Syracuse Fans Complaining About Big East Hoops

[austour]

Next year they'll be complaining how boring the ACC is after Duke and UNC.

Or how they won't be able to dominate the ACC like they were the Big East!

Dominate? Great program but far from domination. In the past 10 years since his national championship they've only won the conference reg season twice. They've won the BET twice, once with a losing conference record. They've been in the top 3 half the time since then which is great, but not dominating. A very interesting fact immaterial to this point is that Jim B has never won the BE reg season and the BE tournament in the same year. The closest they cam to conference domination was '85-91 when they won the conference 4 times in 6 years and the BET one of the other two. That was when they clearly had top 3 talent every year but Boeheim couldn't win the big one and we all called him a shite coach. But damn, those teams were fun to watch. I remember a pre-season NIT one of those years with the Douglas/Coleman/Seikaly team running some other top 5 team out of the gym highlighted by a Sherman Douglas long snapper style pass for a breakaway dunk that brought the house down. I forget who it was to.

 

[SJUalum98]

read this from Igor
we lead the nation in fouls. we give up more natural 3pt and 4 point plays than anyone.. we have given more all time scoring records than any team in his 37 years. jb claps when southerland goes from 40. he gripes when he misses. he plays who he wants like triche rather than watching his production. his players deserve better. the majority of the 35 k qre idiots like u and want him for another 10 years . he develops few. christmas is a wasted stud. mcw is a wasted stud. its not losing that bothers me, but rather boeheim blaming everyone but himself
Wow, some second year student moron has his opinions about a HOF 900 win coach. Laughable.
You take these boards like a grain of salt.

Player development has always been one of the observations I've noticed with Boeheim-coached players.

They pile up college wins but they translate poorly to the NBA. Especially on the defensive end.

Lawrence Moten was one of my favorite players to watch years ago. He was nothing after he left.

His "bigs" just don't have that it factor when it comes to being a pro. We should be seeing much more from Rakeem Christmas as a Soph. He just seems to be out there.

Chris McCullough would thrive in our system but you can't convince everyone that.

 

[austour]

You stare at Elsa Benitez while Rony Seikaly spins tunes and tell me he doesn't have the "it" factor. Oh, you mean on the court . . . never mind. (yeah I know they're not married anymore but they were and it fit the joke so whatever)

 

[MJDinkins]

The closest they cam to conference domination was '85-91 when they won the conference 4 times in 6 years and the BET one of the other two. That was when they clearly had top 3 talent every year but Boeheim couldn't win the big one and we all called him a shite coach. But damn, those teams were fun to watch. I remember a pre-season NIT one of those years with the Douglas/Coleman/Seikaly team running some other top 5 team out of the gym highlighted by a Sherman Douglas long snapper style pass for a breakaway dunk that brought the house down. I forget who it was to.

I remember the game well. It was Indiana in the semifinals of the Preseason NIT at MSG ('88-'89 season). This was the season after Seikaly. It was a dunk-a-thon, per Coleman, Owens, and Thompson. My brothers were laughing with all the dunks Syracuse was putting on Indiana.

Actually, Indiana was ranked #20 at the time (I had to look this one up, lol). By the way, several of us use to think Boeheim was suspect coach back in those days, as well. We figured he had so much talent, which was the reason he could win.

http://www.databasesports.com/ncaab/polls.htm?season=1988&week=2

 

[SJUalum98]

You stare at Elsa Benitez while Rony Seikaly spins tunes and tell me he doesn't have the "it" factor. Oh, you mean on the court . . . never mind. (yeah I know they're not married anymore but they were and it fit the joke so whatever)

Lavin's wife>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything that ever came out of Cuse

 

[SJU85]

I know I always played "take it back" so even after rebounds we would take it to around the 3 pt line if it was a half court.

In Queens we took it out to the foul line playing half court. A "fast break" would have you dribble quickly to take it back, slide your foot across the plane of the foul line, and take it back to the hoop. Actually, taking it back always made more sense to me than straight up, which black kids played. If you played striaght up on a black court, and pulled up for a short jumper instead of taking it all the way to the hole, black kids would taunt you that you were scared (of the contact). If you could play hard nosed basketball on those courts without complaining when you took the hits, you could gain a lot of respect. In the days where racial tensions were pretyt bad, you could break down a lot of barriers through hoops.

