Sunday N.Y. Daily News / For SJU, It's Glory Daze

[quote="MCNPA" post=359430][quote="Mike Zaun" post=359427]I think CMA can be another Cooley...he just badly needs to land 1 legitimate class first. Not sure he will succeed here with mostly 2-3 star talent when the rest of the conference has 3-4. Remember, 2 star is Marist territory. So far CMA's intangibles have been very solid...no nonsense and hard work. Kids seem to be buying in. But we just need that 1 legit class. After we lose LJ and Heron next year it's going to be pretty rough again most likely.[/quote]

Mike Anderson 369-200
Ed Cooley 254-179

Mike Anderson can be another Cooley??? Maybe Cooley has he potential to be a Mike Anderson... Anderson’s record is a ton better in top conferences.[/quote]

No, PC doesn't go far in the NCAA Tournaments. CMA gotta be better then Cooley.
Want SJU to make noise in the NCAA, not bounced in the 1st or 2nd game. Yes, I'm very very greedy.

17 years without a losing is a great accomplishment, no doubr. Roy and Izzo also did that, only difference is they have championships. That's the only thing CMA is missing.
Gotta thrive to do better.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=359441][quote="MCNPA" post=359430][quote="Mike Zaun" post=359427]I think CMA can be another Cooley...he just badly needs to land 1 legitimate class first. Not sure he will succeed here with mostly 2-3 star talent when the rest of the conference has 3-4. Remember, 2 star is Marist territory. So far CMA's intangibles have been very solid...no nonsense and hard work. Kids seem to be buying in. But we just need that 1 legit class. After we lose LJ and Heron next year it's going to be pretty rough again most likely.[/quote]

Mike Anderson 369-200
Ed Cooley 254-179

Mike Anderson can be another Cooley??? Maybe Cooley has he potential to be a Mike Anderson... Anderson’s record is a ton better in top conferences.[/quote]

No, PC doesn't go far in the NCAA Tournaments. CMA gotta be better then Cooley.
Want SJU to make noise in the NCAA, not bounced in the 1st or 2nd game. Yes, I'm very very greedy.

17 years without a losing is a great accomplishment, no doubr. Roy and Izzo also did that, only difference is they have championships. That's the only thing CMA is missing.
Gotta thrive to do better.[/quote]

I will say this about PC: Cooley seems to always have his teams playing better down the stretch of the Big East season, whereas even our NCAA teams under Lavin and Mullin staggered down the stretch. A Cooley team is a tough out most of the time, and I will be happy if that t of end to end improvement becomes a trademark of CMA teams here.
 
The Daily News actually put the three words "HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS" in their paper - REALLY ? Holy shitttttttttttt. Where's HBO's John Oliver when you need him?
The only time in recent years their sinking paper mentioned high school sports was to describe the victim of a drive by shooting as "he or she was a H.S. player! The genius decision makers there abandoned their coverage of "The City Game" 5+ years ago when they stopped covering the PSAL Hoops Championships @ MSG & the CHSAA @ Fordham. The long time tradition of naming ALL-CITY TEAMS in Basketball. Football, Baseball, Softball, Tennis etc. has also been kicked to the curb. In these new days of the Internet & Social Media these decision makers even removed coverage of High School Sports from the Daily News Web site. Did ANYONE consider that you KEEP your readership interested in your paper by covering H.S. sports & NOT even putting H.S.sports on your web site ? Duhhhhhhhhhh !
Was any thought given to the idea that just within the 5 Boroughs of NYC EVERY Year, there are over 50,000 H.S. students participating in sports ? Do the Math !!!! Those 50,000 have Parents, Relatives, Fans. Throw in former students (Alumni) that still followed their H.S. teams & the numbers sky rocket. Way to MOTIVATE people to read the Daily News paper or web site!!!!! RIDICULOUS!
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=359442][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=359441][quote="MCNPA" post=359430][quote="Mike Zaun" post=359427]I think CMA can be another Cooley...he just badly needs to land 1 legitimate class first. Not sure he will succeed here with mostly 2-3 star talent when the rest of the conference has 3-4. Remember, 2 star is Marist territory. So far CMA's intangibles have been very solid...no nonsense and hard work. Kids seem to be buying in. But we just need that 1 legit class. After we lose LJ and Heron next year it's going to be pretty rough again most likely.[/quote]

Mike Anderson 369-200
Ed Cooley 254-179

Mike Anderson can be another Cooley??? Maybe Cooley has he potential to be a Mike Anderson... Anderson’s record is a ton better in top conferences.[/quote]

No, PC doesn't go far in the NCAA Tournaments. CMA gotta be better then Cooley.
Want SJU to make noise in the NCAA, not bounced in the 1st or 2nd game. Yes, I'm very very greedy.

