Staffing Change

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[quote="redken" post=290596][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=290591]I don’t know what would prevent SJU from hiring Rice now and making an announcement that he would be joining the team after the aau season ends. But, as Mark said,we are St. John’s.[/quote]
No doubt that after getting seriously burned for something like $1-million-plus by Slice's firing, I'm sure the university is going take all the time they can to painstakingly go over every sentence, word, and punctuation mark in any contract it offers to Rice to avoid a repeat.

As George W. Bush wisely put it once: "Fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled." again." :dry:[/quote]
Laughing out loud as a dinosaur would say.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=290595]Paultzman wrote: After end of July recruiting period, apparently Mullin heads home to Cali to return to NY in September. Not sure how that impacts Rice situation, but hope an agreement is evolving. We’ll see

Makes perfect sense that Chris should go home to spend August with his family after spending July on the road before coming to NYC in September to coach our team to the NCAAs this year. Mitch appears to be on the way out; let's see how things play out in the next month. I am more optimistic than I've been since year Lavin was hired and we had that super recruiting class. Hoping better days ahead![/quote]

Great work if you can get it!
Mitch and Mullin have averaged 4 full months off in California in the past 3 years of being full time highly paid coaches. Sorry for being negative after being mellow for a while but between the Slice salary and our HOF coaches salaries we may be getting the biggest screwing and lowest return on investment in St. John's basketball history. I get the impression that this may resolve itself by next Spring but if it doesn't Matt and hopefully Mike may be the only coaches working 24/7 in this program.
To think that 5 short years ago this board tarred and feathered Steve Lavin for missing two games when Cap Lavin died and he went home to California to comfort his mother and family.
Hoping for a radical improvement in staff commitment over the next 12 months.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=290600][quote="NCJohnnie" post=290595]Paultzman wrote: After end of July recruiting period, apparently Mullin heads home to Cali to return to NY in September. Not sure how that impacts Rice situation, but hope an agreement is evolving. We’ll see

Makes perfect sense that Chris should go home to spend August with his family after spending July on the road before coming to NYC in September to coach our team to the NCAAs this year. Mitch appears to be on the way out; let's see how things play out in the next month. I am more optimistic than I've been since year Lavin was hired and we had that super recruiting class. Hoping better days ahead![/quote]

Great work if you can get it!
Mitch and Mullin have averaged 4 full months off in California in the past 3 years of being full time highly paid coaches. Sorry for being negative after being mellow for a while but between the Slice salary and our HOF coaches salaries we may be getting the biggest screwing and lowest return on investment in St. John's basketball history. I get the impression that this may resolve itself by next Spring but if it doesn't Matt and hopefully Mike may be the only coaches working 24/7 in this program.
To think that 5 short years ago this board tarred and feathered Steve Lavin for missing two games when Cap Lavin died and he went home to California to comfort his mother and family.
Hoping for a radical improvement in staff commitment over the next 12 months.[/quote]

Hypocrisy and contradictions are the norm for a handful on here.

You should also be prepared to get "tarred and feathered" per your recent post.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=290603]

Hypocrisy and contradictions are the norm for a handful on here.

You should also be prepared to get "tarred and feathered" per your recent post.[/quote]

No need to add fuel there. We have had a pretty positive summer around here so far. Maybe I am getting old (well ok, I am old), but I have good vibes about the upcoming season, and beyond.

And while I agree there will be some who vehemently defend this staff no matter what, conversely, we have some who cannot wait to bury the staff either.
 
[quote="kranmars" post=290608][quote="MJDinkins" post=290603]

Hypocrisy and contradictions are the norm for a handful on here.

You should also be prepared to get "tarred and feathered" per your recent post.[/quote]

No need to add fuel there. We have had a pretty positive summer around here so far. Maybe I am getting old (well ok, I am old), but I have good vibes about the upcoming season, and beyond.

And while I agree there will be some who vehemently defend this staff no matter what, conversely, we have some who cannot wait to bury the staff either.[/quote]

Yep focus on the good vibes (there will always be "bad" ones).
Could very well be an unexpectedly surprising season ahead.
How nice that would be after decades of destruction.
Therefore...
Why not keep it simple and just enjoy.
all the best
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=290600][quote="NCJohnnie" post=290595]Paultzman wrote: After end of July recruiting period, apparently Mullin heads home to Cali to return to NY in September. Not sure how that impacts Rice situation, but hope an agreement is evolving. We’ll see

Makes perfect sense that Chris should go home to spend August with his family after spending July on the road before coming to NYC in September to coach our team to the NCAAs this year. Mitch appears to be on the way out; let's see how things play out in the next month. I am more optimistic than I've been since year Lavin was hired and we had that super recruiting class. Hoping better days ahead![/quote]

