What a Mess

[Mean Gene]

I think if you put Sanchez and Gift on this team the results are much different this year. Gift is a high energy guy who defends and rebounds and can score a little also. We could have used him yeaterday that's for sure. Sanchez, from what we all hear is the best player on the team. His offense and size are greatly missed. with him in the line up Sampson becomes your third option which would be fine for him as freshman and for where is game is currently at.

Next year we get Gift, and Lawrence to me is must get recruit. If we get Lawrence and Branch gets comfortable and plays consistently at the level that we see him play in flashes, this can be a ranked team next year.

They are the youngest team in the country this year. Kentucky is young also this year. They got blown out by 22 by Texas A&M yesterday. Texas A&M is not as good Georgetown, they're not even ranked. Kentucky is 10 - 5 this year and unranked, we're 9-6. That's the best analogy I can think of. I'm willing to give the whole Lavin thing one more year before I go totally nuts. Although, to be fair, I've complained just as much as anyone else on this board with regard to our performance this year.

 

[bk8664]

I think if you put Sanchez and Gift on this team the results are much different this year. Gift is a high energy guy who defends and rebounds and can score a little also. We could have used him yeaterday that's for sure. Sanchez, from what we all hear is the best player on the team. His offense and size are greatly missed. with him in the line up Sampson becomes your third option which would be fine for him as freshman and for where is game is currently at.

Next year we get Gift, and Lawrence to me is must get recruit. If we get Lawrence and Branch gets comfortable and plays consistently at the level that we see him play in flashes, this can be a ranked team next year.

They are the youngest team in the country this year. Kentucky is young also this year. They got blown out by 22 by Texas A&M yesterday. Texas A&M is not as good Georgetown, they're not even ranked. Kentucky is 10 - 5 this year and unranked, we're 9-6. That's the best analogy I can think of. I'm willing to give the whole Lavin thing one more year before I go totally nuts. Although, to be fair, I've complained just as much as anyone else on this board with regard to our performance this year.

Based on where this program has been the last 15 years, I would give Lavin even more than 1 more year. This program had basically regressed to disaster status before he showed up.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Been away awhile, but have remaned an admirer of the "spark" Lavin & his coaches ignited around the program. A few perspectives from an old school guy who has been around a while in the HS ranks, locally & nationally. (Still learning something everyday!)

His recruting classes ( even minus the non-qualifiers) have received nothing but stellar reviews from the recruiting experts. The make-up of his coaching staff received even higher marks. Obviously his being away from the program last year was not helpful.

What troubles me is the inside reports I heard about the immaturity of last years group to respond to the hard nosed demands of coach Dunlap's 'style' of playing HARD defense for 40 minutes a game. Couple that with the tendency to 'do it myself' mentality of the guards & the resulting losing record was to be expected. Obviously Dunlap KNIOWS HIS stuff, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten his NBA opportunity. Right now, it appears that last years rookies, this years 'young' vets need a refresher course in this regard.

You have a future Hall of Fame mentor at practice in Gene Keady who's Perdue teams reflected his U.S. Marine background, you have Tony Childs & 'Mo" Hicks who played hard nosed NYC hoops at the HS & College level & in the case of Mo coached his Rice HS teams to play a pressing style of D from the team bus to the court 24/7.

I've seen a few things that are puzzling to me. One is the solo play of the guards & really ANY wing player who receives a pass. They seem to take no more then 3 seconds before THEY decide "it's up to me do get to the hoop & score." Where are the passes to a cutting player? Where is the cutting player? Where are the screens for a player to get a better shot ? Most importantly to being a team that's in it to win it every game out, WHERE'S THE TOUGH IN YOUR FACE DEFENSE THAT KEEPS YOU IN GAMES UNTIL YOU FIND A WAY TO WIN ?

I don't know what's being emphasized at practice, but I do know that if you want to get a player's attention you tell him/them that IF YOU'RE NOT PLAYING HARD & UNSELFISH come take a seat. There are enough long, lean athletic players on the roster where a large dose of a pressing, trapping, ALL OUT defense for all 84 ft. & 40 minutes could be the spark to ignite this team & get the season on track. Mike Woodson used the same message with the Knicks & who can deny that the Knicks got better. And young Mr. Harrison & similar minded players, NO NBA SCOUT/TEAM/COACH IS IMPRESSED BY SELFISH, NOT SMART, DO IT YOURSELF PLAY. 6'2" shooting guards in college have to become a TEAM FIRST PG inorder to have a long term career. WAKE UP!

I've never been a "the ship be sinking guy", more a "row until the damm engine kicks in" guy. So hopefully Saturday's loss will be a wake-up call and we'll see a re-energized team vs ND. As in all things hoops, time will tell.

Appreciate your insights. Please post more often.

 

[Moose]

I think if you put Sanchez and Gift on this team the results are much different this year. Gift is a high energy guy who defends and rebounds and can score a little also. We could have used him yeaterday that's for sure. Sanchez, from what we all hear is the best player on the team. His offense and size are greatly missed. with him in the line up Sampson becomes your third option which would be fine for him as freshman and for where is game is currently at.

Next year we get Gift, and Lawrence to me is must get recruit. If we get Lawrence and Branch gets comfortable and plays consistently at the level that we see him play in flashes, this can be a ranked team next year.

They are the youngest team in the country this year. Kentucky is young also this year. They got blown out by 22 by Texas A&M yesterday. Texas A&M is not as good Georgetown, they're not even ranked. Kentucky is 10 - 5 this year and unranked, we're 9-6. That's the best analogy I can think of. I'm willing to give the whole Lavin thing one more year before I go totally nuts. Although, to be fair, I've complained just as much as anyone else on this board with regard to our performance this year.

We are not the youngest team in the country.

 

[beast of the east]

Not trying to spam. Just posted this in the Gtown thread, but belongs here:

on here.

I want to be very fair in this breakdown of Lavin's recruiting.

Year 1: Lavin had an entire roster to fill, and had to recruit for a program completely in the dumper. He was literally starting with virtually no program - a ten year record at the bottom of the Big East, and was going after guys that other coaches had a 2 or three year jump on. Hauling in Harkness and Harrison as the prizes, Lindsay (who tanked here), Garrett, Greene etc was a pretty nice start, along with Team Lavin turning NRs losing team into an NCAA tourney squad. All in all an A plus job or rebuilding

Year 2: Slowed by cancer, he comes up with Sampson, Branch, Obepka Balamou, Bourgault, Can't overstate how much the loss of harkness hurts. Sampson, Branch, Obepka are nice addditions, and with Harkness here, and Sampson as a third option (with offense from Greene and Branch) we could have beena tourney team.

Year 3: So far we haven't struck gold for next season, and that is a concern.

When you look at it this way it doesn't look horrible at all. Had Roberts left a squad with 3-4 underclassmen of Bif East ability (at the talent level of the starters that was on LAvin's 1st team) we'd be talking entirely differently today. So yea, as much as I'd hate to admit it, we are still in the hole that Norm left us in, and it will likely be felt until at least next year, and possibly won't be gone until the following year.