17 years without a losing is a great accomplishment, no doubr. Roy and Izzo also did that, only difference is they have championships. That's the only thing CMA is missing.
Gotta thrive to do better.[/quote]

I will say this about PC: Cooley seems to always have his teams playing better down the stretch of the Big East season, whereas even our NCAA teams under Lavin and Mullin staggered down the stretch. A Cooley team is a tough out most of the time, and I will be happy if that t of end to end improvement becomes a trademark of CMA teams here.[/quote]


Cooley's a better coach than anyone we've had here in the past 25 years
 
[quote="MarkRedman" post=359453][quote="Beast of the East" post=359442][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=359441][quote="MCNPA" post=359430][quote="Mike Zaun" post=359427]I think CMA can be another Cooley...he just badly needs to land 1 legitimate class first. Not sure he will succeed here with mostly 2-3 star talent when the rest of the conference has 3-4. Remember, 2 star is Marist territory. So far CMA's intangibles have been very solid...no nonsense and hard work. Kids seem to be buying in. But we just need that 1 legit class. After we lose LJ and Heron next year it's going to be pretty rough again most likely.[/quote]

Mike Anderson 369-200
Ed Cooley 254-179

Mike Anderson can be another Cooley??? Maybe Cooley has he potential to be a Mike Anderson... Anderson’s record is a ton better in top conferences.[/quote]

No, PC doesn't go far in the NCAA Tournaments. CMA gotta be better then Cooley.
Want SJU to make noise in the NCAA, not bounced in the 1st or 2nd game. Yes, I'm very very greedy.

17 years without a losing is a great accomplishment, no doubr. Roy and Izzo also did that, only difference is they have championships. That's the only thing CMA is missing.
Gotta thrive to do better.[/quote]

I will say this about PC: Cooley seems to always have his teams playing better down the stretch of the Big East season, whereas even our NCAA teams under Lavin and Mullin staggered down the stretch. A Cooley team is a tough out most of the time, and I will be happy if that t of end to end improvement becomes a trademark of CMA teams here.[/quote]


Cooley's a better coach than anyone we've had here in the past 25 years[/quote]

Hey, if you guys are fine with 1 and done, or 2 and done, then hey, that's your preference. There's nothing wrong with that. My preference is to go deeper and atleast making the second week. The first year SJU get to the tourny, I'll be ok with 2 and out only because we haven't won a singly tourny game since 01.
After his first appearance, I want more. I don't have it in me to settle.
Like I said this morning I'M VERY GREEDY
 
Cooley might be a solid coach but my point was to look at Cooley’s record vs Mike Anderson in even tougher conferences to succeed. I like Cooley but I’ll take Mike Anderson. I don’t think Anderson with over 100 more wins that Cooley with similar losses wants to settle for being “another Cooley” either.
 
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I'd take Cooley's performance in a heart beat. The regular season is a far better measure of coaching ability than the post season, as the Tournament is very random. I simply think he has gotten unlucky in the Tournament given the small sample size and close results.

Take my Braves for instance. Since 2002 we are 0-8 in the first round (or Wild Card) of the playoffs. That is with many different managers and players, and often we were favored to win the series.

This example is much more extreme, as unlike the Braves, Providence has advanced in the Tournament under Cooley. MLB is also a 5 game series vs 1. That said, does getting bounced early make the Braves teams that won 95-100+ games bad? No, super frustrating, but mostly unlucky. Even if we get bounced again this year, I'd still take our players and a high probability of making the playoffs over a rebuild next year.

Providence will make it to the second weekend soon, I have no doubts about that. If they played like we did in the First Four this year then I'd be concerned, but that's not the case. They're a good team and Cooley is a good coach.
 
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Louie made the dance 16 of his last 18 years at STJ. He made it out of the 2nd round 4 times, 25%.
I understand many complained about Louie's results in the day, but not as much as they have complained about the results since.
 
