Why does it feel like this team is so close

bboycrispy

New member
Hey everyone I'm new here. Why does it feel like this team can compete with the very best in college basketball on any court and then with 5 minutes in the second half just get cooked ?? It has become very frustrating!! Today with Marquette up 15 and playing good defense and then total collapse. Lost by a basket at MSG. Two wins right there and a totally different season.
 
Hey everyone I'm new here. Why does it feel like this team can compete with the very best in college basketball on any court and then with 5 minutes in the second half just get cooked ?? It has become very frustrating!! Today with Marquette up 15 and playing good defense and then total collapse. Lost by a basket at MSG. Two wins right there and a totally different season.
The curse.
 
Hey everyone I'm new here. Why does it feel like this team can compete with the very best in college basketball on any court and then with 5 minutes in the second half just get cooked ?? It has become very frustrating!! Today with Marquette up 15 and playing good defense and then total collapse. Lost by a basket at MSG. Two wins right there and a totally different season.
Kinda like the time here with Mike Anderson. Thought it'd be different this season.
 
Being mired in mediocrity for so long and desperate to become a solid program, Rick winds up in our lap. He exudes confidence, has HOF chops and out of the gate told the world SJ would achieve excellence in short order. We bit on that gladly.

In portal era it does not gifted coaches long to rebuild. Rick obviously is gifted, but year one expectations seem more adrenaline driven than realistic. Next year to me will be challenging w turnover and portal crap shoot, but no choice but to trust Pitino will have program rolling in due time. One step at a time works for me.
 
Here is my take on this season. Rick basically threw the entire team out the door. Built a new team in less then a month. Have a few great kids coming in next year.. Zuby and wilcher are improving, brady is improving. This season to me is a success entertaining basketball from our red storm with key players coming in next year. Plus our teams starters came from Harvard, Iona, etc... And when rick said short time, he didnt say immediate. He meant a year or two. Most basketball coaches gets three years to build his team. Many are judging Rick on the work he did in a month. If you makes you feel better look at Georgetown. They stole Cooley and this year they are tanking. We get Pitino and doing better year one.
 
Why does it seem why we are so close? It's an optical illusion. Years ago, there was a supermarket chain in Florida called Grand Union. They handed out free scratch off tickets where you were given a number corresponding to a horse and a race. You would get a horse in a race with a winning prize of $1, $5 etc. with the big race worth $1,000. Then they would have the Grand Union show and show races from a decade ago. Amazing how they would find a replay for the $1,000 race where 5 horses finished with a few inches of each other. It always looked like you had a chance to win right until the wire. But you knew you didn't because you knew how the Grand Union game worked. There may have been one winning ticket among the tens of thousands handed out each week.

St. John's gives you the appearance that these games are for the taking. But then the other team's stars take over. It was Kolek last night, and Olivari against Xavier. For us, there is no big time star to make the big shot or big stop. To understand St, John's basketball, how many go to guys has the program had in the past 40 years? Maybe 6 or 7? Considering that 3 of them were on the same team, that leaves 4 in the past 4 decades, give or take. While basketball is a team oriented game, it's also about having stars that step up in crunch time. Or at least clutch players who thrive with the game on the line.
 
It's not surprising that we are where we are. The only reason why people had lofty expectations for this team was that Pitino became our coach. People expected miracles but miracles rarely happen. Every coach needs players to win. As the old saying goes, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ____"

Once he decided to jettison practically our entire roster, Pitino miraculously put together a roster that, on paper, looked like it could have been competitive this season. And, to his credit, we have competed against some nationally ranked opponents to some extent. But, as we all know, the roster is flawed. We don't have a true PG, Dingle has not been the player as advertised, Ledlum is a warrior but is undersized to be a PF, Soriano has fallen asleep at the wheel for the better part for the past 2-3 weeks, the freshmen (while promising) are not ready to contribute just yet, etc.

While we, as a fan base, are not patient, Pitino needs to time to structure a roster that fits his style of play. We have some building blocks on the current roster (Zuby, Luis, Wilcher and Dunlap) with more promising help on the way. Give coach a year or two and I am confident that we will rise from the ashes and, once again, be relevant.
 
