St John’s Hiring Pause & Budget Challenges
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JohnnyFever
Active member
I feel that the school's mission to serve the underprivileged will lead to more of this...probably more so than other schools. It's a great mission of course, but financially it will hold the university back I would think. Wouldn't having to give tons of scholarship $ and grants mean that the university is making much less? Again, I'm no expert so feel free to correct me but just seems logical. If you really make it your major mission to target students from families that may not have the means to pay the tuition while other private schools don't have that as their central mission, you're spending more money and making less as a university, no?
Gempesaw Is playing the hand dealt to him.
He inherited a mess from “Suits” Harrington which has been complicated by Excelsior Scholarships to SUNY and CUNY schools, escalating health costs, declining Catholic High School enrollment, and other factors.
He inherited a mess from “Suits” Harrington which has been complicated by Excelsior Scholarships to SUNY and CUNY schools, escalating health costs, declining Catholic High School enrollment, and other factors.
As much as everyone says college is harder to get into today the reality is that outside of the most competitive schools there is a fight for students. Unfortunately St. John’s doesn’t have the endowment to support the amount of Financial Aid for those students in need as well as the many merit scholarships it has to give out to keep the school attractive to those that can pay by bringing in stronger academic students.
MarkRedman
Well-known member
[quote="Adam" post=365721]Aren't some public NYC colleges "free" now? St. John's mission of providing financial support might not be feasible (or needed) moving forward.[/quote]
Every branch of the public NYC colleges (also known as CUNY) was tuition free when I graduated from high school in the 60's.
Believe it or not, it was easier to be admitted into St John's than Queensborough Community College back then.
Every branch of the public NYC colleges (also known as CUNY) was tuition free when I graduated from high school in the 60's.
Believe it or not, it was easier to be admitted into St John's than Queensborough Community College back then.
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jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
[quote="Adam" post=365721]Aren't some public NYC colleges "free" now? St. John's mission of providing financial support might not be feasible (or needed) moving forward.[/quote]
New York State's Excelsior Scholarship provides in-state, public college tuition for residents whose families earn below a set annual income cap: $100,000 in 2017. This amounts to an annual savings between $4,000 and $6,500, depending on whether the student attends a community college or a four-year school. As the scholarship only covers tuition, students bear the additional cost of fees and room and board, which can cost up to $14,000 annually. To maintain the scholarship, Excelsior students must maintain 30 annual class credits at a state college: State University of New York (SUNY) or City University of New York (CUNY).[2] There will also be a GPA requirement.[3] After graduation, Excelsior students must live and work in New York for as many years as they received the scholarship.[2]
The annual income cap will increase as the Excelsior program is phased in (to $110,000 in 2018, and $125,000 in 2019). By the time the program is fully implemented, an estimated 200,000 will be eligible.[2]
New York State's Excelsior Scholarship provides in-state, public college tuition for residents whose families earn below a set annual income cap: $100,000 in 2017. This amounts to an annual savings between $4,000 and $6,500, depending on whether the student attends a community college or a four-year school. As the scholarship only covers tuition, students bear the additional cost of fees and room and board, which can cost up to $14,000 annually. To maintain the scholarship, Excelsior students must maintain 30 annual class credits at a state college: State University of New York (SUNY) or City University of New York (CUNY).[2] There will also be a GPA requirement.[3] After graduation, Excelsior students must live and work in New York for as many years as they received the scholarship.[2]
The annual income cap will increase as the Excelsior program is phased in (to $110,000 in 2018, and $125,000 in 2019). By the time the program is fully implemented, an estimated 200,000 will be eligible.[2]
MarkRedman
Well-known member
[quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=365730][quote="Adam" post=365721]Aren't some public NYC colleges "free" now? St. John's mission of providing financial support might not be feasible (or needed) moving forward.[/quote]
New York State's Excelsior Scholarship provides in-state, public college tuition for residents whose families earn below a set annual income cap: $100,000 in 2017. This amounts to an annual savings between $4,000 and $6,500, depending on whether the student attends a community college or a four-year school. As the scholarship only covers tuition, students bear the additional cost of fees and room and board, which can cost up to $14,000 annually. To maintain the scholarship, Excelsior students must maintain 30 annual class credits at a state college: State University of New York (SUNY) or City University of New York (CUNY).[2] There will also be a GPA requirement.[3] After graduation, Excelsior students must live and work in New York for as many years as they received the scholarship.[2]
The annual income cap will increase as the Excelsior program is phased in (to $110,000 in 2018, and $125,000 in 2019). By the time the program is fully implemented, an estimated 200,000 will be eligible.[2][/quote]
I am all for providing financially disadvantaged students with the assistance that they need in order to have access to a post secondary education.
