Up Next: Creighton

[jr49]

It's amazing to me that branch made one bad play when he threw it off the backboard, and he didn't see the floor again. Nobody else on the team has that short a leash. Greene doesn't fight through a screen and ends up getting posted up on a center, and they get an easy bucket, but he gets to stay in the game.

Branch played 23 minutes and gave us very little. He played the first 4 minutes of the second half, and not his fault alone but thats where the game was lost. Dom only played 12 minutes and was on the bench to start the second half. I have not knocked the coach all season because I believe it's up to the players to play. Doms on the team to create havoc with Creighton's offense to start the second half. Thats a part of the game we have had trouble with. Why was Branch out there. You sayin Branch has the short leash, but he got 23 minutes. Dom , who we needed out there got 12 and was on the bench at the worst time possible. Not saying Branch not useful, but I think he plays timid. We never gonna win with offense. I want the wild guy out there going full speed. Of course I might be wrong, but I have given up our winning with a conventional offense.

Your right.
I wanted to see Dom back in the game so he could pick up another foul that had to go to the monitors to be reviewed.

Dom is a specialist. That D on McD was special. Was that play the start of our first half run? Still think Dom should be starting the second half. Of course the team coming out like like delicate flowers made me sure I was right. If Branch had made a play during that time I might have thought it was the way to go. Pointer had 3 assists in a few minutes in the first half, team had 5. I can buy Branch being out there when Sheed sits, but why 3 guards when we defending Godzilla. Branch gonna bite his toe?

Im pretty sure Jamal was on the court for a big part of our second half run. Cant remember the time and score exactly. He didnt have his best game thats for sure, but unlike dom, he has to be respected on offense. He may not hit the jumpshot but if he gets in the lane he can create a shot for someone else. The other teams literally give Dom 5 feet of room. It is like playing 4-5. His defense is so overrated it is unbelievable. He had a blocked shot in the first half which to a casual observer may have looked like a great play, but in reality if you really looked he slowed up to let the guy go in for the layup so that he could attempt the block instead of just sprinting ahead and forcing him to take a tough shot. It is false hustle, and he does it EVERYTIME. If I could have anyone on the team get less then ten minutes it would be dom. Its said to, becasue he has so much potential, I just have never seen a player play so far away from his strengths. He should be going after every offensive rebound, he should be killing people with solid, not cheap, screens, and he should be a monster on the baseline. Instead he wants the ball 30 feet from the hoop on offense and he wants to reach 90 feet from the rim on defense. Its sad really.

Mase, everything you say is right. Thing is I got stuck with him as my favorite player. When we getting beat up at the start of the half and he's sitting, I'm pissed. If we had three top guards on the team I'm ok with Branch. We only got 2 so I want to see three bigs in the game.

 

[westchesterjoe]

I don't think anyone mentioned the Sampson dunk. Great highlight.

Yes, I agree it was a highlight play worthy of ESPN or Fox Sports Replay..It happens so rarely though on a team of gazelles.. As has been elaborated ad infintum , we are not very good offensive rebounders so it was good to see Sampson's effort on this play. In my eyes, he needs more of them and less of the 15 ' jumpers from the corner that aren't his strong suit.

I also have a heads up for Steve.. You had a NORM'S leftover player in Hardy that almost singlehandedly delivered you a NCAA bid in year 1.. Hardy had exactly the type game, that this club lacks, a stud guard who can shoot the J and from 3 pt range, yet also beats you off the dribble in prime time, a la last second against PITT, in MSG. Harrison isn't that player btw.

Steve, wake up and try and get this type of player because the team won't win, without it.. COTTON, on PC is almost a Hardy clone although he isn't quite the outside threat Dwight was. This is the athlete we need , Steve.. Frankly, I'm surprised you don't realize this missing piece yourself? Jordan might develop a better J but, he's really more go to the rim guard than jump shooter.At least at this stage of development.

 

[ras]

I think it is pretty obvious we need another Big and a shooter like you said.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

It's amazing to me that branch made one bad play when he threw it off the backboard, and he didn't see the floor again. Nobody else on the team has that short a leash. Greene doesn't fight through a screen and ends up getting posted up on a center, and they get an easy bucket, but he gets to stay in the game.

