Skills for Life

So of course, the blame is 100% on the adult, Rysheed Jordan. Lavin and staff had a window of opportunity to make an actual difference in this kids life, and they didn't. He needed to get his ass kicked on the court by better players and instead he was brought in as a savior for the program. He needed to stay away from Philly, and nobody stopped him. He needed structure and discipline, he got neither. Lavin didn't pull the trigger on the gun last week, but he sure as hell blew his chance to change a life. Referencing Harrison, the tournament, "better than Norm", or former Sweet 16 coach is all BS. I still can't believe I read things like "well, he made the tourney so he should have kept his job" ...based on what? Getting trounced in the first round? lack of roster planning and recruiting? more interest in social creds than on-the-court creds? Showing a pattern of poor in-game coaching and lack of game plans? He was a joke folks, a complete joke, and that's not what Rysheed Jordan needed.

Best post I have read tonight.
In 1982 I had to take evening summer courses at SJU. Every night before class I saw Ron Rutledge walking with a tall young man who looked very out of place to class. When class was over there was Ron Rutledge again waiting for this young man. After a few weeks I went over to Ron and asked him who the young man was. He said his name was Walter Berry.
Having followed high school basketball I knew who Walter was. Difference was Rysheed was ranked much higher than Berry coming out of high school, Rysheed was eligible and all they had to do was keep him eligible while Berry was not eligible. Staff put in two summers and a full year at SJU in an attempt to get Walter eligible, which unfortunately did not materialize, but they certainly put in the effort. Success just does not come about it is a result of consistent hard work. Now you can call it babysitting or anything else you choose but boy did that staff work hard to recruit, keep, get eligible and rerecruit Walter while having Mullin, Wennington, Jackson, Glass ,Jones etc on the team. They were going to be good without Walter and were great with him.
The staff wasn't stuffing their faces with pizza and wings, banging every Ho available and taking selfies at trendy restaurants. They cared about their players and went out of their way to make these kids productive citizens.
Like every other kid Rysheed needed love and discipline. Staff didn't have to give him love but certainly had to give him discipline and there they failed miserably.
1 of 7 kids with no father and a sick mother, growing up in abject poverty all the while being told you are great and will make millions. This kid had no chance on his own without strong guidance. Our shameless self- promoter had a chance to do something very special with this kid, the highest ranking recruit he got to SJU, but that entailed work, a concept that is foreign to Steve Lavin.[/quote]


This post is so abject over the top it's a joke right? Tell me it's a joke.
 
With a Jordan thread already created, I immediately thought this was a Jarvis thread. Maybe a way to compare a couple of our recent coaches who overlooked character flaws.

But when I saw it was another Jordan and Lavin related thread, I figured it was just as well.

Personally, no matter how much Lavin deserved to be fired, he still won't reach the level of pure disdain as Jarvis.

Heck, I sided with team Captain America simply because the name of Ironman's talking computer/assistant is Jarvis.

Actually this is the original Jordan thread, not "another" Jordan thread. The other Jordan thread is the "another" Jordan thread, this thread being the "original" Jordan thread. What happened was that I reported this important story (or "scoop") first, which BEB exclusive was then copied (or "stolen") by another[strike] Redman come lately[/strike] Johnnie come lately looking to cover himself in my glory. Sort of a Stephen Glass situation except the facts aren't made up and nobody got a Pulitzer. The time stamp tells the story. If I were the litigious sort I'd sue for violation of my patent rights ® but will take to my grave the satisfaction of winning the race to bring this important story to public purview.

It is true though that I sought to draw an analogy between the Jarvae and Lavin. There are strong similarities between them - and not just that they have both blocked me on Twitter. The chief one - the one that makes them both so very very repulsive - is their sanctimony: both portray themselves as educators and builders of men to whom character - their own and their student athletes - is paramount. Whereas both are in fact petty little snake oil salesmen who anoint themselves righteous and use their presumed goodness as an excuse for their own moral and professional failings. Lavin raised to an art form shielding of himself from culpability, wheedling for sympathy when times were bad and taking credit for his player's successes - as few and far between as they were - when times were good. If Jordan had gone on to become an NBA player he would have been Lavin's guy. Now he'll be just another troubled kid that Lavin just couldn't get through to gosh darn it, despite his best intentions and efforts. Maybe he'll even tweet about it. If only I could have reached Rysheed like I reached D'angelo, hashtag tough love hashtag SJUBB. Whereas he was the enabler in chief, looking the other way as the kid's life turned to excrement because he was coaching for a contract and ultimately his career.


