St. John's Nearing Powerhouse Recruiting Class

Every 5 and even 4 star players are using college as a stepping stone to the NBA. People would kill Coach Lavin if he only landed 3 Star players. That was our prior coaches plan and it did not sit well with people.

Can you name a high major program that has achieved sustained success with 3 star players?

.
One other observation. It seems like we're always on kids who are looking to use us as a stepping stone to the next level(NBA, Europe, D league). Moe, Jakarr, Sanchez, Jordan, etc. And now possibly Diallo and the Italian and Greek kids. Maybe even LoVett, And it seems as though our staff has been has been using "immediate and abundant PT" as its biggest selling tool. That's all good and well, and college teams often supplement their rosters with kids like that. But filling a roster with kids like that, while impressive on paper, is not going to provide continuity to the program nor result in sustained success on the court IMO. Which once again brings me back to the assertion by me and others that the way to build and sustain a program is not with these 1 and done or 2 and done kind of kids, although we'll certainly take them. Its with the solid 3 star kids, many of whom can be found right here in our backyard and elsewhere.

PS I would ask the usual suspects to please read my post all the way through before accusing me of not wanting us to recruit 5 star and European kids, because that's not at all what I'm saying.
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In spite of the fact that you either didn't read my post all the way through or didn't comprehend it, you get a pass because this is your first post. So here goes: Lavin's most successful team here to date has been with 3 star kids.He has had no success, using the NCAA tourny as the bar,. with 4/5 star kids and foreigners. How do you explain that away? We're not Kentucky and he's not Cal. That formula works for a few elite schools but not for the masses and,IMO, it won't work here. There are far far more 3 star kids floating around then 5 star kids. Sustained success will not come with the staff focusing on one and done and two and done kids.
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No need to be condescending.
Yes Lavin got us to the NCAA in his 1st year mostly 3 star players but not sure I would call Hardy and Brownlee 3 star players. They were Juco All Ameicans that were not used properly in their 1st year because Norm showed to much loyalty to the 3 star kids he recruited.

If you used 4 star recruits I might agree with you but we are not going to have Sustained Success we 3 star recruits.
We are going to agree to disagree.
 
Bottom line is we need a good mix of several 3 star/4 year players with a 4/5 star player or two. It isn't rocket science and it seems to me Coach is trying to do this with the 2015 class.

We should be excited about the strides this staff has made in the last few months. All I read here all summer was how we have ZERO recruits coming in here with this class. That was obviously not true. Coach was obviously working hard.

Unless you are in Coach's office weekly, you just don't know the full story on what's going on with recruiting.
 
I also think Lavin tries to hit home runs w recruiting as opposed to singles and doubles. Although everyone wants a McdAa on their team, the problem is we are not Kentucky and when they leave after a year, we have to re recruit the position. I have no problem w the academic risks occasionally, but definitely need a contingency plan. Should have had a solid 3 star big recruited in the 14 class, because it was imperative we have a competent backup. That said, I hope Lavin is able to put together a nice recruiting class. But we should have more pieces in place because if CO and Sheed leave and Lavin can't get an elite recruiting class, we are toast next year.
 
I know he is transferring due to some issues with the coach at Memphis, but would we have interest in former recruit Kuran Iverson?
 
It's nice to see the leading college sports writer for the Post doing a positive piece on the city's college hoops team. It's been a while.

Let's hope Lavin lands these players.

Also, I don't see this as a repeat of filling an entire starting team plus it's bench as Lavin needed to do four years ago. Next season, there will be three or four kids from this team who will be playing minutes along with the new players.
 
It's nice to see the leading college sports writer for the Post doing a positive piece on the city's college hoops team. It's been a while.

Let's hope Lavin lands these players.

Also, I don't see this as a repeat of filling an entire starting team plus it's bench as Lavin needed to do four years ago. Next season, there will be three or four kids from this team who will be playing minutes along with the new players.
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The problem is ,other than our first 6 players, there are no other players that Lavin looks comfortable using as backups. Altogether he is forced to use them sparingly, none of them look like BE starters next year.
 
