St John’s Hiring Pause & Budget Challenges

[quote="Beast of the East" post=366332][quote="Proud Alumn" post=366252]Gempesaw has made some positive changes but he hasn't done anything transformative, which is disappointing. However, he may not have had the authority from the Board to make the changes necessary to really improve the school's reputation.[/quote]

Wrong. Flat out wrong.

In no particular order, Gempeshaw, despite tightly controlling spending, as he should , has spent generously on:

1. Hiring top notch administrators including Drs. Passerini and Sharpe, who are the Dean's of the Collins College of Professional Studies, and Tobin School of Business. I've been told that they are in a group of highly talented hires who would not have come to St. John's except for Gempeshaw's passion to improve academics.

2. Successful Initiatives to increase the Catholic student population of this Catholic university. We now draw large numbers of high performing catholic high school students from the best catholic hs in the area due to increased grants and scholarships. (St. Anthony's and Chaminade combine provide almost 50 freshmen each of the past few years.

3. Development and support of the St. John's institute for Catholic Schools, which provides collaborative guidance and participation of all 3 area Dioceses and whose 3 superintendents and auxiliary bishops are members.

4. Securing some willdly generous donations. Such as the $10 million recently donated by Bill and Leslie Collins. Recently feted 82 donors who have each in the aggregate donated $1 million

5. Been in full support of the Cragg and Anderson hires, the highest investments in those positions to date.

There is more, but attracting top academic talent while also educating students from disadvantaged economic backgrounds is not mutually exclusive. You can do both, and sju is doing that.

I'm just as proud of the facts facts that under Gempeshaw we have refocused our Catholic identity as a school, attracting top notch academic talent through scholarships, and graduating students who are being enabled to break the chains of multi-generational poverty.

If our rankings suffer as a result, I consider that a source of pride and not disappointment.[/quote]

Beast - I think this is a great post. I am not an alum of St. John's but a Queen's resident for close to 45 years. I think of St. John's as an integral part of my borough. This goes beyond my support of the basketball team. While unfortunately I don't have the resources to make $1 million donations, I make small donations every year. I have many friends and colleagues that have gone to the university and now children of friends. I also would like pass along something positive. About 2.5 miles away from the Campus sits a small by NYC standards, public high school adjacent to the Queens College Campus that my son attends. For those that like rankings, this school was recently ranked by U.S. News and World Report as the #1 public high school in New York State and 11th in the nation. Last years graduating class was about 300 students and more then 10 percent of those students are now attending St. John's. I am pretty sure that all of these students were or could have been accepted by higher ranked universities. They choose St. John's because they are primarily first generation college students that in most cases want or need to live at home to help their families and or make college costs more manageable for their parents and themselves. They also feel at home at St. John's because of the diversity that the school provides but most importantly they value the education that the University provides as these are students that mostly come from families that highly value education.

If there was one area that I would like to see the school improve upon is its graduation rate. While it is above the National Average it currently sits at about 58% for students graduating in six years. I believe this is one of the main factors that hurts the schools reputation. Almost 40% of incoming students receive Pell Grants and while I am a big proponent of government assistance for college students I wonder if a percentage of these students and to panther2's point some other students should begin their education in Community College. I agree with Mike Zaun on the fact that in many cases student's with 75 averages or below in high school should not be accepted to any college let alone St. John's.
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=366332][quote="Proud Alumn" post=366252]Gempesaw has made some positive changes but he hasn't done anything transformative, which is disappointing. However, he may not have had the authority from the Board to make the changes necessary to really improve the school's reputation.[/quote]

Wrong. Flat out wrong.

...

There is more, but attracting top academic talent while also educating students from disadvantaged economic backgrounds is not mutually exclusive. You can do both, and sju is doing that.

I'm just as proud of the facts facts that under Gempeshaw we have refocused our Catholic identity as a school, attracting top notch academic talent through scholarships, and graduating students who are being enabled to break the chains of multi-generational poverty.

If our rankings suffer as a result, I consider that a source of pride and not disappointment.[/quote]

You are blind to results. What I said is 100% correct. And your last statement is why you are part of the problem.
I said Gempesaw has done some positive things. Bringing in good outside and better qualified people into leadership roles is a positive. But it also hasn’t moved the needle at all on the school’s academic reputation. Bill Collins has been generously donating for decades and he was a key decision maker in bringing Gempesaw in. And the school was increasing its donor outreach and fundraising efforts before Gempesaw got here. He has continued it, which is good, but again it hasn’t been transformative in any way. This is a discussion about the school’s academic reputation so I’ll leave talk of basketball hires to another thread, but suffice to say Gempesaw has a mixed record with that.
I like Gempesaw and think he has done positive things but for some reason, maybe institutional and Board resistance or maybe because of his own view, he hasn’t driven the needed core changes and the school’s reputation continues to be bad and it’s ranking has plummeted. As Bill Parcells once said, you are what your record says you are.
Your last statements are troubling. Raising the academic standing of the school to better help its graduates is not incompatible with Catholic identity and is not anti-low income families. Don’t use Catholicism as a crutch to why SJU remains poorly ranked.
 
