St. John's University Forbe's rated #15

[MCNPA]

Tuition at Villanova's College of Nursing is $40K a year. That ain't cheap.

I would think it must be the same (or higher) at BC and G'Town. 

 

My wife at CMC paid 7k per year for her RN. Not bachelors though, but can get it done really cheap for the bachelors. Stony brook offers it online for only a few grand. 

People just don't shop around. I love SJU, but in this day and age, if I want to become a P.A., I can just go to York College a fee miles away for SJU and I can get a P.A. Degree for only a few grand. Dirt cheap for a job paying six figures. It's extremely competitive to get in of course, but there is a monstrous discrepancy in cost of programs.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

If price is your decision driver, York is without a doubt the winner.

Noticed on U.S. News ranking for P.A. Programs, St. John's is ranked # 70 and York # 94, for what its worth.

Duke was # 1.

I guess it all comes down to if you think your money is well spent. Easy (or easier) to justify going to Duke, no matter the cost (within reason)

Arguably, many kids at St. John's would be better served to go to a CUNY or a community college, especially if they don't have the $$ and are not well prepared for college. If they did, our retention rate would improve greatly, IMO.

Still think a first class College of Nursing would dovetail nicely within the College of Pharmacy and Allied Health Professions.


   

 

[MCNPA]

If price is your decision driver, York is without a doubt the winner.

Noticed on U.S. News ranking for P.A. Programs, St. John's is ranked # 70 and York # 94, for what its worth.


 

 

I'll tell you the real world truth of it. Doesn't matter which program you graduated from. #1 or #200. Doesn't make an iota of a difference in this field. People on my job from all kind of programs like. St. Johns, York, Touro, Duke, Cornell. We are all colleagues and get paid the same. No advantage at all from going to a top program. 

 

[beast of the east]

Tuition at Villanova's College of Nursing is $40K a year. That ain't cheap.

I would think it must be the same (or higher) at BC and G'Town. 

 

You are dead on about Gtown and Nova - both have top flight nursing programs. Not sure if either have graduate school programs in nursing. There are dozens of career paths with a degree in nursing. Are you aware that a DON or CNO at a major hospital can earn $500K or more per year?

 

[beast of the east]

If price is your decision driver, York is without a doubt the winner.

Noticed on U.S. News ranking for P.A. Programs, St. John's is ranked # 70 and York # 94, for what its worth.


 

 

I'll tell you the real world truth of it. Doesn't matter which program you graduated from. #1 or #200. Doesn't make an iota of a difference in this field. People on my job from all kind of programs like. St. Johns, York, Touro, Duke, Cornell. We are all colleagues and get paid the same. No advantage at all from going to a top program. 

 

While I would agree while a top licensed clinician is a top clinician regardless of where he/she graduated from, any prospective student should compare the pass rate on state and national licensure exams, as well as the ranked qulaity of a program. Students coming out of top programs will likely be hired first, especially when jobs are tight. Cyclically there have been times over the past 25 years where there have been gluts of clinical professions, with schools graduating more students than avaiable jobs at some points. Medical professions tend to become very popular in down economies. In pharmacy for example, when economies are booming, a six year degree AND state licensure come with a steep pricetag to max out at $100K or so. In a down economy, these jobs look golden and schools are flooded with applications, especially since the starting salary is close to the max.

 

[fuchsia]

 Worked in health care HR for > forty years. School of applied health science with vocational and licensure focus has some appeal but employers are constantly trying to gut the employment market for nurses, changing (lowering) quals and importing workers. The one profession that has been in shortage through all my time in the field is occupational therapy, and with baby boomers aging that demand should only grow, the longer we can keep people independent and out of care institutions, the better for them and the lower the cost. OT is a critical need and a bachelors level certification.

 

[beast of the east]

 Worked in health care HR for > forty years. School of applied health science with vocational and licensure focus has some appeal but employers are constantly trying to gut the employment market for nurses, changing (lowering) quals and importing workers. The one profession that has been in shortage through all my time in the field is occupational therapy, and with baby boomers aging that demand should only grow, the longer we can keep people independent and out of care institutions, the better for them and the lower the cost. OT is a critical need and a bachelors level certification.