Tell me you are inebriated at a bar on 7th Ave. None of what you said justifies the current play of our team...none!
Last year, Dunlap had to manage a team of 5 freshmen and forget the record....they came better prepared than our current group of 12. Game management was much better also. Roberts excuses after hauling in 7 top 100 players??
LMAO!
FYI........Georgetown had 5 freshmen and 5 sophs on their team today.

Add a first round NBA pick to SJUs team and we are doing much better, no? Did Thompsom start recruiting two years ago from scratch, filling those 5 sophs in a few months, and did Thompsom start with the mess Lavin inherited?

Lavin did not inherit a mess! He inherited a bunch of under-recruited seniors who gave him 21 wins and a tourney selection. Are you that confident he can do that with his own players as juniors NEXT year???
If this same team hits the floor next year the only way Lavin wins 21 games is by the departure of Syracuse, ND, Louisville, Pitt, etc. and not with his own players who are underachieving more than Roberts' recruits since Norm's players had nowhere near the rankings coming in.
He "reportedly" (self reported) had two outstanding recruiting classes. Were they?
We have a promising shot blocking center who led in assists today but there is not one inside play designed to get him touches. We have a good point guard who cannot get more than one assist because our offensive scheme allows players to stand around.
It is one thing to get the players....quite another to develop them. Recruits will slowly get the message and will lean to schools with the "coaching".
Our coaches have a lot of work to do! They will have had 3 years to turn the corner. They are still quite a few NYC blocks away. I think it is time these out of towners got a subway map.

I couldn't disagree more with your assessments.

You are totally dismissive of where the program was the day Lavin set foot on campus. Do you really have to be reminded that Norm's overall record at SJU was 81-101, or that the group of seniors that Lavin got had gone 44-53 the previous three seasons? Or that his overall Big East record was 32-70, 17-37 with the group of under-recruited seniors.

That is one crazed assessment if you really believe Lavin inherited a seasoned group of upperclassmen. He took a team that finished 13th in the Big East at 6-12, and brought them to 21-12, 12-6 in league, and as high as 8th in the rankings.

Any coach who builds a team of seniors with nothing behind them has impending doom the following season. THAT is what Lavin inherited and any other way to spin this is pure nonsense.

We had not had an NBA player since Artest, and NR didn't recruit a Harkless, a Sampson, even a Harrison. No serious basketball player with high options would consider us, and suddenly Lavin is bringing in top 100 talent.

When you begin with a vacated roster as Lavin did two seasons ago, with less than a year to fill a complete roster, he did a pretty damned good job making us relevant again. RELEVENT, a word we used repeatedly during the end of Norm's tenure. We questioned whether SJU could ever be relevent in college basketball again.

So, even with a bout with cancer, with chemo kicking his ass, Lavin still has brought in some decent talent. Take away a jewel like Harkless, and we still have some decent talent on the roster after two classes. We all recognize the talent and experience of these kids is not enough TODAY to win consistently against Big East competition.

The reason we aren't ramming the ball into Obepka is that he is a pretty raw offensive player right now. Have you seen any offensiveskills on his part to think that dropping the ball into the low post to him for a one on one isolation will yield a mismatch or easy basket? Actually at this juncture, Obepka isnt even a good defender - he is ALWAYS looking to block shots, and is always out of position to defend and CERTAINLY to rebound. How else can you explain a shot blocking monster who doesn't rebound well?

What I'm frustrated with is the lack of cohesion on offense, the lack of ball movement without a ton of dribbling, the repeated draining of the shot clock. Our best offensive threat hangs out on the weak side, waiting for the ball to be swung to him as the clock ticks down. Once in his hands, he either fires it up, or shoots off the dribble,often ill advised shots, but makes a fair amount of shots.

What I see is a talented team of underclassmen that isn't quite talented enough to make up for their inexperience and lack of uppserclass leadership.

Some of you armchair experts are only focusing on wins and losses during the Roberts era. Would Lavin have had any better record with those same players, none of whom were nationally ranked?  I have my doubts.


, .

Come on 72. Lavin took those same exact Roberts players who won nothing collectively here and the following year ( his 1st with us ) gace us one of the most memorable regular seasons we've ever had and probably the best set of home game results at the garden I've ever had in 20 years since graduation

No way in hell Norm does that. You make good other points but come on now lets be a little fair with this.

So you give all the credit for that "memorable" first year with Roberts's players to Lavin??
Those kids had to adjust to a new coach and a new system in a matter of a few months. They were on the court, not Lavin, familiar with each others' game. The two players that had the hardest adjustment were DJ and Sean.....two kids closest to Norm.
For those here that like to play the Freshman, Soph, junior, senior cards.....Lavin had all seniors and one freshman that was his.....and quickly started the current tradition...of leaving the team.
I enjoy watching players play...not coaches coaching. I give some credit to Lavin in 2010' I give a lot more to our kids that had a major adjustment having to play for him.
P.S. May I remind you that the "bat" carried by those players belonged to Mike Dunlap. The practice I attended Justin had the honor. The next it was DJ.
Now we have a hammer but we cannot hit the rock. Winky!

I will offer to examples of Roberts lack any any coaching or assessment capabilities. Hardy wasn't put into a prime time situation until Lavin came aboard, and that transformed the team. Second, I'd submit that Roberts actually had a better team. I think if Lavin had Anthony Mason Jr, instead of Polee, without the Brownlee borken finger that derailed the team in february, we may have gone very deep into the tournament. I doubt Roberts could have squeezed 8 Big East wins out of that team.

On your personal notes, I'd say I'd challenge Kranmars do a Sunday sauce cookoff, especially if he calls it gravy. Not trying to pull him in, I've met him and he's a good guy. On the cancer note, unless you sleep next to Lavin, and even if you do, you have a lot of gall to suggest you know what it was like for him to recover from prostate cancer.

That being said, I don't disrepect your posts, just disagree with them.

 

[Class of 72]

Not trying to spam. Just posted this in the Gtown thread, but belongs here:

on here.

I want to be very fair in this breakdown of Lavin's recruiting.

Year 1: Lavin had an entire roster to fill, and had to recruit for a program completely in the dumper. He was literally starting with virtually no program - a ten year record at the bottom of the Big East, and was going after guys that other coaches had a 2 or three year jump on. Hauling in Harkness and Harrison as the prizes, Lindsay (who tanked here), Garrett, Greene etc was a pretty nice start, along with Team Lavin turning NRs losing team into an NCAA tourney squad. All in all an A plus job or rebuilding

Year 2: Slowed by cancer, he comes up with Sampson, Branch, Obepka Balamou, Bourgault, Can't overstate how much the loss of harkness hurts. Sampson, Branch, Obepka are nice addditions, and with Harkness here, and Sampson as a third option (with offense from Greene and Branch) we could have beena tourney team.

Year 3: So far we haven't struck gold for next season, and that is a concern.

When you look at it this way it doesn't look horrible at all. Had Roberts left a squad with 3-4 underclassmen of Bif East ability (at the talent level of the starters that was on LAvin's 1st team) we'd be talking entirely differently today. So yea, as much as I'd hate to admit it, we are still in the hole that Norm left us in, and it will likely be felt until at least next year, and possibly won't be gone until the following year.

