the floor and any defense that overplayed either one of them would get killed off the pass especially considering Clark is a great 3pt shooter and perhaps Figueroa will be out there. If Keita can catch the ball inside I think teams will have to play us straight defensively. Simon drive and kick. Open court look out!
 
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[quote="Paul Massell" post=291590][quote="Chicago Days" post=291579]

You may be right but with Figueroa, hopefully Heron, and improved play from Simon and Clark, opponents will not be able to double and triple Sharmorie any longer.
That by itself will hopefully generate a few more wins.
I think the combo and blend of talented guards /wings, with Keita down low and Dixon in support, will be tough for most teams to prevail against.
We shall see.[/quote]

That is true but I think the interior presence is the difference maker no matter how great the shooters are. What I saw was defenses often either A) completely ignoring the middle to defend us which makes sense because for the most part Owens was not a threat inside and Yakwe had problems catching the ball inside. They'd then collapse on Ponds and to a lesser extent Simon.

or B ) playing off other proven shooters like Clark to hedge on Ponds. If we have an actual presence in the middle this will make the defense work harder and necessitate it be spread out. Playing Ponds straight up is a problem for most teams. I only remember one team doing it well. Creighton.

I was watching some game highlights of Heron and he is a great shooter but also got a lot of play catching the ball down low and driving. You can't sleep on him any time. Him and Ponds on the floor and any defense that overplayed either one of them would get killed off the pass especially considering Clark is a great 3pt shooter and perhaps Figueroa will be out there. If Keita can catch the ball inside I think teams will have to play us straight defensively. Simon drive and kick. Open court look out![/quote]

Great points Paul.
I agree we need a post presence and think and hope Keita provides that.
It also would be great if Earlington provides 'some' bulk underneath at some points.
I continue to believe that our cluster of shooters and drivers (Figueroa also), with a post presence, will be tough to beat.
Hope so, at any rate!
 
Some semblance of post game, including offensive rebounding, is key. Not counting on much from Earlington & Roberts in year 1, but I do think both Keita and Clark can help there. To amplify Paul's point, Heron was a close 2nd on last year's Auburn team in free throw attempts. Don't get those without being able to take the ball to the hoop. Looking to be a very up year if MH is eligible and an exciting year either way!
 
[quote="redmannorth" post=291437]I believe we are an NCAA team without Heron. I agree with Class of 72 that there are a lot of pieces to integrate, but the 3 key pieces of Ponds , Simon and Clark are there. As long as Dixon and Keita play within their roles next season we will be fine.
Not to be a Debbie downer but my fear is that if Heron becomes eligible you have 2 players who will each be looking to move on after the season to the NBA and the same 2 players each need to dominate the ball. Everyone seems to be ignoring something called team chemistry which is key on a winning team. Will they want to share the ball, will they get enough touches. Anyone who has coached or watched a lot of bball knows this is a huge problem on many a team.
I know this will be a very unpopular position but I believe this team will be better served if Heron does not play next season and comes in the following year where he can be the man and provide us with a huge talent to replace Ponds.[/quote]
Still skeptical that Heron plays following year if he isn’t eligible this year. If he feels he is ready, assume he will try draft again.
 
I remember back in the old ECAC days, or whatever that old league was called, I didn't mind seeing the old Redmen in the NIT. Then came the Big East, and suddenly, I was no longer thinking about the NIT. I wanted to see Looie, Mullin, and the team in the Big Dance. Now, I am ashamed to say, the NIT would at least be something. But of course, I'll never fault any fan who wants to see St. John's in the NCAA. I just wonder if they could actually make it this year.
 
Against a small team, I would love to see CM play Ponds, Simon, Figgy, Heron and Clark as a unit
Imagine that group getting up and down the court
It would a lot of fun to watch!!
 
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[quote="Robert Eckler" post=291638]I remember back in the old ECAC days, or whatever that old league was called, I didn't mind seeing the old Redmen in the NIT. Then came the Big East, and suddenly, I was no longer thinking about the NIT. I wanted to see Looie, Mullin, and the team in the Big Dance. Now, I am ashamed to say, the NIT would at least be something. But of course, I'll never fault any fan who wants to see St. John's in the NCAA. I just wonder if they could actually make it this year.[/quote]

They could and, IMO, should make the NCAA this year
Barring injury to a key player, I think that's a realistic expectation
 
MarkRedman wrote: Against a small team, I would love to see CM play Ponds, Simon, Figgy, Heron and Clark as a unit
Imagine that group getting up and down the court
It would a lot of fun to watch!!