 

I'm curious what sector you worked in. Insofar as foreign workers, some privately run nursing homes constantly try to important lower paid workers from places such as the philipines. If you remember a few years ago, when there was a nursing glut, North Shore LIJ fired all of their nurses so they could rehire them at a lower salary. How's that for creating a happy, productive, work force. Their CEO gloated about it in a feature article - idiot.

 

[salty dog]

Not sure if there are salary stats of graduates pre 1985 and post, or in some defined time period.

In my era at SJU, there were a large number of extremely bright kids who today would have gone elsewhere, and whose children do go elsewhere to better acedemic schools. A large number of my classmates went on to law school, some have had great success as entrpreneurs, and others on wall street.

I'm not denigrating more recent graduates from SJU, but in the 60s, 70s, 80s, if you went to a Cahtolic Hs in brooklyn, queens, or LI, there was a great chance you'd end up at SJU no matter how smart you were. Today, the demographics of brooklyn and queens have changed, and the best and brightest from LI choose SJU less frequently.  

 

I would say that is a pretty fair assessment.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

If only the university had another 50 or so acres that would allow them to build more on campus housing.

No doubt that those that reside on campus have the highest academic qualifications (as a generalization) as defined by SAT scores and high school GPA's.

Would think a greater number of non-NYC would apply and actually enroll at St. John's if they had a place to stay on campus.

A year or so ago, only 85 students came to St. John's from the great state of California. Today it is over twice that total. Granted it's a relatively small number, but it's a start and may be considerably higher if we had more space.

Without dorms think of what the university and the student body would look like today. Arguably the greatest single strategic initiative ever implemented by the university.

 

[beast of the east]

If only the university had another 50 or so acres that would allow them to build more on campus housing.

No doubt that those that reside on campus have the highest academic qualifications (as a generalization) as defined by SAT scores and high school GPA's.

Would think a greater number of non-NYC would apply and actually enroll at St. John's if they had a place to stay on campus.

A year or so ago, only 85 students came to St. John's from the great state of California. Today it is over twice that total. Granted it's a relatively small number, but it's a start and may be considerably higher if we had more space.

Without dorms think of what the university and the student body would look like today. Arguably the greatest single strategic initiative ever implemented by the university.

JSJ, do you know for a fact that those living in dorms are more academically qualified? Legit question - I do know in the first few years of dorms, some students I know complained that they didn't even feel safe aorund the dorms - I think there was a shooting or something like that. Perhaps that's turned aorund.

Joe Cahill wanted no part of dorms, though we all thought it would be great. All he could think of was the headaches, guys and girls cohabitating, etc, etc, etc.  

I think that the school has to decide what they want to be - a solid Catholic school with at least 75 Catholic students, a strong academic institution with stiffer entrance requirements, or a middler school that turns a profit. I think they opt for #3.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

You can take it to the bank. Resident students have higher SAT scores and high school GPA's than non-residents. It's a FACT. It is also a fact that all students at the the Queens campus have higher SAT's and GPA's than those at S.I.

Residents have been a meaningful factor in average SAT scores rising over the last few years. 

If we had more dorms it is likely that more out of state students would take a serious look if they knew that they could live on campus for at least their first 2 years at St. John's.

Realize this is "pie in the sky" but can you imagine if we had another 50 or even 25 acres to build more residences.

If the university was able to accommodate more out of state students, I would think you would see a fairly big increase (define that as you will) in SAT scores since you would arguably be attracting a better pool of academically prepared students on the margin.

In addition, it would lessen our dependency on NYC (where many city high school students, particularly in public schools, are simply not prepared for college), in particular.

Think of how many potential applicants from out of state the university will field once Coach Lavin turns the basketball around. Heck, if we ever get to a Final 4 (which I think we will) can you imagine how many kids from across the country will want to, at the very least, seriously consider attending St. John's.