[quote="austour" post=359458]Louie made the dance 16 of his last 18 years at STJ. He made it out of the 2nd round 4 times, 25%.
I understand many complained about Louie's results in the day, but not as much as they have complained about the results since.[/quote]

I guess the bigger issue is how many of those loses were truly expected vs. a huge letdown. I remember being angry that we lost to Tulane, even though that silly posse/sub five guys in and out thing they did was a minor sensation that year for the Green Wave. And losing with Walter sucked. Most of the other years are all a blur to me. The Internet back then would have made it easier to research, but I'll assume we deserved to be in most if not all of those years, as opposed to getting in because Louie was charming and mid-major hatred was super strong back then.
 
[quote="MarkRedman" post=359453][quote="Beast of the East" post=359442][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=359441][quote="MCNPA" post=359430][quote="Mike Zaun" post=359427]I think CMA can be another Cooley...he just badly needs to land 1 legitimate class first. Not sure he will succeed here with mostly 2-3 star talent when the rest of the conference has 3-4. Remember, 2 star is Marist territory. So far CMA's intangibles have been very solid...no nonsense and hard work. Kids seem to be buying in. But we just need that 1 legit class. After we lose LJ and Heron next year it's going to be pretty rough again most likely.[/quote]

Mike Anderson 369-200
Ed Cooley 254-179

Mike Anderson can be another Cooley??? Maybe Cooley has he potential to be a Mike Anderson... Anderson’s record is a ton better in top conferences.[/quote]

No, PC doesn't go far in the NCAA Tournaments. CMA gotta be better then Cooley.
Want SJU to make noise in the NCAA, not bounced in the 1st or 2nd game. Yes, I'm very very greedy.

17 years without a losing is a great accomplishment, no doubr. Roy and Izzo also did that, only difference is they have championships. That's the only thing CMA is missing.
Gotta thrive to do better.[/quote]

I will say this about PC: Cooley seems to always have his teams playing better down the stretch of the Big East season, whereas even our NCAA teams under Lavin and Mullin staggered down the stretch. A Cooley team is a tough out most of the time, and I will be happy if that t of end to end improvement becomes a trademark of CMA teams here.[/quote]


Cooley's a better coach than anyone we've had here in the past 25 years[/quote]

I totally disagree with this. Fran and Jarvis were both better and by a long way, regardless of whether we agree with how they conducted themselves at times. Cooley is a good coach, but we give him way too much credit on this board. His teams perform their best when they’re overlooked and they can surprise you. I like him and hope he stays at PC, but let’s relax with the accolades a bit.
 
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[quote="Jnaw17" post=359574]
I totally disagree with this. Fran and Jarvis were both better and by a long way, regardless of whether we agree with how they conducted themselves at times. Cooley is a good coach, but we give him way too much credit on this board. His teams perform their best when they’re overlooked and they can surprise you. I like him and hope he stays at PC, but let’s relax with the accolades a bit.[/quote]

Agree, Jnaw. I'm a Cooley fan myself, but feels he's overrated by several on this board. I think he's a solid coach, no doubt, and would certainly take him as our head coach if opportunity were to one day knock. But to say he's better than any coach we've had in 25 years and Anderson needs to be better than Cooley is a bit too much.

Anderson is already better than Cooley, if we simply go on what they've done in their coaching career. Anderson--minus his best player--also handled Cooley's team (in Providence) in last season's NIT.

It's easy to say who's better hindsight. But at the brief height of Fraschilla, and during Jarvis' first few seasons (definitely, his first two).... I'm not sure Cooley was better than Fraschilla, and certainly not better than Jarvis.

The NCAA Tournament can be a crapshoot. It's also a situation similar to boxing where styles makes fights. Particularly, when there's a quick turnaround between the 1st and 2nd round, Sweet 16 and Elite 8, and so on. But careers are also defined by what you do in the dance. Eventually, Cooley will need to find some success when he's on the "dance floor."
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=359580][quote="Jnaw17" post=359574]
I totally disagree with this. Fran and Jarvis were both better and by a long way, regardless of whether we agree with how they conducted themselves at times. Cooley is a good coach, but we give him way too much credit on this board. His teams perform their best when they’re overlooked and they can surprise you. I like him and hope he stays at PC, but let’s relax with the accolades a bit.[/quote]

Agree, Jnaw. I'm a Cooley fan myself, but feels he's overrated by several on this board. I think he's a solid coach, no doubt, and would certainly take him as our head coach if opportunity were to one day knock. But to say he's better than any coach we've had in 25 years and Anderson needs to be better than Cooley is a bit too much.