It's nice to see the leading college sports writer for the Post doing a positive piece on the city's college hoops team. It's been a while.

Let's hope Lavin lands these players.

Also, I don't see this as a repeat of filling an entire starting team plus it's bench as Lavin needed to do four years ago. Next season, there will be three or four kids from this team who will be playing minutes along with the new players.
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The problem is ,other than our first 6 players, there are no other players that Lavin looks comfortable using as backups. Altogether he is forced to use them sparingly, none of them look like BE starters next year.
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I see potential in Amar. I hope Coach continues to let him develop. Was nice to see him get minutes the other night and contribute.
 
H
It's nice to see the leading college sports writer for the Post doing a positive piece on the city's college hoops team. It's been a while.

Let's hope Lavin lands these players.

Also, I don't see this as a repeat of filling an entire starting team plus it's bench as Lavin needed to do four years ago. Next season, there will be three or four kids from this team who will be playing minutes along with the new players.
Click to expand...
The problem is ,other than our first 6 players, there are no other players that Lavin looks comfortable using as backups. Altogether he is forced to use them sparingly, none of them look like BE starters next year.
Click to expand...

I spoke to fellow poster JPM a few weeks ago about Adonis. John, who knows the game and assesses talent as well as anyone, noted again that he has high hopes for Adonis. The one obvious concern is whether he takes the big step & commits to getting into reasonable shape. If he does, we both believe he could be a very effective big in the BE with his skill set. That is a big if, but I hope someone will motivate him to pay the price. If he does, he and Amar will be solid players & really help us down the road. What a shame if he doesn't. Perhaps this summer, someone of influence will help him get it.
 
Of course, we're all concerned about fielding a brand new team next year. The debate is whether Lavin is only looking for five star one and dones. Last I looked, we have how many seniors on THIS team?

Harkless and Sampson left...but everyone else stayed. I'm sure that trend will continue.
 
Every 5 and even 4 star players are using college as a stepping stone to the NBA. People would kill Coach Lavin if he only landed 3 Star players. That was our prior coaches plan and it did not sit well with people.

Can you name a high major program that has achieved sustained success with 3 star players?

.
One other observation. It seems like we're always on kids who are looking to use us as a stepping stone to the next level(NBA, Europe, D league). Moe, Jakarr, Sanchez, Jordan, etc. And now possibly Diallo and the Italian and Greek kids. Maybe even LoVett, And it seems as though our staff has been has been using "immediate and abundant PT" as its biggest selling tool. That's all good and well, and college teams often supplement their rosters with kids like that. But filling a roster with kids like that, while impressive on paper, is not going to provide continuity to the program nor result in sustained success on the court IMO. Which once again brings me back to the assertion by me and others that the way to build and sustain a program is not with these 1 and done or 2 and done kind of kids, although we'll certainly take them. Its with the solid 3 star kids, many of whom can be found right here in our backyard and elsewhere.

PS I would ask the usual suspects to please read my post all the way through before accusing me of not wanting us to recruit 5 star and European kids, because that's not at all what I'm saying.
Click to expand...
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In spite of the fact that you either didn't read my post all the way through or didn't comprehend it, you get a pass because this is your first post. So here goes: Lavin's most successful team here to date has been with 3 star kids.He has had no success, using the NCAA tourny as the bar,. with 4/5 star kids and foreigners. How do you explain that away? We're not Kentucky and he's not Cal. That formula works for a few elite schools but not for the masses and,IMO, it won't work here. There are far far more 3 star kids floating around then 5 star kids. Sustained success will not come with the staff focusing on one and done and two and done kids.
Click to expand...

No need to be condescending.
Yes Lavin got us to the NCAA in his 1st year mostly 3 star players but not sure I would call Hardy and Brownlee 3 star players. They were Juco All Ameicans that were not used properly in their 1st year because Norm showed to much loyalty to the 3 star kids he recruited.

