The Disappointment of 2018-19
- Thread starter docbutler
- Start date
- Status
southernjohnny2
Member
Actually the Cary, NC chapter of SJU alumni has 30 multi millionaires, and most donate to either Duke or UNC, you know why? Because they spend money on their basketball program and put out a good product! If SJU put out a good product I guarantee they would be joining me donating to SJU!!
southernjohnny2
Member
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=334597]Dukes alumni are very successful and donate much more than SJU alumni.[/quote. Sju alumni in NC alone are just as succesful as Duke alumni..look up Cary NC SJU alumni!! Most donate to Duke and UNC because of the product! Sju puts out the product, the money will flow!! Mike Cragg knows us!!
[quote="tom bradley" post=334600]Actually the Cary, NC chapter of SJU alumni has 30 multi millionaires, and most donate to either Duke or UNC, you know why? Because they spend money on their basketball program and put out a good product! If SJU put out a good product I guarantee they would be joining me donating to SJU!![/quote]
What type of BS is that? There’s 30 multimillionaires who don’t even donate to their own school and have the nerve to complain? W.T. H
What type of BS is that? There’s 30 multimillionaires who don’t even donate to their own school and have the nerve to complain? W.T. H
A recent post really struck me. My apologies for not recalling the poster, but it was essentially a comparison between the end if the Lavin era and today.
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=334603]A recent post really struck me. My apologies for not recalling the poster, but it was essentially a comparison between the end if the Lavin era and today.
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.[/quote] yeah pretty sure that poll was slightly over 50 % in favor
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.[/quote] yeah pretty sure that poll was slightly over 50 % in favor
Can't believe posters are bringing up Pitino's name as our next coach. Yes, the guy's a great coach, but he's also a total sleazeball on both the personal and professional levels. Would've loved him 10-15 years ago, but today the school wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole ... nor should it.
rawdognyc
Well-known member
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=334603]A recent post really struck me. My apologies for not recalling the poster, but it was essentially a comparison between the end if the Lavin era and today.
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.[/quote]
One of the main issues with Chris the coach is he could have success if he had his staff set up the correct way. That's my main issue with him. He could easily have kept Mitch in the advisory role, brought in another assistant that could recruit locally and was good with X's and O's to help balance out the lack of experience on the staff. It would've been a simple fix and would've helped with this season and beyond.
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.[/quote]
One of the main issues with Chris the coach is he could have success if he had his staff set up the correct way. That's my main issue with him. He could easily have kept Mitch in the advisory role, brought in another assistant that could recruit locally and was good with X's and O's to help balance out the lack of experience on the staff. It would've been a simple fix and would've helped with this season and beyond.
Last edited:
redfan259999888
Active member
[quote="redken" post=334605]Can't believe posters are bringing up Pitino's name as our next coach. Yes, the guy's a great coach, but he's also a total sleazeball on both the personal and professional levels. Would've loved him 10-15 years ago, but today the school wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole ... nor should it.[/quote]
I'm not one of them, but maybe some people are desperate for a winner. It has been 18yrs since the last ncaa tournament win.
Teams like nova get multiple wins in the tournament every year, but we can't get one in 18years.
I guess people are at the point where they don't care who it is, just get us back to the point where we can hold our heads high, and can say: " yeah, you're damn right I'm a REDMEN fan, and we are pretty damn good."
Who can blame them?
I'm not one of them, but maybe some people are desperate for a winner. It has been 18yrs since the last ncaa tournament win.
Teams like nova get multiple wins in the tournament every year, but we can't get one in 18years.
I guess people are at the point where they don't care who it is, just get us back to the point where we can hold our heads high, and can say: " yeah, you're damn right I'm a REDMEN fan, and we are pretty damn good."
Who can blame them?
inch:JohnnyFan wrote: A recent post really struck me. My apologies for not recalling the poster, but it was essentially a comparison between the end if the Lavin era and today.
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.
As we all know neither Mullin nor Lavin will ever be confused with good x's and o's coaches. For me the difference with Lavin was you always felt like he might pull a recruiting rabbit out of his hat. He did sign a lot of top 100 kids out of HS including Harkless, Harrison, Pointer, Sampson, Garrett, Jordan & Obekpa and was also heavily in the mix until the very end on Whitehead & Briscoe. While the program was often enveloped in chaos, there was also a sesns of excitement at what might come next until it was apparent he was going and then he stopped working at all.
Also, Lavin was way better at PR than Chris which does affect a coach's popularity when things hit a rough patch.
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.
As we all know neither Mullin nor Lavin will ever be confused with good x's and o's coaches. For me the difference with Lavin was you always felt like he might pull a recruiting rabbit out of his hat. He did sign a lot of top 100 kids out of HS including Harkless, Harrison, Pointer, Sampson, Garrett, Jordan & Obekpa and was also heavily in the mix until the very end on Whitehead & Briscoe. While the program was often enveloped in chaos, there was also a sesns of excitement at what might come next until it was apparent he was going and then he stopped working at all.