I'm black. Played with black and white kids in Brooklyn and Queens. We always took it back out to the foul line. Didn't have a 3 pt line in my day, Joe. If you were playing 2 on 2, you would hope your partner went out for thr pass and then look to set up down low for a quick return pass.

Hey cool, thanks for the info. When I played in the schoolyards, which was long past my prime (which I never really had), that was the big differentiator between how white and black kids played halfcourt. I used to play in the citywide tournament in Springifield Garden in Monte bellair (SP?) park. Great competition. Entire HS varisty teams woudl enter.

Played quite a few baseball and basketball games at Montebellier Park (dude you were close, but I had the opportunity to look it up ). Basketball games there were not for the weak and I knew when it was time for my talent level to get off the court.

 

[SJU85]

You stare at Elsa Benitez while Rony Seikaly spins tunes and tell me he doesn't have the "it" factor. Oh, you mean on the court . . . never mind. (yeah I know they're not married anymore but they were and it fit the joke so whatever)

If not the "it" factor, he obviously had something.

I had an opportunity to attend the press conference after we beat them up there doing the 84/85 season. I had heard that the Syracuse press could be tough, but man, was that an understatement. I could not believe some of the questions. Me an another St. John's Student, just shook our heads. After witnessing that, I sort of understood why Boeheim could be so uptight.

 

[SJU85]

The closest they cam to conference domination was '85-91 when they won the conference 4 times in 6 years and the BET one of the other two. That was when they clearly had top 3 talent every year but Boeheim couldn't win the big one and we all called him a shite coach. But damn, those teams were fun to watch. I remember a pre-season NIT one of those years with the Douglas/Coleman/Seikaly team running some other top 5 team out of the gym highlighted by a Sherman Douglas long snapper style pass for a breakaway dunk that brought the house down. I forget who it was to.

I remember the game well. It was Indiana in the semifinals of the Preseason NIT at MSG ('88-'89 season). This was the season after Seikaly. It was a dunk-a-thon, per Coleman, Owens, and Thompson. My brothers were laughing with all the dunks Syracuse was putting on Indiana.

Actually, Indiana was ranked #20 at the time (I had to look this one up, lol). By the way, several of us use to think Boeheim was suspect coach back in those days, as well. We figured he had so much talent, which was the reason he could win.

http://www.databasesports.com/ncaab/polls.htm?season=1988&week=2

.

I was one of those who thought he won on talent alone.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Played at Foster Park, Flatbush Bklyn back in the day. Very mixed, whites and blacks. Best games were on the first court, lesser games on the further away courts.

Mike Dunleavey was there a lot along with a bunch of other good players, Jim McMIllan, Heyward Dotson, Kenny Charles. Bunch of very good players no one ever heard of McManus brothers, George Bruns...

We played "no hanging" if it was full court.

Half court--bring it back to the foul line to give a change for the defense to set; call your own foul; if it went in it didn't count; no foul shots, you just got to keep the ball.

The games were single point each basket up to 11; you had to win by two, so you kept playing until one team won by two.

It was "losers out", so if you scored the other team got the ball behind the line.

You had to make at least two passes at the time of taking the ball out, whether it was after a made basket or out-of-bounds. Always behind the foul line which was imaginaryly extended across the court.

No three point line.

If you called too many of your own fouls no one would want to play with you--so no one did.

You also called your own turnovers, double dribble, walking, palming/carrying the ball....but again no one got crazy making calls or else they couldn't find a game. No one wanted to play with the "babies" and everyone knew who the babies were. It was sort of a man-code thing not to make calls except for teh egregious ones. And guys sometimes called a foul or turnover on themselves. That was ok. Offensive fouls were pretty rare.

If your team won, you kept the court until someone beat you. You asked for next, to get a game and if you were alone you picked from the among the guys whose team lost to get a full squad.

