Absolutfan
Member
How can that be??? Something really stinks here......... I just dont get it. Their ability alone should have made it at least competitive, no?
St. John's-Cincy Game II Game Thread
- Thread starter Della9250
- Start date
How can that be??? Something really stinks here......... I just dont get it. Their ability alone should have made it at least competitive, no?
cavalier86
Member
I dont't want to be negitive at all after this game. However, this was the first game this year that we didn't look competitive at all. But the bottom line is you are not going to compete at this level of college basketball with 6 players. Your just not. This was going to be a rebuilding year even if we had a full squad, but with eligibility and transfers we are a shadow of the team we thought we were going to be. Lavin needs to bring in recruits who want to play at st johns and help us reach the next level. Can it be done. Without a doubt. Is it going to be easy? No, but we have to have faith in Coach lavin and his staff.
We will have other games this year like this and as fans will will be dejected, but we need to stay positive and look to next year and beyond. We are work in progress that is being built from scratch it will take time.
We will have other games this year like this and as fans will will be dejected, but we need to stay positive and look to next year and beyond. We are work in progress that is being built from scratch it will take time.
Pray4change
Member
This is a Rough reclamation project.. Our team and school are in need of CPR. Going to the SU game followed by watching this... Time to shut it down for 2012 for me. It's sad and embarrassing and even tougher for the kids and coaching staff that have to deal with the pounding. I'll give some money to the school to help out but can't watch poundings..who can?
Absolutfan
Member
What you are saying is true but we were in the same position when we played Cinci the first time and such a turn around to this extent should not have happened period.
We will have other games this year like this and as fans will will be dejected, but we need to stay positive and look to next year and beyond. We are work in progress that is being built from scratch it will take time.[/quote]
What you are saying is true but we were in the same position when we played Cinci the first time and such a turn around to this extent should not have happened period.[/quote]
No excuses, John in a rational world you are correct, but these kids aren't robots. The SU game and Stith leaving had to affect them. Stith may not have seemed like a key player to us, but to them he probably was pretty important.
They could have handled tonight much better, but they didn't and that is tough to watch. I can only imagine what they are thinking, when is the next shoe going to drop. Tough to have patience watching this, but what is the other option.
What you are saying is true but we were in the same position when we played Cinci the first time and such a turn around to this extent should not have happened period.[/quote]
No excuses, John in a rational world you are correct, but these kids aren't robots. The SU game and Stith leaving had to affect them. Stith may not have seemed like a key player to us, but to them he probably was pretty important.
They could have handled tonight much better, but they didn't and that is tough to watch. I can only imagine what they are thinking, when is the next shoe going to drop. Tough to have patience watching this, but what is the other option.
Harrison and Harkless had a bad shooting night...Harkless made a bunch after the game was effectively over.
So, that's it. As we saw in other games: we don't have height; we don't have a legit point guard; we don't have depth. We have to play a slower pace in the half court and we have to play zone when we have six players to work with...
So, everything else has to go right. When it doesn't we lose. We knew that in November.
Why discount the players we have for the assets we lack.
The lost players from our ranks, committed as well, really is a setback. But that's not the fault of the current
players, who will demonstrate their skills over the next few years when we have a balanced attack and rebounding capability.
If Lavin can't provide some height, we will relive much of this year's frustration. I think the glass if more than half full if your thinking of the next three years; admittedly, a bit less than half empty this year.
So, that's it. As we saw in other games: we don't have height; we don't have a legit point guard; we don't have depth. We have to play a slower pace in the half court and we have to play zone when we have six players to work with...
So, everything else has to go right. When it doesn't we lose. We knew that in November.
Why discount the players we have for the assets we lack.
The lost players from our ranks, committed as well, really is a setback. But that's not the fault of the current
players, who will demonstrate their skills over the next few years when we have a balanced attack and rebounding capability.
If Lavin can't provide some height, we will relive much of this year's frustration. I think the glass if more than half full if your thinking of the next three years; admittedly, a bit less than half empty this year.
What is the team's relationship with Coach Dunlap? I can't imagine it's any good. Looks like they gave up on him tonight.
To me, Coach Dunlap is bad cop. Look at his press conferences following are victories (rare as they are). Even then, it's never an acknolwedgement of any of the good we did in those games. It's always "do this better, do that, etc." Some guys may respond to that kind of talk, but most others probably won't go the extra mile for someone whom your work is never good enough for.
Lavin is the opposite. It's always sunny in his world, at least when talking to the media (I do think he points out corrections to the team, but maybe in a more calm manner).
It's a nice opposite dynamic that could work really well together (see Torre and Zimmer for all those years), but if you take one of those pieces away, the other gets exposed.
I want Lavin to get well as much as anybody, but it may be time to get him a weelchair, if that what it takes for him to come back to the sidelines soon. If he can't, make Chiles the head coach, and Dunlap goes back to assistant. That way, the communication between coach and player likley improves.
To me, Coach Dunlap is bad cop. Look at his press conferences following are victories (rare as they are). Even then, it's never an acknolwedgement of any of the good we did in those games. It's always "do this better, do that, etc." Some guys may respond to that kind of talk, but most others probably won't go the extra mile for someone whom your work is never good enough for.