Tell me you are inebriated at a bar on 7th Ave. None of what you said justifies the current play of our team...none!
Last year, Dunlap had to manage a team of 5 freshmen and forget the record....they came better prepared than our current group of 12. Game management was much better also. Roberts excuses after hauling in 7 top 100 players??
LMAO!
FYI........Georgetown had 5 freshmen and 5 sophs on their team today.

Add a first round NBA pick to SJUs team and we are doing much better, no? Did Thompsom start recruiting two years ago from scratch, filling those 5 sophs in a few months, and did Thompsom start with the mess Lavin inherited?

Lavin did not inherit a mess! He inherited a bunch of under-recruited seniors who gave him 21 wins and a tourney selection. Are you that confident he can do that with his own players as juniors NEXT year???
If this same team hits the floor next year the only way Lavin wins 21 games is by the departure of Syracuse, ND, Louisville, Pitt, etc. and not with his own players who are underachieving more than Roberts' recruits since Norm's players had nowhere near the rankings coming in.
He "reportedly" (self reported) had two outstanding recruiting classes. Were they?
We have a promising shot blocking center who led in assists today but there is not one inside play designed to get him touches. We have a good point guard who cannot get more than one assist because our offensive scheme allows players to stand around.
It is one thing to get the players....quite another to develop them. Recruits will slowly get the message and will lean to schools with the "coaching".
Our coaches have a lot of work to do! They will have had 3 years to turn the corner. They are still quite a few NYC blocks away. I think it is time these out of towners got a subway map.

I couldn't disagree more with your assessments.

You are totally dismissive of where the program was the day Lavin set foot on campus. Do you really have to be reminded that Norm's overall record at SJU was 81-101, or that the group of seniors that Lavin got had gone 44-53 the previous three seasons? Or that his overall Big East record was 32-70, 17-37 with the group of under-recruited seniors.

That is one crazed assessment if you really believe Lavin inherited a seasoned group of upperclassmen. He took a team that finished 13th in the Big East at 6-12, and brought them to 21-12, 12-6 in league, and as high as 8th in the rankings.

Any coach who builds a team of seniors with nothing behind them has impending doom the following season. THAT is what Lavin inherited and any other way to spin this is pure nonsense.

We had not had an NBA player since Artest, and NR didn't recruit a Harkless, a Sampson, even a Harrison. No serious basketball player with high options would consider us, and suddenly Lavin is bringing in top 100 talent.

When you begin with a vacated roster as Lavin did two seasons ago, with less than a year to fill a complete roster, he did a pretty damned good job making us relevant again. RELEVENT, a word we used repeatedly during the end of Norm's tenure. We questioned whether SJU could ever be relevent in college basketball again.

So, even with a bout with cancer, with chemo kicking his ass, Lavin still has brought in some decent talent. Take away a jewel like Harkless, and we still have some decent talent on the roster after two classes. We all recognize the talent and experience of these kids is not enough TODAY to win consistently against Big East competition.

The reason we aren't ramming the ball into Obepka is that he is a pretty raw offensive player right now. Have you seen any offensiveskills on his part to think that dropping the ball into the low post to him for a one on one isolation will yield a mismatch or easy basket? Actually at this juncture, Obepka isnt even a good defender - he is ALWAYS looking to block shots, and is always out of position to defend and CERTAINLY to rebound. How else can you explain a shot blocking monster who doesn't rebound well?

What I'm frustrated with is the lack of cohesion on offense, the lack of ball movement without a ton of dribbling, the repeated draining of the shot clock. Our best offensive threat hangs out on the weak side, waiting for the ball to be swung to him as the clock ticks down. Once in his hands, he either fires it up, or shoots off the dribble,often ill advised shots, but makes a fair amount of shots.

What I see is a talented team of underclassmen that isn't quite talented enough to make up for their inexperience and lack of uppserclass leadership.

Some of you armchair experts are only focusing on wins and losses during the Roberts era. Would Lavin have had any better record with those same players, none of whom were nationally ranked?  I have my doubts.


, .

Come on 72. Lavin took those same exact Roberts players who won nothing collectively here and the following year ( his 1st with us ) gace us one of the most memorable regular seasons we've ever had and probably the best set of home game results at the garden I've ever had in 20 years since graduation

No way in hell Norm does that. You make good other points but come on now lets be a little fair with this.

So you give all the credit for that "memorable" first year with Roberts's players to Lavin??
Those kids had to adjust to a new coach and a new system in a matter of a few months. They were on the court, not Lavin, familiar with each others' game. The two players that had the hardest adjustment were DJ and Sean.....two kids closest to Norm.
For those here that like to play the Freshman, Soph, junior, senior cards.....Lavin had all seniors and one freshman that was his.....and quickly started the current tradition...of leaving the team.
I enjoy watching players play...not coaches coaching. I give some credit to Lavin in 2010' I give a lot more to our kids that had a major adjustment having to play for him.
P.S. May I remind you that the "bat" carried by those players belonged to Mike Dunlap. The practice I attended Justin had the honor. The next it was DJ.
Now we have a hammer but we cannot hit the rock. Winky!

I will offer to examples of Roberts lack any any coaching or assessment capabilities. Hardy wasn't put into a prime time situation until Lavin came aboard, and that transformed the team. Second, I'd submit that Roberts actually had a better team. I think if Lavin had Anthony Mason Jr, instead of Polee, without the Brownlee borken finger that derailed the team in february, we may have gone very deep into the tournament. I doubt Roberts could have squeezed 8 Big East wins out of that team.

On your personal notes, I'd say I'd challenge Kranmars do a Sunday sauce cookoff, especially if he calls it gravy. Not trying to pull him in, I've met him and he's a good guy. On the cancer note, unless you sleep next to Lavin, and even if you do, you have a lot of gall to suggest you know what it was like for him to recover from prostate cancer.

That being said, I don't disrepect your posts, just disagree with them.

I never mind anyone disagreeing with me and that is what this board is all about. If everyone was in a blind lockstep and only interested in their own views it would be a very boring place to visit!
You are free to PM me about the cancer issue as I will not go further on this very public board.
As for Kranmars and SundY sauce, you can be sure his family never called it gravy.LOL!

 

[mjmaherjr]

It's confirmed. The only time Kranmars ( son of Italian Immigrants who owned a restaurant here on Long Island ) has ever eaten gravy is on Thanksgiving

 

[kranmars]

Not trying to spam. Just posted this in the Gtown thread, but belongs here:

on here.

I want to be very fair in this breakdown of Lavin's recruiting.

Year 1: Lavin had an entire roster to fill, and had to recruit for a program completely in the dumper. He was literally starting with virtually no program - a ten year record at the bottom of the Big East, and was going after guys that other coaches had a 2 or three year jump on. Hauling in Harkness and Harrison as the prizes, Lindsay (who tanked here), Garrett, Greene etc was a pretty nice start, along with Team Lavin turning NRs losing team into an NCAA tourney squad. All in all an A plus job or rebuilding

Year 2: Slowed by cancer, he comes up with Sampson, Branch, Obepka Balamou, Bourgault, Can't overstate how much the loss of harkness hurts. Sampson, Branch, Obepka are nice addditions, and with Harkness here, and Sampson as a third option (with offense from Greene and Branch) we could have beena tourney team.