Most games were half court. Full-court was more rare.

Foster Park was fairly legendary for high quality of play. Immortalized in a book named "Heaven is a Playground", by a writer for SI. Played up this black guy named Rodney who was a so-so player, but was a hustler and street agent placing all sorts of kids in colleges. Later years I'd see him outside the Garden hustling tickets for all events. He remembered us 30 years later, haven't seen him for quite some time. I hope he is alive.

 

[westchesterjoe]

I remember half court games as you've described. It brought back many memories.. I'm thinking playground games are pretty much played by the same ground rules now, as then?

Not shooting free throws though, struck me as odd. Not having refs may have influenced that difference in the game. And, in the playground, it would have slowed the game down

Seeing how poorly many college kids shoot foul shots today makes me think the playground rules contribute to that statistic It also seems to make free throws seem unimportant yet, in organized ball it's a integral part of the game.

i'm wondering what kind of playground player, Chris Mullin was as a kid? I'm thinking he was plenty good, playing against any competition..

In the book about the DREAM TEAM by Jack MacCallum, Scotty Pippen, one of the great defenders of all time, was quoted saying about Mullin.. " Mully would back door me all the time." Obviously, with a high degree of success..

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Mike Dunleavey (not Jr., the old man---he he- a year younger than me)--was a God as Foster Park he was soo good.

Mullin from what I hear came there too much later than Dunleavey and was even better. They played exclusively on the first court with all of the best players, almost exclusively African-Americans.

 

[beast of the east]

Played at Foster Park, Flatbush Bklyn back in the day. Very mixed, whites and blacks. Best games were on the first court, lesser games on the further away courts.

Mike Dunleavey was there a lot along with a bunch of other good players, Jim McMIllan, Heyward Dotson, Kenny Charles. Bunch of very good players no one ever heard of McManus brothers, George Bruns...

We played "no hanging" if it was full court.

Half court--bring it back to the foul line to give a change for the defense to set; call your own foul; if it went in it didn't count; no foul shots, you just got to keep the ball.

The games were single point each basket up to 11; you had to win by two, so you kept playing until one team won by two.

It was "losers out", so if you scored the other team got the ball behind the line.

You had to make at least two passes at the time of taking the ball out, whether it was after a made basket or out-of-bounds. Always behind the foul line which was imaginaryly extended across the court.

No three point line.

If you called too many of your own fouls no one would want to play with you--so no one did.

You also called your own turnovers, double dribble, walking, palming/carrying the ball....but again no one got crazy making calls or else they couldn't find a game. No one wanted to play with the "babies" and everyone knew who the babies were. It was sort of a man-code thing not to make calls except for teh egregious ones. And guys sometimes called a foul or turnover on themselves. That was ok. Offensive fouls were pretty rare.

If your team won, you kept the court until someone beat you. You asked for next, to get a game and if you were alone you picked from the among the guys whose team lost to get a full squad.

Most games were half court. Full-court was more rare.

Foster Park was fairly legendary for high quality of play. Immortalized in a book named "Heaven is a Playground", by a writer for SI. Played up this black guy named Rodney who was a so-so player, but was a hustler and street agent placing all sorts of kids in colleges. Later years I'd see him outside the Garden hustling tickets for all events. He remembered us 30 years later, haven't seen him for quite some time. I hope he is alive.

Awesome post man. In Queens, we always played winners out, which in some ways is more fun because you could be getting wiped 8-0, and still come back if you got hot.

Good observation about self calls - it was regulated by the crap a guy took if he made a lot of bad calls and whined too much. Guys I worked with in Harlem told me that in the schoolyard Lew Alcindor was disliked immensely because he didn't like to be touched and called a ton of fouls, even at 7-2.

Great recollection regarding two passes after you took it out behind the line. Similar rules.

George Bruns was a very good college player for Manhattan, and had a few 10 day contracts with the ABA Nets. I believe that on one or two occasions scored around 16 in a game for them. In his fifties he was still a blur - the quickest older guy I'd ever see play. He teaches at NCC now and I believe still runs a summer camp in Nassau County. I believe he is a PhD in Math.