Wow Fun you have your "Ace in the Hole"
 
And, I don't think you're giving sju fans enough credit.

Had Lavin tossed Jordan off the team, and given his minutes to Phil Greene and Jamal Branch... two guys who never complained about their situation, never got into it on the court ... just played ball and went to school:

Would we have lost a few more games? Probably. Been more at risk on the bubble? Yea. But (most) sju fans wouldn't have killed Lavin for it. They'd have been pissed at RJ for blowing it for his teammates.

Exactly, worlds biggest hypocrite is and was Steve I Have no Shame Lavin. Jamel Branch who was a great kid and super student was pulled off the court every time he made a mistake while Jordan was permitted to go awol and start. What a farce. Lavin screwed Branch over , like he screwed over Félix. But Branch being the gentleman and great kid that he is never complained publicly out of fear of reprisal from the so called coach. Branch deserved much better and we
would have been abetter team with Branch playing and recruiting a proper pg for 2015.

If this was CYO or something yeah reward the good kid and punish the bad kid. No coach fighting for his job would play Branch over Jordan under any circumstance. I don't disagree about hypocrite part but more coaches are than aren't
 
I like Steve Lavin and thought he did some good things while he was here at SJU.

Had the TV Announcer done more "good things" at StJohn's then he likely would have been hired by UNLV, SanFrancisco, or one of the other college coaching positions news reports have linked his name to.
 
I like Steve Lavin and thought he did some good things while he was here at SJU.

Had the TV Announcer done more "good things" at StJohn's then he likely would have been hired by UNLV, SanFrancisco, or one of the other college coaching positions news reports have linked his name to.

I'm not certain but would think his current contract would require payback if he took another coaching job so he couldn't double dip. He may coach again. A lot of people around the country felt Lavin did a credible job at SJU. My guess is that if he wants to coach again, he will at some level.
 
I like Steve Lavin and thought he did some good things while he was here at SJU.

Had the TV Announcer done more "good things" at StJohn's then he likely would have been hired by UNLV, SanFrancisco, or one of the other college coaching positions news reports have linked his name to.

I'm not certain but would think his current contract would require payback if he took another coaching job so he couldn't double dip. He may coach again. A lot of people around the country felt Lavin did a credible job at SJU. My guess is that if he wants to coach again, he will at some level.

His contract at SJU only had one year left when his time came to an end. He should be free to do anything now.
 
I like Steve Lavin and thought he did some good things while he was here at SJU.

Had the TV Announcer done more "good things" at StJohn's then he likely would have been hired by UNLV, SanFrancisco, or one of the other college coaching positions news reports have linked his name to.

I'm not certain but would think his current contract would require payback if he took another coaching job so he couldn't double dip. He may coach again. A lot of people around the country felt Lavin did a credible job at SJU. My guess is that if he wants to coach again, he will at some level.

His contract at SJU only had one year left when his time came to an end. He should be free to do anything now.

Very likely. I think with what he earns in the booth, if he wants to coach again he will wait for the right opportunity.
 
And, I don't think you're giving sju fans enough credit.

Had Lavin tossed Jordan off the team, and given his minutes to Phil Greene and Jamal Branch... two guys who never complained about their situation, never got into it on the court ... just played ball and went to school:

Would we have lost a few more games? Probably. Been more at risk on the bubble? Yea. But (most) sju fans wouldn't have killed Lavin for it. They'd have been pissed at RJ for blowing it for his teammates.

If Jordan got tossed off the team a year ago by Lavin and got arrested today, most of the same blamers would blame Lavin again for not helping out a disadvantaged kid and pitching him once he didn't fit in here.

Beast, I don't blame Lavin for what Jordan has done. That's all on Rysheed.
Did Lavin help the situation by letting him continually slide bye? No. But, in fairness he was hardly the only one enabling this young man. Jordan made the decision to carry a gun, rob someone, and fire the weapon.
That's not Lavins fault.

But I do blame him for bringing in too many players who didn't deserve a scholarship from St Johns. We don't have to be holier than thou. I know basketball players are no angels most of the time.
But he brought in too many kids with asteriks, and whom other coaches shied away from for reasons other than basketball.

Who were those problems other than Jordan? CO turned out to be a nut, but did he have that rep coming in? Nurideen Lindsay had broken Chamberlains scoring records at his HS (Overbrook?).