Also, Lavin was way better at PR than Chris which does affect a coach's popularity when things hit a rough patch.
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=334603]A recent post really struck me. My apologies for not recalling the poster, but it was essentially a comparison between the end if the Lavin era and today.
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.[/quote]
I think fans are frustrated by what they perceive to be Mullin’s stubbornness. I wasn’t a fan of his hire from the start, not because I didn’t like him, but because I do believe that experience matters. But being a SJU fan, I accepted it and rationalized with “Well, they hired 2 great recruiters to help him (Slice & Matt A).” I think we all knew GSJ was too green for the last job, but most, including myself, were able to look past it. Since then, this situation has gotten progressively worse. I’m still not sure what happened between him and Slice, but whatever it was, it had a negative impact on the program. Who does Mullin replace him with? One of his best friends, who once again has zero experience coaching at all. Now, I know it’s always fun to pound on Mitch, but the reality is, does anybody really know what his role is? Maybe he’s great behind the scenes, but he doesn’t recruit and he’s not especially vocal on the bench. So it begs the question, why is he here?
I really have never had a problem with the idea of Mullin being a figurehead style coach. He wouldn’t have been the first, he won’t be the last. If SJU brought him in and said, ‘Hey, we are going to make sure you always have the best staff around you to make up for your...deficiencies.’ I would be okay with that. But that is clearly not happening. If you watch them, they seemingly never have a game plan. Their fundamentals are consistently awful. Their defense is always half ass. Effort comes into question. All of the above. But also very important to note...they aren’t even in position to get top recruits anymore. Won’t meet on campus with Femi, even though you need a big man. Curbelo hasn’t even been approached by you. What gives?
I like Chris, I really do. But at this point, I have zero interest in going forward with him as a head coach. Personally, I don’t think he even likes doing it. He’s done zero to help himself. He could’ve asked Mitch or GSJ to step aside so he could hire another veteran assistant. He didn’t. We’ve been talking about the same issues for years. Now if what certain posters are saying is correct and he’s locked in next year, then if I’m Cragg I say you are going to have 2 new assistants on your staff next year (assuming Matt A goes to Nebraska, which I fully expect to happen). If he balks or pulls the “this is my program” BS, then it is Cragg’s move. Personally? I’d say thank you for your service, but I don’t see this working out.
The poster commented that there seems to very few redmen.comers still supportive of Mullin the coach. Conversely, I recall a poll on this site after Lavin's last season inquiring whether he should be fired or not. If I remember correctly, the results were near even.
It's remarkable how unpopular our all time greatest player is as our coach. Rightfully so, but remarkable all the same.[/quote]
I think fans are frustrated by what they perceive to be Mullin’s stubbornness. I wasn’t a fan of his hire from the start, not because I didn’t like him, but because I do believe that experience matters. But being a SJU fan, I accepted it and rationalized with “Well, they hired 2 great recruiters to help him (Slice & Matt A).” I think we all knew GSJ was too green for the last job, but most, including myself, were able to look past it. Since then, this situation has gotten progressively worse. I’m still not sure what happened between him and Slice, but whatever it was, it had a negative impact on the program. Who does Mullin replace him with? One of his best friends, who once again has zero experience coaching at all. Now, I know it’s always fun to pound on Mitch, but the reality is, does anybody really know what his role is? Maybe he’s great behind the scenes, but he doesn’t recruit and he’s not especially vocal on the bench. So it begs the question, why is he here?
I really have never had a problem with the idea of Mullin being a figurehead style coach. He wouldn’t have been the first, he won’t be the last. If SJU brought him in and said, ‘Hey, we are going to make sure you always have the best staff around you to make up for your...deficiencies.’ I would be okay with that. But that is clearly not happening. If you watch them, they seemingly never have a game plan. Their fundamentals are consistently awful. Their defense is always half ass. Effort comes into question. All of the above. But also very important to note...they aren’t even in position to get top recruits anymore. Won’t meet on campus with Femi, even though you need a big man. Curbelo hasn’t even been approached by you. What gives?
I like Chris, I really do. But at this point, I have zero interest in going forward with him as a head coach. Personally, I don’t think he even likes doing it. He’s done zero to help himself. He could’ve asked Mitch or GSJ to step aside so he could hire another veteran assistant. He didn’t. We’ve been talking about the same issues for years. Now if what certain posters are saying is correct and he’s locked in next year, then if I’m Cragg I say you are going to have 2 new assistants on your staff next year (assuming Matt A goes to Nebraska, which I fully expect to happen). If he balks or pulls the “this is my program” BS, then it is Cragg’s move. Personally? I’d say thank you for your service, but I don’t see this working out.
southernjohnny2
Member
Yeah that is a fact! If you are alumni, and you have an irrelevant basketball program for decades now, you stop following the team, and instead adopt your new local school, either Duke but mostly UNC. After you have been here awhile and you have experienced how those schools make you feel like family! I guess anyone else who is alumni can tell you from experience.
