I am afraid that this movement will not stop with the N F L.. I love this Country and love the redmen since at least. 1950 . It would absolutely destroy me if someone on my team took a knee on the playing of the anthem . I would lose respect for my Alma Mater and not support them any longer. I pray that StJ respects our flag ,honor guard and the men and women who served and died for this Country
The Knee
- Thread starter frank
- Start date
There are other ways to do this. Could you imagine doing this in Iran? They would blow your head off before you could stand up. I think ppl forget we live in the greatest country in the world. Never served but a man like Villanueva from the Steelers feels the need to come out on his own to stand, we should all show the same respect.
As I watch the Ken Burns series "Vietnam", Ive learned many things. The most poignant of which is that the Tet Offensive started on Jan 31, 1968, the same day that my cousin Joseph was killed while serving as part of an Army medic battalion. He was 19. When I watch these players kneel, I wonder how many of them take in to account the sacrifices that have been made, and continue to be made, by the member of our armed forces? My Dad and every single one of my Uncles served in the military. Even my grandfather, shortly after coming here from Sicily, enlisted in the Army during WW1. So when hear people say "well they don't mean this as any disrespect towards the military", I call "bullshit" on that one. Lastly, protest your heart out about whatever issue you feel like protesting, just don't do it when people are paying big bucks to watch you play professional sports. Just another reason to watch amateur sports.
It would be very brave of NFL owners and players and send a real message if they first renounced the league's antitrust exemption and thereafter refused to take public funds to build stadiums containing luxury boxes for the one percent. Because accepting money, boons and benefits from someone you claim is Hitler is Swiss banker territory.
Totally agree with what Monte said. My Father fought in WW 2. As did most of my uncles, and I had a lot of uncles. I spent 4 years in the Air Force during the Vietnam era. These athletes are spoiled brats who don't understand or believe in the values this country was founded upon. Nor do they appreciate the sacrifices not only made by our military personnel but also the sacrifices made by our law enforcement and first responders..
I am done with NFL until they put a stop to this nonsense.
I am done with NFL until they put a stop to this nonsense.
Its*Over*Johnny
Member
I think it's time to think outside the box. Why doesn't anyone even wonder why the national anthem is even performed at sporting events? If it's so important why isn't it performed before a play or a movie or before it's time to get busy with my wife? Seems kind of arbitrary to associate such an esteemed display with a bunch of drunk fans and brutes who probably can't even name the 3 branches of government.
If they stopped it I don't think anyone would even care or remember after a few weeks. The broadcasts often show a commercial during the anthem and nobody ever calls that disrespectful. In fact, there was probably a time when there was no anthem before sporting events...why can't THAT be when America was "great".
And why do we care what a group of people suffering from CTE think. This is a group that includes OJ and Aaron Hernandez.
If they stopped it I don't think anyone would even care or remember after a few weeks. The broadcasts often show a commercial during the anthem and nobody ever calls that disrespectful. In fact, there was probably a time when there was no anthem before sporting events...why can't THAT be when America was "great".
And why do we care what a group of people suffering from CTE think. This is a group that includes OJ and Aaron Hernandez.
I respect the flag and have always stood and respected the Natuonal Anthem. While I understand the protest and respect their opinion I don't agree with it.
Nor do I agree with those fans (some of whom are probably upset with the players) who continue to walk to their seats during the playing of the National Anthem, or talking during it, or yelling "go (insert whatever team name they are routing for), or shouting "O" towards the end (not singing the song but for the Ohio State or the Baltimore Orioles) or applauding before it complete. Do any of those who do that get called out?
I am the proud son of a surviving WW II vet who when he came back afterwards was subject to the same Jim Crow laws in the South that he was subjected to when he left. To him that in 2016 when Kapernick started his protest, that the stated reasons for it still exist is a travesty.
Nor do I agree with those fans (some of whom are probably upset with the players) who continue to walk to their seats during the playing of the National Anthem, or talking during it, or yelling "go (insert whatever team name they are routing for), or shouting "O" towards the end (not singing the song but for the Ohio State or the Baltimore Orioles) or applauding before it complete. Do any of those who do that get called out?
I am the proud son of a surviving WW II vet who when he came back afterwards was subject to the same Jim Crow laws in the South that he was subjected to when he left. To him that in 2016 when Kapernick started his protest, that the stated reasons for it still exist is a travesty.
Well aside from the Olympics and international sports which in part were developed to foster a common ground where competition could be non-military, a major factor is that sports at every level in the United States get public funding. From the local parks to the mega billion stadium and infrastructure projects all get public funding and the airwaves and internet are also beholding to public funding and ownership as well as taxation. Fun nailed the real issue.
If you are a celebrity you exist based upon the largess of the public so you owe your specialized existence to everyone, not just whoever is most politically correct at the moment. When you are in a city with multi billion dollar stadiums, arenas etc and even highways getting named after (living) sports figures, and public funds going directly and indirectly to that, anyone that benefits from it, is beholding to the public and should behave accordingly or give up their paychecks and other benefits.