Here is my take on this season. Rick basically threw the entire team out the door. Built a new team in less then a month. Have a few great kids coming in next year.. Zuby and wilcher are improving, brady is improving. This season to me is a success entertaining basketball from our red storm with key players coming in next year. Plus our teams starters came from Harvard, Iona, etc... And when rick said short time, he didnt say immediate. He meant a year or two. Most basketball coaches gets three years to build his team. Many are judging Rick on the work he did in a month. If you makes you feel better look at Georgetown. They stole Cooley and this year they are tanking. We get Pitino and doing better year one.
Rick said when he first got the job it we would be back and it wouldn't be a matter of years it would be a matter of months. That% means this season.
 
We're moving the goal posts for Rick. He expected us dancing in Year 1. If we don't, it's a failure. Period. Full stop.

It's why he jettisoned most of the roster, got fifth year seniors, etc. I think he underestimated Big East play, underestimated the topsy-turvyness of the portal, and underestimated the talent of some of the guys we had coming back. He had disadvantages, no doubt, but there's other teams that have dealt with more than us (Xavier, Providence) but are having better seasons and others who are making more with less (Seton Hall, Butler).
 
I think we have had this feeling before. It was just last season that we played #6 Big East Champion Marquette twice in March, losing by two points in the regular season and then going to overtime in the Big East Tournament and losing by 2 again. Earlier that season we went on the road against eventual National Champion UConn and beat them by double digits. The season before we had an 18 point second half lead against Big East Champion #8 Villanova (a team that eventually went to the Final four) before the refs hammered us and we wound up with a gut-wrenching one point Big East Tournament loss.

The problem is that we have been on the wrong side of these competitive, but losing efforts far more than we have been on the winning side for quite a while. For all of us who are looking for progress with St. John's there are a few benchmarks that would show true progress.

The first was to get off to a good start in conference play. We achieved that by winning four of our first five conference games. However, that accomplishment has been made to seem moot, because we lost six of our next eight Conference games.

The second is to have a run in the Big East tournament. It has been well more than two decades since we made it beyond the Big East quarter-finals. Doing that would be an indicator of the culture change we have been coveting.

The third is to get into the body of the NCAA tournament (First four does not count IMHO) and win a game to get to the round of 32. This has not been done by us since the turn of this century.

I believe that the third is obviously the most important of the three benchmarks and we all hope it will happen this season.

Despite our recent slump, whether we achieve benchmarks two and three has yet to be determined. If we can do these two things, I believe this will confirm the optimism that has been expressed here about the Pitino regime.

Pitino must be aware that these things are the most important accomplishments his team has to do, to be deemed successful. I am confident that he will do everything in his power to make it happen. Until we see how this all plays out, I would hesitate to make any definitive judgments about the success of the 2023-2024 season.
 
Being mired in mediocrity for so long and desperate to become a solid program, Rick winds up in our lap. He exudes confidence, has HOF chops and out of the gate told the world SJ would achieve excellence in short order. We bit on that gladly.

In portal era it does not gifted coaches long to rebuild. Rick obviously is gifted, but year one expectations seem more adrenaline driven than realistic. Next year to me will be challenging w turnover and portal crap shoot, but no choice but to trust Pitino will have program rolling in due time. One step at a time works for me.
I continue to believe momentum is critical in recruiting. Finish the season strong, show some growth and sneak into tournament and that will help us in the portal. Continue to flame out and that will hurt us.

I’m not pressing the panic button, but the analogies to Pitino’s prior teams in year one seem inapplicable given the new portal era. With constant influx of new players, no reason to think players will be any more accustomed to Rick’s system in year two. Similarly, with ability to infuse talent immediately, no reason Pitino’s team should struggle significantly in year one. It would be refreshing to hear Pitino take some of the blame for the results at one of his pressers.
 
I think we have had this feeling before. It was just last season that we played #6 Big East Champion Marquette twice in March, losing by two points in the regular season and then going to overtime in the Big East Tournament and losing by 2 again. Earlier that season we went on the road against eventual National Champion UConn and beat them by double digits. The season before we had an 18 point second half lead against Big East Champion #8 Villanova (a team that eventually went to the Final four) before the refs hammered us and we wound up with a gut-wrenching one point Big East Tournament loss.

The problem is that we have been on the wrong side of these competitive, but losing efforts far more than we have been on the winning side for quite a while. For all of us who are looking for progress with St. John's there are a few benchmarks that would show true progress.

The first was to get off to a good start in conference play. We achieved that by winning four of our first five conference games. However, that accomplishment has been made to seem moot, because we lost six of our next eight Conference games.