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It's really hard to change rankings in any meaningful way. It's based on subjectivity of criteria/weighting. Moving up from 180 to 150 means little. Even going from 150 to 125 means nothing. Only the top 50 is it relevant and they are not going away any time soon.The bigger issue is that for every school looking to move up, one needs to move down and they are all trying to maintain or improve.

There are good and bad about St. John's, like most schools. It's hard to shake the commuter school reputation. Still as less than 45% freshman live on campus and just over 25% total. That hurts school spirit, campus culture etc. We've got really bright kids and some that should not be in college. Some programs and courses should be ashamed to be considered academic or college level. My daughter is looking at colleges now and as much as she would like to be back in NY, loves St. John's because I went there and is a big fan of basketball team, has good grades and would get good merit scholarship $, she shared many of the concerns that other very good students weigh when considering where to spend next four years. Too many other options as good or better to not think about very carefully.
 
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[quote="RedStormNC" post=366346]It's really hard to change rankings in any meaningful way. It's based on subjectivity of criteria/weighting. Moving up from 180 to 150 means little. Even going from 150 to 125 means nothing. Only the top 50 is it relevant and they are not going away any time soon.The bigger issue is that for every school looking to move up, one needs to move down and they are all trying to maintain or improve.

There are good and bad about St. John's most schools. It's hard to shake the commuter school reputation. Still as less than 45% freshman live on campus and just over 25% total. We've got really bright kids and some that should not be in college. Some programs and courses should be ashamed to be considered academic or college level. My daughter is looking at colleges now and as much as shed like to be back in NY, loves St. John's because I went there and is a big fan of basketball team, she shared many of the concerns that other very good students weigh when considering where to spend next four years. Too many other options as good or better.[/quote]

As we look for colleges for our two kids this is something that is very important to us as well. We have ruled out StonyBrook for similar reasons. We would prefer for them to have at a school where there friends are on campus during the weekends. And for us these are local schools. If we were sending them hundreds miles away it would be even more important.
 
[quote="Andrew" post=366342][quote="Beast of the East" post=366332][quote="Proud Alumn" post=366252]Gempesaw has made some positive changes but he hasn't done anything transformative, which is disappointing. However, he may not have had the authority from the Board to make the changes necessary to really improve the school's reputation.[/quote]

Wrong. Flat out wrong.

In no particular order, Gempeshaw, despite tightly controlling spending, as he should , has spent generously on:

1. Hiring top notch administrators including Drs. Passerini and Sharpe, who are the Dean's of the Collins College of Professional Studies, and Tobin School of Business. I've been told that they are in a group of highly talented hires who would not have come to St. John's except for Gempeshaw's passion to improve academics.

2. Successful Initiatives to increase the Catholic student population of this Catholic university. We now draw large numbers of high performing catholic high school students from the best catholic hs in the area due to increased grants and scholarships. (St. Anthony's and Chaminade combine provide almost 50 freshmen each of the past few years.

3. Development and support of the St. John's institute for Catholic Schools, which provides collaborative guidance and participation of all 3 area Dioceses and whose 3 superintendents and auxiliary bishops are members.

4. Securing some willdly generous donations. Such as the $10 million recently donated by Bill and Leslie Collins. Recently feted 82 donors who have each in the aggregate donated $1 million

5. Been in full support of the Cragg and Anderson hires, the highest investments in those positions to date.

There is more, but attracting top academic talent while also educating students from disadvantaged economic backgrounds is not mutually exclusive. You can do both, and sju is doing that.

I'm just as proud of the facts facts that under Gempeshaw we have refocused our Catholic identity as a school, attracting top notch academic talent through scholarships, and graduating students who are being enabled to break the chains of multi-generational poverty.

