Top Ten Reasons SJU Struggles With Mid-Majors
- Thread starter Ray Morgan
- Start date
Not disputing what you might have heard but like you say they are teenagers and they can change their minds quite easily. Bama just got a commitment from a 5 star WR from Pittsburgh who had it down to home town fav Pitt and bama. Changed his mind 3 times in last few days even going so far as telling his mom he was staying home and going to pitt the night before his scheduled announcement much to her delight. She wore Pitt colors to press conference and when kid was ready to announce he couldn't even speak-was choked up and tearful-finally saying he was going to UA much to his mother's shock. He apologized to local fans but even Bama fans aren't sure he won't flip before signing day as he seemed so torn. So it just seems recruiting news is like newspapers-having an expiration date of one day. Also coaching staffs at times seem overly optimistic of their chances with recruits as the Pitt staff reportedly thought he was a lock.
Football recruiting is generally much more fickle than basketball recruiting, so the story you're telling doesn't suprise me at all. It's unfortunate, but not surprising.
I'm not sure you're assuming I heard this info from a staff member, per your latter quote.... The info didn't come from a coach of any staff. This person doesn't have a dog in the fight, and could care less where Jordan goes to school.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
The year Thornton and Barkley left St. John's. Which makes for a good point. With all of the athleticism these guys have, maybe there isn't a lot of character, toughness, and maturity on this team. When the going gets tough, our guys throw towels and sulk. Well at least Harrison does. I sure am seeing very little optimism on this board. Which tells you the rose colored glasses of homerism have a large crack in them.
I think the biggest thing is this: if you had major expectations for this team, kiss them goodbye. To be 8-4 at this point is inexcusable. Murray State and Baylor are understandable, but being blown off the map by SF who is not good vs. any other teams and now blowing huge leads to UNC Asheville, it's definitely time to say this team just isn't that good. I would be absolutely shocked if we finish near .500 more less at it. To make the NCAA tourney at this point is a miracle, and to make the NIT even seems laughable.
This team just cannot beat the teams it needs to and should. We seem to be one of the few major conference teams in the Big East that REALLY struggles every game against mid majors. Nova will blow mid majors out for the most part, as will Marquette, Cincy, Cuse, UConn, Pitt, ND, and Seton Hall and Providence may not blow their mid majors out, but they go out and win the games they should. At this point I don't care if we play a high school team...it's 50/50 now for our chance of winning against anyone. I understand that in the full scope of things, SF and Asheville are pretty good mid majors, but compared to a Big East team, they should prove no contest at least beyond the 1st period. By the way, some of you have it completely backwards regarding attendance. You WIN first, THEN you get the crowds, not vice versa. We haven't won crap in 12 years. Feels more like 80 right now.
We will still get our typical 2 or 3 upsets, some may even come against ranked teams, but overall this team is very bad for a major level team and the ridiculous amount of talent or supposed talent we recruited. When is this team going to be a real factor again nationally? My hair might be gray by then if it ever happens at all.
STJClass_2013
Member
I hope this team does extremely well. Everyone on this board just puts them down when they have every chance in the world to make a name for themselves. This is a young team that will put your collective feet in your mouths. You don't write a team off this early in the year and if you have a problem with that then you are not a true fan of the game or this team.
This fan base has a losing attitude and this team will do better then expected. Before years end St Johns will have a new season blocks leader, and he could be a big difference maker. I think he can shut down the lane and their full court pressure will help them.
Let's all be honest nobody knows what will happen and we should just wait and see.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
You tell them, Scott. Don't let these pessimists ruin it for the rest of us. A quote from Pride of the Yankees:
"You watch-Gehrig will come back-he always does". Oops, Bad analogy.
"This is a young team". How many times am I going to hear that? That phrase is uttered so much that you can create a drinking game for it. Every time someone says it take a drink. At some point the excuses need to be put to bed and reality becomes reality. This team just is not that good. They will upset a few teams, miss the NCAA's and NIT, and head into the offseason. What an inopportune time to be playing like garbage too with Lawrence and Jordan watching. We simply cannot effectively run our offense and consistently score. We score in spurts, and we cannot put teams away. That's a recipe for disaster. We get killed on the boards and it seems like it doesn't even matter if the opponents are 5'7 at this point. We have zero inside presence.
"This fanbase has a losing attitude". Same can be said for the Pittsburgh Pirates...wonder why. You reap what you sow. If you are a great team and do great things, great crowds will come and support you. Conversely, if you play like trash and lose to bottom of the barrel teams as a power conference team with countless top 100 recruits, your fanbase will ignore you because you aren't worth their time. Stop living in this fantasy where we pack out every game and suddenly we learn how to rebound, shoot 3's, defend 3's, run plays, and get an inside game going. That's not due to fans, that's skill and pure talent. If we were a good team, we would be beating SF's and Asheville's by 15+. This was supposed to be a very weak OOC for us this year. Some on here even complained it might hurt us it's so weak. Well, we managed to lose 4 games before conference play, 2 coming vs. cupcakes who aren't even dominant in their own divisions, and 2 where we totally blew games we should have won. This loss was like a big punch to the gut and if they don't really get going in their next few games, it will be the KO punch to the season. If we can't beat the DePaul's, SH's, Prov's, Rutgers', etc. of our conference, we may do worse than last year.