If you used 4 star recruits I might agree with you but we are not going to have Sustained Success we 3 star recruits.
We are going to agree to disagree.
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Red I'm not arguing the point that Lavin did more with Norm's players, especially Hardy, then Norm did. Lets not change the argument. But the fact of the matter is that if Lavin could recruit the 2nd tier and local kids they way Norm did, and still grab his perennial 4 and/or 5 star kid, this program would not have the lack of continuity/issues with fielding a team/last minute recruiting scrambles, that we've seen for the last 4 years. The point I'm making is that the foundation of the team cannot be 4 and 5 star recruits. Not enough of them, to much turnover, sometimes riskier, etc. These are the number of top 100 kids Lavin has brought in:
2011-2012: 5
2012-2013: 2
2013-2014: 1
2014-2015: 0
2015-2016: 1

I'm not even talking about 5 star recruits, just top 100 kids. Granted 2015-2016 is incomplete and will hopefully turn out to be a true "stellar recruiting class". Of the 8 top 100 kids we've had to date, 4 stayed 2 years or less and there's a good chance a 5th(Jordan) may not make it past 2 years. What makes you think that if Lavin hasn't been able to exactly stockpile 4 and 5 star recruits since he's arrived here, that he's all of a sudden going to be able to do so? Making the tournament once every four years with a bunch of upper classmen isn't my idea of a successful program. I doubt it's the administrations either. Notwithstanding all the usual excuses(Mo and Jakarr left unexpectedly, Amir wanted to play baseball, Nurideen was a head case, etc, etc, etc), IMO whatever blueprint Lavin's been using isn't working. And if it ain't working by now, time to try something new.
 
H
It's nice to see the leading college sports writer for the Post doing a positive piece on the city's college hoops team. It's been a while.

Let's hope Lavin lands these players.

Also, I don't see this as a repeat of filling an entire starting team plus it's bench as Lavin needed to do four years ago. Next season, there will be three or four kids from this team who will be playing minutes along with the new players.
Click to expand...
The problem is ,other than our first 6 players, there are no other players that Lavin looks comfortable using as backups. Altogether he is forced to use them sparingly, none of them look like BE starters next year.
Click to expand...

I spoke to fellow poster JPM a few weeks ago about Adonis. John, who knows the game and assesses talent as well as anyone, noted again that he has high hopes for Adonis. The one obvious concern is whether he takes the big step & commits to getting into reasonable shape. If he does, we both believe he could be a very effective big in the BE with his skill set. That is a big if, but I hope someone will motivate him to pay the price. If he does, he and Amar will be solid players & really help us down the road. What a shame if he doesn't. Perhaps this summer, someone of influence will help him get it.
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Saw John at CTk last week. Unfortunately he was sitting diagonally across the gym(with Mile Quick), which was packed, so I wasn't able to go over and say hello.
 
When we were ranked 15th Lavin should be fired because we had no players for next year.

When recruiting is going well enough to get an article like this, then we're recruiting the wrong players, or not enough local players, or not enough 3 star players or something.

"Lavin doesn't develop players" is still being said even though the facts are overwhelmingly otherwise.

We get posts about Lavin planning to leave, or not bothering to recruit… none of which the posters know and all of which is false…

And even if these posters are forced to grudgingly compliment his strategies, or in-game and halftime adjustments, then it's he called a bad time-out, or he didn't do what they wanted last year, or something.

Lavin shows extraordinary courage and morality and ethics in dealing with D'lo, but clearly he's got nefarious motives with Jordan.

and on and on and on..

And if we have a great season, with great kids, and if we get a great incoming class, then it'll be endless posts about how he dresses.

Can't make this stuff up.
 
One other observation. It seems like we're always on kids who are looking to use us as a stepping stone to the next level(NBA, Europe, D league). Moe, Jakarr, Sanchez, Jordan, etc. And now possibly Diallo and the Italian and Greek kids. Maybe even LoVett, And it seems as though our staff has been has been using "immediate and abundant PT" as its biggest selling tool. That's all good and well, and college teams often supplement their rosters with kids like that. But filling a roster with kids like that, while impressive on paper, is not going to provide continuity to the program nor result in sustained success on the court IMO. Which once again brings me back to the assertion by me and others that the way to build and sustain a program is not with these 1 and done or 2 and done kind of kids, although we'll certainly take them. Its with the solid 3 star kids, many of whom can be found right here in our backyard and elsewhere.