If our rankings suffer as a result, I consider that a source of pride and not disappointment.[/quote]

Beast - I think this is a great post. I am not an alum of St. John's but a Queen's resident for close to 45 years. I think of St. John's as an integral part of my borough. This goes beyond my support of the basketball team. While unfortunately I don't have the resources to make $1 million donations, I make small donations every year. I have many friends and colleagues that have gone to the university and now children of friends. I also would like pass along something positive. About 2.5 miles away from the Campus sits a small by NYC standards, public high school adjacent to the Queens College Campus that my son attends. For those that like rankings, this school was recently ranked by U.S. News and World Report as the #1 public high school in New York State and 11th in the nation. Last years graduating class was about 300 students and more then 10 percent of those students are now attending St. John's. I am pretty sure that all of these students were or could have been accepted by higher ranked universities. They choose St. John's because they are primarily first generation college students that in most cases want or need to live at home to help their families and or make college costs more manageable for their parents and themselves. They also feel at home at St. John's because of the diversity that the school provides but most importantly they value the education that the University provides as these are students that mostly come from families that highly value education.

If there was one area that I would like to see the school improve upon is its graduation rate. While it is above the National Average it currently sits at about 58% for students graduating in six years. I believe this is one of the main factors that hurts the schools reputation. Almost 40% of incoming students receive Pell Grants and while I am a big proponent of government assistance for college students I wonder if a percentage of these students and to panther2's point some other students should begin their education in Community College. I agree with Mike Zaun on the fact that in many cases student's with 75 averages or below in high school should not be accepted to any college let alone St. John's.[/quote]


Can we be more selective, maybe shut down some buildings, reduce costs by cutting faculty and shrinking administration to elevate academic standing. I suppose we could.

As some great benefactors, such as jsj have noted to me, "We simply have to figure out a way to help kids who help their families with nearly ft jobs or acting as surrogate parents to siblings." It's a challenge many of us are aware of and these kids need help. Way more importation are the kids who never graduate because of these obstacles.

One of my passions in my next post professional life is literacy. Our new Dean of Ed. Dr. Bell, recently had lunch with me to begin the formative investigation to have sju sponsor such a program in underperforming areas. Wouldnt it be great to help kids be prepared to come to sju as both superior students and from poorer families .
 
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Not everyone is meant to go to college. College attendance is the most over hyped thing in this country. Let's allow people to take pride in doing an honest job that may require some sweat and dirt.
Let's raise the standards for incoming freshmen.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=366341]I believe the Academic Standing of the University is important to Alumni, even one as old as I am .. Much has been written here that attempts to explain the issues that have contributed to the reasons why St John’s is ranked in the 180’s by US World Report currently. Which pretty much puts us at the bottom tier of our fellow BE Schools . To me , a school like St John’s to be ranked so low is problematic , if not embarrassing . Virtually all of the other schools , especially the Jesuit ones, G’Town, Marquette , Xavier, Creighton, are all in the top 100 , with G’Town in the top 20 . Villanova , a Augustinian school is top 50. DePaul , another large Vincentian school , like us is ranked in the 120’s . Seton Hall and Providence , smaller Catholic schools are also ranked higher . Former BE members , Notre Dame and BC , are top 25 . What makes us so poor in comparison ? Those who have more inside information than I do, have stated the numerous reasons why we have ranked so low . I believe those explanations have validity . However, as many have noted , the School , since President Gempesaw ‘s era has taken substantial strides in bringing in new Deans in Pharmacy and Business . As a Tobin School alum and receiver of the Business School’s publications , the programs established by Dean Sharpe are impressive and sure to raise the credentials in that discipline . But , like the progress of our BB team , it will take time . Likely the same for the other Colleges within the University structure. Last spring , a very respected and well known Alum , who posts here , privately communicated to me that St John’s had 15 students from Chaminade that enrolled at St John’s which was the same number of Chaminade grads who enrolled at Notre Dame . ND routinely takes a lot of Chaminade kids , because they are top students . I know because my Granddaughter is a sophomore at ND . She recently said to me , “ Grandpa, you can’t believe how many kids here at ND went to that high school .As opposed to just 2 of her Classmates from her public High School in Port Washington , which is a top notch public school . Rest assured , I’m not advocating for SJU to duplicate ND. That isn’t in the cards . But, it does point out the effort being made here recently to upgrade the Student Body . And , the overall Academic standing . I don’t know the answer as to how that can be accelerated but , as I see it , there is much evidence to show it is a University priority . There should be no obstacle to St John’s being ranked in the top 100 of the Nation’s schools but , it will take time . Maybe longer than it takes our BB program to take its’ place , once again as a top 50 or even, top 25 team . Go Redmen ![/quote]

Very nice post. Also note that the US News rankings of the Tobin College and the Pharmacy School among other business and pharmacy programs is not good either. Both are toward the bottom of the listed rankings or not even ranked, last I saw. The only school with a respectable good ranking is the Law School, and that is largely due to Dean Simons driving good changes and reducing the size of the school to keep the quality up.
 