Year 3: So far we haven't struck gold for next season, and that is a concern.

When you look at it this way it doesn't look horrible at all. Had Roberts left a squad with 3-4 underclassmen of Bif East ability (at the talent level of the starters that was on LAvin's 1st team) we'd be talking entirely differently today. So yea, as much as I'd hate to admit it, we are still in the hole that Norm left us in, and it will likely be felt until at least next year, and possibly won't be gone until the following year.

Tell me you are inebriated at a bar on 7th Ave. None of what you said justifies the current play of our team...none!
Last year, Dunlap had to manage a team of 5 freshmen and forget the record....they came better prepared than our current group of 12. Game management was much better also. Roberts excuses after hauling in 7 top 100 players??
LMAO!
FYI........Georgetown had 5 freshmen and 5 sophs on their team today.

Add a first round NBA pick to SJUs team and we are doing much better, no? Did Thompsom start recruiting two years ago from scratch, filling those 5 sophs in a few months, and did Thompsom start with the mess Lavin inherited?

Lavin did not inherit a mess! He inherited a bunch of under-recruited seniors who gave him 21 wins and a tourney selection. Are you that confident he can do that with his own players as juniors NEXT year???
If this same team hits the floor next year the only way Lavin wins 21 games is by the departure of Syracuse, ND, Louisville, Pitt, etc. and not with his own players who are underachieving more than Roberts' recruits since Norm's players had nowhere near the rankings coming in.
He "reportedly" (self reported) had two outstanding recruiting classes. Were they?
We have a promising shot blocking center who led in assists today but there is not one inside play designed to get him touches. We have a good point guard who cannot get more than one assist because our offensive scheme allows players to stand around.
It is one thing to get the players....quite another to develop them. Recruits will slowly get the message and will lean to schools with the "coaching".
Our coaches have a lot of work to do! They will have had 3 years to turn the corner. They are still quite a few NYC blocks away. I think it is time these out of towners got a subway map.

I couldn't disagree more with your assessments.

You are totally dismissive of where the program was the day Lavin set foot on campus. Do you really have to be reminded that Norm's overall record at SJU was 81-101, or that the group of seniors that Lavin got had gone 44-53 the previous three seasons? Or that his overall Big East record was 32-70, 17-37 with the group of under-recruited seniors.

That is one crazed assessment if you really believe Lavin inherited a seasoned group of upperclassmen. He took a team that finished 13th in the Big East at 6-12, and brought them to 21-12, 12-6 in league, and as high as 8th in the rankings.

Any coach who builds a team of seniors with nothing behind them has impending doom the following season. THAT is what Lavin inherited and any other way to spin this is pure nonsense.

We had not had an NBA player since Artest, and NR didn't recruit a Harkless, a Sampson, even a Harrison. No serious basketball player with high options would consider us, and suddenly Lavin is bringing in top 100 talent.

When you begin with a vacated roster as Lavin did two seasons ago, with less than a year to fill a complete roster, he did a pretty damned good job making us relevant again. RELEVENT, a word we used repeatedly during the end of Norm's tenure. We questioned whether SJU could ever be relevent in college basketball again.

So, even with a bout with cancer, with chemo kicking his ass, Lavin still has brought in some decent talent. Take away a jewel like Harkless, and we still have some decent talent on the roster after two classes. We all recognize the talent and experience of these kids is not enough TODAY to win consistently against Big East competition.

The reason we aren't ramming the ball into Obepka is that he is a pretty raw offensive player right now. Have you seen any offensiveskills on his part to think that dropping the ball into the low post to him for a one on one isolation will yield a mismatch or easy basket? Actually at this juncture, Obepka isnt even a good defender - he is ALWAYS looking to block shots, and is always out of position to defend and CERTAINLY to rebound. How else can you explain a shot blocking monster who doesn't rebound well?

What I'm frustrated with is the lack of cohesion on offense, the lack of ball movement without a ton of dribbling, the repeated draining of the shot clock. Our best offensive threat hangs out on the weak side, waiting for the ball to be swung to him as the clock ticks down. Once in his hands, he either fires it up, or shoots off the dribble,often ill advised shots, but makes a fair amount of shots.

What I see is a talented team of underclassmen that isn't quite talented enough to make up for their inexperience and lack of uppserclass leadership.

Some of you armchair experts are only focusing on wins and losses during the Roberts era. Would Lavin have had any better record with those same players, none of whom were nationally ranked?  I have my doubts.


, .

Come on 72. Lavin took those same exact Roberts players who won nothing collectively here and the following year ( his 1st with us ) gace us one of the most memorable regular seasons we've ever had and probably the best set of home game results at the garden I've ever had in 20 years since graduation

No way in hell Norm does that. You make good other points but come on now lets be a little fair with this.

So you give all the credit for that "memorable" first year with Roberts's players to Lavin??
Those kids had to adjust to a new coach and a new system in a matter of a few months. They were on the court, not Lavin, familiar with each others' game. The two players that had the hardest adjustment were DJ and Sean.....two kids closest to Norm.
For those here that like to play the Freshman, Soph, junior, senior cards.....Lavin had all seniors and one freshman that was his.....and quickly started the current tradition...of leaving the team.
I enjoy watching players play...not coaches coaching. I give some credit to Lavin in 2010' I give a lot more to our kids that had a major adjustment having to play for him.
P.S. May I remind you that the "bat" carried by those players belonged to Mike Dunlap. The practice I attended Justin had the honor. The next it was DJ.
Now we have a hammer but we cannot hit the rock. Winky!

I will offer to examples of Roberts lack any any coaching or assessment capabilities. Hardy wasn't put into a prime time situation until Lavin came aboard, and that transformed the team. Second, I'd submit that Roberts actually had a better team. I think if Lavin had Anthony Mason Jr, instead of Polee, without the Brownlee borken finger that derailed the team in february, we may have gone very deep into the tournament. I doubt Roberts could have squeezed 8 Big East wins out of that team.

On your personal notes, I'd say I'd challenge Kranmars do a Sunday sauce cookoff, especially if he calls it gravy. Not trying to pull him in, I've met him and he's a good guy. On the cancer note, unless you sleep next to Lavin, and even if you do, you have a lot of gall to suggest you know what it was like for him to recover from prostate cancer.

That being said, I don't disrepect your posts, just disagree with them.

I never mind anyone disagreeing with me and that is what this board is all about. If everyone was in a blind lockstep and only interested in their own views it would be a very boring place to visit!
You are free to PM me about the cancer issue as I will not go further on this very public board.
As for Kranmars and SundY sauce, you can be sure his family never called it gravy.LOL!

I have no idea where this thread is going, and I do not care either. But when I am alerted that I was accused of calling sauce, gravy, I had to interject. I cook and am born of Italian immigrants. The term gravy is blasphemous. You are lucky you do not get b*tch slapped by a linguine al dente. I will put my cooking up against others here.