[quote="tom bradley" post=334617]Yeah that is a fact! If you are alumni, and you have an irrelevant basketball program for decades now, you stop following the team, and instead adopt your new local school, either Duke but mostly UNC. After you have been here awhile and you have experienced how those schools make you feel like family! I guess anyone else who is alumni can tell you from experience.[/quote] I see your point. Being a SJU fan has been tough. That said I don’t think SJU will go for Pitino. But it sure would be nice to see a consistent better product on the floor.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="docbutler" post=334542]Well, we all have our own ideas regarding the quality of Chris Mullin's coaching acumen, but I remain on the record in insisting that he is basically incompetent. A great player, probably the best in our school's history....but a knowledgeable coach he is not! This final game against Arizona State was just more tom foolery, with Mullin insisting to his detriment, in putting Kieta, Trimble, and Simon on the floor at the same time...far too soon. Where in hells bells were you supposed to get your scoring from? He had Figueroa off the floor for no apparent reason at times. He had an entire season to assess his talent and couldn't even decide who he wanted to play. He had a rotating "dog house" that obviously pissed players off. No wonder he can't keep them on his roster. He hasn't recruited a decent big man since he's been here. Owens, who hardly played at Tennessee, ended up being a nice surprise. But he couldn't keep him here either. His teams are ridiculously sloppy. If someone wasn't stepping out of bounds, then they were fouling a three point shooter. There's no discipline. His out of bounds plays suck. He tolerated Ponds, hardly a long range shooter, chucking em' up from 6 ft. behind the 3 point line (yea, he made two early in the Arizona State game, but they were not good shots). They ran sloppy fast breaks all season. Arizona St. only took 4 first half threes.....you think there might have been a reason? A knowledgeable coach might have packed a zone. We fell flat on our face just as soon as opposition defenses started zoning high and our three point percentages went into the toilet. And what has happened to Heron and Clark. Have you ever seen such unpredictable play? They totally sucked us out of that huge final game. And what was Simon doing taking "big shots" at crunch time? Don't you know your own liabilities? I'd also like to know why referees seem to have a hard on for St. John's. The Big East season started with us being jobbed, and it ended the same way. The damn game felt like a road encounter. But seriously, Chris Mullin had some decent talent out there this year, finished the year in a horrendous fizzle,and for my money, he didn't do the job![/quote]
Can't argue with most of your conclusions Doc. This year definitely had some ups, and the deficiencies well known, but the starting 5 had far more potential do be a competitive team than they actually were by season's end. Big disappointment.
Can't argue with most of your conclusions Doc. This year definitely had some ups, and the deficiencies well known, but the starting 5 had far more potential do be a competitive team than they actually were by season's end. Big disappointment.
L J S A
Well-known member
Does Pitino even like us? I think he'd stay overseas if his only NCAA offer was us.
Aside from cheating in recruiting, he banged a woman who isn't his wife on a restaurant table. I think he's one of the top few college coaches of all time, one who really didn't need to cheat because he's that good. But he did, and St. John's is too uptight to ever sign off on it.
The mere mention of his name is a waste of everyone's time and energy.
Aside from cheating in recruiting, he banged a woman who isn't his wife on a restaurant table. I think he's one of the top few college coaches of all time, one who really didn't need to cheat because he's that good. But he did, and St. John's is too uptight to ever sign off on it.
The mere mention of his name is a waste of everyone's time and energy.
Mullin's unpopularity is due mainly to his unwillingness to change his staff. We all realized when he was hired he was going to need help with the X's and O's never having coached and he probably wasn't looking forward to the rigors of recruiting and he seemed to acknowledge this by hiring Slice.
Slice leaves and everything changes. He no longer needs help and while most of us love Chris and what he brought to SJU we are stumped with his current actions.
Slice leaves and everything changes. He no longer needs help and while most of us love Chris and what he brought to SJU we are stumped with his current actions.
JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="MCNPA" post=334556][quote="docbutler" post=334542]Well, we all have our own ideas regarding the quality of Chris Mullin's coaching acumen, but I remain on the record in insisting that he is basically incompetent. A great player, probably the best in our school's history....but a knowledgeable coach he is not! This final game against Arizona State was just more tom foolery, with Mullin insisting to his detriment, in putting Kieta, Trimble, and Simon on the floor at the same time...far too soon. Where in hells bells were you supposed to get your scoring from? He had Figueroa off the floor for no apparent reason at times. He had an entire season to assess his talent and couldn't even decide who he wanted to play. He had a rotating "dog house" that obviously pissed players off. No wonder he can't keep them on his roster. He hasn't recruited a decent big man since he's been here. Owens, who hardly played at Tennessee, ended up being a nice surprise. But he couldn't keep him here either. His teams are ridiculously sloppy. If someone wasn't stepping out of bounds, then they were fouling a three point shooter. There's no discipline. His out of bounds plays suck. He tolerated Ponds, hardly a long range shooter, chucking em' up from 6 ft. behind the 3 point line (yea, he made two early in the Arizona State game, but they were not good shots). They ran sloppy fast breaks all season. Arizona St. only took 4 first half threes.....you think there might have been a reason? A knowledgeable coach might have packed a zone. We fell flat on our face just as soon as opposition defenses started zoning high and our three point percentages went into the toilet. And what has happened to Heron and Clark. Have you ever seen such unpredictable play? They totally sucked us out of that huge final game. And what was Simon doing taking "big shots" at crunch time? Don't you know your own liabilities? I'd also like to know why referees seem to have a hard on for St. John's. The Big East season started with us being jobbed, and it ended the same way. The damn game felt like a road encounter. But seriously, Chris Mullin had some decent talent out there this year, finished the year in a horrendous fizzle,and for my money, he didn't do the job![/quote]
He’s been awful. Our incremental improvement over the last 5 years is solely thanks to the improved talent Matt brought in. Heck, I’m not sure if you cut Mullin loose, and just made Matt the head coach for the next 2 years, we’d be any worse. He’s not bringing much to the table for us because recruits aren’t buying in to our head coach. I actually think Matt’s job recruiting has been great, but hampered most by our lack of a real head coach. Matt will kill under Hoiberg because he can really coach and recruit as well. Ask anybody in college basketball about Mullin’s tenure here. The phrase I hear most often is “dumpster fire”...[/quote]
Agree with Matt A comment. A recruiter is only as good as the product it has to sell IMO. Matt has actually been impressive finding some good talent to come here despite these very rough seasons. Obviously transfers are not a way to build a team long-term, but he had no other option...it was by necessity. Just think about how easy it is to negatively recruit us. Our competition can show recruits videos of Mullin tying his shoes, sitting during games, and even worse...the fact that almost no one gets better over time. Any competent coach will make his players better every year for the most part. By the time they are upperclassmen they should be ready to win a lot of games. If your kids struggle as upperclassmen, something's wrong. I think Matt would be reeling in top 50 recruits from HS consistently if Mullin had Willard's record of success without issue. We know top notch players WILL come here if they have a reason to. You can fool recruits your first year, because they don't know what you can do yet...so you sell hope and your vision. The problem is, if that hope and vision crashes and burns, recruits will call your bluff and stop coming. It's not bad luck, it's recruits voting with their feet against us.
He’s been awful. Our incremental improvement over the last 5 years is solely thanks to the improved talent Matt brought in. Heck, I’m not sure if you cut Mullin loose, and just made Matt the head coach for the next 2 years, we’d be any worse. He’s not bringing much to the table for us because recruits aren’t buying in to our head coach. I actually think Matt’s job recruiting has been great, but hampered most by our lack of a real head coach. Matt will kill under Hoiberg because he can really coach and recruit as well. Ask anybody in college basketball about Mullin’s tenure here. The phrase I hear most often is “dumpster fire”...[/quote]
Agree with Matt A comment. A recruiter is only as good as the product it has to sell IMO. Matt has actually been impressive finding some good talent to come here despite these very rough seasons. Obviously transfers are not a way to build a team long-term, but he had no other option...it was by necessity. Just think about how easy it is to negatively recruit us. Our competition can show recruits videos of Mullin tying his shoes, sitting during games, and even worse...the fact that almost no one gets better over time. Any competent coach will make his players better every year for the most part. By the time they are upperclassmen they should be ready to win a lot of games. If your kids struggle as upperclassmen, something's wrong. I think Matt would be reeling in top 50 recruits from HS consistently if Mullin had Willard's record of success without issue. We know top notch players WILL come here if they have a reason to. You can fool recruits your first year, because they don't know what you can do yet...so you sell hope and your vision. The problem is, if that hope and vision crashes and burns, recruits will call your bluff and stop coming. It's not bad luck, it's recruits voting with their feet against us.
JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=334598]Powerball 750 million dollars. I suggest a lot of people go buy tickets. When I win you will all enjoy the self titled mjmaherjr air conditioning at Carnesseca arena and the new made for any fat ass extra padded seat cushions[/quote]
I'll win and build the new Mike Zaun Arena!
I'll win and build the new Mike Zaun Arena!
- Status