And let's not forget Dixon when we want to play small ball - I understand he is very quick as well.
 
[quote="MarkRedman" post=291642]Against a small team, I would love to see CM play Ponds, Simon, Figgy, Heron and Clark as a unit
Imagine that group getting up and down the court
It would a lot of fun to watch!![/quote]

With that lineup Heron would be center. Best post player in that group. Ponds power forward ;)
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=291646][quote="MarkRedman" post=291642]Against a small team, I would love to see CM play Ponds, Simon, Figgy, Heron and Clark as a unit
Imagine that group getting up and down the court
It would a lot of fun to watch!![/quote]

With that lineup Heron would be center. Best post player in that group. Ponds power forward ;)[/quote]

I'm really shocked that anyone thinks that won't be our starting lineup. I've assumed that's what it'll be since Heron transferred.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=291659][quote="Paul Massell" post=291646][quote="MarkRedman" post=291642]Against a small team, I would love to see CM play Ponds, Simon, Figgy, Heron and Clark as a unit
Imagine that group getting up and down the court
It would a lot of fun to watch!![/quote]

With that lineup Heron would be center. Best post player in that group. Ponds power forward ;)[/quote]

I'm really shocked that anyone thinks that won't be our starting lineup. I've assumed that's what it'll be since Heron transferred.[/quote] I think Keita starts either way, in order to give us at least some presence on the interior. If Heron is eligible, then I think Figueroa is the sixth man. It'll be nice for Mullin to not have to go with the waterboy when he makes a substitution this year.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=291661][quote="L J S A" post=291659][quote="Paul Massell" post=291646][quote="MarkRedman" post=291642]Against a small team, I would love to see CM play Ponds, Simon, Figgy, Heron and Clark as a unit
Imagine that group getting up and down the court
It would a lot of fun to watch!![/quote]

With that lineup Heron would be center. Best post player in that group. Ponds power forward ;)[/quote]

I'm really shocked that anyone thinks that won't be our starting lineup. I've assumed that's what it'll be since Heron transferred.[/quote] I think Keita starts either way, in order to give us at least some presence on the interior. If Heron is eligible, then I think Figueroa is the sixth man. It'll be nice for Mullin to not have to go with the waterboy when he makes a substitution this year.[/quote]

Ponds, Simon, Heron, Clark, Keita, Figueroa, and Dixon seem likely to be our top 7, with Trimble & Williams in support, and Earlington and Roberts seeing spot duty. Should be a high scoring team, with I hope lots of defensive intensity.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=291662][quote="SJU61982" post=291661][quote="L J S A" post=291659][quote="Paul Massell" post=291646][quote="MarkRedman" post=291642]Against a small team, I would love to see CM play Ponds, Simon, Figgy, Heron and Clark as a unit
Imagine that group getting up and down the court
It would a lot of fun to watch!![/quote]

With that lineup Heron would be center. Best post player in that group. Ponds power forward ;)[/quote]

I'm really shocked that anyone thinks that won't be our starting lineup. I've assumed that's what it'll be since Heron transferred.[/quote] I think Keita starts either way, in order to give us at least some presence on the interior. If Heron is eligible, then I think Figueroa is the sixth man. It'll be nice for Mullin to not have to go with the waterboy when he makes a substitution this year.[/quote]

Ponds, Simon, Heron, Clark, Keita, Figueroa, and Dixon seem likely to be our top 7, with Trimble & Williams in support, and Earlington and Roberts seeing spot duty. Should be a high scoring team, with I hope lots of defensive intensity.[/quote]