 

[Class of 72]

Not trying to spam. Just posted this in the Gtown thread, but belongs here:

on here.

I want to be very fair in this breakdown of Lavin's recruiting.

Year 1: Lavin had an entire roster to fill, and had to recruit for a program completely in the dumper. He was literally starting with virtually no program - a ten year record at the bottom of the Big East, and was going after guys that other coaches had a 2 or three year jump on. Hauling in Harkness and Harrison as the prizes, Lindsay (who tanked here), Garrett, Greene etc was a pretty nice start, along with Team Lavin turning NRs losing team into an NCAA tourney squad. All in all an A plus job or rebuilding

Year 2: Slowed by cancer, he comes up with Sampson, Branch, Obepka Balamou, Bourgault, Can't overstate how much the loss of harkness hurts. Sampson, Branch, Obepka are nice addditions, and with Harkness here, and Sampson as a third option (with offense from Greene and Branch) we could have beena tourney team.

Year 3: So far we haven't struck gold for next season, and that is a concern.

When you look at it this way it doesn't look horrible at all. Had Roberts left a squad with 3-4 underclassmen of Bif East ability (at the talent level of the starters that was on LAvin's 1st team) we'd be talking entirely differently today. So yea, as much as I'd hate to admit it, we are still in the hole that Norm left us in, and it will likely be felt until at least next year, and possibly won't be gone until the following year.

Tell me you are inebriated at a bar on 7th Ave. None of what you said justifies the current play of our team...none!
Last year, Dunlap had to manage a team of 5 freshmen and forget the record....they came better prepared than our current group of 12. Game management was much better also. Roberts excuses after hauling in 7 top 100 players??
LMAO!
FYI........Georgetown had 5 freshmen and 5 sophs on their team today.

Add a first round NBA pick to SJUs team and we are doing much better, no? Did Thompsom start recruiting two years ago from scratch, filling those 5 sophs in a few months, and did Thompsom start with the mess Lavin inherited?

Lavin did not inherit a mess! He inherited a bunch of under-recruited seniors who gave him 21 wins and a tourney selection. Are you that confident he can do that with his own players as juniors NEXT year???
If this same team hits the floor next year the only way Lavin wins 21 games is by the departure of Syracuse, ND, Louisville, Pitt, etc. and not with his own players who are underachieving more than Roberts' recruits since Norm's players had nowhere near the rankings coming in.
He "reportedly" (self reported) had two outstanding recruiting classes. Were they?
We have a promising shot blocking center who led in assists today but there is not one inside play designed to get him touches. We have a good point guard who cannot get more than one assist because our offensive scheme allows players to stand around.
It is one thing to get the players....quite another to develop them. Recruits will slowly get the message and will lean to schools with the "coaching".
Our coaches have a lot of work to do! They will have had 3 years to turn the corner. They are still quite a few NYC blocks away. I think it is time these out of towners got a subway map.

I couldn't disagree more with your assessments.

You are totally dismissive of where the program was the day Lavin set foot on campus. Do you really have to be reminded that Norm's overall record at SJU was 81-101, or that the group of seniors that Lavin got had gone 44-53 the previous three seasons? Or that his overall Big East record was 32-70, 17-37 with the group of under-recruited seniors.

That is one crazed assessment if you really believe Lavin inherited a seasoned group of upperclassmen. He took a team that finished 13th in the Big East at 6-12, and brought them to 21-12, 12-6 in league, and as high as 8th in the rankings.

Any coach who builds a team of seniors with nothing behind them has impending doom the following season. THAT is what Lavin inherited and any other way to spin this is pure nonsense.

We had not had an NBA player since Artest, and NR didn't recruit a Harkless, a Sampson, even a Harrison. No serious basketball player with high options would consider us, and suddenly Lavin is bringing in top 100 talent.

When you begin with a vacated roster as Lavin did two seasons ago, with less than a year to fill a complete roster, he did a pretty damned good job making us relevant again. RELEVENT, a word we used repeatedly during the end of Norm's tenure. We questioned whether SJU could ever be relevent in college basketball again.

So, even with a bout with cancer, with chemo kicking his ass, Lavin still has brought in some decent talent. Take away a jewel like Harkless, and we still have some decent talent on the roster after two classes. We all recognize the talent and experience of these kids is not enough TODAY to win consistently against Big East competition.

The reason we aren't ramming the ball into Obepka is that he is a pretty raw offensive player right now. Have you seen any offensiveskills on his part to think that dropping the ball into the low post to him for a one on one isolation will yield a mismatch or easy basket? Actually at this juncture, Obepka isnt even a good defender - he is ALWAYS looking to block shots, and is always out of position to defend and CERTAINLY to rebound. How else can you explain a shot blocking monster who doesn't rebound well?

What I'm frustrated with is the lack of cohesion on offense, the lack of ball movement without a ton of dribbling, the repeated draining of the shot clock. Our best offensive threat hangs out on the weak side, waiting for the ball to be swung to him as the clock ticks down. Once in his hands, he either fires it up, or shoots off the dribble,often ill advised shots, but makes a fair amount of shots.

What I see is a talented team of underclassmen that isn't quite talented enough to make up for their inexperience and lack of uppserclass leadership.

Some of you armchair experts are only focusing on wins and losses during the Roberts era. Would Lavin have had any better record with those same players, none of whom were nationally ranked?  I have my doubts.


, .

Come on 72. Lavin took those same exact Roberts players who won nothing collectively here and the following year ( his 1st with us ) gace us one of the most memorable regular seasons we've ever had and probably the best set of home game results at the garden I've ever had in 20 years since graduation

No way in hell Norm does that. You make good other points but come on now lets be a little fair with this.

So you give all the credit for that "memorable" first year with Roberts's players to Lavin??
Those kids had to adjust to a new coach and a new system in a matter of a few months. They were on the court, not Lavin, familiar with each others' game. The two players that had the hardest adjustment were DJ and Sean.....two kids closest to Norm.
For those here that like to play the Freshman, Soph, junior, senior cards.....Lavin had all seniors and one freshman that was his.....and quickly started the current tradition...of leaving the team.
I enjoy watching players play...not coaches coaching. I give some credit to Lavin in 2010' I give a lot more to our kids that had a major adjustment having to play for him.
P.S. May I remind you that the "bat" carried by those players belonged to Mike Dunlap. The practice I attended Justin had the honor. The next it was DJ.
Now we have a hammer but we cannot hit the rock. Winky!

Those kids showed NO sign they were ever going to win. They would NEVER have done what they did if Norm was here or if they had to play on their own.

Ever think they won because of the System that Lavin implemented and they learned ?

For crying out loud look at who we beat that year and how we beat them.

Methinks if I went back and looked at your posts from that season that you would have been giving Lavin plenty of credit

What's happened this year is certianly open for criticism and some anger ( especially yesterdays game ) but lets not reinvent history.