Would be great if we had a place to put them all.

Perhaps if we were able to build more facilities for those out of state the university would be able to attract an even more competitive student body. It is my understanding that only UCLA receives more apps than we do, nationally, although it's an entirely different set of applicants when it comes to high school achievement.

The reality, however, is that we can't create 25 or 50 acres out of thin air. If only.....

Would agree with you that NYC (Catholic and Public) are not producing students who are equipped with the same academic skill sets as they may have been a generation or two ago.

As far as I am aware, there is no reason for anyone to be concerned about serious crime on campus. I don't believe we have any more issues than any other school. 

 

[Class of 72]

You can take it to the bank. Resident students have higher SAT scores and high school GPA's than non-residents. It's a FACT. It is also a fact that all students at the the Queens campus have higher SAT's and GPA's than those at S.I.

Residents have been a meaningful factor in average SAT scores rising over the last few years. 

If we had more dorms it is likely that more out of state students would take a serious look if they knew that they could live on campus for at least their first 2 years at St. John's.

Realize this is "pie in the sky" but can you imagine if we had another 50 or even 25 acres to build more residences.

If the university was able to accommodate more out of state students, I would think you would see a fairly big increase (define that as you will) in SAT scores since you would arguably be attracting a better pool of academically prepared students on the margin.

In addition, it would lessen our dependency on NYC (where many city high school students, particularly in public schools, are simply not prepared for college), in particular.

Think of how many potential applicants from out of state the university will field once Coach Lavin turns the basketball around. Heck, if we ever get to a Final 4 (which I think we will) can you imagine how many kids from across the country will want to, at the very least, seriously consider attending St. John's.

Would be great if we had a place to put them all.

Perhaps if we were able to build more facilities for those out of state the university would be able to attract an even more competitive student body. It is my understanding that only UCLA receives more apps than we do, nationally, although it's an entirely different set of applicants when it comes to high school achievement.

The reality, however, is that we can't create 25 or 50 acres out of thin air. If only.....

Would agree with you that NYC (Catholic and Public) are not producing students who are equipped with the same academic skill sets as they may have been a generation or two ago.

As far as I am aware, there is no reason for anyone to be concerned about serious crime on campus. I don't believe we have any more issues than any other school. 

 

Very good points!
As you know the Henley Road dorm was very controversial with the community but it added 400 beds and is walking distance to the campus but it is still off campus and many older students actually like the idea of living off campus.
As for more space for dorms, I have always felt the ROTC space should have been moved to possible leased space at Creedmore or even further away. Their space could add another 800 beds and would make the residence village complete.

 

[MCNPA]

 Agree. ROTC should be moved. It is taking up valuable space. I think it's a matter of time.

 

[beast of the east]

You can take it to the bank. Resident students have higher SAT scores and high school GPA's than non-residents. It's a FACT. It is also a fact that all students at the the Queens campus have higher SAT's and GPA's than those at S.I.

Residents have been a meaningful factor in average SAT scores rising over the last few years. 

If we had more dorms it is likely that more out of state students would take a serious look if they knew that they could live on campus for at least their first 2 years at St. John's.

Realize this is "pie in the sky" but can you imagine if we had another 50 or even 25 acres to build more residences.

If the university was able to accommodate more out of state students, I would think you would see a fairly big increase (define that as you will) in SAT scores since you would arguably be attracting a better pool of academically prepared students on the margin.

In addition, it would lessen our dependency on NYC (where many city high school students, particularly in public schools, are simply not prepared for college), in particular.

Think of how many potential applicants from out of state the university will field once Coach Lavin turns the basketball around. Heck, if we ever get to a Final 4 (which I think we will) can you imagine how many kids from across the country will want to, at the very least, seriously consider attending St. John's.

Would be great if we had a place to put them all.

Perhaps if we were able to build more facilities for those out of state the university would be able to attract an even more competitive student body. It is my understanding that only UCLA receives more apps than we do, nationally, although it's an entirely different set of applicants when it comes to high school achievement.

