Very unrealistic expectations
- Thread starter we are sju
- Start date
Class of 72
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How appropriate Paul!
Especially since so many of the threads here end with an " Airing of Grievances " .
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
Some kielbasa will fix that
First I like Christmas, it is the most American of holidays celebrating conspicuous consumption and sloth, two things at which I excel. Agree with the OP on unrealistic expectations. This team is too incomplete to be great on a consistent basis. A Syracuse like surprise or two is more likely with this team than last year's miracle but you can't ride two basketball players and a few athletes to the top levels of D1 ball. Not surprised Fred and Malik disappeared against the first real backcourt they faced, hope they can improve to the point where they make some form of contribution in the future but they both looked awful against Minny. Ahmed I think it's still too early to tell, he's got to raise his game quite a bit, this ain't JC anymore. I agree RF might be better as the season goes along but as a whole the front court is not at a level to be very competitive in the BE. My biggest bright spot besides Marcus and Shamori? Yankuba's FT shooting. Happy Turkey Day to the Turkiest Message Board I know.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
While the theme here is avoiding judgment based on a 3 game sample, some of the same posters are expressing disappointment in our frontcourt 3 games in. What is unreasonable is expecting Yakwe to develop offensive skills in one summer that most players have been honing since they were kids. Despite Yakwe being an elite athlete, he is a raw talent. Sima is a nice athlete, but also is raw. It is possible that they never become the offensive threats that everyone is hoping for. It would be interesting to know who is working with them on post moves. Does anyone know who worked with Billy Paultz? He looked hopeless when he arrived at SJU, and showed incredible improvement.
As for backcourts, I expect Lovett and Ponds to be our best ever. Funny thing is that neither one may make the NBA because of size issues. Rencher and Carter were one of our better backcourts. Cater made the NBA. Can't recall if Rencher was drafted. Mullin and anybody. But SJU never had a backcourt with 2 dynamic scorers and shooters like we have now.
As for backcourts, I expect Lovett and Ponds to be our best ever. Funny thing is that neither one may make the NBA because of size issues. Rencher and Carter were one of our better backcourts. Cater made the NBA. Can't recall if Rencher was drafted. Mullin and anybody. But SJU never had a backcourt with 2 dynamic scorers and shooters like we have now.
Excellent post. Carter and Rencher were both transfers as I recall. Reggie Carter may be the least heralded of our top echelon players. He was quietly one of the best - perhaps the best in that role. I don't think they played in the BE.
It says a lot that we're comparing Ponds and Lovett to these guys after three games. These type of backcourts have been playing north of us for the past 15 years - in cuse and storrs. It's about time we have one in Queens. Thanks to Mullin and staff.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
We have had individual players with breakout seasons. Boo Harvey and David Cain come to mind. But a freshman backcourt this productive 3 games in to their careers? We are going to win a lot of big games while both are here.. Add a 6'8" or so inside threat, and it's not stretching things to say that a top 10 ranking is possible in a year or 2. Carter brought us within a bucket of the final 4. Since an elite 8 is a once every 15 or 20 year encounter for us, it's not hard to remember the players that got us there.
Don't know why I keep seeing posters state that Lovett & Ponds are too small for the NBA. 6'0 and 6'1 is not too small for the point guard position. Both guys will be drafted and play in the NBA someday. And in Lovetts case, it will probably be sooner than many here think. If he sticks around for even 3 years consider it fortunate. He will be a starter on the NBA level in my opinion.
we are sju
Active member
Again that 3 game thing but just my take is if you are a smaller guard you need to be lightening quick and though far from slow I would not put Lovett in that category. He is more crafty with good quickness. Shoots much better than I had imagined. Nice touch.
If Ponds can learn to play point he has a slightly better shot. Again just my opinion and hope we don't find out for 4 years.
beast of the east
Active member
Ok, this entire conversation has reached epic proportions of ridiculousness from one end of the spectrum to the other.
In a little more than a day, after just one meaningful D1 game against a Big Ten opponent that was as miserable as we were last season, proclaimed our new backcourt as the best ever at St. John's to speaking of their NBA futures.
WeAreSJU is correct. Basketball as a former college player and neighbor once said to me, is unforgiving when it comes to size. If you are short in stature, you'd better be lightning quick, a great ball handler, and a lights out shooter. In other words, a total package outside of size. Before we proclaim Ponds and Lovett anything, let's see how they perform over the course of a daunting season against top notch competition, where guards are the most abundant talent.
I know the next conversation will be how high in the lottery these one and done players may be, but I hope the conversation doesn't turn to how they should retire right now while their stock is high and just wait for the draft next spring.
In a little more than a day, after just one meaningful D1 game against a Big Ten opponent that was as miserable as we were last season, proclaimed our new backcourt as the best ever at St. John's to speaking of their NBA futures.
WeAreSJU is correct. Basketball as a former college player and neighbor once said to me, is unforgiving when it comes to size. If you are short in stature, you'd better be lightning quick, a great ball handler, and a lights out shooter. In other words, a total package outside of size. Before we proclaim Ponds and Lovett anything, let's see how they perform over the course of a daunting season against top notch competition, where guards are the most abundant talent.
I know the next conversation will be how high in the lottery these one and done players may be, but I hope the conversation doesn't turn to how they should retire right now while their stock is high and just wait for the draft next spring.
Really? Lovett is not lightening quick? He is as quick as they come.
Just to be clear, I had pretty low expectations for the frontcourt coming in but hoped they had improved substantially over the summer. Yakwe and Yankuba showed they were great athletes with mediocre basketball skills last year. Those types of guys need to become better basketball players to really make an impact in the game and I don't see that much progress so far, beside Yankuba's FT shooting.
we are sju
Active member
Again for his size would need to be John Wall quick and he is not that from what I can see. We are talking pros here for some reason and I don't see pro speed for 6 foot guy. Just my opinion.
I concur size is a limiting factor for NBA for both players. For me it is great to just enjoy them. If they both stick around three or for years & don't opt to go earn money somewhere, this duo will make us extremely happy. Considering all the frustrations for a long time, man this could be a great ride.
beast of the east
Active member
To be balanced, we have had a number of guys who from the first game they played for us, they showed they were very capable to very special. Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, and David Russell come to mind.
Russell never seemed to improve much more than he was as a freshman, and fell decidedly short of an NBA talent.
Berry even though he won the Wooden Award had the hex put on him by Red Auerbach who in pre-draft interviews said he didn't want any part of him because he didn't play defense. His stock plummeted to 14th (or so) in the draft, and as the baseball saying goes, went from "Cy Young to Sayonara"
Mullin was Mullin through and through. A quote from "A River Runs through it" referring to the brother played by Brad Pitt and in reference to his prowess as a fly fisherman is “At that moment I knew, surely and clearly, that I was witnessing perfection." Mullin as a player even with physical limitations was that kind of player. Few are, and even fewer make it to the NBA Hall of Fame.
Russell never seemed to improve much more than he was as a freshman, and fell decidedly short of an NBA talent.
Berry even though he won the Wooden Award had the hex put on him by Red Auerbach who in pre-draft interviews said he didn't want any part of him because he didn't play defense. His stock plummeted to 14th (or so) in the draft, and as the baseball saying goes, went from "Cy Young to Sayonara"
Mullin was Mullin through and through. A quote from "A River Runs through it" referring to the brother played by Brad Pitt and in reference to his prowess as a fly fisherman is “At that moment I knew, surely and clearly, that I was witnessing perfection." Mullin as a player even with physical limitations was that kind of player. Few are, and even fewer make it to the NBA Hall of Fame.