Save the energy and writing for potentially welcoming Jermaine Lawrence according to SJU79

LOL!
You just gave the credit to Norm's kids and may not have realized it? Some of these players were tutored in a different "system" for almost 3 years. Dwight, just one, so the learning curve for him was an easier adjustment.
Why would I not have given coach Lavin credit???? I hope I did! But I also know who did the heavy lifting at practices and that task belonged to Mike. Tony's role was minimal at practices and Rico was there to work one-on-one with the players. The idea of the "bat" was not Lavin's. He is too easygoing for that approach.
What you also seem to be saying is these players who were underachievers and lacked BB savvy were able to learn and adjust to the Steve (Mike) system in a matter of weeks, and have a remarkable Big East season, yet Lavin's own recruits appear to be on a much slower curve, play more selfish, and just "don't get it" yet, especially our very experienced sophs who played two years worth of minutes last season!?!
I can only describe the past two seasons to date as a state of flux, with the emphasis on flux.
We need more than Lawrence next year and that was my objection to Lavin's pompous Tweet.
Finally, stop the Sunday drinking binges (LOL) and I do not reinvent history.....I give my interpretation of its meaning and relevance.

 

[Marillac]

I am embarassed to call myself a St. John's fan right now due to all of these reactions. You guys knock Lavin like he is clueless. The bottom line is that this team lacks skill and arguably the most skilled player on the roster has been sitting at the end of the bench. Sanchez cures a lot of this team's ills: lack of size, skill, and strength.

Otto Porter killed STJ yesterday. Moe was better than Porter...imagine if he returned? Lavin would all of a sudden be a much better coach to most. You guys are sick of the "young team" line, but it is what it is. Amir needs15- 20 pounds of muscle, Pointer needs some seasoning, and most of the roster needs to find their roles with all the new players.

At least give Lavin the chance to have a single junior that he recruited on the roster before you crush him. As spectacular as Obkepa can be at times, he shouldn't be playing more than 15-20 mpg. STJ has had Branch for four games...let's give the team a freaking chance to grow. It's only January 13th!!!

 

[Mean Gene]

I think if you put Sanchez and Gift on this team the results are much different this year. Gift is a high energy guy who defends and rebounds and can score a little also. We could have used him yeaterday that's for sure. Sanchez, from what we all hear is the best player on the team. His offense and size are greatly missed. with him in the line up Sampson becomes your third option which would be fine for him as freshman and for where is game is currently at.

Next year we get Gift, and Lawrence to me is must get recruit. If we get Lawrence and Branch gets comfortable and plays consistently at the level that we see him play in flashes, this can be a ranked team next year.

They are the youngest team in the country this year. Kentucky is young also this year. They got blown out by 22 by Texas A&M yesterday. Texas A&M is not as good Georgetown, they're not even ranked. Kentucky is 10 - 5 this year and unranked, we're 9-6. That's the best analogy I can think of. I'm willing to give the whole Lavin thing one more year before I go totally nuts. Although, to be fair, I've complained just as much as anyone else on this board with regard to our performance this year.

We are not the youngest team in the country.

That being said Moose, Kentucky is still not as young as we are ( although they are a young team) and has players that were more highly ranked recruits that the players on our team and they're having their growing pains also. When do ever remember a Kentucky team coached by wither Calipari, Tubby Smith or Pitino getting blown out by Texas A&M? It just didn't happen. But, they're young this year so they're getting games like that.

 

[Moose]

I think if you put Sanchez and Gift on this team the results are much different this year. Gift is a high energy guy who defends and rebounds and can score a little also. We could have used him yeaterday that's for sure. Sanchez, from what we all hear is the best player on the team. His offense and size are greatly missed. with him in the line up Sampson becomes your third option which would be fine for him as freshman and for where is game is currently at.

Next year we get Gift, and Lawrence to me is must get recruit. If we get Lawrence and Branch gets comfortable and plays consistently at the level that we see him play in flashes, this can be a ranked team next year.

They are the youngest team in the country this year. Kentucky is young also this year. They got blown out by 22 by Texas A&M yesterday. Texas A&M is not as good Georgetown, they're not even ranked. Kentucky is 10 - 5 this year and unranked, we're 9-6. That's the best analogy I can think of. I'm willing to give the whole Lavin thing one more year before I go totally nuts. Although, to be fair, I've complained just as much as anyone else on this board with regard to our performance this year.

We are not the youngest team in the country.

That being said Moose, Kentucky is still not as young as we are ( although they are a young team) and has players that were more highly ranked recruits that the players on our team and they're having their growing pains also. When do ever remember a Kentucky team coached by wither Calipari, Tubby Smith or Pitino getting blown out by Texas A&M? It just didn't happen. But, they're young this year so they're getting games like that.

By the way Kentucky lost by 12 not 22.

They have 7 scholarship players. Yes most are a lot higher ranked than ours. But coming off a National Championship where they had what 5 or 6 guys drafted into the NBA. I don't think the comparison hold much when compared to us.

 

[beast of the east]

Not trying to spam. Just posted this in the Gtown thread, but belongs here:

on here.

I want to be very fair in this breakdown of Lavin's recruiting.

Year 1: Lavin had an entire roster to fill, and had to recruit for a program completely in the dumper. He was literally starting with virtually no program - a ten year record at the bottom of the Big East, and was going after guys that other coaches had a 2 or three year jump on. Hauling in Harkness and Harrison as the prizes, Lindsay (who tanked here), Garrett, Greene etc was a pretty nice start, along with Team Lavin turning NRs losing team into an NCAA tourney squad. All in all an A plus job or rebuilding

Year 2: Slowed by cancer, he comes up with Sampson, Branch, Obepka Balamou, Bourgault, Can't overstate how much the loss of harkness hurts. Sampson, Branch, Obepka are nice addditions, and with Harkness here, and Sampson as a third option (with offense from Greene and Branch) we could have beena tourney team.

Year 3: So far we haven't struck gold for next season, and that is a concern.

When you look at it this way it doesn't look horrible at all. Had Roberts left a squad with 3-4 underclassmen of Bif East ability (at the talent level of the starters that was on LAvin's 1st team) we'd be talking entirely differently today. So yea, as much as I'd hate to admit it, we are still in the hole that Norm left us in, and it will likely be felt until at least next year, and possibly won't be gone until the following year.

Tell me you are inebriated at a bar on 7th Ave. None of what you said justifies the current play of our team...none!
Last year, Dunlap had to manage a team of 5 freshmen and forget the record....they came better prepared than our current group of 12. Game management was much better also. Roberts excuses after hauling in 7 top 100 players??
LMAO!
FYI........Georgetown had 5 freshmen and 5 sophs on their team today.

Add a first round NBA pick to SJUs team and we are doing much better, no? Did Thompsom start recruiting two years ago from scratch, filling those 5 sophs in a few months, and did Thompsom start with the mess Lavin inherited?