[quote="Knight" post=366357]Not everyone is meant to go to college. College attendance is the most over hyped thing in this country. Let's allow people to take pride in doing an honest job that may require some sweat and dirt.
Let's raise the standards for incoming freshmen.[/quote]

I agree with your premise that “not everyone” is meant to go to college. Plenty of respected, well paying jobs do not require a degree.

However, it is fact that merely having a degree is a “door opener.” Like it or not, agree with it or not some industries will not consider you without one. I’ve worked on Wall Street for almost 30 years and regularly hire people at entry level. Requirement one is college degree.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=366346]It's really hard to change rankings in any meaningful way. It's based on subjectivity of criteria/weighting. Moving up from 180 to 150 means little. Even going from 150 to 125 means nothing. Only the top 50 is it relevant and they are not going away any time soon.The bigger issue is that for every school looking to move up, one needs to move down and they are all trying to maintain or improve.
.[/quote]

Agreed, which is why major changes are needed to make a difference. Make the changes I stated in above posts and the reputation and rankings would go up substantially.
 
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[quote="Proud Alumn" post=366359][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=366341]I believe the Academic Standing of the University is important to Alumni, even one as old as I am .. Much has been written here that attempts to explain the issues that have contributed to the reasons why St John’s is ranked in the 180’s by US World Report currently. Which pretty much puts us at the bottom tier of our fellow BE Schools . To me , a school like St John’s to be ranked so low is problematic , if not embarrassing . Virtually all of the other schools , especially the Jesuit ones, G’Town, Marquette , Xavier, Creighton, are all in the top 100 , with G’Town in the top 20 . Villanova , a Augustinian school is top 50. DePaul , another large Vincentian school , like us is ranked in the 120’s . Seton Hall and Providence , smaller Catholic schools are also ranked higher . Former BE members , Notre Dame and BC , are top 25 . What makes us so poor in comparison ? Those who have more inside information than I do, have stated the numerous reasons why we have ranked so low . I believe those explanations have validity . However, as many have noted , the School , since President Gempesaw ‘s era has taken substantial strides in bringing in new Deans in Pharmacy and Business . As a Tobin School alum and receiver of the Business School’s publications , the programs established by Dean Sharpe are impressive and sure to raise the credentials in that discipline . But , like the progress of our BB team , it will take time . Likely the same for the other Colleges within the University structure. Last spring , a very respected and well known Alum , who posts here , privately communicated to me that St John’s had 15 students from Chaminade that enrolled at St John’s which was the same number of Chaminade grads who enrolled at Notre Dame . ND routinely takes a lot of Chaminade kids , because they are top students . I know because my Granddaughter is a sophomore at ND . She recently said to me , “ Grandpa, you can’t believe how many kids here at ND went to that high school .As opposed to just 2 of her Classmates from her public High School in Port Washington , which is a top notch public school . Rest assured , I’m not advocating for SJU to duplicate ND. That isn’t in the cards . But, it does point out the effort being made here recently to upgrade the Student Body . And , the overall Academic standing . I don’t know the answer as to how that can be accelerated but , as I see it , there is much evidence to show it is a University priority . There should be no obstacle to St John’s being ranked in the top 100 of the Nation’s schools but , it will take time . Maybe longer than it takes our BB program to take its’ place , once again as a top 50 or even, top 25 team . Go Redmen ![/quote]