STJClass_2013
Member
Young team means they will only get better guys. Plenty of time for improvement. And its still early. Don't forget that.. just wait and watch before you count this team out. They still have to play the games. I will start to doubt this team when they are under .500. You guys make it sound like we have a 1-11 record. It doesn't matter what happens in any other games but the one they are going into next. Every game is a different animal. Just watch and let's see what happens.
No offense but it doesn't seem like you know the difference in expectations regarding mid majors like SF and major teams like us. For major conference teams especially the Big East (currently the best conference), the first part of your schedule is supposed to be mostly cupcakes and in essence scrimmages. They are not supposed to be that competitive thus the lopsided scores for many other power conference teams playing mid majors. For mid majors, there are no cupcakes...so going 5-5 or 6-5 might actually be a decent start to the season, while 5-5 or 6-5 or in our case 8-4 is not good at all. Look where we stand right now in the Big East. The only game we really should have lost was against Baylor. If we were 11-1 then we start to look like a real threat in the Big East and we gain national respect. But at 8-4 getting banged up by cupcakes looks TERRIBLE to the fanbase and makes other teams laugh at us. This isn't 8-4 in football where the season is mostly over. This is 8-4 BEFORE the big boys. You are supposed to feast on the cupcakes and then head into conference play. We are coming into conference play nearly losing to Holy Cross, Fordham, NJIT, etc. and losing to SF (major blowout) and UNC Asheville, NOT Chapel Hill. It may not be fun to say, but I just want to cut through all the BS and give it raw. This is what our team is...we can lose to SF and Asheville some days and win some others in upset fashion. To be great in this game you need consistency and we have nothing close to that.
STJClass_2013
Member
Just let the season play out. If you are right then I will say it. But just wait and see. You don't know what will happen. Just watch that is what being a fan is all about.
I think that both the good and bad part of it is that all of our losses are totally on us. There hasnt been a team we have faced that we didnt have the ability to best. We were throttling Murray state, Baylor and UNC Asheville in the first half of each of those games. We collapsed down the stretch at both ends and I'm not sure the reason to this point. I think we need Branch out there more, because our offense suffers without direction and we start to get tunnel vision.
Our team has the ability to get it done. Maybe our biggest issue right now is our lack of a scorer in the post. Teams just pack it in. We could really use Gift and/or Sanchez but it doesn't seem that either is going to happen this season. No excuses though, we have the horses but must learn to keep the foot on the gas in the second half of games. The collapses are certainly disturbing. UNC Asheville sucked and shouldn't have beaten us. Teams have just been tougher than us down the stretch. Gotta fix it. We aren't getting best because of lack of talent though.
Our team has the ability to get it done. Maybe our biggest issue right now is our lack of a scorer in the post. Teams just pack it in. We could really use Gift and/or Sanchez but it doesn't seem that either is going to happen this season. No excuses though, we have the horses but must learn to keep the foot on the gas in the second half of games. The collapses are certainly disturbing. UNC Asheville sucked and shouldn't have beaten us. Teams have just been tougher than us down the stretch. Gotta fix it. We aren't getting best because of lack of talent though.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
If it isn't lack of talent, then you have to examine what's left. The what's left is coaching, teamwork, toughness, inexperience, no PG, attitude, conditioning, BB IQ, lack of effort. Most of these ultimately fall on the staff. They recruited these players, and coached them. But this is a good staff that has won plenty of games before. So maybe it's time to go back to talent, and re-examine what is here. This team is filled with guys that can jump through the building, yet the rebounding sucks. A lot of quickness, yet the defense has lapses. Watch teams, mediocre by Big East standards, pick us apart. They move the ball, take your time, and eventually there is a wide open 3 or someone open in the paint. Watch them defend us. Pack it down low, and put ball pressure on Harrison. He will get frustrated and take bad shots. When he misses, where is the offensive rebounding?
I equate talent to athletic ability and the potential that comes with it. You can't teach height, hops or quickness. It's great to have. But it often covers up for a something this team is short on: skill. Skills like boxing out, drawing double teams and finding the open man, shooting the basketball, defensive positioning. The guys that bring both dominant athleticism and skill sets get gobbled up by the big boys. The mid majors get the rest, especially guys that can shoot threes, or handle the point, but are not thoroughbreds from an athletic standpoint. We got the guys with the great legs that are behind the curve skill wise. They have the potential to get much better, but it will be gradual, not sudden like some fans are hoping for.