Branch played 23 minutes and gave us very little. He played the first 4 minutes of the second half, and not his fault alone but thats where the game was lost. Dom only played 12 minutes and was on the bench to start the second half. I have not knocked the coach all season because I believe it's up to the players to play. Doms on the team to create havoc with Creighton's offense to start the second half. Thats a part of the game we have had trouble with. Why was Branch out there. You sayin Branch has the short leash, but he got 23 minutes. Dom , who we needed out there got 12 and was on the bench at the worst time possible. Not saying Branch not useful, but I think he plays timid. We never gonna win with offense. I want the wild guy out there going full speed. Of course I might be wrong, but I have given up our winning with a conventional offense.

Your right.
I wanted to see Dom back in the game so he could pick up another foul that had to go to the monitors to be reviewed.

Dom is a specialist. That D on McD was special. Was that play the start of our first half run? Still think Dom should be starting the second half. Of course the team coming out like like delicate flowers made me sure I was right. If Branch had made a play during that time I might have thought it was the way to go. Pointer had 3 assists in a few minutes in the first half, team had 5. I can buy Branch being out there when Sheed sits, but why 3 guards when we defending Godzilla. Branch gonna bite his toe?

Im pretty sure Jamal was on the court for a big part of our second half run. Cant remember the time and score exactly. He didnt have his best game thats for sure, but unlike dom, he has to be respected on offense. He may not hit the jumpshot but if he gets in the lane he can create a shot for someone else. The other teams literally give Dom 5 feet of room. It is like playing 4-5. His defense is so overrated it is unbelievable. He had a blocked shot in the first half which to a casual observer may have looked like a great play, but in reality if you really looked he slowed up to let the guy go in for the layup so that he could attempt the block instead of just sprinting ahead and forcing him to take a tough shot. It is false hustle, and he does it EVERYTIME. If I could have anyone on the team get less then ten minutes it would be dom. Its said to, becasue he has so much potential, I just have never seen a player play so far away from his strengths. He should be going after every offensive rebound, he should be killing people with solid, not cheap, screens, and he should be a monster on the baseline. Instead he wants the ball 30 feet from the hoop on offense and he wants to reach 90 feet from the rim on defense. Its sad really.

Mase, everything you say is right. Thing is I got stuck with him as my favorite player. When we getting beat up at the start of the half and he's sitting, I'm pissed. If we had three top guards on the team I'm ok with Branch. We only got 2 so I want to see three bigs in the game.

Admire your loyalty! Steve was once my favorite st johns coach lol. Im a guard so of course I am guard oriented. I think the opposite of the way you do.

 

[Ray Morgan]

I don't like beating up on the coach when things go wrong. I leave that for the rest of you. So I lived with the decision to put Obekpa on Mcdermott for the final play. If that was even the plan. Then I thought of something I am pretty sure the late, great Jimmy V said. He said he would never let the other team's star beat him, because stars step up under pressure, while average players often wilt. He would double or triple team and take his chances with anyone else. Since it was all Dougie M. yesterday, no one else was doing much, and no one was in a groove. How is it possible that Doug wasn't double teamed and denied the ball the final possession? Why not leave Obekpa back to protect the rim? That's where he goes by nature anyway. Does anyone know if coach was asked post game what the plan was? As for me, I foul on the inbound as long as it's not Doug, and take my chances someone freezes at the line. They weren't even in the double bonus yet. Our best case scenario playing it straight was overtime. I like the old baseball adage of playing for a tie at home, but a win on the road.

 

[Class of 72]

I don't like beating up on the coach when things go wrong. I leave that for the rest of you. So I lived with the decision to put Obekpa on Mcdermott for the final play. If that was even the plan. Then I thought of something I am pretty sure the late, great Jimmy V said. He said he would never let the other team's star beat him, because stars step up under pressure, while average players often wilt. He would double or triple team and take his chances with anyone else. Since it was all Dougie M. yesterday, no one else was doing much, and no one was in a groove. How is it possible that Doug wasn't double teamed and denied the ball the final possession? Why not leave Obekpa back to protect the rim? That's where he goes by nature anyway. Does anyone know if coach was asked post game what the plan was? As for me, I foul on the inbound as long as it's not Doug, and take my chances someone freezes at the line. They weren't even in the double bonus yet. Our best case scenario playing it straight was overtime. I like the old baseball adage of playing for a tie at home, but a win on the road.