Great job - plus 2.

 

[beast of the east]

I know I always played "take it back" so even after rebounds we would take it to around the 3 pt line if it was a half court.

In Queens we took it out to the foul line playing half court. A "fast break" would have you dribble quickly to take it back, slide your foot across the plane of the foul line, and take it back to the hoop. Actually, taking it back always made more sense to me than straight up, which black kids played. If you played striaght up on a black court, and pulled up for a short jumper instead of taking it all the way to the hole, black kids would taunt you that you were scared (of the contact). If you could play hard nosed basketball on those courts without complaining when you took the hits, you could gain a lot of respect. In the days where racial tensions were pretyt bad, you could break down a lot of barriers through hoops.

I'm black. Played with black and white kids in Brooklyn and Queens. We always took it back out to the foul line. Didn't have a 3 pt line in my day, Joe. If you were playing 2 on 2, you would hope your partner went out for thr pass and then look to set up down low for a quick return pass.

Hey cool, thanks for the info. When I played in the schoolyards, which was long past my prime (which I never really had), that was the big differentiator between how white and black kids played halfcourt. I used to play in the citywide tournament in Springifield Garden in Monte bellair (SP?) park. Great competition. Entire HS varisty teams woudl enter.

Played quite a few baseball and basketball games at Montebellier Park (dude you were close, but I had the opportunity to look it up ). Basketball games there were not for the weak and I knew when it was time for my talent level to get off the court.

You are right about it being not for the weak. I remember scoring a basket on a strong schoolyard move against a local team in a close game. I faked a hook in mid air and when a kid went up to block it brought the ball down and scooped it in with one hand, drawing a foul and the basket. A local guy watching underneath the basket said in an even tone, "Nice move, man. Don't do it again." With that he took a switchblade out of his pocket and flipped it open in one move. Rather than panic, I laughed, and said, "Ok, no problem. I'm good with that."

One other thing about schoolyard basketball. Although big name guys - high school stars and college players - were kind of marked men in schoolyard games, with guys playing their best and hardest against them, if you were a nobody and could play, that was all that mattered. You proved yourself, and could get chosen if you lost once you had some credibility. Else you had to wait winners, sometimes 4 or 5 games worth.

 

[Moose]

I came here looking for whiney Cuse fans and got playground stories

 

[beast of the east]

I came here looking for whiney Cuse fans and got playground stories

Sorry for hijacking the thread. Talking schoolyard basketball is such a great subject though, and brought back a lot of memories.

 

[beast of the east]

I'll add one other venue that some of you may have experience with. Lots has been written about the legendary battles that occurred in Rockaway Beach at 108th Street on the outdoor courts. The McGuires, with the family bar just a couple of blocks away, and Bob Cousy also a Rockaway kid, helped estbalish those courts as a serious place to play if you wanted to find game. In those days, the very best in the city would sojourn to find great games and great competition. For those guys, defending the honor of your home court was about as important as a nation defending its shores from foreign attack. By the time I would bring a ball strapped to the back of a bicycle in the mid 70s, the courts were about as dead on a hot summer's day at the beach as could possibly be, although you sometimes found a game there. If I'm not mistaken, guys like Alcindor and maybe even Len Elmore played there some, but I could be wrong. Stepping onto those courts as ratty as they were and uninviting in 90 degree heat, was kind of stepping onto hallowed ground with the ghosts of the McGuires and Cousy almost present. You could almost imagine the McGuires getting yelled at from two blocks away being called to get back to work at the bar.

 

[Northernmost]

Played at Foster Park, Flatbush Bklyn back in the day. Very mixed, whites and blacks. Best games were on the first court, lesser games on the further away courts.

Mike Dunleavey was there a lot along with a bunch of other good players, Jim McMIllan, Heyward Dotson, Kenny Charles. Bunch of very good players no one ever heard of McManus brothers, George Bruns...

We played "no hanging" if it was full court.

Half court--bring it back to the foul line to give a change for the defense to set; call your own foul; if it went in it didn't count; no foul shots, you just got to keep the ball.