Anderson is already better than Cooley, if we simply go on what they've done in their coaching career. Anderson--minus his best player--also handled Cooley's team (in Providence) in last season's NIT.

It's easy to say who's better hindsight. But at the brief height of Fraschilla, and during Jarvis' first few seasons (definitely, his first two).... I'm not sure Cooley was better than Fraschilla, and certainly not better than Jarvis.

The NCAA Tournament can be a crapshoot. It's also a situation similar to boxing where styles makes fights. Particularly, when there's a quick turnaround between the 1st and 2nd round, Sweet 16 and Elite 8, and so on. But careers are also defined by what you do in the dance. Eventually, Cooley will need to find some success when he's on the "dance floor."[/quote]

Don't interpet my comments as over the top, but also remember that Cooley came from Fairfield, not Arkansas and Missouri, and Cooley took a bottom dweller in Providence and made them a very competitive team in conference. Guaranteed though, if he catches lightning in the bottle with the right recruits and got to the final four that a much bigger program would snatch him almost immediately should he want that. For that sized program and the budget they had he was a perfect hire.

Anderson should be better, and I'm guessing his salary is between $2-2.5 mm, maybe a little more. For that price, he'd better be better than a Cooley.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=359583][quote="MJDinkins" post=359580][quote="Jnaw17" post=359574]
I totally disagree with this. Fran and Jarvis were both better and by a long way, regardless of whether we agree with how they conducted themselves at times. Cooley is a good coach, but we give him way too much credit on this board. His teams perform their best when they’re overlooked and they can surprise you. I like him and hope he stays at PC, but let’s relax with the accolades a bit.[/quote]

Agree, Jnaw. I'm a Cooley fan myself, but feels he's overrated by several on this board. I think he's a solid coach, no doubt, and would certainly take him as our head coach if opportunity were to one day knock. But to say he's better than any coach we've had in 25 years and Anderson needs to be better than Cooley is a bit too much.

Anderson is already better than Cooley, if we simply go on what they've done in their coaching career. Anderson--minus his best player--also handled Cooley's team (in Providence) in last season's NIT.

It's easy to say who's better hindsight. But at the brief height of Fraschilla, and during Jarvis' first few seasons (definitely, his first two).... I'm not sure Cooley was better than Fraschilla, and certainly not better than Jarvis.

The NCAA Tournament can be a crapshoot. It's also a situation similar to boxing where styles makes fights. Particularly, when there's a quick turnaround between the 1st and 2nd round, Sweet 16 and Elite 8, and so on. But careers are also defined by what you do in the dance. Eventually, Cooley will need to find some success when he's on the "dance floor."[/quote]

Don't interpet my comments as over the top, but also remember that Cooley came from Fairfield, not Arkansas and Missouri, and Cooley took a bottom dweller in Providence and made them a very competitive team in conference. Guaranteed though, if he catches lightning in the bottle with the right recruits and got to the final four that a much bigger program would snatch him almost immediately should he want that. For that sized program and the budget they had he was a perfect hire.

Anderson should be better, and I'm guessing his salary is between $2-2.5 mm, maybe a little more. For that price, he'd better be better than a Cooley.[/quote]

Truthfully, I don't even remember what you said on this thread.
 
Anderson should be better, and I'm guessing his salary is between $2-2.5 mm, maybe a little more. For that price, he'd better be better than a Cooley.[/quote]

Actually per USA Today survey of college coaches for 2019 Cooley was paid $2.605M and CMA was paid $2..55M (CMA also had a buyout of $3M, which I assume Arkansas probably had to pay when they fired him). Cooley's salary was before he was resigned when Michigan came a calling, so it logical to believe he received a significant raise for this year. Don't know what we are paying CMA but could be less than Cooley despite having a higher cost of living (around 30%). PS--Wright got $3.9M tops of non state schools.
 
The Anderson- Cooley comparison doesn't do either coach justice. The article focuses on rebuilding and should just point to mismanagement as the biggest factor instead of discussing useless comparisons of coaches.
Why should coach Anderson be better than Cooley while earning less salary? Was Mullin in any stretch of the imagination better than Lavin while earning the same salary as Lavin with zero experience??
If one had to chart the progress of the program from Jarvis to Mullin the highs would Jarvis and Lavin with the lows being Roberst and Mullin with Mullin stagnating any progress over 4 years. Neither Roberts nor Mullin had any business being in any conversation about a head coaching job.
If Seton Hall in the shithole backwoods of South Orange and Xavier in Cincinnati could build and maintain upper level Big East programs then us being picked last once again in the greatest city in America is attributed to extremely poor judgment on our part in selecting coaches. PERIOD.
The question isn't whether Anderson will be better than Cooley but whether he will better than Mullin and I bet my left nut that CMA at his worst will be a big upgrade.
 
