The Point Guard Debate

frankingeneral said:
I agree with most of your post, but this is factually inaccurate in a key way imho. Pitino whiffed on 3/4 high-end PGs BEFORE we signed Jackson and Rick anointed him the PG. The fourth was of course Boogie, who was legitimately going through the NBA process and sometimes you just can't wait around.

DeMary committed to UConn 4/3
Wright committed to BYU 4/14
Lee committed to Florida 4/16
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we were a player for Wright? i remember the DeMary and Lee visits.... did Wright visit?

Thought there was that controversy of him re-upping with Baylor- then quickly entering and committing to BYU
 
bucketshardy said:
we were a player for Wright? i remember the DeMary and Lee visits.... did Wright visit?

Thought there was that controversy of him re-upping with Baylor- then quickly entering and committing to BYU
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We were named as a finalist but BYU basically went way above and beyond for him, iirc
 
paultzman said:
Good luck w that. Rick has been clear that Sellers would run things if needed at PG not Ian. I think Ian should not be burdened w running point and should concentrate on his off the ball defensive and offensive responsibilities.
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I didn't know Pitino prioritized Sellers running point over Jackson. In Pitino we trust, I'm all for it if his handle is good enough. I'd love to have a taller PG especially in Big East play
 
Section9 said:
Supposedly. ;) I'm sure that some of these guys can be reliable 3 pt. shooters, but they haven't shown it yet, and we have a recent history of guys with reps as shooters coming here and not exactly lighting it up.

It's way early and as a looong time Johnnie fan I always have hope.
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Those three are shooting 40.47 percent from three for the season collectively.
 
I think Darling is going to get 30 minutes a game at PG, the ghost 5 and all others split the duties. This is all pending how he does in Vegas. Sounds crazy but....
 
Eric said:
Great article. First we are the REDMEN. Second we played an NCAA tourney game at the coliseum!! Forgot about that.
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Damn this triggered my memory. My dad took my brother and I to the next game, a loss to Alabama, also at the coliseum. I barely remember it, except that we had terrible folding seats behind the basket and all I could see were our “twin towers”, lots of students had “we are St. John’s” signs, and I got a big foam SJU finger. Biggest memory of course was my dad complaining all the way home about how the refs gave Alabama every call and screwed us because the big state schools ran the NCAA. Hahaha. The more things change the more they stay the same.
 
hersheypa said:
Damn this triggered my memory. My dad took my brother and I to the next game, a loss to Alabama, also at the coliseum. I barely remember it, except that we had terrible folding seats behind the basket and all I could see were our “twin towers”, lots of students had “we are St. John’s” signs, and I got a big foam SJU finger. Biggest memory of course was my dad complaining all the way home about how the refs gave Alabama every call and screwed us because the big state schools ran the NCAA. Hahaha. The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Dejavu all over again.
NYU Violet were pre-season ranked #1 in 63-64. Day of first game of season only true point guard (Neil O'Neill) declared academically ineligible. Wound up losing ten games and squeaking in to NIT. Other guards were all combo and shooting guards or defensive specialists.
 
hersheypa said:
Damn this triggered my memory. My dad took my brother and I to the next game, a loss to Alabama, also at the coliseum. I barely remember it, except that we had terrible folding seats behind the basket and all I could see were our “twin towers”, lots of students had “we are St. John’s” signs, and I got a big foam SJU finger. Biggest memory of course was my dad complaining all the way home about how the refs gave Alabama every call and screwed us because the big state schools ran the NCAA. Hahaha. The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Was that the game where the Post or Daily News headline was "The gang that couldn't shoot straight" due to our poor shooting?
 
lawmanfan said:
You're talking about actual usage as opposed to proper role. Jacoby Brissett is starting for Arizona because their starting QB is hurt. So now he's a "starting QB." But we all know that what he really is is is a backup QB. (And yes I know their starting QB is not awesome either, but let's roll with that example anyway.)

The problem with this team is Pitino brought in Jackson with the idea that he would be the PG. That left him with Sanon, Sellers, and Liotopoulos at the wings. Then he figured he would go swing for the fences and he struck out on four other high-end PGs. So he said OK, I will bring in Darling as the backup PG and we'll be fine because Jackson will be able to play the point.

He then discovered that Jackson can't play the point, which left him with the backup PG as his ONLY PG. It also created a logjam at the SG/wing position which is going to be a problem for him (at the moment solved by shafting Liotopoulos, who really deserves better),.

So then he jammed Sellers into the role to see if he could do it. And he told you this week that he wanted to try Liotopoulos at it but Lefty couldn't handle the press. And he keeps finding minutes for Pohto to see if maybe he can do it.

But at the moment where he's at is that he has a backup PG who he has no choice to play as his primary PG, at least against teams that press (which is going to be everyone who has the slightest ability to do that, I would think).