The games were single point each basket up to 11; you had to win by two, so you kept playing until one team won by two.

It was "losers out", so if you scored the other team got the ball behind the line.

You had to make at least two passes at the time of taking the ball out, whether it was after a made basket or out-of-bounds. Always behind the foul line which was imaginaryly extended across the court.

No three point line.

If you called too many of your own fouls no one would want to play with you--so no one did.

You also called your own turnovers, double dribble, walking, palming/carrying the ball....but again no one got crazy making calls or else they couldn't find a game. No one wanted to play with the "babies" and everyone knew who the babies were. It was sort of a man-code thing not to make calls except for teh egregious ones. And guys sometimes called a foul or turnover on themselves. That was ok. Offensive fouls were pretty rare.

If your team won, you kept the court until someone beat you. You asked for next, to get a game and if you were alone you picked from the among the guys whose team lost to get a full squad.

Most games were half court. Full-court was more rare.

Foster Park was fairly legendary for high quality of play. Immortalized in a book named "Heaven is a Playground", by a writer for SI. Played up this black guy named Rodney who was a so-so player, but was a hustler and street agent placing all sorts of kids in colleges. Later years I'd see him outside the Garden hustling tickets for all events. He remembered us 30 years later, haven't seen him for quite some time. I hope he is alive.

Awesome post man. In Queens, we always played winners out, which in some ways is more fun because you could be getting wiped 8-0, and still come back if you got hot.

Good observation about self calls - it was regulated by the crap a guy took if he made a lot of bad calls and whined too much. Guys I worked with in Harlem told me that in the schoolyard Lew Alcindor was disliked immensely because he didn't like to be touched and called a ton of fouls, even at 7-2.

Great recollection regarding two passes after you took it out behind the line. Similar rules.

George Bruns was a very good college player for Manhattan, and had a few 10 day contracts with the ABA Nets. I believe that on one or two occasions scored around 16 in a game for them. In his fifties he was still a blur - the quickest older guy I'd ever see play. He teaches at NCC now and I believe still runs a summer camp in Nassau County. I believe he is a PhD in Math.

Great job - plus 2.

I played at Foster Park in the mid-60's with the likes of George Bruns (St. Augustine 61 or 62 then to Manhattan) Tom McNeese (St. Augustiine 64 then to UConn) Billy Boyd (St. Augustine 62 To Manhattan) Bill Twyman (St. Augustine '64 Went to St Peter's). I was one of the guys that would get picked to fill out a team. Didn't play in HS as I was 4'10" when I started and 5'10" when I was a junior. Wanted to play for St. Augustine's at that time but Brother Jerome said to stick with track... didn't want to bump someone already on squad since 61. I graduated in 64. Loved those days. Played "touch" football on the tar softball fields of Foster Park in the Fall and Winter.

 

[beast of the east]

Played at Foster Park, Flatbush Bklyn back in the day. Very mixed, whites and blacks. Best games were on the first court, lesser games on the further away courts.

Mike Dunleavey was there a lot along with a bunch of other good players, Jim McMIllan, Heyward Dotson, Kenny Charles. Bunch of very good players no one ever heard of McManus brothers, George Bruns...

We played "no hanging" if it was full court.

Half court--bring it back to the foul line to give a change for the defense to set; call your own foul; if it went in it didn't count; no foul shots, you just got to keep the ball.

The games were single point each basket up to 11; you had to win by two, so you kept playing until one team won by two.

It was "losers out", so if you scored the other team got the ball behind the line.

You had to make at least two passes at the time of taking the ball out, whether it was after a made basket or out-of-bounds. Always behind the foul line which was imaginaryly extended across the court.

No three point line.

If you called too many of your own fouls no one would want to play with you--so no one did.

You also called your own turnovers, double dribble, walking, palming/carrying the ball....but again no one got crazy making calls or else they couldn't find a game. No one wanted to play with the "babies" and everyone knew who the babies were. It was sort of a man-code thing not to make calls except for teh egregious ones. And guys sometimes called a foul or turnover on themselves. That was ok. Offensive fouls were pretty rare.