The reality, however, is that we can't create 25 or 50 acres out of thin air. If only.....

Would agree with you that NYC (Catholic and Public) are not producing students who are equipped with the same academic skill sets as they may have been a generation or two ago.

As far as I am aware, there is no reason for anyone to be concerned about serious crime on campus. I don't believe we have any more issues than any other school. 

 

Thanks. All good comments. Why can't they build a high rise dorm, 15-20 stories? North Shore towers is pretty high so shouldnt be a zoning thing.

I think the school might almost be better served to have some sort of dress code - I know SJU abandoned one in the late 60s. I've been on campus in late evenings, and the way some students dress and speak made me wonder if they were college students, or in a street gang. I can't imagine that they come out of school magically transformed.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

If only the university had another 50 or so acres that would allow them to build more on campus housing.

No doubt that those that reside on campus have the highest academic qualifications (as a generalization) as defined by SAT scores and high school GPA's.

Would think a greater number of non-NYC would apply and actually enroll at St. John's if they had a place to stay on campus.

A year or so ago, only 85 students came to St. John's from the great state of California. Today it is over twice that total. Granted it's a relatively small number, but it's a start and may be considerably higher if we had more space.

Without dorms think of what the university and the student body would look like today. Arguably the greatest single strategic initiative ever implemented by the university.

JSJ, do you know for a fact that those living in dorms are more academically qualified? Legit question - I do know in the first few years of dorms, some students I know complained that they didn't even feel safe aorund the dorms - I think there was a shooting or something like that. Perhaps that's turned aorund.

Joe Cahill wanted no part of dorms, though we all thought it would be great. All he could think of was the headaches, guys and girls cohabitating, etc, etc, etc.  

I think that the school has to decide what they want to be - a solid Catholic school with at least 75 Catholic students, a strong academic institution with stiffer entrance requirements, or a middler school that turns a profit. I think they opt for #3.

 

Don't think we will ever see St. John's with a student population that is 75% Catholic ever again. Think most Catholic schools (G'Town is a good example) have sen a decline in the percentage of students who identify themselves as Catholic.

That said, St. John's is reaching out to graduates of Catholic high schools with a new national scholarship program.
http://www.stjohns.edu/about/news/items/pr_111201_CSS.news_item@digest.stjohns.edu%2Fabout_us%2Fpr_111201_CSS.xml

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

You can take it to the bank. Resident students have higher SAT scores and high school GPA's than non-residents. It's a FACT. It is also a fact that all students at the the Queens campus have higher SAT's and GPA's than those at S.I.

Residents have been a meaningful factor in average SAT scores rising over the last few years. 

If we had more dorms it is likely that more out of state students would take a serious look if they knew that they could live on campus for at least their first 2 years at St. John's.

Realize this is "pie in the sky" but can you imagine if we had another 50 or even 25 acres to build more residences.

If the university was able to accommodate more out of state students, I would think you would see a fairly big increase (define that as you will) in SAT scores since you would arguably be attracting a better pool of academically prepared students on the margin.

In addition, it would lessen our dependency on NYC (where many city high school students, particularly in public schools, are simply not prepared for college), in particular.

Think of how many potential applicants from out of state the university will field once Coach Lavin turns the basketball around. Heck, if we ever get to a Final 4 (which I think we will) can you imagine how many kids from across the country will want to, at the very least, seriously consider attending St. John's.

Would be great if we had a place to put them all.

Perhaps if we were able to build more facilities for those out of state the university would be able to attract an even more competitive student body. It is my understanding that only UCLA receives more apps than we do, nationally, although it's an entirely different set of applicants when it comes to high school achievement.

The reality, however, is that we can't create 25 or 50 acres out of thin air. If only.....

Would agree with you that NYC (Catholic and Public) are not producing students who are equipped with the same academic skill sets as they may have been a generation or two ago.

As far as I am aware, there is no reason for anyone to be concerned about serious crime on campus. I don't believe we have any more issues than any other school. 