For the most part, you guys are all full of beans in every criticism of Lavin EXCEPT that he didn't win enough. You can list a litany of his so called transgressions, but had we gotten deep into the NCAAs once or twice or more, you'd all be singing his praises.

Don't get me wrong. He deserved to get fired - not for anything you guys list, but simply for not winning enough. The rest is all speculative.
 
I like Steve Lavin and thought he did some good things while he was here at SJU.

Had the TV Announcer done more "good things" at StJohn's then he likely would have been hired by UNLV, SanFrancisco, or one of the other college coaching positions news reports have linked his name to.

I disagree. I like Steve Lavin and thought he did some good things while he was here at SJU.
 
And, I don't think you're giving sju fans enough credit.

Had Lavin tossed Jordan off the team, and given his minutes to Phil Greene and Jamal Branch... two guys who never complained about their situation, never got into it on the court ... just played ball and went to school:

Would we have lost a few more games? Probably. Been more at risk on the bubble? Yea. But (most) sju fans wouldn't have killed Lavin for it. They'd have been pissed at RJ for blowing it for his teammates.

If Jordan got tossed off the team a year ago by Lavin and got arrested today, most of the same blamers would blame Lavin again for not helping out a disadvantaged kid and pitching him once he didn't fit in here.

Beast, I don't blame Lavin for what Jordan has done. That's all on Rysheed.
Did Lavin help the situation by letting him continually slide bye? No. But, in fairness he was hardly the only one enabling this young man. Jordan made the decision to carry a gun, rob someone, and fire the weapon.
That's not Lavins fault.

But I do blame him for bringing in too many players who didn't deserve a scholarship from St Johns. We don't have to be holier than thou. I know basketball players are no angels most of the time.
But he brought in too many kids with asteriks, and whom other coaches shied away from for reasons other than basketball.

Who were those problems other than Jordan? CO turned out to be a nut, but did he have that rep coming in? Nurideen Lindsay had broken Chamberlains scoring records at his HS (Overbrook?).

For the most part, you guys are all full of beans in every criticism of Lavin EXCEPT that he didn't win enough. You can list a litany of his so called transgressions, but had we gotten deep into the NCAAs once or twice or more, you'd all be singing his praises.

Don't get me wrong. He deserved to get fired - not for anything you guys list, but simply for not winning enough. The rest is all speculative.

So what you're saying is that when he got here he was normal, and after 3 years with Lavin he became a complete nut ;)
 
And, I don't think you're giving sju fans enough credit.

Had Lavin tossed Jordan off the team, and given his minutes to Phil Greene and Jamal Branch... two guys who never complained about their situation, never got into it on the court ... just played ball and went to school:

Would we have lost a few more games? Probably. Been more at risk on the bubble? Yea. But (most) sju fans wouldn't have killed Lavin for it. They'd have been pissed at RJ for blowing it for his teammates.

If Jordan got tossed off the team a year ago by Lavin and got arrested today, most of the same blamers would blame Lavin again for not helping out a disadvantaged kid and pitching him once he didn't fit in here.

Beast, I don't blame Lavin for what Jordan has done. That's all on Rysheed.
Did Lavin help the situation by letting him continually slide bye? No. But, in fairness he was hardly the only one enabling this young man. Jordan made the decision to carry a gun, rob someone, and fire the weapon.
That's not Lavins fault.

But I do blame him for bringing in too many players who didn't deserve a scholarship from St Johns. We don't have to be holier than thou. I know basketball players are no angels most of the time.
But he brought in too many kids with asteriks, and whom other coaches shied away from for reasons other than basketball.

Who were those problems other than Jordan? CO turned out to be a nut, but did he have that rep coming in? Nurideen Lindsay had broken Chamberlains scoring records at his HS (Overbrook?).

For the most part, you guys are all full of beans in every criticism of Lavin EXCEPT that he didn't win enough. You can list a litany of his so called transgressions, but had we gotten deep into the NCAAs once or twice or more, you'd all be singing his praises.

Don't get me wrong. He deserved to get fired - not for anything you guys list, but simply for not winning enough. The rest is all speculative.

So what you're saying is that when he got here he was normal, and after 3 years with Lavin he became a complete nut ;)

What I'm saying is basketball recruits are like a box of chocolates....

On a serious note, though, Press Maravich, Pete's dad, developed a textbook for psychological profiling potential recruits for their capacity to adapt to and excel in college basketball. It was used for decades as a blueprint to assess players recruited by many coaches.