It is really a miscalculation of epic proportions for a guy who thought he was putting together a Final 4 team. And when you listen to him talk about players not unusually he says things like "people told us" and "we thought" which makes you wonder if he has delegated a bit too much on the scouting front (or if the folks he has scouting maybe whiffed bigtime on the PG spot).

I like Darling. He is tough, he is a good ball handler, he's fast. After the first scrimmage he improved dramatically as a "get the ball up the floor and give it to someone else" guy. His shooting has been unimpressive, but he has scrapped for rebounds which is great. He's a liability on defense and will be when he's playing against guys who are not only better than he is but 5 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. I would love to have him play 12-14 minutes as a change-of-pace PG to give a starting PG a breather, and to feast on somebody's second unit. It isn't his fault that we don't have a PG to play the other 26-28 minutes.

I think we'll be OK with him in league play with the exception of a few games because the league is meh. But if you look at Darling and you see "PG who plays 30 minutes a game on a Final 4 team," then we just see very different things. Which is fine- the season will tell the tale. Vegas will be a pretty good marker for how much we can get away with, and I am hoping it is more than I think we can. I also think that some other players improving (Sanon is getting there, and hopefully Jackson will also) will help him a lot - it's a team game and if you get lights-out play at 4 other spots (which has yet to happen IMO) then it helps darling enormously
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That’s a whole lot of words to say that yes- Dylan darling is more than a role player on this team and will be all season

We can talk about the PG depth brought in and the problem there, after the Michigan game I noted it’s disappointing that darling has to play this much because of our personnel

But that doesn’t mean he isn’t more than a role player and that he isn’t capable of it. I think everything we seen from him shows he’s a capable lead guard regardless of competition. But like you said the full season will determine that fully

Also disagree he will be a liability on defense but we will see. He seems to have the right toolkit to make up for physical limitations on that end.
 
lawmanfan said:
You're talking about actual usage as opposed to proper role. Jacoby Brissett is starting for Arizona because their starting QB is hurt. So now he's a "starting QB." But we all know that what he really is is is a backup QB. (And yes I know their starting QB is not awesome either, but let's roll with that example anyway.)

The problem with this team is Pitino brought in Jackson with the idea that he would be the PG. That left him with Sanon, Sellers, and Liotopoulos at the wings. Then he figured he would go swing for the fences and he struck out on four other high-end PGs. So he said OK, I will bring in Darling as the backup PG and we'll be fine because Jackson will be able to play the point.

He then discovered that Jackson can't play the point, which left him with the backup PG as his ONLY PG. It also created a logjam at the SG/wing position which is going to be a problem for him (at the moment solved by shafting Liotopoulos, who really deserves better),.

So then he jammed Sellers into the role to see if he could do it. And he told you this week that he wanted to try Liotopoulos at it but Lefty couldn't handle the press. And he keeps finding minutes for Pohto to see if maybe he can do it.

But at the moment where he's at is that he has a backup PG who he has no choice to play as his primary PG, at least against teams that press (which is going to be everyone who has the slightest ability to do that, I would think).

It is really a miscalculation of epic proportions for a guy who thought he was putting together a Final 4 team. And when you listen to him talk about players not unusually he says things like "people told us" and "we thought" which makes you wonder if he has delegated a bit too much on the scouting front (or if the folks he has scouting maybe whiffed bigtime on the PG spot).

I like Darling. He is tough, he is a good ball handler, he's fast. After the first scrimmage he improved dramatically as a "get the ball up the floor and give it to someone else" guy. His shooting has been unimpressive, but he has scrapped for rebounds which is great. He's a liability on defense and will be when he's playing against guys who are not only better than he is but 5 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. I would love to have him play 12-14 minutes as a change-of-pace PG to give a starting PG a breather, and to feast on somebody's second unit. It isn't his fault that we don't have a PG to play the other 26-28 minutes.

I think we'll be OK with him in league play with the exception of a few games because the league is meh. But if you look at Darling and you see "PG who plays 30 minutes a game on a Final 4 team," then we just see very different things. Which is fine- the season will tell the tale. Vegas will be a pretty good marker for how much we can get away with, and I am hoping it is more than I think we can. I also think that some other players improving (Sanon is getting there, and hopefully Jackson will also) will help him a lot - it's a team game and if you get lights-out play at 4 other spots (which has yet to happen IMO) then it helps Darling enormously.
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I'm a fan of Darling, but this is all valid.
 
I think there will be speed bumps and missteps with darling competing against top 25 teams over the next couple of weeks. Especially if team loses a couple of them, which frankly is likely. Board and fanship in general will pay a visit to panic city. I think then big east play starts and darling finds his true footing, slowly but surely. Has a big game or two with clutch play late in tight ones vs. the Marquettes and novas. I think by late Feb into march there will only be a handful of PGs nationally we would trade him for, if at all.
 
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