I want to add, it wasn't long ago when college basketball teams would go to the lockerroom around the 10 minute mark to go before a televised game at which time the National Anthem would be song. There were many a time that St. John's was the only team on the court for it.
Its*Over*Johnny
Member
Using this logic, everyone should be getting out if their cars and saying the pledge of allegiance before going over the George Washington Bridge. Get real. This is a welcome distraction for our 3 card monty dealer-in-chief while he starts another war we can all celebrate before football games.
Although I understand what you are saying, Monte, about the military, and I agree, I disagree with the last part of your post.
Whether you agree or disagree with the protests or the intent behind the protests.. I've seen a lot of people say that the players should keep it off the field.
And, honestly, I think that's bullshit.
Imagine you are protesting something, trying to fight for a message you believe in. If you had an opportunity to get that message out to millions of people... would you do it? Or would you peacefully protest in the parking lot at 4AM when no one can see you?
Everyone can argue all day about the flag being disrespected, whether or not the players grievances are valid, and all that.
I just personally think it's stupid to try and tell the players when and where to fight for their cause.
I don't like the anthem being disrespected, I don't agree with the act, but I'll stand by these peaceful protests, as opposed to situations in the past like Ferguson or Charlottesville, where people resort to violence, and lives are lost, while protesting.
The players use their First Amendment right to protest.
The President uses his First Amendment right to criticize protest.
Supporters and detractors use their First Amendment right to support or criticize players, the president, each other.
People are talking.
No one has (yet) killed each other over this.
Democracy works.
The Republic still stands.
Next.
The President uses his First Amendment right to criticize protest.
Supporters and detractors use their First Amendment right to support or criticize players, the president, each other.
People are talking.
No one has (yet) killed each other over this.
Democracy works.
The Republic still stands.
Next.
The key difference of course being that all those people on the bridge are paying for the pampered existence of celebrities and power brokers that benefit from their mandatory taxes while most are working like dogs and barely getting by month to month.
The parks and stadiums are supposed to serve the public good and be essentially a benefit. The foundation of it is that in the land of the free and the brave you can put in a hard work week and have enough time and energy for recreation. Celebrate family and the great country that allows people such freedoms - and the sacrifices people make for it from taxes to their lives and the lives of loved ones.
Jack I am all for peaceful protests, although frankly I'm not exactly sure anymore what these players are protesting. But it's not any either/or situation. There's some middle ground between the kneeling at an pro sporting event, and Ferguson/Charlotesville. There is a time and place for everything. I went to a concert recently and the performer got on stage and said "if you're here to hear about politics then you're in the wrong place. We're here to play music!" And the crowd went crazy with appreciation. I don't care whether I agree or disagree with the purpose of a protest, I don't agree with the idea of it being done when people are paying huge bucks to see you perform. And I would feel the exact same way if players had taken a knee over something Obama had said or done. Now imagine the outrage if that had happened????
stjohnschris
Active member
Seems to be a wide array of arguments about why players shouldn't take a knee, but only one argument of why a player can take a silent knee during the national anthem. That player is exercising his freedom to protest in a non-confrontational, non-violent way. The first amendment rights don't get taken away from an American citizen because they make too much money, or because they are a celebrity, or because tax dollars contribute to their success. It's the players' right to exercise their first amendment right, it's your right to have an opinion, and as MainMan wrote above, it's all democracy in motion. The president's right to free speech is protected in the same way the players' rights are protected. If a sports team owner actually fired a player because he took a knee during the anthem, and the player sued, who wins that one? Players are bound by contracts with rules and terms set by the team, as well as the overall rules of the league. So when the president suggests for team owners to fire players, he's suggesting something that has no legal standing, and although many consider remarks like that to be misguided and stoking a fire, it's his right to make that comment on his own celebrity platform paid for by US tax dollars. Is it a good use of his first amendment rights? Luckily we are all protected to have our own opinion on that.
The cause is real and admirable. The protest is offensive and divisive. I finally agree with Trump on something. If I own a private business and one of my employees is doing something that alienates my customers, I absolutely should have the right to discontinue employment. They retain freedom of speech and I don't have to compensate them while they are representing me and my organization. That's fair.
Regarding the actual protest, it is completely ineffective. It does not make me want to discuss the very real issues of racial inequality in our country. It only draws me to a completely separate issue.......which is the issue of showing proper respect for those who have served, paid the ultimate price, and lost loved ones while I enjoy living in the safest country on earth.
Regarding the actual protest, it is completely ineffective. It does not make me want to discuss the very real issues of racial inequality in our country. It only draws me to a completely separate issue.......which is the issue of showing proper respect for those who have served, paid the ultimate price, and lost loved ones while I enjoy living in the safest country on earth.
Would you support a player peacefully giving the Nazi salute during the national anthem? Or flipping off the crowd?
Or peacefully displaying a I heart the Khmer Rouge tattoo during a dance? Or Bill Belichick peacefully wearing a MAGA hat or a KKK hood for that matter on the sidelines? Do you think tortured dwarf Bob Costas and civics expert Terry Bradshaw would rise to the defense of those actions protesting the status quo? How do you think the NFL would react?