Lavin did not inherit a mess! He inherited a bunch of under-recruited seniors who gave him 21 wins and a tourney selection. Are you that confident he can do that with his own players as juniors NEXT year???
If this same team hits the floor next year the only way Lavin wins 21 games is by the departure of Syracuse, ND, Louisville, Pitt, etc. and not with his own players who are underachieving more than Roberts' recruits since Norm's players had nowhere near the rankings coming in.
He "reportedly" (self reported) had two outstanding recruiting classes. Were they?
We have a promising shot blocking center who led in assists today but there is not one inside play designed to get him touches. We have a good point guard who cannot get more than one assist because our offensive scheme allows players to stand around.
It is one thing to get the players....quite another to develop them. Recruits will slowly get the message and will lean to schools with the "coaching".
Our coaches have a lot of work to do! They will have had 3 years to turn the corner. They are still quite a few NYC blocks away. I think it is time these out of towners got a subway map.

I couldn't disagree more with your assessments.

You are totally dismissive of where the program was the day Lavin set foot on campus. Do you really have to be reminded that Norm's overall record at SJU was 81-101, or that the group of seniors that Lavin got had gone 44-53 the previous three seasons? Or that his overall Big East record was 32-70, 17-37 with the group of under-recruited seniors.

That is one crazed assessment if you really believe Lavin inherited a seasoned group of upperclassmen. He took a team that finished 13th in the Big East at 6-12, and brought them to 21-12, 12-6 in league, and as high as 8th in the rankings.

Any coach who builds a team of seniors with nothing behind them has impending doom the following season. THAT is what Lavin inherited and any other way to spin this is pure nonsense.

We had not had an NBA player since Artest, and NR didn't recruit a Harkless, a Sampson, even a Harrison. No serious basketball player with high options would consider us, and suddenly Lavin is bringing in top 100 talent.

When you begin with a vacated roster as Lavin did two seasons ago, with less than a year to fill a complete roster, he did a pretty damned good job making us relevant again. RELEVENT, a word we used repeatedly during the end of Norm's tenure. We questioned whether SJU could ever be relevent in college basketball again.

So, even with a bout with cancer, with chemo kicking his ass, Lavin still has brought in some decent talent. Take away a jewel like Harkless, and we still have some decent talent on the roster after two classes. We all recognize the talent and experience of these kids is not enough TODAY to win consistently against Big East competition.

The reason we aren't ramming the ball into Obepka is that he is a pretty raw offensive player right now. Have you seen any offensiveskills on his part to think that dropping the ball into the low post to him for a one on one isolation will yield a mismatch or easy basket? Actually at this juncture, Obepka isnt even a good defender - he is ALWAYS looking to block shots, and is always out of position to defend and CERTAINLY to rebound. How else can you explain a shot blocking monster who doesn't rebound well?

What I'm frustrated with is the lack of cohesion on offense, the lack of ball movement without a ton of dribbling, the repeated draining of the shot clock. Our best offensive threat hangs out on the weak side, waiting for the ball to be swung to him as the clock ticks down. Once in his hands, he either fires it up, or shoots off the dribble,often ill advised shots, but makes a fair amount of shots.

What I see is a talented team of underclassmen that isn't quite talented enough to make up for their inexperience and lack of uppserclass leadership.

Some of you armchair experts are only focusing on wins and losses during the Roberts era. Would Lavin have had any better record with those same players, none of whom were nationally ranked?  I have my doubts.


, .

Come on 72. Lavin took those same exact Roberts players who won nothing collectively here and the following year ( his 1st with us ) gace us one of the most memorable regular seasons we've ever had and probably the best set of home game results at the garden I've ever had in 20 years since graduation

No way in hell Norm does that. You make good other points but come on now lets be a little fair with this.

So you give all the credit for that "memorable" first year with Roberts's players to Lavin??
Those kids had to adjust to a new coach and a new system in a matter of a few months. They were on the court, not Lavin, familiar with each others' game. The two players that had the hardest adjustment were DJ and Sean.....two kids closest to Norm.
For those here that like to play the Freshman, Soph, junior, senior cards.....Lavin had all seniors and one freshman that was his.....and quickly started the current tradition...of leaving the team.
I enjoy watching players play...not coaches coaching. I give some credit to Lavin in 2010' I give a lot more to our kids that had a major adjustment having to play for him.
P.S. May I remind you that the "bat" carried by those players belonged to Mike Dunlap. The practice I attended Justin had the honor. The next it was DJ.
Now we have a hammer but we cannot hit the rock. Winky!

I will offer to examples of Roberts lack any any coaching or assessment capabilities. Hardy wasn't put into a prime time situation until Lavin came aboard, and that transformed the team. Second, I'd submit that Roberts actually had a better team. I think if Lavin had Anthony Mason Jr, instead of Polee, without the Brownlee borken finger that derailed the team in february, we may have gone very deep into the tournament. I doubt Roberts could have squeezed 8 Big East wins out of that team.

On your personal notes, I'd say I'd challenge Kranmars do a Sunday sauce cookoff, especially if he calls it gravy. Not trying to pull him in, I've met him and he's a good guy. On the cancer note, unless you sleep next to Lavin, and even if you do, you have a lot of gall to suggest you know what it was like for him to recover from prostate cancer.

That being said, I don't disrepect your posts, just disagree with them.

I never mind anyone disagreeing with me and that is what this board is all about. If everyone was in a blind lockstep and only interested in their own views it would be a very boring place to visit!
You are free to PM me about the cancer issue as I will not go further on this very public board.
As for Kranmars and SundY sauce, you can be sure his family never called it gravy.LOL!

I have no idea where this thread is going, and I do not care either. But when I am alerted that I was accused of calling sauce, gravy, I had to interject. I cook and am born of Italian immigrants. The term gravy is blasphemous. You are lucky you do not get b*tch slapped by a linguine al dente. I will put my cooking up against others here.

Thank God, I didn't want to get into any debate over whether tomato sauce is called gravy or anything else. No disrepect, but I cook pretty well for a non-rpfessional. No one accused you of calling sauce gravy - and I'm relieved you don't.

 

[beast of the east]

I think if you put Sanchez and Gift on this team the results are much different this year. Gift is a high energy guy who defends and rebounds and can score a little also. We could have used him yeaterday that's for sure. Sanchez, from what we all hear is the best player on the team. His offense and size are greatly missed. with him in the line up Sampson becomes your third option which would be fine for him as freshman and for where is game is currently at.

Next year we get Gift, and Lawrence to me is must get recruit. If we get Lawrence and Branch gets comfortable and plays consistently at the level that we see him play in flashes, this can be a ranked team next year.

They are the youngest team in the country this year. Kentucky is young also this year. They got blown out by 22 by Texas A&M yesterday. Texas A&M is not as good Georgetown, they're not even ranked. Kentucky is 10 - 5 this year and unranked, we're 9-6. That's the best analogy I can think of. I'm willing to give the whole Lavin thing one more year before I go totally nuts. Although, to be fair, I've complained just as much as anyone else on this board with regard to our performance this year.

We are not the youngest team in the country.

That being said Moose, Kentucky is still not as young as we are ( although they are a young team) and has players that were more highly ranked recruits that the players on our team and they're having their growing pains also. When do ever remember a Kentucky team coached by wither Calipari, Tubby Smith or Pitino getting blown out by Texas A&M? It just didn't happen. But, they're young this year so they're getting games like that.

By the way Kentucky lost by 12 not 22.