Very nice post. Also note that the US News rankings of the Tobin College and the Pharmacy School among other business and pharmacy programs is not good either. Both are toward the bottom of the listed rankings or not even ranked, last I saw. The only school with a respectable good ranking is the Law School, and that is largely due to Dean Simons driving good changes and reducing the size of the school to keep the quality up.[/quote]. First of all , I applaud you for selecting the moniker “ Proud Alum.” I think there are many of us in that category but , did not do so as eloquently as you have . I think you are correct in that , despite some significant effort to raise the Bar at Tobin and the College of Pharmacy , the needle hasn’t moved in a positive direction upward .. But , I don’t think that diminishes the efforts of Dean Sharpe nor, the Pharmacy Dean . It will likely take time .. One of the things I never knew about Notre Dame is that they have a Independent School located across the street called Holy Cross that admits Students who have good grades but , just not good enough to get into ND .. ND poses Holy Cross to those non admitted students as a alternative with the provision that if those Holy Cross Students maintain a B Average or higher in their first 2 years , they have a almost guarantee to be admitted to ND for their 3 rd and Senior year and be awarded a ND diploma at the end of 4 years . And, that ND diploma does not have an asterisk or any other identifiable mark that detracts from a regular 4 year attendance at ND . Holy Cross is run by the same clergy, the Holy Cross religious community as ND itself . I have no idea if St John’s could create a similar affiliated but , separate College to admit the lower qualified Student it seems committed to enrolling . It would be affiliated but , separated from the St John’s brand . And , it’s Academics and ratings would be its own and not wrapped into the larger St John’s brand . It might help our Rankings and still give access to the Marginal Student that St John’s seems committed to attracting . I know in my school years , St John’s had a Junior College for a 2 year program that admitted students that did not qualify for regular admittance . It seemed to work too . Don’t know what happened to that concept? At the end of 2 years the Junior College students were Awarded a Associate degree and if qualified , could seek admittance to St John’s regular Schools for the 3 rd and 4 th year . Greater minds than mine , may have or not considered renewing some form of that Affiliated or Aligned or Program . It might work . Lastly , some here may recall that Rudy of ND fame did his 2 years at Holy Cross before being admitted finally to ND itself . This Holy Cross is not the Holy Cross located in Massachusetts .
 
[quote="Andrew" post=366342][quote="Beast of the East" post=366332][quote="Proud Alumn" post=366252]Gempesaw has made some positive changes but he hasn't done anything transformative, which is disappointing. However, he may not have had the authority from the Board to make the changes necessary to really improve the school's reputation.[/quote]

Wrong. Flat out wrong.

In no particular order, Gempeshaw, despite tightly controlling spending, as he should , has spent generously on:

1. Hiring top notch administrators including Drs. Passerini and Sharpe, who are the Dean's of the Collins College of Professional Studies, and Tobin School of Business. I've been told that they are in a group of highly talented hires who would not have come to St. John's except for Gempeshaw's passion to improve academics.

2. Successful Initiatives to increase the Catholic student population of this Catholic university. We now draw large numbers of high performing catholic high school students from the best catholic hs in the area due to increased grants and scholarships. (St. Anthony's and Chaminade combine provide almost 50 freshmen each of the past few years.

3. Development and support of the St. John's institute for Catholic Schools, which provides collaborative guidance and participation of all 3 area Dioceses and whose 3 superintendents and auxiliary bishops are members.

4. Securing some willdly generous donations. Such as the $10 million recently donated by Bill and Leslie Collins. Recently feted 82 donors who have each in the aggregate donated $1 million

5. Been in full support of the Cragg and Anderson hires, the highest investments in those positions to date.

There is more, but attracting top academic talent while also educating students from disadvantaged economic backgrounds is not mutually exclusive. You can do both, and sju is doing that.

I'm just as proud of the facts facts that under Gempeshaw we have refocused our Catholic identity as a school, attracting top notch academic talent through scholarships, and graduating students who are being enabled to break the chains of multi-generational poverty.

If our rankings suffer as a result, I consider that a source of pride and not disappointment.[/quote]

Beast - I think this is a great post. I am not an alum of St. John's but a Queen's resident for close to 45 years. I think of St. John's as an integral part of my borough. This goes beyond my support of the basketball team. While unfortunately I don't have the resources to make $1 million donations, I make small donations every year. I have many friends and colleagues that have gone to the university and now children of friends. I also would like pass along something positive. About 2.5 miles away from the Campus sits a small by NYC standards, public high school adjacent to the Queens College Campus that my son attends. For those that like rankings, this school was recently ranked by U.S. News and World Report as the #1 public high school in New York State and 11th in the nation. Last years graduating class was about 300 students and more then 10 percent of those students are now attending St. John's. I am pretty sure that all of these students were or could have been accepted by higher ranked universities. They choose St. John's because they are primarily first generation college students that in most cases want or need to live at home to help their families and or make college costs more manageable for their parents and themselves. They also feel at home at St. John's because of the diversity that the school provides but most importantly they value the education that the University provides as these are students that mostly come from families that highly value education.

If there was one area that I would like to see the school improve upon is its graduation rate. While it is above the National Average it currently sits at about 58% for students graduating in six years. I believe this is one of the main factors that hurts the schools reputation. Almost 40% of incoming students receive Pell Grants and while I am a big proponent of government assistance for college students I wonder if a percentage of these students and to panther2's point some other students should begin their education in Community College. I agree with Mike Zaun on the fact that in many cases student's with 75 averages or below in high school should not be accepted to any college let alone St. John's.[/quote]

it’s actually 61 now but I agree with everything you said.
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?195809-St-John-s-University-New-York
 
[quote="Andrew" post=366342][quote="Beast of the East" post=366332][quote="Proud Alumn" post=366252]Gempesaw has made some positive changes but he hasn't done anything transformative, which is disappointing. However, he may not have had the authority from the Board to make the changes necessary to really improve the school's reputation.[/quote]

Wrong. Flat out wrong.