I think Earlington sees more minutes than Roberts. I never would have said that before seeing their summer classes pic, but Roberts was two inches shorter than I expected and way skinny. If we had anyone else 6'7" or taller, i could see Roberts being a redshirt candidate.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=291664][quote="Chicago Days" post=291662][quote="SJU61982" post=291661][quote="L J S A" post=291659][quote="Paul Massell" post=291646][quote="MarkRedman" post=291642]Against a small team, I would love to see CM play Ponds, Simon, Figgy, Heron and Clark as a unit
Imagine that group getting up and down the court
It would a lot of fun to watch!![/quote]

With that lineup Heron would be center. Best post player in that group. Ponds power forward ;)[/quote]

I'm really shocked that anyone thinks that won't be our starting lineup. I've assumed that's what it'll be since Heron transferred.[/quote] I think Keita starts either way, in order to give us at least some presence on the interior. If Heron is eligible, then I think Figueroa is the sixth man. It'll be nice for Mullin to not have to go with the waterboy when he makes a substitution this year.[/quote]

Ponds, Simon, Heron, Clark, Keita, Figueroa, and Dixon seem likely to be our top 7, with Trimble & Williams in support, and Earlington and Roberts seeing spot duty. Should be a high scoring team, with I hope lots of defensive intensity.[/quote]

I think Earlington sees more minutes than Roberts. I never would have said that before seeing their summer classes pic, but Roberts was two inches shorter than I expected and way skinny. If we had anyone else 6'7" or taller, i could see Roberts being a redshirt candidate.[/quote]

I think Earlington could be a real sleeper. Most people expected him to play D-1 football, so he wasn't heavily recruited for basketball. He has an Anthony Glover type body. Now that his full attention is on the hardwood, I can see him becoming a player in that mold some day.
 
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Chicago days wrote: Ponds, Simon, Heron, Clark, Keita, Figueroa, and Dixon seem likely to be our top 7, with Trimble & Williams in support, and Earlington and Roberts seeing spot duty. Should be a high scoring team, with I hope lots of defensive intensity.

Agree Chicago. Doesn't really matter which 5 of those 7 guy start, they will all get big minutes assuming MH plays. Especially if MH can play, we will also have deepest bench in several years, which will be a welcome change.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=291666]Chicago days wrote: Ponds, Simon, Heron, Clark, Keita, Figueroa, and Dixon seem likely to be our top 7, with Trimble & Williams in support, and Earlington and Roberts seeing spot duty. Should be a high scoring team, with I hope lots of defensive intensity.

Agree Chicago. Doesn't really matter which 5 of those 7 guy start, they will all get big minutes assuming MH plays. Especially if MH can play, we will also have deepest bench in several years, which will be a welcome change.[/quote]

We are doing a lot of speculating in August.;)

Unfortunately the reality is that Ponds, Simon and Clark are the only returning players with proven experience. Frankly, I didn't think Trimble would stick and needs a lot of overall improvement.
The rest of the team is basically new. Big ??? Everywhere.
Talent is definitely not an issue. Molding them into a team, that is the challenge.
What staff is on the practice court first day of practice could be a big determinant of success.
 
Class of 72 wrote:

NCJohnnie wrote: Chicago days wrote: Ponds, Simon, Heron, Clark, Keita, Figueroa, and Dixon seem likely to be our top 7, with Trimble & Williams in support, and Earlington and Roberts seeing spot duty. Should be a high scoring team, with I hope lots of defensive intensity.

Agree Chicago. Doesn't really matter which 5 of those 7 guy start, they will all get big minutes assuming MH plays. Especially if MH can play, we will also have deepest bench in several years, which will be a welcome change.

We are doing a lot of speculating in August.

Unfortunately the reality is that Ponds, Simon and Clark are the only returning players with proven experience. Frankly, I didn't think Trimble would stick and needs a lot of overall improvement.
The rest of the team is basically new. Big ??? Everywhere.
Talent is definitely not an issue. Molding them into a team, that is the challenge.
What staff is on the practice court first day of practice could be a big determinant of success.

Always some speculating with a new season Class of 72, nature of the beast. However, MH, if eligible, is a 4th player with very much proven ability at high major level even though new to us. There is little doubt that Dixon can play in BE as he was freshman of the year at a mid-major and I also think it reasonable to expect immediate contributions from LJ. I agree Rice would be a big help, but talent is paramount and we should have plenty. As Chicago would say, color me optimistic.
 
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