They have 7 scholarship players. Yes most are a lot higher ranked than ours. But coming off a National Championship where they had what 5 or 6 guys drafted into the NBA. I don't think the comparison hold much when compared to us.

Moose, you can't compare Kentucky to SJU. KEntucky can, has, and will recruit top 10 players consistently. They can lose three guys to the NBA and reload immediately. We at best can reside consistently in the top 15-25 if history means anything. Anything much higher is an aberration. Kentucky's program has consistently lived in the top ten.

 

[Moose]

I think if you put Sanchez and Gift on this team the results are much different this year. Gift is a high energy guy who defends and rebounds and can score a little also. We could have used him yeaterday that's for sure. Sanchez, from what we all hear is the best player on the team. His offense and size are greatly missed. with him in the line up Sampson becomes your third option which would be fine for him as freshman and for where is game is currently at.

Next year we get Gift, and Lawrence to me is must get recruit. If we get Lawrence and Branch gets comfortable and plays consistently at the level that we see him play in flashes, this can be a ranked team next year.

They are the youngest team in the country this year. Kentucky is young also this year. They got blown out by 22 by Texas A&M yesterday. Texas A&M is not as good Georgetown, they're not even ranked. Kentucky is 10 - 5 this year and unranked, we're 9-6. That's the best analogy I can think of. I'm willing to give the whole Lavin thing one more year before I go totally nuts. Although, to be fair, I've complained just as much as anyone else on this board with regard to our performance this year.

We are not the youngest team in the country.

That being said Moose, Kentucky is still not as young as we are ( although they are a young team) and has players that were more highly ranked recruits that the players on our team and they're having their growing pains also. When do ever remember a Kentucky team coached by wither Calipari, Tubby Smith or Pitino getting blown out by Texas A&M? It just didn't happen. But, they're young this year so they're getting games like that.

By the way Kentucky lost by 12 not 22.

They have 7 scholarship players. Yes most are a lot higher ranked than ours. But coming off a National Championship where they had what 5 or 6 guys drafted into the NBA. I don't think the comparison hold much when compared to us.

Moose, you can't compare Kentucky to SJU. KEntucky can, has, and will recruit top 10 players consistently. They can lose three guys to the NBA and reload immediately. We at best can reside consistently in the top 15-25 if history means anything. Anything much higher is an aberration. Kentucky's program has consistently lived in the top ten.

I wasn't.
The poster I replied to was.

 

[boo haarvey]

I think if you put Sanchez and Gift on this team the results are much different this year. Gift is a high energy guy who defends and rebounds and can score a little also. We could have used him yeaterday that's for sure. Sanchez, from what we all hear is the best player on the team. His offense and size are greatly missed. with him in the line up Sampson becomes your third option which would be fine for him as freshman and for where is game is currently at.

Next year we get Gift, and Lawrence to me is must get recruit. If we get Lawrence and Branch gets comfortable and plays consistently at the level that we see him play in flashes, this can be a ranked team next year.

They are the youngest team in the country this year. Kentucky is young also this year. They got blown out by 22 by Texas A&M yesterday. Texas A&M is not as good Georgetown, they're not even ranked. Kentucky is 10 - 5 this year and unranked, we're 9-6. That's the best analogy I can think of. I'm willing to give the whole Lavin thing one more year before I go totally nuts. Although, to be fair, I've complained just as much as anyone else on this board with regard to our performance this year.

I don't understand all this talk about Sanchez improving our offense. As I understand it, the kid averaged less than nine points a game in jc competition last year. I think Marco averaged more pts per game if that tells you anything.

 

[Moose]

I think if you put Sanchez and Gift on this team the results are much different this year. Gift is a high energy guy who defends and rebounds and can score a little also. We could have used him yeaterday that's for sure. Sanchez, from what we all hear is the best player on the team. His offense and size are greatly missed. with him in the line up Sampson becomes your third option which would be fine for him as freshman and for where is game is currently at.

Next year we get Gift, and Lawrence to me is must get recruit. If we get Lawrence and Branch gets comfortable and plays consistently at the level that we see him play in flashes, this can be a ranked team next year.

They are the youngest team in the country this year. Kentucky is young also this year. They got blown out by 22 by Texas A&M yesterday. Texas A&M is not as good Georgetown, they're not even ranked. Kentucky is 10 - 5 this year and unranked, we're 9-6. That's the best analogy I can think of. I'm willing to give the whole Lavin thing one more year before I go totally nuts. Although, to be fair, I've complained just as much as anyone else on this board with regard to our performance this year.

I don't understand all this talk about Sanchez improving our offense. As I understand it, the kid averaged less than nine points a game in jc competition last year. I think Marco averaged more pts per game if that tells you anything.

I've watched many Monroe games. Unselfish player. Plays well within the framework of the game. The PG and SG took insane amount of shots. He is the goods there is no doubt. Too bad we may never get to see it.

 

[simplyred]

I am embarassed to call myself a St. John's fan right now due to all of these reactions. You guys knock Lavin like he is clueless. The bottom line is that this team lacks skill and arguably the most skilled player on the roster has been sitting at the end of the bench. Sanchez cures a lot of this team's ills: lack of size, skill, and strength.

Otto Porter killed STJ yesterday. Moe was better than Porter...imagine if he returned? Lavin would all of a sudden be a much better coach to most. You guys are sick of the "young team" line, but it is what it is. Amir needs15- 20 pounds of muscle, Pointer needs some seasoning, and most of the roster needs to find their roles with all the new players.

At least give Lavin the chance to have a single junior that he recruited on the roster before you crush him. As spectacular as Obkepa can be at times, he shouldn't be playing more than 15-20 mpg. STJ has had Branch for four games...let's give the team a freaking chance to grow. It's only January 13th!!!

Excellent post!

 

[ZanMan]

Some of you need to take a breath and step back from the ledge.

I was at the game yesterday, spent a small fortune on tickets and LIRR train fare to take my son to his first MSG game, so trust me, I was not a happy camper. My son was listening to his iPod touch by the second TV timeout. How could I blame him...I was fighting him for it so I could distract myself from the performance in front of my eyes. He had the stronger grip and kept possession. He also astutely observed that the CYO teams at halftime played about as well as the redmen.

That being said, Coach Lavin is a winner, and I have full faith in him that he will turn this around. Why don't we wait and see what the final conference record is before we start panicking? Hey, I wanted to come back sooner than this too, but we hit a few bumps that brought us off course a little. You can't deny his cancer was a major, major setback, but we all know that isn't something he wanted. Not making excuses, just pointing out reality.

Personally, I'm not expecting too much from this group this year, but let's wait and see. They still can go .500 in conference, which would be huge IMO.

Next year is the real test IMO. If we aren't a tournament team in 2014, the honeymoon is over and Coach will rightfully be getting a lot of criticism. Even then, I feel he is entitled to another year to turn this around. Yes, this kind of thinking had me support Norm for way too long, but at least Coach Lavin has the pedigree.

So, I will patiently wait and root these kids on. A few wins in a row, and we are feeling much different.

We are...

 

[LINY89]

Next year is the year. Then next year it's next year and then the next and the next.