In today's environment, to try to compete among the elite programs that have the luxury of rejecting enormously gifted athletes who come with some baggage (academic questions, brushes with the law, etc) the next tier of schools and below are forced to take a risk on those kids to try to compete athletically in programs where winning means millions of dollars in tv money, tournament appearances, enrollment, sponsorships, etc. The more successful a program becomes, the more risk averse it can be. Even programs like Duke though can experience a problem like Rasheed Sulaimon's sexual assault charge - he was not so promptly dismissed from the program. Even then, Sulaimon's family felt he was hung out to dry on an unsubstantiated allegation - sound familiar with the utterance of Duke University?

Bottom line is that as you win more, you can move away from shaky recruits into the same blue chip cleaner slates that the big boys go after. It's not a perfect science, but it is clear the Lavin didn't move the needle fast enough in building a winning program for whatever reasons. For all of the deserved enthusiasm about Mullin, until we win a few games, all the accolades of him doing a great job so far are simply hopeful rants.
 
And, I don't think you're giving sju fans enough credit.

Had Lavin tossed Jordan off the team, and given his minutes to Phil Greene and Jamal Branch... two guys who never complained about their situation, never got into it on the court ... just played ball and went to school:

Would we have lost a few more games? Probably. Been more at risk on the bubble? Yea. But (most) sju fans wouldn't have killed Lavin for it. They'd have been pissed at RJ for blowing it for his teammates.

If Jordan got tossed off the team a year ago by Lavin and got arrested today, most of the same blamers would blame Lavin again for not helping out a disadvantaged kid and pitching him once he didn't fit in here.

Beast, I don't blame Lavin for what Jordan has done. That's all on Rysheed.
Did Lavin help the situation by letting him continually slide bye? No. But, in fairness he was hardly the only one enabling this young man. Jordan made the decision to carry a gun, rob someone, and fire the weapon.
That's not Lavins fault.

But I do blame him for bringing in too many players who didn't deserve a scholarship from St Johns. We don't have to be holier than thou. I know basketball players are no angels most of the time.
But he brought in too many kids with asteriks, and whom other coaches shied away from for reasons other than basketball.

Who were those problems other than Jordan? CO turned out to be a nut, but did he have that rep coming in? Nurideen Lindsay had broken Chamberlains scoring records at his HS (Overbrook?).

For the most part, you guys are all full of beans in every criticism of Lavin EXCEPT that he didn't win enough. You can list a litany of his so called transgressions, but had we gotten deep into the NCAAs once or twice or more, you'd all be singing his praises.

Don't get me wrong. He deserved to get fired - not for anything you guys list, but simply for not winning enough. The rest is all speculative.

So what you're saying is that when he got here he was normal, and after 3 years with Lavin he became a complete nut ;)

What I'm saying is basketball recruits are like a box of chocolates....

On a serious note, though, Press Maravich, Pete's dad, developed a textbook for psychological profiling potential recruits for their capacity to adapt to and excel in college basketball. It was used for decades as a blueprint to assess players recruited by many coaches.

In today's environment, to try to compete among the elite programs that have the luxury of rejecting enormously gifted athletes who come with some baggage (academic questions, brushes with the law, etc) the next tier of schools and below are forced to take a risk on those kids to try to compete athletically in programs where winning means millions of dollars in tv money, tournament appearances, enrollment, sponsorships, etc. The more successful a program becomes, the more risk averse it can be. Even programs like Duke though can experience a problem like Rasheed Sulaimon's sexual assault charge - he was not so promptly dismissed from the program. Even then, Sulaimon's family felt he was hung out to dry on an unsubstantiated allegation - sound familiar with the utterance of Duke University?

Bottom line is that as you win more, you can move away from shaky recruits into the same blue chip cleaner slates that the big boys go after. It's not a perfect science, but it is clear the Lavin didn't move the needle fast enough in building a winning program for whatever reasons. For all of the deserved enthusiasm about Mullin, until we win a few games, all the accolades of him doing a great job so far are simply hopeful rants.