Great work if you can get it!
Mitch and Mullin have averaged 4 full months off in California in the past 3 years of being full time highly paid coaches. Sorry for being negative after being mellow for a while but between the Slice salary and our HOF coaches salaries we may be getting the biggest screwing and lowest return on investment in St. John's basketball history. I get the impression that this may resolve itself by next Spring but if it doesn't Matt and hopefully Mike may be the only coaches working 24/7 in this program.
To think that 5 short years ago this board tarred and feathered Steve Lavin for missing two games when Cap Lavin died and he went home to California to comfort his mother and family.
Hoping for a radical improvement in staff commitment over the next 12 months.[/quote]

If we don't get Rice then it's time to seriously question the staff's commitment to the program. If we really want to become relevant again it's an obvious hire and he will come relatively cheap since he wants another chance so badly. He'd have all the intrinsic motivation in the world to bust his behind for us. Having a figurehead coach like Mullin who isn't fully committed (fact not opinion) as other coaches would be only works if your other coaches are very dedicated and pick up the slack. So far Matt is doing more than his part trying to get us recruits, but we badly need a real assistant with real coaching experience and real recruiting ability. I have no specific knowledge on this but my speculation is that Matt A would leave in the very near future if Mullin doesn't get him major help and fast with the recruiting. You get the perception he's hanging on by a thread almost leaving a few times already and his Twitter posts strongly suggest that he's worn out from all the recruiting. Again, figurehead coaches can work, but Mullin has to realize that he needs help if we will be a consistent winner. The little faith I have left will be lost if no solid assistant is hired, Rice or anyone else.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=290610][quote="Class of 72" post=290600][quote="NCJohnnie" post=290595]Paultzman wrote: After end of July recruiting period, apparently Mullin heads home to Cali to return to NY in September. Not sure how that impacts Rice situation, but hope an agreement is evolving. We’ll see

Makes perfect sense that Chris should go home to spend August with his family after spending July on the road before coming to NYC in September to coach our team to the NCAAs this year. Mitch appears to be on the way out; let's see how things play out in the next month. I am more optimistic than I've been since year Lavin was hired and we had that super recruiting class. Hoping better days ahead![/quote]

Great work if you can get it!
Mitch and Mullin have averaged 4 full months off in California in the past 3 years of being full time highly paid coaches. Sorry for being negative after being mellow for a while but between the Slice salary and our HOF coaches salaries we may be getting the biggest screwing and lowest return on investment in St. John's basketball history. I get the impression that this may resolve itself by next Spring but if it doesn't Matt and hopefully Mike may be the only coaches working 24/7 in this program.
To think that 5 short years ago this board tarred and feathered Steve Lavin for missing two games when Cap Lavin died and he went home to California to comfort his mother and family.
Hoping for a radical improvement in staff commitment over the next 12 months.[/quote]

If we don't get Rice then it's time to seriously question the staff's commitment to the program. If we really want to become relevant again it's an obvious hire and he will come relatively cheap since he wants another chance so badly. He'd have all the intrinsic motivation in the world to bust his behind for us. Having a figurehead coach like Mullin who isn't fully committed (fact not opinion) as other coaches would be only works if your other coaches are very dedicated and pick up the slack. So far Matt is doing more than his part trying to get us recruits, but we badly need a real assistant with real coaching experience and real recruiting ability. I have no specific knowledge on this but my speculation is that Matt A would leave in the very near future if Mullin doesn't get him major help and fast with the recruiting. You get the perception he's hanging on by a thread almost leaving a few times already and his Twitter posts strongly suggest that he's worn out from all the recruiting. Again, figurehead coaches can work, but Mullin has to realize that he needs help if we will be a consistent winner. The little faith I have left will be lost if no solid assistant is hired, Rice or anyone else.[/quote] [attachment=287]6F7513A3-C18C-420E-9C01-A25C9776347C.gif[/attachment]
 
I have no objections or negatives toward the hiring of Mike Rice. As I have posted before, I have known him for a number of years and he is a fine coach and a better man, regardless of those who want to take snippets of tape taken out of context to judge a mans character. I have no doubt he would be an asset to the program. But the idea that the SJU program is hanging on a thread based on the hiring of Mike Rice is just laughably absurd.
 
Oh god the dead horse police are out again. How about everyone is only allowed to make one post about a topic then let the forum die out? Discussions ultimately revisit the same points at times, it's inevitable. There was some new material in there e.g. Matt A. may not stay if it doesn't pan out. If we can't discuss this stuff on a fan forum whose purpose is for this very material, then where can we? Sorry just annoyed at double-standards as we all revisit the same stuff consistently.
 