 

Thanks. All good comments. Why can't they build a high rise dorm, 15-20 stories? North Shore towers is pretty high so shouldnt be a zoning thing.

I think the school might almost be better served to have some sort of dress code - I know SJU abandoned one in the late 60s. I've been on campus in late evenings, and the way some students dress and speak made me wonder if they were college students, or in a street gang. I can't imagine that they come out of school magically transformed.

 

For better or worse, the school is going to reflect the culture and style of its students. Kids from the inner city are not going to dress or talk like kids from Garden City or Short Hills.

Doesn't mean they are "bad" kids (and I'm not implying that you are by any stretch). I'm sure a graduate of the 1940's or 1950's wasn't too thrilled with the Disco look many St. John's students sported in the 1970's.

I'm sure going from Wally Cleaver to Tony Monero (spelling ??) didn't go over well with a lot of older grads back then.

That said, the undergrads who received awards for being Big East Scholars last Saturday at halftime of the Nova game all represented St. John's very, very well. Heck, one may have thought they even went to Villanova (LOL) !

To be honest, I feel the same way you do when I do get to campus.

However, I leave wondering if the problem is with them or me. I really don't care how a kid dresses (at least within reason), but I do care if they are respectful (i.e. I don't need to hear certain words over and over again, least it defines a person (IMO) as being a functional illiterate) and operate within the norms of society.

I think most students at St. John's do.

Unfortunately it's the sliver of those who do not who are the ones that we remember and extrapolate their behavior to the rest of the student body. That's not exactly fair.

And for the kids whose behavior we are not big fans of, let's hope that their experience at St. John's will help to soften their rough edges. Let's be fair, a lot of these kids had a much, much tougher time growing up then we did.

No doubt St. John's is going to provide them with opportunities they never had before and I would like to think most will have the sense enough to take advantage of those opportunities and refine their social skills.

A real world exists outside of the St. John's campus and one may like it or not but in this hyper competitive job market, employers expect one to act and dress a certain way.

Most kids realize this and dial it down for the real world.

Who knows, students today are likely to be just like us complaining about the way certain kids act and dress 30 yrs. from now.

 

[beast of the east]

You can take it to the bank. Resident students have higher SAT scores and high school GPA's than non-residents. It's a FACT. It is also a fact that all students at the the Queens campus have higher SAT's and GPA's than those at S.I.

Residents have been a meaningful factor in average SAT scores rising over the last few years. 

If we had more dorms it is likely that more out of state students would take a serious look if they knew that they could live on campus for at least their first 2 years at St. John's.

Realize this is "pie in the sky" but can you imagine if we had another 50 or even 25 acres to build more residences.

If the university was able to accommodate more out of state students, I would think you would see a fairly big increase (define that as you will) in SAT scores since you would arguably be attracting a better pool of academically prepared students on the margin.

In addition, it would lessen our dependency on NYC (where many city high school students, particularly in public schools, are simply not prepared for college), in particular.

Think of how many potential applicants from out of state the university will field once Coach Lavin turns the basketball around. Heck, if we ever get to a Final 4 (which I think we will) can you imagine how many kids from across the country will want to, at the very least, seriously consider attending St. John's.

Would be great if we had a place to put them all.

Perhaps if we were able to build more facilities for those out of state the university would be able to attract an even more competitive student body. It is my understanding that only UCLA receives more apps than we do, nationally, although it's an entirely different set of applicants when it comes to high school achievement.

The reality, however, is that we can't create 25 or 50 acres out of thin air. If only.....

Would agree with you that NYC (Catholic and Public) are not producing students who are equipped with the same academic skill sets as they may have been a generation or two ago.

As far as I am aware, there is no reason for anyone to be concerned about serious crime on campus. I don't believe we have any more issues than any other school. 

 

Thanks. All good comments. Why can't they build a high rise dorm, 15-20 stories? North Shore towers is pretty high so shouldnt be a zoning thing.