In no particular order, Gempeshaw, despite tightly controlling spending, as he should , has spent generously on:

1. Hiring top notch administrators including Drs. Passerini and Sharpe, who are the Dean's of the Collins College of Professional Studies, and Tobin School of Business. I've been told that they are in a group of highly talented hires who would not have come to St. John's except for Gempeshaw's passion to improve academics.

2. Successful Initiatives to increase the Catholic student population of this Catholic university. We now draw large numbers of high performing catholic high school students from the best catholic hs in the area due to increased grants and scholarships. (St. Anthony's and Chaminade combine provide almost 50 freshmen each of the past few years.

3. Development and support of the St. John's institute for Catholic Schools, which provides collaborative guidance and participation of all 3 area Dioceses and whose 3 superintendents and auxiliary bishops are members.

4. Securing some willdly generous donations. Such as the $10 million recently donated by Bill and Leslie Collins. Recently feted 82 donors who have each in the aggregate donated $1 million

5. Been in full support of the Cragg and Anderson hires, the highest investments in those positions to date.

There is more, but attracting top academic talent while also educating students from disadvantaged economic backgrounds is not mutually exclusive. You can do both, and sju is doing that.

I'm just as proud of the facts facts that under Gempeshaw we have refocused our Catholic identity as a school, attracting top notch academic talent through scholarships, and graduating students who are being enabled to break the chains of multi-generational poverty.

If our rankings suffer as a result, I consider that a source of pride and not disappointment.[/quote]

Beast - I think this is a great post. I am not an alum of St. John's but a Queen's resident for close to 45 years. I think of St. John's as an integral part of my borough. This goes beyond my support of the basketball team. While unfortunately I don't have the resources to make $1 million donations, I make small donations every year. I have many friends and colleagues that have gone to the university and now children of friends. I also would like pass along something positive. About 2.5 miles away from the Campus sits a small by NYC standards, public high school adjacent to the Queens College Campus that my son attends. For those that like rankings, this school was recently ranked by U.S. News and World Report as the #1 public high school in New York State and 11th in the nation. Last years graduating class was about 300 students and more then 10 percent of those students are now attending St. John's. I am pretty sure that all of these students were or could have been accepted by higher ranked universities. They choose St. John's because they are primarily first generation college students that in most cases want or need to live at home to help their families and or make college costs more manageable for their parents and themselves. They also feel at home at St. John's because of the diversity that the school provides but most importantly they value the education that the University provides as these are students that mostly come from families that highly value education.

If there was one area that I would like to see the school improve upon is its graduation rate. While it is above the National Average it currently sits at about 58% for students graduating in six years. I believe this is one of the main factors that hurts the schools reputation. Almost 40% of incoming students receive Pell Grants and while I am a big proponent of government assistance for college students I wonder if a percentage of these students and to panther2's point some other students should begin their education in Community College. I agree with Mike Zaun on the fact that in many cases student's with 75 averages or below in high school should not be accepted to any college let alone St. John's.[/quote]



Andrew, I agree, anyone who has an average of less than 80% should start out in a Community College. A lot of my friends have told their children this. Start out in a 2 year school and when you graduate you can go to the college of your choice. This makes a lot of sense because it puts the responsibility of performing well on the students.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=366332][quote="Proud Alumn" post=366252]Gempesaw has made some positive changes but he hasn't done anything transformative, which is disappointing. However, he may not have had the authority from the Board to make the changes necessary to really improve the school's reputation.[/quote]

Wrong. Flat out wrong.

In no particular order, Gempeshaw, despite tightly controlling spending, as he should , has spent generously on:

1. Hiring top notch administrators including Drs. Passerini and Sharpe, who are the Dean's of the Collins College of Professional Studies, and Tobin School of Business. I've been told that they are in a group of highly talented hires who would not have come to St. John's except for Gempeshaw's passion to improve academics.

2. Successful Initiatives to increase the Catholic student population of this Catholic university. We now draw large numbers of high performing catholic high school students from the best catholic hs in the area due to increased grants and scholarships. (St. Anthony's and Chaminade combine provide almost 50 freshmen each of the past few years.

3. Development and support of the St. John's institute for Catholic Schools, which provides collaborative guidance and participation of all 3 area Dioceses and whose 3 superintendents and auxiliary bishops are members.