PS I would ask the usual suspects to please read my post all the way through before accusing me of not wanting us to recruit 5 star and European kids, because that's not at all what I'm saying.
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So what, you're saying you don't want us to after 5 stars?? Wtf? Lol just kidding monte, I know reading that first sentence probably got your blood flowing a little bit ;)
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Jack my blood is always flowing pretty good(for better or worse), you just got it to the boiling point for a split second lol
 
Can you name a high major program that has achieved sustained success with 3 star players?
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Butler- transitioned from Mid Major conference to the A 10 to the Big East they have 2 4 star recruits playing them.

Xavier had 2 4 star recruits last year.

Wichita State. Not in a high major conference

.
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They have 4 star recruits because they succeeded with three star recruits.
 
I have a hard time understanding the disparity between this article and what some posters have claimed now for more than a year and most recently.

How do you guys explain the complaints that Lavin and co. isn't working hard at recruiting? One respected poster PM'd me a few months back and said that he knew that Lavin had stopped recruiting altogether. This article indicates that this could be a banner year for St. John's recruiting.

Paultz, Monte, Avon, someone, anyone. Is our staff recruiting hard or not?
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Only thing most of us get to see are results. We were down to bare bones, and the last 2 years have yielded what? How do you see it.
 
I have a hard time understanding the disparity between this article and what some posters have claimed now for more than a year and most recently.

How do you guys explain the complaints that Lavin and co. isn't working hard at recruiting? One respected poster PM'd me a few months back and said that he knew that Lavin had stopped recruiting altogether. This article indicates that this could be a banner year for St. John's recruiting.

Paultz, Monte, Avon, someone, anyone. Is our staff recruiting hard or not?
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Our staff has been working and to say that Lavin mailed it in is wrong. Whitehead was going with Tiny and once Tiny got the job at Seton Hall, game over. Carrington didn't see himself getting many minutes at St Johns this year and since his mother wanted to see him play, Seton Hall. Some on this board were killing Lavin for getting Amar, who I think will be a good four year player for us. Amar still has a lot of work to do just like most freshmen. However, I can tell you this. After a game earlier in the season at Carnesecca, Amar and Stewart were right back in Taffner putting up shots.
Some are criticizing Lavin for going after Briscoe, then the same people say he does not recruit locally. We almost had Briscoe until Kentucky jumped in the picture. As the article stated, they have been recruiting LoVett for a while. Rico and Freeman's coach stay in contact. Doesn't it show people anything when Sampson commits, when most on this board thought it was a lost cause when Briscoe chose Kentucky. We never stopped recruiting Diallo, and on another thread a poster stated that Phil and Chris were at OSNA this week. I don't think that you all realize how much it means to a recruit when kids from a school that is recruiting him show up on his campus. With Mussina, it appears to be us against him deciding to play professionally.
As for the 2016 class, I state for a fact that Lavin has been in contact with Temple Gibbs and his family at least twice a week. Those of us who go to games have seen Salnave at Carnesecca.
All of the things that I have written above, I have either observed personally or have first hand knowledge about through speaking with the people involved.
What disturbs me about this board is when I read statements like Lavin is leaving to go back to ESPN, if Lavin did not tell you that, why repeat it. Or Lavin has stopped recruiting and has mailed it in. Have you personally spoken to Lavin about what he is doing and what recruits he is going after. I also hate when a reporter or anyone else says "I heard from a source", that is total BS. I remember someone once saying," If you can't tell me the name, I don't want to hear the story".
Our season still has promise and it looks like things are picking up on the recruiting trail. Let's continue to root for the REDMEN and hope for the best.
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It's posts like this that after promising myself not to read my favorite website can't keep away. It's the stuff I as a fan don't know and appreciate.
 