If your team won, you kept the court until someone beat you. You asked for next, to get a game and if you were alone you picked from the among the guys whose team lost to get a full squad.

Most games were half court. Full-court was more rare.

Foster Park was fairly legendary for high quality of play. Immortalized in a book named "Heaven is a Playground", by a writer for SI. Played up this black guy named Rodney who was a so-so player, but was a hustler and street agent placing all sorts of kids in colleges. Later years I'd see him outside the Garden hustling tickets for all events. He remembered us 30 years later, haven't seen him for quite some time. I hope he is alive.

Awesome post man. In Queens, we always played winners out, which in some ways is more fun because you could be getting wiped 8-0, and still come back if you got hot.

Good observation about self calls - it was regulated by the crap a guy took if he made a lot of bad calls and whined too much. Guys I worked with in Harlem told me that in the schoolyard Lew Alcindor was disliked immensely because he didn't like to be touched and called a ton of fouls, even at 7-2.

Great recollection regarding two passes after you took it out behind the line. Similar rules.

George Bruns was a very good college player for Manhattan, and had a few 10 day contracts with the ABA Nets. I believe that on one or two occasions scored around 16 in a game for them. In his fifties he was still a blur - the quickest older guy I'd ever see play. He teaches at NCC now and I believe still runs a summer camp in Nassau County. I believe he is a PhD in Math.

Great job - plus 2.

I played at Foster Park in the mid-60's with the likes of George Bruns (St. Augustine 61 or 62 then to Manhattan) Tom McNeese (St. Augustiine 64 then to UConn) Billy Boyd (St. Augustine 62 To Manhattan) Bill Twyman (St. Augustine '64 Went to St Peter's). I was one of the guys that would get picked to fill out a team. Didn't play in HS as I was 4'10" when I started and 5'10" when I was a junior. Wanted to play for St. Augustine's at that time but Brother Jerome said to stick with track... didn't want to bump someone already on squad since 61. I graduated in 64. Loved those days. Played "touch" football on the tar softball fields of Foster Park in the Fall and Winter.

Thinking about your post, it was kind of nice when our local college teams were recruited entirely from the Metro area. It was much easier for locals to become fans of schools they didn't attend themselves because they were represented by players from their high schools, neighborhoods, or CHSAA or PSAL. Although long gone, I still look at NYC kids competing against us playing at ACC or other Big East schools and think of them as traitors of sorts. It isn't fair to do so, but, hey, life isn't fair.

 

[austour]

The closest they cam to conference domination was '85-91 when they won the conference 4 times in 6 years and the BET one of the other two. That was when they clearly had top 3 talent every year but Boeheim couldn't win the big one and we all called him a shite coach. But damn, those teams were fun to watch. I remember a pre-season NIT one of those years with the Douglas/Coleman/Seikaly team running some other top 5 team out of the gym highlighted by a Sherman Douglas long snapper style pass for a breakaway dunk that brought the house down. I forget who it was to.

I remember the game well. It was Indiana in the semifinals of the Preseason NIT at MSG ('88-'89 season). This was the season after Seikaly. It was a dunk-a-thon, per Coleman, Owens, and Thompson. My brothers were laughing with all the dunks Syracuse was putting on Indiana.

Actually, Indiana was ranked #20 at the time (I had to look this one up, lol). By the way, several of us use to think Boeheim was suspect coach back in those days, as well. We figured he had so much talent, which was the reason he could win.

http://www.databasesports.com/ncaab/polls.htm?season=1988&week=2

.

I was one of those who thought he won on talent alone.

80% of us did, 10% are too young to remember and 10% are lying.

 

[austour]

You stare at Elsa Benitez while Rony Seikaly spins tunes and tell me he doesn't have the "it" factor. Oh, you mean on the court . . . never mind. (yeah I know they're not married anymore but they were and it fit the joke so whatever)

Lavin's wife>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything that ever came out of Cuse

Mary Ann is a very attractive woman, Elsa Benitez . . . legendary.