I doubt Lavin told Obekpa to guard McDermott and it was typical of our breakdown in communication and freelance defense that contributed to that shot. We have lazy defenders one on one and to concede a record game to McDermott borders on basketball coaching malpractice. I agree with Jimmy V that you do your best to take the opposing team's best player out of the game by driving on him or doubling him or denying him passes. That said, the guy was unconscious against us and was able to get off something like 25 shots because we were never close enough to him on defense. Epic defensive fail by all responsible parties.

 

[beast of the east]

I don't like beating up on the coach when things go wrong. I leave that for the rest of you. So I lived with the decision to put Obekpa on Mcdermott for the final play. If that was even the plan. Then I thought of something I am pretty sure the late, great Jimmy V said. He said he would never let the other team's star beat him, because stars step up under pressure, while average players often wilt. He would double or triple team and take his chances with anyone else. Since it was all Dougie M. yesterday, no one else was doing much, and no one was in a groove. How is it possible that Doug wasn't double teamed and denied the ball the final possession? Why not leave Obekpa back to protect the rim? That's where he goes by nature anyway. Does anyone know if coach was asked post game what the plan was? As for me, I foul on the inbound as long as it's not Doug, and take my chances someone freezes at the line. They weren't even in the double bonus yet. Our best case scenario playing it straight was overtime. I like the old baseball adage of playing for a tie at home, but a win on the road.

I doubt Lavin told Obekpa to guard McDermott and it was typical of our breakdown in communication and freelance defense that contributed to that shot. We have lazy defenders one on one and to concede a record game to McDermott borders on basketball coaching malpractice. I agree with Jimmy V that you do your best to take the opposing team's best player out of the game by driving on him or doubling him or denying him passes. That said, the guy was unconscious against us and was able to get off something like 25 shots because we were never close enough to him on defense. Epic defensive fail by all responsible parties.

Just watched the DVR'd end of game. the damn networks all schedule games for two hours, and as such the DVR stops when the game goes over 2 hours. I didn't see the very end, but watch the Jordan offensive 8 times, slowing it down. There was no question Jordan had his man beat and the defender slid over into his path just before Jordan took off. Without a doubt a block.

More than blaming Obekpa, Harrison by all means should have jumped out on McDermott. Obekpa could have laid back to double him if he drove, or pick up anyone else in the lane. Harrison looked frozen from my recollection, and didn't react at all in terms of jumping out to get McDermott. I don't know if that was a coachable moment, and it's unclear that Obekpa was assigned to guard McDermott. If so that was a mistake. On the previous possession, Sampson guarded McDermott closely on a forced drive to the basket and wild shot.

 

[simplyred]

Beast, you can always add extra time to the recording. I always add an extra hour in case the game goes to quadruple overtime.

 

[bamafan]

Beast, you can always add extra time to the recording. I always add an extra hour in case the game goes to quadruple overtime.

And if that is too complicated for you just record the show that follow. Actually agree with Ray Morgan-11 seconds left, still in the one and one, foul their worse ft shooter and they probably miss or make one and you have last possession to win game (would have Sheed drive to rim).

 

[simplyred]

Beast, you can always add extra time to the recording. I always add an extra hour in case the game goes to quadruple overtime.

And if that is too complicated for you just record the show that follow. Actually agree with Ray Morgan-11 seconds left, still in the one and one, foul their worse ft shooter and they probably miss or make one and you have last possession to win game (would have Sheed drive to rim).

But if they make the free throws (even one) and you come down and miss your shot, everyone will scream about why you would give them easy points rather than trust your defense. I would have had a more agile player stick with McDermott and try to deny him the ball. When they screened, I would double him and let the screener get the ball. Make sure anyone else takes the shot. While I understand why coach put CO on him, it's not how I would have played it. Also, throughout the game, I would have harassed him so much and never let him feel comfortable taking a shot. Try to deny him the pass as much as possible. I would have used 15 fouls on him.