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Oh, this forum will never die, we have enough posters that have to repeat negative and descent, in nineteen different ways. It all gets NEGATIVE and MONOTONOUS to the posters that just want to come on to their board to see what is going on with the team and players and things related to our team. Maybe we could start a new topic labeled MOANING AND MOANERS, then when something has to be posted that has already been posted 20 times, they can go there and make their post, much like going to a toilet.
 
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unfortunately no matter how much we talk about it.(yes this thread has been going on for 31 pages) we will just have to wait and see.
 
Mitch is not holding his weight. He has gone to no recruiting events and is not working w players on campus. IMO he has to be replaced by Rice or another competent , hard working assistant. A staff change has to be made. I’m not saying Mitch should leave. But, if he stays , he shouldn’t be the associate head coach, I don’t think I am being negative. If here is a flaw , it has to be corrected. If it isn’t, fans will rightfully be disappointed. Bottom line is a winnng program makes more money, gets positive publicity for the school and gets fans in the seats. A losing program doesn’t. If you want a winning program, the staff has to be constructed correctly and you have to work hard and smart, If you take into consideration Mitches salary. His position does not make sense.
 
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[quote="frank61" post=290617]Oh, this forum will never die, we have enough posters that have to repeat negative and descent, in nineteen different ways. It all gets NEGATIVE and MONOTONOUS to the posters that just want to come on to their board to see what is going on with the team and players and things related to our team. Maybe we could start a new topic labeled MOANING AND MOANERS, then when something has to be posted that has already been posted 20 times can go there and make their post, much like going to a toilet.[/quote]

That’s funny Frank. Love it: The Moaning and Moaners Thread!
But you also nailed it.
I’d say all of us primarily care about the team, it’s present, the future, and hope it recaptures it’s great legacy.
Some are more sanguine about that hope than others—but all of us share it.
We should remember that all of it—even the nuclear ‘political’ chasm—is a ‘family’ squabble.
We Are St. John’s.
 
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[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=290619]Mitch is not holding his weight. He has gone to no recruiting events and is not working w players on campus. IMO he has to be replaced by Rice or another competent , hard working assistant. A staff change has to be made. I’m not saying Mitch should leave. But, if he stays , he shouldn’t be the associate head coach, I don’t think I am being negative. If here is a flaw , it has to be corrected. If it isn’t, fans will rightfully be disappointed. Bottom line is a winnng program makes more money, gets positive publicity for the school and gets fans in the seats. A losing program doesn’t. If you want a winning program, the staff has to be constructed correctly and you have to work hard and smart, If you take into consideration Mitches salary. His position does not make sense.[/quote]

Being negative implies that someone has a tendency to focus on the negative aspects even if the facts are objectively positive. I don't see that occurring with anyone. All I see is a massive void that fans want filled at AC. Imagine saying your mother is being "negative" complaining that you don't do your homework. It's not negativity, it's an expectation of standards. When the standards are not being met, people rightly criticize. Just as a parent has given up the second they abandon their standards for their child's academics/etc., a fanbase has given up once they have no standards anymore.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=290592][quote="AlBovino" post=290520]Do you want to bet? Mullin will be here longer than you.[/quote]

Not sure if Tom is a 50-something millionaire, but it's far more likely that a 50-something millionaire would continue as a fan far longer than a 50-something millionaire would continue as a coach, especially as coach of a program that he in all honesty didn't have much to do with in the intervening 30 years.[/quote]

Chris Mullin made $40 million playing 16 NBA seasonis. Coach K makes 8 million per year now. In 5 seasons, Coach K makes more than Mullin made his entire playing career. The desire to keep working or being successful doesn't end with monetary success. If so, Cal, Pitino, K, Boeheim, and a bunch others would have quit long ago.
 
[quote="redstorm89" post=290618]unfortunately no matter how much we talk about it.(yes this thread has been going on for 31 pages) we will just have to wait and see.[/quote]

Correct! Nothing we say will influence Mullin's decision. Although this thread is 30+ pages of wishing and hoping for a staff improvement and radical adjustment given the Slice debacle, the actual subject dates back two years to Mitch Richmond's "promotion". That was debacle #2 on Mullin's part. Now we have an assistant that has been mostly absent from the program since April but cashing his paycheck.
You don't sense this level of fan frustration with a coaching staff composition at Villanova, Georgetown, Xavier, Butler, Creighton or Providence. I am caulking it up to our staff's growing pains and inexperience but the experience excuse is getting old.
To add insult to injury we again have no athletic director and decisions are still bring funneled through the incompetent Oliva.
If a new assistant is not hired and Mitch Richmond strolls through the Taffner doors in September he should be investigated for theft of service!
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=290616]Oh god the dead horse police are out again. [/quote]

We have too many law enforcement agencies. Maybe streamline them. Merge the DHPD (Dead Horse Police Dept) the NPPD (No Politics Police Dept), SRPD (Staff Rules Police Dept), and the SSPD (Staff Sucks Police Dept).