I think the school might almost be better served to have some sort of dress code - I know SJU abandoned one in the late 60s. I've been on campus in late evenings, and the way some students dress and speak made me wonder if they were college students, or in a street gang. I can't imagine that they come out of school magically transformed.

 

For better or worse, the school is going to reflect the culture and style of its students. Kids from the inner city are not going to dress or talk like kids from Garden City or Short Hills.

Doesn't mean they are "bad" kids (and I'm not implying that you are by any stretch). I'm sure a graduate of the 1940's or 1950's wasn't too thrilled with the Disco look many St. John's students sported in the 1970's.

I'm sure going from Wally Cleaver to Tony Monero (spelling ??) didn't go over well with a lot of older grads back then.

That said, the undergrads who received awards for being Big East Scholars last Saturday at halftime of the Nova game all represented St. John's very, very well. Heck, one may have thought they even went to Villanova (LOL) !

To be honest, I feel the same way you do when I do get to campus.

However, I leave wondering if the problem is with them or me. I really don't care how a kid dresses (at least within reason), but I do care if they are respectful (i.e. I don't need to hear certain words over and over again, least it defines a person (IMO) as being a functional illiterate) and operate within the norms of society.

I think most students at St. John's do.

Unfortunately it's the sliver of those who do not who are the ones that we remember and extrapolate their behavior to the rest of the student body. That's not exactly fair.

And for the kids whose behavior we are not big fans of, let's hope that their experience at St. John's will help to soften their rough edges. Let's be fair, a lot of these kids had a much, much tougher time growing up then we did.

No doubt St. John's is going to provide them with opportunities they never had before and I would like to think most will have the sense enough to take advantage of those opportunities and refine their social skills.

A real world exists outside of the St. John's campus and one may like it or not but in this hyper competitive job market, employers expect one to act and dress a certain way.

Most kids realize this and dial it down for the real world.

Who knows, students today are likely to be just like us complaining about the way certain kids act and dress 30 yrs. from now.

 

Your comments are all very fair, and I agree with them almost all the way. However, once a get gets the opportunity to attend a private college, it would be well advised for him to dress, act, and speak like a college student about to enter a very competitive business world. I interview plenty of young graduates. Some have larned how to dress and speak well, and carry themselves impressively. Some show no evidence of the social maturation that college should produce. Preparation for you first job interview begins day 1 of your undergraduate experience, and for some, earlier. The more a city kid begins to assimilate, and leave some of his neighborhood ties behind, the better off he will be.

I sell on a national level, and even today, I have to prep myself mentally to pronounce the end of words fully, and try to suppress our inevitable NY accents. No less than Donald Trump was ridiculed by comedians when he declared for President because of the NY accent that I don't think is that bad. I think that city kids from poorer areas already have long odds against them, and they compound it if they don't begin to dress, speak, and act like college students.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Your points are well taken.

Perhaps St. John's would serve their students well by having accomplished grads speak to their student body about the real world  and what will be expected of them upon graduation. 


Maybe a greater effort to enlist alumni to mentor students needs to be entertained.

 

[beast of the east]

Your points are well taken.

Perhaps St. John's would serve their students well by having accomplished grads speak to their student body about the real world  and what will be expected of them upon graduation.

 

I agree - great suggestion. Most kids today don't know to purchase a conservative business suit for an interview and make sure he has at least one good, pressed white shirt and tie. It may be old school, but the kids that follow that and actually read a booklet about interviewing tend to do very well.

FYI re: your Tony Manero comment. I went to SJU in that era, and we nicknamed a frat brother Tony Manero. His uncle - Mario Cuomo - and I believe the guy is an extremely successful developer today. I wonder if he still dresses the same. 

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

 Agree. ROTC should be moved. It is taking up valuable space. I think it's a matter of time.

 

Realize the chances of this happening are about zero, at best, but is there any compelling reason why the law school MUST be on the Queens campus ??

Fordham's Law School is not located at the main campus at Rose Hill but at Lincoln Center, Georgetown Law is not located on the G'Town campus but downtown by Union Station.

That would certainly free up a good amount of space.