However, if they are using "public" money to do so, these students should be held accountable for maintaining a GPA of at least 2.0 and making satisfactory progress toward earning a degree in order to receive these monies each year.
Is that the case? If not, it should be. My kids are in their 40's so I am not aware of current practices.
New York State's Excelsior Scholarship provides in-state, public college tuition for residents whose families earn below a set annual income cap: $100,000 in 2017. This amounts to an annual savings between $4,000 and $6,500, depending on whether the student attends a community college or a four-year school. As the scholarship only covers tuition, students bear the additional cost of fees and room and board, which can cost up to $14,000 annually. To maintain the scholarship, Excelsior students must maintain 30 annual class credits at a state college: State University of New York (SUNY) or City University of New York (CUNY).[2] There will also be a GPA requirement.[3] After graduation, Excelsior students must live and work in New York for as many years as they received the scholarship.[2]
The annual income cap will increase as the Excelsior program is phased in (to $110,000 in 2018, and $125,000 in 2019). By the time the program is fully implemented, an estimated 200,000 will be eligible.[2][/quote]
I am all for providing financially disadvantaged students with the assistance that they need in order to have access to a post secondary education.
However, if they are using "public" money to do so, these students should be held accountable for maintaining a GPA of at least 2.0 and making satisfactory progress toward earning a degree in order to receive these monies each year.
Is that the case? If not, it should be. My kids are in their 40's so I am not aware of current practices.
For some students who want to live at home St. John’s can be a cheaper option even with the Excelsior scholarship. On another note my wife is in a FB group for parents of kids applying to college and about an hour ago one mother posted waiting on St. John’s is killing me.
SJU Double Alumn
Member
I have been saying for years that St. John's needs to re-interpret its mission. It needs to right-size the school to have a smaller student body with better academic credentials, mainly by raising the floor. There are thousands of very-good students at St. Johns, as good as most schools out there, but the school fails them by also accepting hundreds of students that are not strong enough academically. This drags down the reputation of the school and lessens the opportunities for those graduates that are top students. Approximately 25% of the class are in the bottom half of their high schools. Almost 1 in 4 students are below-B students in high school. You should have to at least pull Bs to have a good chance to get into a top-level college. Not St. John's. Almost 25% of the class is also in the bottom half of SAT scores.
I would love to see St. John's get rid of the Staten Island campus, and get rid of any duplicative programs in CPS. CPS shouldn't have an English curriculum or Business Management curriculum when we have a liberal arts school and a business school already.
Poor families already have options that are probably better for them than St. John's- SUNY and CUNY. St. John's should focus on giving opportunities to the middle class who don't have the means for the Ivy League or are just solid B or B+ students and would benefit from a top private university education. Improve the academic reputation of the school. Downsize, have 2,000 or less entering classes, and be smaller and stronger rather than larger and open-door and weaker.
I would love to see St. John's get rid of the Staten Island campus, and get rid of any duplicative programs in CPS. CPS shouldn't have an English curriculum or Business Management curriculum when we have a liberal arts school and a business school already.
Poor families already have options that are probably better for them than St. John's- SUNY and CUNY. St. John's should focus on giving opportunities to the middle class who don't have the means for the Ivy League or are just solid B or B+ students and would benefit from a top private university education. Improve the academic reputation of the school. Downsize, have 2,000 or less entering classes, and be smaller and stronger rather than larger and open-door and weaker.
[quote="Proud Alumn" post=366121]I have been saying for years that St. John's needs to re-interpret its mission. It needs to right-size the school to have a smaller student body with better academic credentials, mainly by raising the floor. There are thousands of very-good students at St. Johns, as good as most schools out there, but the school fails them by also accepting hundreds of students that are not strong enough academically. This drags down the reputation of the school and lessens the opportunities for those graduates that are top students. Approximately 25% of the class are in the bottom half of their high schools. Almost 1 in 4 students are below-B students in high school. You should have to at least pull Bs to have a good chance to get into a top-level college. Not St. John's. Almost 25% of the class is also in the bottom half of SAT scores.
I would love to see St. John's get rid of the Staten Island campus, and get rid of any duplicative programs in CPS. CPS shouldn't have an English curriculum or Business Management curriculum when we have a liberal arts school and a business school already.
Poor families already have options that are probably better for them than St. John's- SUNY and CUNY. St. John's should focus on giving opportunities to the middle class who don't have the means for the Ivy League or are just solid B or B+ students and would benefit from a top private university education. Improve the academic reputation of the school. Downsize, have 2,000 or less entering classes, and be smaller and stronger rather than larger and open-door and weaker.[/quote]
Could it be that some families view St. John’s as also having value for their first member in college child in terms of faith and culture?
I would love to see St. John's get rid of the Staten Island campus, and get rid of any duplicative programs in CPS. CPS shouldn't have an English curriculum or Business Management curriculum when we have a liberal arts school and a business school already.