It will save Paul a lot of money by cutting the cost of redundancy.
 
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This question is for anybody in the know. Is it true about the rumor that Joe is spreading saying that Matt a may leave?
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=290627][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=290619]Mitch is not holding his weight. He has gone to no recruiting events and is not working w players on campus. IMO he has to be replaced by Rice or another competent , hard working assistant. A staff change has to be made. I’m not saying Mitch should leave. But, if he stays , he shouldn’t be the associate head coach, I don’t think I am being negative. If here is a flaw , it has to be corrected. If it isn’t, fans will rightfully be disappointed. Bottom line is a winnng program makes more money, gets positive publicity for the school and gets fans in the seats. A losing program doesn’t. If you want a winning program, the staff has to be constructed correctly and you have to work hard and smart, If you take into consideration Mitches salary. His position does not make sense.[/quote]

Being negative implies that someone has a tendency to focus on the negative aspects even if the facts are objectively positive. I don't see that occurring with anyone. All I see is a massive void that fans want filled at AC. Imagine saying your mother is being "negative" complaining that you don't do your homework. It's not negativity, it's an expectation of standards. When the standards are not being met, people rightly criticize. Just as a parent has given up the second they abandon their standards for their child's academics/etc., a fanbase has given up once they have no standards anymore.[/quote]

I see it as non stop negativity. Yes, we all want to win, Yes, we haven't won much in our marquee sport over a 25 year span. St John's isn't the Wilpons and the Mets, where spending is forwned upon in the name of profits. SJU was a school founded on providing lower cost education to masses of children of Catholic immigrants. Limited endowments, low tuition, low paid faculty and administration. They've tried to win at basketball and gradually increased salaries to where they pay their HC in the $2 million rnage which ranks among the highest paid. Schools with much larger endowments - BC and Georgetown - have found that having deep pockets doesn't easily translate to wins,

We have a league where every school has one revenue producing sport - basketball. Of course there will be breakout coaches - Mack at Xavier, Stevens at Butler, Wright at Nova. Most will move on at the first opportunity of super money (Mack, Stevens). Some are solid coaches who are loyal and will remain (McDermott at Creighton, Providence's Cooley).

HArd work doesn't guarantee success, money doesn't guarantee success. But the lack of success doesn't mean you aren't working hard, or you aren't spending enough. That's what competition is all about. SJU has tried stuff - the loyal promoted assistant FAILED and fired, apparently rock solid 1st black coach, Jarvis - FAILED and fired., The local superb recruiter FAILED and Fired, the scucessful UCLA coach with warts - FAILED and fired. Now, the hometown hero who without speed, vertical leap, or height made the HOF, who happens also to be a rock solid guy.

You want to be negative because we didn't win enough, didn't get the right players, didn't hire the right coach - be my guest.

Likely though, if someone rated your own personal record of success or failure with the same scrutiny, you would scream bloody murder. Some of us know, no most of us, no, nearly all of us know that being a fan, a true fan, means to endure all the pain of not winning, not being successful, and root like hell for that special player, game or season. Many of us measure success in small spoonfuls - like beating Duke or Nova, as formative to getting on the right path. Others point to a losing record (despite losing our 2nd best player) as indicative of disgusting, stomach churning failiure.

It's all about perspective. You're either driving an uber because it puts you over the top of break even in bills, or because you are a misrable failure at nearly 30 that can't make it on one job. With the latter view, I was a miserable failure until my 3rd kid was 10 years old and I could shed the every saturday 2nd job , that started as 2 nights, weekends and holidays till I could give it up. I never felt like a failure and neither should you. And as a fan, I don't think this edition of SJU basketball is a failure either. It's just a process, a long road to success, led by a few tough guys (Chris, Greg, and Matt) who I don't believe are quitters or bitchers. Right now its good enough for me.

Whether its good enough for you, that's your choice. But being negative is no red badge of courage either, and unless you are happy miserable, having a more positive outlook can't hurt.
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=290631]This question is for anybody in the know. Is it true about the rumor that Joe is spreading saying that Matt a may leave?[/quote]

He said;
“I have no specific knowledge on this but my speculation is that Matt A would leave in the very near future if Mullin doesn't get him major help and fast with the recruiting”

Joe 3 & speculation a funny combo. :)
 
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