H
It's nice to see the leading college sports writer for the Post doing a positive piece on the city's college hoops team. It's been a while.

Let's hope Lavin lands these players.

Also, I don't see this as a repeat of filling an entire starting team plus it's bench as Lavin needed to do four years ago. Next season, there will be three or four kids from this team who will be playing minutes along with the new players.
Click to expand...
The problem is ,other than our first 6 players, there are no other players that Lavin looks comfortable using as backups. Altogether he is forced to use them sparingly, none of them look like BE starters next year.
Click to expand...

I spoke to fellow poster JPM a few weeks ago about Adonis. John, who knows the game and assesses talent as well as anyone, noted again that he has high hopes for Adonis. The one obvious concern is whether he takes the big step & commits to getting into reasonable shape. If he does, we both believe he could be a very effective big in the BE with his skill set. That is a big if, but I hope someone will motivate him to pay the price. If he does, he and Amar will be solid players & really help us down the road. What a shame if he doesn't. Perhaps this summer, someone of influence will help him get it.
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Thanks Paultz. I'm betting on this kid doing what he needs to do to help this team win. I think Felix, Amer and Stewart will contribute. Perhaps Henderson and Phil come through as role players next season. And it's not out of the question that one or two of the two main guys come back too.

It is a significant turnover, but not quite the situation four years back when this team amazingly won 13 during a tough ass schedule.
 
No offense to Zach but I'm not so comfortable with him writing nice things. We seem to do much better when he rights negative articles :)
 
I have a hard time understanding the disparity between this article and what some posters have claimed now for more than a year and most recently.

How do you guys explain the complaints that Lavin and co. isn't working hard at recruiting? One respected poster PM'd me a few months back and said that he knew that Lavin had stopped recruiting altogether. This article indicates that this could be a banner year for St. John's recruiting.

Paultz, Monte, Avon, someone, anyone. Is our staff recruiting hard or not?
Click to expand...


Our staff has been working and to say that Lavin mailed it in is wrong. Whitehead was going with Tiny and once Tiny got the job at Seton Hall, game over. Carrington didn't see himself getting many minutes at St Johns this year and since his mother wanted to see him play, Seton Hall. Some on this board were killing Lavin for getting Amar, who I think will be a good four year player for us. Amar still has a lot of work to do just like most freshmen. However, I can tell you this. After a game earlier in the season at Carnesecca, Amar and Stewart were right back in Taffner putting up shots.
Some are criticizing Lavin for going after Briscoe, then the same people say he does not recruit locally. We almost had Briscoe until Kentucky jumped in the picture. As the article stated, they have been recruiting LoVett for a while. Rico and Freeman's coach stay in contact. Doesn't it show people anything when Sampson commits, when most on this board thought it was a lost cause when Briscoe chose Kentucky. We never stopped recruiting Diallo, and on another thread a poster stated that Phil and Chris were at OSNA this week. I don't think that you all realize how much it means to a recruit when kids from a school that is recruiting him show up on his campus. With Mussina, it appears to be us against him deciding to play professionally.
As for the 2016 class, I state for a fact that Lavin has been in contact with Temple Gibbs and his family at least twice a week. Those of us who go to games have seen Salnave at Carnesecca.
All of the things that I have written above, I have either observed personally or have first hand knowledge about through speaking with the people involved.
What disturbs me about this board is when I read statements like Lavin is leaving to go back to ESPN, if Lavin did not tell you that, why repeat it. Or Lavin has stopped recruiting and has mailed it in. Have you personally spoken to Lavin about what he is doing and what recruits he is going after. I also hate when a reporter or anyone else says "I heard from a source", that is total BS. I remember someone once saying," If you can't tell me the name, I don't want to hear the story".
Our season still has promise and it looks like things are picking up on the recruiting trail. Let's continue to root for the REDMEN and hope for the best.
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It's posts like this that after promising myself not to read my favorite website can't keep away. It's the stuff I as a fan don't know and appreciate.
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Check your PMs, indy.
 
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