4. Securing some willdly generous donations. Such as the $10 million recently donated by Bill and Leslie Collins. Recently feted 82 donors who have each in the aggregate donated $1 million

5. Been in full support of the Cragg and Anderson hires, the highest investments in those positions to date.

There is more, but attracting top academic talent while also educating students from disadvantaged economic backgrounds is not mutually exclusive. You can do both, and sju is doing that.

I'm just as proud of the facts facts that under Gempeshaw we have refocused our Catholic identity as a school, attracting top notch academic talent through scholarships, and graduating students who are being enabled to break the chains of multi-generational poverty.

If our rankings suffer as a result, I consider that a source of pride and not disappointment.[/quote]



Thanks very much for sharing your insight Beast. I did not know about a lot of the things you mentioned. I believe that President Gempesaw has the University headed in the right direction. I also believe that a successful basketball program will raise the number of applicants and make the admission process more competitive.
 
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[quote="panther2" post=366680][quote="Beast of the East" post=366332][quote="Proud Alumn" post=366252]Gempesaw has made some positive changes but he hasn't done anything transformative, which is disappointing. However, he may not have had the authority from the Board to make the changes necessary to really improve the school's reputation.[/quote]

Wrong. Flat out wrong.

In no particular order, Gempeshaw, despite tightly controlling spending, as he should , has spent generously on:

1. Hiring top notch administrators including Drs. Passerini and Sharpe, who are the Dean's of the Collins College of Professional Studies, and Tobin School of Business. I've been told that they are in a group of highly talented hires who would not have come to St. John's except for Gempeshaw's passion to improve academics.

2. Successful Initiatives to increase the Catholic student population of this Catholic university. We now draw large numbers of high performing catholic high school students from the best catholic hs in the area due to increased grants and scholarships. (St. Anthony's and Chaminade combine provide almost 50 freshmen each of the past few years.

3. Development and support of the St. John's institute for Catholic Schools, which provides collaborative guidance and participation of all 3 area Dioceses and whose 3 superintendents and auxiliary bishops are members.

4. Securing some willdly generous donations. Such as the $10 million recently donated by Bill and Leslie Collins. Recently feted 82 donors who have each in the aggregate donated $1 million

5. Been in full support of the Cragg and Anderson hires, the highest investments in those positions to date.

There is more, but attracting top academic talent while also educating students from disadvantaged economic backgrounds is not mutually exclusive. You can do both, and sju is doing that.

I'm just as proud of the facts facts that under Gempeshaw we have refocused our Catholic identity as a school, attracting top notch academic talent through scholarships, and graduating students who are being enabled to break the chains of multi-generational poverty.

If our rankings suffer as a result, I consider that a source of pride and not disappointment.[/quote]



Thanks very much for sharing your insight Beast. I did not know about a lot of the things you mentioned. I believe that President Gempesaw has the University headed in the right direction. I also believe that a successful basketball program will raise the number of applicants and make the admission process more competitive.[/quote]

Breh that’s crazy we can get 82 donors to give almost 1 million each but can’t get wider seats at Carneasca.
 
But to add to be beast point he’s right about the business school investment. The school just added two new MSF programs ( one CFA certified and one STEM designated) those are very expensive to create and I know for a fact that program is getting high level undergraduates. My sister currently a SJU student with a 3.6 GPA May take the program herself.
 
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[quote="Sju grad 13" post=366682]But to add to be beast point he’s right about the business school investment. The school just added two new MSF programs ( one CFA certified and one STEM designated) those are very expensive to create and I know for a fact that program is getting high level undergraduates. My sister currently a SJU student with a 3.6 GPA May take the program herself.[/quote]

Yes these are good things but nothing that will substantially change the reputation of the school as long as we keep enrolling a large percentage of bottom-half of their class and bottom-half SAT score students.
 
[quote="Proud Alumn" post=366764][quote="Sju grad 13" post=366682]But to add to be beast point he’s right about the business school investment. The school just added two new MSF programs ( one CFA certified and one STEM designated) those are very expensive to create and I know for a fact that program is getting high level undergraduates. My sister currently a SJU student with a 3.6 GPA May take the program herself.[/quote]

Yes these are good things but nothing that will substantially change the reputation of the school as long as we keep enrolling a large percentage of bottom-half of their class and bottom-half SAT score students.[/quote]

Reputation? Sorry but these rankings are by and large the product of a flawed system that allowed Northeastern to game the results without proportionately improving the quality of education.

The school is not very much worse or better than in the 70s where nearly any kid who could pay tuition would be admitted to certain colleges within the university.