The second is to have a run in the Big East tournament. It has been well more than two decades since we made it beyond the Big East quarter-finals. Doing that would be an indicator of the culture change we have been coveting.

The third is to get into the body of the NCAA tournament (First four does not count IMHO) and win a game to get to the round of 32. This has not been done by us since the turn of this century.

I believe that the third is obviously the most important of the three benchmarks and we all hope it will happen this season.

Despite our recent slump, whether we achieve benchmarks two and three has yet to be determined. If we can do these two things, I believe this will confirm the optimism that has been expressed here about the Pitino regime.

Pitino must be aware that these things are the most important accomplishments his team has to do, to be deemed successful. I am confident that he will do everything in his power to make it happen. Until we see how this all plays out, I would hesitate to make any definitive judgments about the success of the 2023-2024 season.
Good post except Lavin got us into the field of 64 twice in the 2010s
 
Hey everyone I'm new here. Why does it feel like this team can compete with the very best in college basketball on any court and then with 5 minutes in the second half just get cooked ?? It has become very frustrating!! Today with Marquette up 15 and playing good defense and then total collapse. Lost by a basket at MSG. Two wins right there and a totally different season.
The collapses seem to happen b/c the opposition ratchets up half court defense, we respond with some bad shots and compound it by losing defensive focus just long enough to allow the lead to evaporate quickly and, as a result, the pressure ramps up and the spiral begins.

One problem (not the only one), IMO is that we have no other ball handler than Jenkins. He is the only one that can create anything (maybe Luis) and as a result our opponents deny him the ball once he gives it up.
 
Good post except Lavin got us into the field of 64 twice in the 2010s
Yes Lavin got us in but my post referenced advancing to the round of 32. (see below)

The third is to get into the body of the NCAA tournament (First four does not count IMHO) and win a game to get to the round of 32. This has not been done by us since the turn of this century.
 
Hey new member bboycrispy,

Welcome to Redfans. Don’t hesitate to post.
 
Yes Lavin got us in but my post referenced advancing to the round of 32. (see below)

The third is to get into the body of the NCAA tournament (First four does not count IMHO) and win a game to get to the round of 32. This has not been done by us since the turn of this century.
My bad.
 
It keeps coming up in many posts that Pitino jettisoned CMA players and that HE ruined a season this year as a result .

Lest anyone forget , Our Administration attended 1 practice last season and saw first hand a Team that was off the rails and had done some things that were inexcusable .

It’s easy to pin that on RP but , it isn’t true . And , he’s on record that he did want certain , few players back . Notably Storr and Oosh .

Both declined of their own will . What was RP to do ? Kiss their Ass?
Storr was on his way out even during the regular season and left quickly to join the portal . Posh ?

We can all speculate as to why he declined RP’s offer to return ? But , it was his decision .

Van Macon along with Fr Shanley and Mike Cragg gave Pitino the low down on last years players. The rebooting came from that .

Pitino expected Clayton jr and Jenkins to be his Backcourt . Clayton opted for Florida , his home state school .
Somebody pitched Pitino on Ledlum and Dingle .Ledlum’s is tough competitor but , small and slow for the BE. He isn’t a dangerous scorer . Works hard for 10 points a game and about that in rebounds .

Dingle just hasn’t lived up to his Rep as a scoring threat . It could be a lot of things. He is a step slow in guarding BE guards and can’t blow by defenders and get to the Rim . Shooting ? Mediocre at best . His role here was to score 16-18 points a game . Hasn’t come close

And , yes it appears the Chemistry between he and RP isn’t there .
And , if it’s he that can’t play with Jenkins , that’s on Jordan . Jenkins is the best and hardest playing player on this team . Plus Team leader ,

I think RP has got as much out of this team as possible . He had to install 4 new players into his lineup , along with Soriano . Joel has under performed the pre season hype and Coaches in the BE have exploited his weaknesses.

At best , our team is a 5 th or 6 th place BE team . Just as League Coaches predicted . At worst , we could be 9 th.
The only team we beat on the Road was Villanova . And , we have tough road games vs PC, Butler , coming up .

This season is not all lost tat this point but , Wins are crucial over the remainder of the season .

Stay hopeful .
 
They 100% have to learn how to close out games. This season has shown many positives and when a new class comes in it will get better and better. There were many defensive lapses vs Marquette that I would hope were corrected by now but the continue to make adjustments. We knew there would be highs and lows this season and if you didnt think that I am not sure what your expectations were.
 
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