 

[beast of the east]

Beast, you can always add extra time to the recording. I always add an extra hour in case the game goes to quadruple overtime.

Thanks for the advice. I am aware you can extend the time, but setting the programming is one button, and I'm too lazy to edit the end time. Thanks again

 

[logen]

I'm sorry, but I do have to laugh at all of the posters who actually believe this team is going to make a run in the Big East Tournament. Can we just face the fact that we are rooting for a below average team? They're 2-6 in conference play and their most impressive wins this season are against 12-8 Seton Hall and 11-9 Butler.

Listen, we can talk about blown charge calls, moving screens, and not closing out on the unanimous POY. But let's not forget the awful start to the second half that made it virtually impossible to win that game. Good basketball teams rarely are on the losing end of a 15-1 run. And there seems to be a story after every single game.

I'm not saying don't root for our team. Like most of you, I'll go to my fair share in February because I love this program. But it's time to accept the fact that our team just isn't very good and we probably shouldn't expect a reversal of fortunes anytime soon.

The really hard part is we are just so very close to being not just a mediocre team, but a very good team. Most very good teams do not have so many guys who can hurt you in one way or another as St. John's. Many mediocre teams would be just fine with Greene and Branch as their starting backcourt. Or a two headed center in Obekpa/GG. Or three forwards the caliber of Sanchez/Pointer/Sampson. Most don't have a Harrison/Jordan backcourt pairing. Or a marquis coach who can recruit, as tarnished as his rep is on here. Over the past 6 weeks by various posters, each and every one of these guys has been singled out as terrible and a reason for our failures. We are just a little short - whether it be the team having to learn how to win, or being that one player short - either short a star or waiting for him to emerge. Soon, maybe soon.

Beast of the East, I just don't agree with you. I can't say that a team is on the cusp of being very good when they don't shoot, pass, rebound, or run any type of real offense very well. I get the fact that they've been in a lot of close games, but at the end of the day those go in the loss column. And at the end of the day when your best wins are against 12-8 Seton Hall and 11-9 Butler, that kind of sums up the season.

I agree that this team has a few talented players (namely Harrison, Sampson, and Jordan), but that doesn't mean much when we see the game mistakes game in and game out.

How the heck can you play the following Top 20 teams to a near draw for most of the games and not be on the cusp of good. (Villanova, Syracuse, Creighton, Wisconsin). Some of these teams have very different styles, yet we played all of them pretty close. A bad team would have lost comfortably to all 4. Basketball is a game of mistakes. I think Creighton had a ton more turnovers than us. It's mostly a matter of coming up big when it counts, and we can't seem to do that. Do any of us believe that if we had 20 seconds to get off the last shot that we would have even had a 50-50 chance of making it?

"How the heck can you play the following Top 20 teams to a near draw for most of the games and not be on the cusp of good." Mostly because we are a bad team with good talent.

 

[beast of the east]

Beast, you can always add extra time to the recording. I always add an extra hour in case the game goes to quadruple overtime.

And if that is too complicated for you just record the show that follow. Actually agree with Ray Morgan-11 seconds left, still in the one and one, foul their worse ft shooter and they probably miss or make one and you have last possession to win game (would have Sheed drive to rim).

But if they make the free throws (even one) and you come down and miss your shot, everyone will scream about why you would give them easy points rather than trust your defense. I would have had a more agile player stick with McDermott and try to deny him the ball. When they screened, I would double him and let the screener get the ball. Make sure anyone else takes the shot. While I understand why coach put CO on him, it's not how I would have played it. Also, throughout the game, I would have harassed him so much and never let him feel comfortable taking a shot. Try to deny him the pass as much as possible. I would have used 15 fouls on him.

Creighton's five starters shoot between 72 and 89% from the FT line. Giving a foul in that situation has a high percentage of giving them a 2 point lead. Since only Sampson approaches 50% from the field, it's a bad risk for us to do that.