Lavin is the opposite. It's always sunny in his world, at least when talking to the media (I do think he points out corrections to the team, but maybe in a more calm manner).
It's a nice opposite dynamic that could work really well together (see Torre and Zimmer for all those years), but if you take one of those pieces away, the other gets exposed.
I want Lavin to get well as much as anybody, but it may be time to get him a weelchair, if that what it takes for him to come back to the sidelines soon. If he can't, make Chiles the head coach, and Dunlap goes back to assistant. That way, the communication between coach and player likley improves.
Della9250
Active member
“The fact of the matter is we have played with more certainty at times this season,” said St. John’s assistant Mike Dunlap. “Rebounding is an effort stat. It just wasn’t right tonight for whatever reason. We were flat. That’s on me.”
“Any win they get in the Big East this year is gravy,” Cronin said about the Red Storm. “You can’t play with all first-year players in this league. It’s unrealistic.”
“Any win they get in the Big East this year is gravy,” Cronin said about the Red Storm. “You can’t play with all first-year players in this league. It’s unrealistic.”
JackofVirginia
Active member
If tonight's lack of rebounding doesn't magnify our need for "some" big men I don't know what will. Cinci got to all loose balls and long rebounds. Man, do we need Obepka and Sampson.
I don't know why most teams fail to play zone against us, especially since I have yet to see Dunlap set up any screens for Harrison.
Our zone was poor tonight, again allowing wide open threes and easy layups. Same old, same old!
I don't know why most teams fail to play zone against us, especially since I have yet to see Dunlap set up any screens for Harrison.
Our zone was poor tonight, again allowing wide open threes and easy layups. Same old, same old!
TRabinowitz
Member
Tonight was horrific in terms of effort. Dunlap seems to have alluded to that in post game press conference. The effort and focus just wasn't there. Good for coach to take blame for that. Moe and D'Angelo were nonexistant, the help defense was ATROCIOUS and so was the ball handling and decision making. Attitudes need to get right.
By the way, the crowd tonight was flat out AWFUL. And I don't even want to hear people blaming the student section for this. They were the ONLY ones making noise. The rest of the crowd was so silent you would think it was the opera. I was yelling (mostly out of frustration) for a good portion of the second half. The people in front of me were upset about it, but you know what?? I really don't care. This is a basketball game, and you can sit on your hands if you want but don't hate on those of us who want to go a bit wild. And don't get upset at the student section, who is the lone section of people who actually DO make noise. Time for our alumni and non-student section fans to get up off their a$$ and do their part to create an environment.
By the way, the crowd tonight was flat out AWFUL. And I don't even want to hear people blaming the student section for this. They were the ONLY ones making noise. The rest of the crowd was so silent you would think it was the opera. I was yelling (mostly out of frustration) for a good portion of the second half. The people in front of me were upset about it, but you know what?? I really don't care. This is a basketball game, and you can sit on your hands if you want but don't hate on those of us who want to go a bit wild. And don't get upset at the student section, who is the lone section of people who actually DO make noise. Time for our alumni and non-student section fans to get up off their a$$ and do their part to create an environment.
Class of 72
Active member
We were out rebounded by 24 tonight. But it was three Cincy guards that did half the rebounding damage. When a team is out boarded by such a huge margin it spells "lack of effort".
We also mishandled the ball to the tune of allowing 11 steals.
24+11 = 35 extra possessions.
Coach Cronin is a very good coach and a decent man. Had he not called off the dogs, this was a 40 point loss.
Class of 72
Active member
I feel your frustration Flakawitz but the small crowd was frozen in frustrated disbelief in what they were witnessing tonight. It was not hitting the freshman wall.....it was the roof falling on their collective heads. Bad basketball = silent crowd. Tonight the crowd sensed our guys were not into it and their disinterest is understandable. As freshmen they get a pass. The crowd will return when the players start playing basketball with a purpose. It will even out in the end.
I was part of that crowd last night, along with my son, and we very vocal to begin with. But as Class of 72 said, we just couldn't believe what we were seeing out on the court and it took all the life out of us. We got more excited when Jamal White hit his two 3s!
I got there early and kept waiting for bodies to fill the seats. They never did. I am usually loud and obnoxious (even for 3/4 of the Syracuse game), but I never got up out of my seat except to let someone get by to go to the bathroom. The team never gave the crowd anything to cheer about, but it is also the crowd's responsibility to energize the players. We both failed against Cinci.
I turned the game off before White got in...my newborn was crying/couldn't sleep and the game itself wasn't much to watch...but does anyone think White should get some minutes moving forwarD?
I saw he hit two three's...we need all the outside shooting we can get. What is there to lose? Would we really be much worse off if we gave him 8-10 minutes a game?
I saw he hit two three's...we need all the outside shooting we can get. What is there to lose? Would we really be much worse off if we gave him 8-10 minutes a game?
ManHATTEN1
Member
Not to mention one of the White's three's was a lucky bank! 