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Interestingly enough I think we are closer than most think to being a decent program this season. CMA inherited 2 very good players in Heron and LJ, and with their improved conditioning and improved coaching, we should see two good versions. People expect us to suck, mainly because we lost Ponds. I agree we can’t replace
Him, but most times we relied on him too much to be the bail out and sole scorer to win games. What we need is two more guys stepping up and we need to replace Marvin Clark and Simon. Clark was a solid player and nice scorer for us but he wasn’t much in the way of a PF. Simon was a Swiss Army knife and did it all but wasn’t much of a shooter/scorer until he had to be.

We return 2 of our 5 starters. When Steere is eligible we will 100% be better at the center position than last year because we had no center last year. Steere is big, strong, athletic and skilled. No doubt CMA will have him playing well.

Replacing Simon is tough but not impossible because we are a lot deeper this year and can replace he and Clark with multiple guys. CMA is a defensive coach and I think guys like Champagnie, Caraher, Sears etc can help us offset that loss. We are quite a bit deeper.

We will likely focus a bit more on defense and rebounding. Rebounding can also be a bit of a game changer for us if we do a decent job by committee.

Replacing Ponds is impossible but we will do it with multiple players like Dunne, McGriff, Williams, Rutherford and different skills sets. We will play twice as many players as last year and still retain two of our best from last years five. I’m not convinced we will be that bad, and more so might be pretty good as we move along considering improvement in coaching, depth and other factors.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=359607]The Anderson- Cooley comparison doesn't do either coach justice. The article focuses on rebuilding and should just point to mismanagement as the biggest factor instead of discussing useless comparisons of coaches.
Why should coach Anderson be better than Cooley while earning less salary? Was Mullin in any stretch of the imagination better than Lavin while earning the same salary as Lavin with zero experience??
If one had to chart the progress of the program from Jarvis to Mullin the highs would Jarvis and Lavin with the lows being Roberst and Mullin with Mullin stagnating any progress over 4 years. Neither Roberts nor Mullin had any business being in any conversation about a head coaching job.
If Seton Hall in the shithole backwoods of South Orange and Xavier in Cincinnati could build and maintain upper level Big East programs then us being picked last once again in the greatest city in America is attributed to extremely poor judgment on our part in selecting coaches. PERIOD.
The question isn't whether Anderson will be better than Cooley but whether he will better than Mullin and I bet my left nut that CMA at his worst will be a big upgrade.[/quote]



Thanks for introducing a fresh new take on the Mullin and Robert's hires.
 
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[quote="BrooklynRed" post=359603]Anderson should be better, and I'm guessing his salary is between $2-2.5 mm, maybe a little more. For that price, he'd better be better than a Cooley.[/quote]

Actually per USA Today survey of college coaches for 2019 Cooley was paid $2.605M and CMA was paid $2..55M (CMA also had a buyout of $3M, which I assume Arkansas probably had to pay when they fired him). Cooley's salary was before he was resigned when Michigan came a calling, so it logical to believe he received a significant raise for this year. Don't know what we are paying CMA but could be less than Cooley despite having a higher cost of living (around 30%). PS--Wright got $3.9M tops of non state schools.[/quote]

After getting 5 ncaa bids in 8 years, and after Michigan went hard after Cooley, Providence extended Cooley for 10 years at what is believed to be in the 30-40 million range.
 
Cooley and CMA are up for debate, but it's certainly no debate that Cooley would have been our best coach in many years if he was here. Not saying I prefer Cooley over CMA or vice versa. I do like that CMA stresses defense which is nice because you go on winning streaks playing consistent D and that can take you deep into tourneys. You won't always have shots falling but you can always put max effort into D and that's mostly what it's based on. Look at LJ's defense last year. He wanted it badly and it showed. That being said, I hope we don't revert back to Lavin days of having decent defense but barely any offense. I'd like to see some balance. I also hope we work tirelessly on skills. One major pundit just got back from a Nova practice and he was raving about how much attention to detail Jay Wright has regarding skills.
 
Havent been on here since the hiring! That being said I predict we dance this year and shock some people! Heron will be first team all big east! Monster season for him
 
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