Poor families already have options that are probably better for them than St. John's- SUNY and CUNY. St. John's should focus on giving opportunities to the middle class who don't have the means for the Ivy League or are just solid B or B+ students and would benefit from a top private university education. Improve the academic reputation of the school. Downsize, have 2,000 or less entering classes, and be smaller and stronger rather than larger and open-door and weaker.[/quote]
Could it be that some families view St. John’s as also having value for their first member in college child in terms of faith and culture?
JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="Proud Alumn" post=366121]I have been saying for years that St. John's needs to re-interpret its mission. It needs to right-size the school to have a smaller student body with better academic credentials, mainly by raising the floor. There are thousands of very-good students at St. Johns, as good as most schools out there, but the school fails them by also accepting hundreds of students that are not strong enough academically. This drags down the reputation of the school and lessens the opportunities for those graduates that are top students. Approximately 25% of the class are in the bottom half of their high schools. Almost 1 in 4 students are below-B students in high school. You should have to at least pull Bs to have a good chance to get into a top-level college. Not St. John's. Almost 25% of the class is also in the bottom half of SAT scores.
I would love to see St. John's get rid of the Staten Island campus, and get rid of any duplicative programs in CPS. CPS shouldn't have an English curriculum or Business Management curriculum when we have a liberal arts school and a business school already.
Poor families already have options that are probably better for them than St. John's- SUNY and CUNY. St. John's should focus on giving opportunities to the middle class who don't have the means for the Ivy League or are just solid B or B+ students and would benefit from a top private university education. Improve the academic reputation of the school. Downsize, have 2,000 or less entering classes, and be smaller and stronger rather than larger and open-door and weaker.[/quote]
Agreed...in this highly PC culture you have to gulp before saying this kind of thing, but it's true IMO. You have to evolve if you want to stay competitive. I'm far from Einstein trust me, but the reaction I get from people when I tell them I went to Marist for undergrad is mostly, "wow, great school". When they ask where I went for grad school and I tell them St. John's, I get mostly "oh cool" or "nice I know someone who went there". If I applied to Marist today I highly doubt I get in. It's not Harvard by any means or even Villanova but it's rock solid. Alums are proud of that and many donate as a result. St. John's needs to get much more competitive before people say the same things about us as they do Marist. You can't do that by accepting students with poor GPA's and test scores. Not saying 4.0's but you have to have real standards if you want to climb rankings and get prestige.
I would love to see St. John's get rid of the Staten Island campus, and get rid of any duplicative programs in CPS. CPS shouldn't have an English curriculum or Business Management curriculum when we have a liberal arts school and a business school already.
Poor families already have options that are probably better for them than St. John's- SUNY and CUNY. St. John's should focus on giving opportunities to the middle class who don't have the means for the Ivy League or are just solid B or B+ students and would benefit from a top private university education. Improve the academic reputation of the school. Downsize, have 2,000 or less entering classes, and be smaller and stronger rather than larger and open-door and weaker.[/quote]
Agreed...in this highly PC culture you have to gulp before saying this kind of thing, but it's true IMO. You have to evolve if you want to stay competitive. I'm far from Einstein trust me, but the reaction I get from people when I tell them I went to Marist for undergrad is mostly, "wow, great school". When they ask where I went for grad school and I tell them St. John's, I get mostly "oh cool" or "nice I know someone who went there". If I applied to Marist today I highly doubt I get in. It's not Harvard by any means or even Villanova but it's rock solid. Alums are proud of that and many donate as a result. St. John's needs to get much more competitive before people say the same things about us as they do Marist. You can't do that by accepting students with poor GPA's and test scores. Not saying 4.0's but you have to have real standards if you want to climb rankings and get prestige.
SJU Double Alumn
Member
fuchsia- that is fine if the children are good, hard working students with good grades. If they are C students, then the parents can look to St Francis College or Manhattan College or Molloy College or other Catholic colleges. That is the way it should be if we want there to be deserving opportunities for St John’s graduates.
I hear that St. Johns is suffering because of its mission to serve the underpriviliged and that 25% of incoming freshman have low grades and SAT scores. The way it is written is as if there is a correlation between the two. Does anyone really know who the underperforming 25% are. Could they possibly be Catholic High School graduates who were not able to get into Villanova, Notre Dame, or Georgetown because of their GPA's and test scores but their parents could afford to send them to St Johns.
This is a perfect example of class bias. They do no not have the same benefits as me so they can't be as good as me. We need to gather information, stop, and think before making generalizations and coming to conclusions about what the problem is.
This is a perfect example of class bias. They do no not have the same benefits as me so they can't be as good as me. We need to gather information, stop, and think before making generalizations and coming to conclusions about what the problem is.