I agree with your strategy on McDermott. They needed a more agile big man to guard him - only Pointer (shorter) or Sampson (not a great defender) could have matched up. Sampson did come up big on the previous play. I do agree that you try to double him early and make someone else beat you, but on that team, almost anyone left wide open can make a 16 ft shot. In that situation, I think you do your best for McDermott not to get the ball in the first place, and then either force him into a bad shot, or make him give it up. With 4 seconds left, he probably isn't giving it up since you lose a sense of time, and as their best player, was taking it on his shoulders.

Interesting stat: McDermott is averaging 25 pts per game. The next 4 leading scorers combined are averaging 35.6 points per game. He's their leading rebounder at 7.1, and shoots 44% from three, and 50% overall. A program like that gets a player of his caliber once in 20 or 30 years.

 

[GardenCity62]

There must be 50 messages re the Creighton game , all of them negative.Let me add one positive note. SJU went out to Omaha to play a top 20 team who have the player of the year. They were 12 point underdogs.
The coaching staff devised a defense to play McDermott one on one without double teaming allowing him more opportunities to score but preventing him from passing to open men for easier baskets. Did it work perfectly? No. He torched us but the rest of the team did very little. McDermott is considered a very good passer which makes him very difficult to defend.
The outcome was a tough loss but is there any critic who can honestly say that prior to the game that they wouldn't have accepted holding Creighton to 63?

 

[logen]

There must be 50 messages re the Creighton game , all of them negative.Let me add one positive note. SJU went out to Omaha to play a top 20 team who have the player of the year. They were 12 point underdogs.
The coaching staff devised a defense to play McDermott one on one without double teaming allowing him more opportunities to score but preventing him from passing to open men for easier baskets. Did it work perfectly? No. He torched us but the rest of the team did very little. McDermott is considered a very good passer which makes him very difficult to defend.
The outcome was a tough loss but is there any critic who can honestly say that prior to the game that they wouldn't have accepted holding Creighton to 63?

You make all good and valid points. My frustration and negativity comes from seeing this team over and over find a way to lose. From seeing dumb fouls 90 feet from the basket. From seeing Pointer come in with focus seemingly concentrated on crap rather than on playing winning basketball. From seeing dumb, stand around, one on one basketball. From seeing a team that is built for pressure seemingly only going into that mode out of desperation. I said very early in the year (after the Wiconsin which is when I started bitching) that I expected to see a much better, more mature, committed to winning basketball team. Regardless of how close we have come in some games, I only see that team very occasionally. Some on the board take solace and optimism from the close losses, I look on them as opportunities lost and additions to a legacy of underachievement for this group of coaches and players.

 

[bobo]

There must be 50 messages re the Creighton game , all of them negative.Let me add one positive note. SJU went out to Omaha to play a top 20 team who have the player of the year. They were 12 point underdogs.
The coaching staff devised a defense to play McDermott one on one without double teaming allowing him more opportunities to score but preventing him from passing to open men for easier baskets. Did it work perfectly? No. He torched us but the rest of the team did very little. McDermott is considered a very good passer which makes him very difficult to defend.
The outcome was a tough loss but is there any critic who can honestly say that prior to the game that they wouldn't have accepted holding Creighton to 63?

Yes, he's a very good passer, but EVERYONE knew he was taking the last shot. My problem is who is guarding him, or should have been guarding him. Watch the play develop.

 

[Class of 72]

There must be 50 messages re the Creighton game , all of them negative.Let me add one positive note. SJU went out to Omaha to play a top 20 team who have the player of the year. They were 12 point underdogs.
The coaching staff devised a defense to play McDermott one on one without double teaming allowing him more opportunities to score but preventing him from passing to open men for easier baskets. Did it work perfectly? No. He torched us but the rest of the team did very little. McDermott is considered a very good passer which makes him very difficult to defend.
The outcome was a tough loss but is there any critic who can honestly say that prior to the game that they wouldn't have accepted holding Creighton to 63?

Yes, he's a very good passer, but EVERYONE knew he was taking the last shot. My problem is who is guarding him, or should have been guarding him. Watch the play develop.

Look at Harrison...He is guarding no one. Look at Jakarr...he is on the line blocking the passer. If the wizard (if I only had a brain) had doubled McDermott with Jarkarr leaving the passer looking to inbound, the ending should have been overtime. No one was guarding the best player and shooter in college ball and I say it again....epic fail!!!!