Now some of those graduates from the 50s, 60s and 70s, became leaders of nys government, wall street, and billion dollar corporations.

If you are choosing a school for nm your kid, do your own homework, visit schools, inspect the quality of your kids chosen major at that school. A bunch if really really bright kids have done that and decided sju is the right place for them, above some highly ranked schools.

If you and I were in a debate, I would challenge you to name 3 substantive things beyond average sat score of the freshman class to differentiate sju from say syracuse, or marist, or even boston university for that matter.

You likely couldn't do it, because of your swipe at reputation, our pharmacy school students average above 1400 on the sat, which would get them into bc, Villanova, or holy cross. Jsj could tell you better, but we have an impressive number of Fulbright scholars. Jsj is the chair of the Tobin school of business and the improvement in that building alone are stunning. For years we maligned a certain large donor who quietly used his contacts at Goldman sachs to provide dozens of internships and ft positions for sju students.
 
Yes these are good things but nothing that will substantially change the reputation of the school as long as we keep enrolling a large percentage of bottom-half of their class and bottom-half SAT score students.[/quote]

Reputation? Sorry but these rankings are by and large the product of a flawed system that allowed Northeastern to game the results without proportionately improving the quality of education.

If you and I were in a debate, I would challenge you to name 3 substantive things beyond average sat score of the freshman class to differentiate sju from say syracuse, or marist, or even boston university for that matter.

You likely couldn't do it, because of your swipe at reputation, our pharmacy school students average above 1400 on the sat, which would get them into bc, Villanova, or holy cross. Jsj could tell you better, but we have an impressive number of Fulbright scholars. Jsj is the chair of the Tobin school of business and the improvement in that building alone are stunning. For years we maligned a certain large donor who quietly used his contacts at Goldman sachs to provide dozens of internships and ft positions for sju students.[/quote]

Your are throwing a lot on the wall there but nothing sticks. I’m not just talking about rankings. The school’s reputation is just not very good. In my industry within the world of finance, SJU grads just don’t get considered for the top level jobs at the top level firms. I would say that SJU grads probably struggle to get as much consideration as Pace grads. Every school has the occasional regular success story. That shouldn’t be our indicator of success. Getting the bulk of our grads opportunities for good to great jobs should be a goal.
Our pharmacy school students may have an average 1400 SAT score. Ok. Relative to other pharmacy schools in the country SJU is ranked in the bottom half. The school everyone points to as being such a standout is relatively bottom half.
I said from the beginning that SJU has thousands of good to great students. I think many of the high school students with elite grades who go to SJU do so with scholarship and financial considerations as a prominent factor. Which is terrific that SJU offers this type of assistance so students can attend. What isn’t wonderful are the far too many students with poor grades who still get in.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=366835][quote="Proud Alumn" post=366764][quote="Sju grad 13" post=366682]But to add to be beast point he’s right about the business school investment. The school just added two new MSF programs ( one CFA certified and one STEM designated) those are very expensive to create and I know for a fact that program is getting high level undergraduates. My sister currently a SJU student with a 3.6 GPA May take the program herself.[/quote]

Yes these are good things but nothing that will substantially change the reputation of the school as long as we keep enrolling a large percentage of bottom-half of their class and bottom-half SAT score students.[/quote]

Reputation? Sorry but these rankings are by and large the product of a flawed system that allowed Northeastern to game the results without proportionately improving the quality of education.

The school is not very much worse or better than in the 70s where nearly any kid who could pay tuition would be admitted to certain colleges within the university.

Now some of those graduates from the 50s, 60s and 70s, became leaders of nys government, wall street, and billion dollar corporations.

If you are choosing a school for nm your kid, do your own homework, visit schools, inspect the quality of your kids chosen major at that school. A bunch if really really bright kids have done that and decided sju is the right place for them, above some highly ranked schools.

If you and I were in a debate, I would challenge you to name 3 substantive things beyond average sat score of the freshman class to differentiate sju from say syracuse, or marist, or even boston university for that matter.

You likely couldn't do it, because of your swipe at reputation, our pharmacy school students average above 1400 on the sat, which would get them into bc, Villanova, or holy cross. Jsj could tell you better, but we have an impressive number of Fulbright scholars. Jsj is the chair of the Tobin school of business and the improvement in that building alone are stunning. For years we maligned a certain large donor who quietly used his contacts at Goldman sachs to provide dozens of internships and ft positions for sju students.[/quote]

BC, Villanova, and Holy Cross do not have pharmacy schools. ;)
(Very good points overall, though.)
 
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