BTW, both Sampson and Harrison were under the basket alone when that shot went off!!! With those two guys it was 3 against 5 on defense.

 

[beast of the east]

There must be 50 messages re the Creighton game , all of them negative.Let me add one positive note. SJU went out to Omaha to play a top 20 team who have the player of the year. They were 12 point underdogs.
The coaching staff devised a defense to play McDermott one on one without double teaming allowing him more opportunities to score but preventing him from passing to open men for easier baskets. Did it work perfectly? No. He torched us but the rest of the team did very little. McDermott is considered a very good passer which makes him very difficult to defend.
The outcome was a tough loss but is there any critic who can honestly say that prior to the game that they wouldn't have accepted holding Creighton to 63?

Yes, he's a very good passer, but EVERYONE knew he was taking the last shot. My problem is who is guarding him, or should have been guarding him. Watch the play develop.

Look at Harrison...He is guarding no one. Look at Jakarr...he is on the line blocking the passer. If the wizard (if I only had a brain) had doubled McDermott with Jarkarr leaving the passer looking to inbound, the ending should have been overtime. No one was guarding the best player and shooter in college ball and I say it again....epic fail!!!!

BTW, both Sampson and Harrison were under the basket alone when that shot went off!!! With those two guys it was 3 against 5 on defense.

HUH? Harrison was guarding the guy who set the pick. Obekpa curled in near the foul line leaving McDermott wide WIDE W-I-D-E open. IT was a set play for the guard to set the pick on Obekpa, and Obekpa was so far away (about 10-12 feet) that he had no chance of challenging the shot. Harrison should have called out the pick AND fought through it, but instead he curled towards the basket as Obekpa came out to challenge, in case it was a pick and roll. All in all, I'd agree - bad defense on that sequence, ESPECIALLY given who got the shot off.

 

[Class of 72]

There must be 50 messages re the Creighton game , all of them negative.Let me add one positive note. SJU went out to Omaha to play a top 20 team who have the player of the year. They were 12 point underdogs.
The coaching staff devised a defense to play McDermott one on one without double teaming allowing him more opportunities to score but preventing him from passing to open men for easier baskets. Did it work perfectly? No. He torched us but the rest of the team did very little. McDermott is considered a very good passer which makes him very difficult to defend.
The outcome was a tough loss but is there any critic who can honestly say that prior to the game that they wouldn't have accepted holding Creighton to 63?

Yes, he's a very good passer, but EVERYONE knew he was taking the last shot. My problem is who is guarding him, or should have been guarding him. Watch the play develop.

Look at Harrison...He is guarding no one. Look at Jakarr...he is on the line blocking the passer. If the wizard (if I only had a brain) had doubled McDermott with Jarkarr leaving the passer looking to inbound, the ending should have been overtime. No one was guarding the best player and shooter in college ball and I say it again....epic fail!!!!

BTW, both Sampson and Harrison were under the basket alone when that shot went off!!! With those two guys it was 3 against 5 on defense.

HUH? Harrison was guarding the guy who set the pick. Obekpa curled in near the foul line leaving McDermott wide WIDE W-I-D-E open. IT was a set play for the guard to set the pick on Obekpa, and Obekpa was so far away (about 10-12 feet) that he had no chance of challenging the shot. Harrison should have called out the pick AND fought through it, but instead he curled towards the basket as Obekpa came out to challenge, in case it was a pick and roll. All in all, I'd agree - bad defense on that sequence, ESPECIALLY given who got the shot off.

Beast, Harrison strolled down court, glanced at his man and inexplicably turned toward the basket leaving his man to set the pick but my emphasis was denyiing the ball and Lavin should have doubled up on one of the guards or McDermott at the very least. Hope these guys are learning from the countless mistakes near end of game situations.
I just watched the game again and cannot figure out why Rico Hines did so much talking during time outs. Lavin uses his least experienced assistant as a strategizer during time outs and we have Absolutley SUCKED after time outs! Whitehead was a head coach for a quarter century and his role appears marginalized. WTF?

 

[fan5577]

Here is a link to an interesting article by an Omaha beat writer:
http://www.omaha.com/article/20140129/BLUEJAYS/140139937