Again, I had no problem with Lavin going after Jordan. But lets face facts, Jordan by all accounts was a problem from the time he set foot on campus. He came as advertised. It was Lavin's lack of a back-up plan(s) which resulted in his having to tolerate Jordan's antics, which is what most of us had a problem with. There is absolutely no reason why Lavin couldn't have had a roster similar to the one we have coming in next year; deep and well balanced. Had he done so, he would have had the option of showing some tough-love to Jordan. Not saying it would have made a difference in Jordan's behavior, but no one player is more important than the team. As for CM, ultimately a coach is judged on his won-loss record. I am as enthusiastic as anyone about what the staff has accomplished so far off the court. Time will tell is if translates to success on the court.
 
And, I don't think you're giving sju fans enough credit.

Had Lavin tossed Jordan off the team, and given his minutes to Phil Greene and Jamal Branch... two guys who never complained about their situation, never got into it on the court ... just played ball and went to school:

Would we have lost a few more games? Probably. Been more at risk on the bubble? Yea. But (most) sju fans wouldn't have killed Lavin for it. They'd have been pissed at RJ for blowing it for his teammates.

If Jordan got tossed off the team a year ago by Lavin and got arrested today, most of the same blamers would blame Lavin again for not helping out a disadvantaged kid and pitching him once he didn't fit in here.

Beast, I don't blame Lavin for what Jordan has done. That's all on Rysheed.
Did Lavin help the situation by letting him continually slide bye? No. But, in fairness he was hardly the only one enabling this young man. Jordan made the decision to carry a gun, rob someone, and fire the weapon.
That's not Lavins fault.

But I do blame him for bringing in too many players who didn't deserve a scholarship from St Johns. We don't have to be holier than thou. I know basketball players are no angels most of the time.
But he brought in too many kids with asteriks, and whom other coaches shied away from for reasons other than basketball.

Who were those problems other than Jordan? CO turned out to be a nut, but did he have that rep coming in? Nurideen Lindsay had broken Chamberlains scoring records at his HS (Overbrook?).

For the most part, you guys are all full of beans in every criticism of Lavin EXCEPT that he didn't win enough. You can list a litany of his so called transgressions, but had we gotten deep into the NCAAs once or twice or more, you'd all be singing his praises.

Don't get me wrong. He deserved to get fired - not for anything you guys list, but simply for not winning enough. The rest is all speculative.

So what you're saying is that when he got here he was normal, and after 3 years with Lavin he became a complete nut ;)

What I'm saying is basketball recruits are like a box of chocolates....

On a serious note, though, Press Maravich, Pete's dad, developed a textbook for psychological profiling potential recruits for their capacity to adapt to and excel in college basketball. It was used for decades as a blueprint to assess players recruited by many coaches.

In today's environment, to try to compete among the elite programs that have the luxury of rejecting enormously gifted athletes who come with some baggage (academic questions, brushes with the law, etc) the next tier of schools and below are forced to take a risk on those kids to try to compete athletically in programs where winning means millions of dollars in tv money, tournament appearances, enrollment, sponsorships, etc. The more successful a program becomes, the more risk averse it can be. Even programs like Duke though can experience a problem like Rasheed Sulaimon's sexual assault charge - he was not so promptly dismissed from the program. Even then, Sulaimon's family felt he was hung out to dry on an unsubstantiated allegation - sound familiar with the utterance of Duke University?

Bottom line is that as you win more, you can move away from shaky recruits into the same blue chip cleaner slates that the big boys go after. It's not a perfect science, but it is clear the Lavin didn't move the needle fast enough in building a winning program for whatever reasons. For all of the deserved enthusiasm about Mullin, until we win a few games, all the accolades of him doing a great job so far are simply hopeful rants.

The difference is Mullin has given us legitimate reasons to be hopeful, your guy gave us nothing but a BS con job after an initial burst that bought him his years to sit and do nothing while pocketing a hefty paycheck. If Mullin fails it will not be for lack of effort as it was with Lavin. Lavin's problem was not that he "didn't move the needle fast enough", that is complete nonsense; it's that his years of doing nothing caught up with him and his cupboard was completely bare except for a couple of head cases. A situation Mullin and co. had the balls to face and endure last season while working their collective asses off to reverse. Your revisionist history and rationalizations about Lavin are almost as good a con as he pulled off.
 
And, I don't think you're giving sju fans enough credit.

Had Lavin tossed Jordan off the team, and given his minutes to Phil Greene and Jamal Branch... two guys who never complained about their situation, never got into it on the court ... just played ball and went to school:

Would we have lost a few more games? Probably. Been more at risk on the bubble? Yea. But (most) sju fans wouldn't have killed Lavin for it. They'd have been pissed at RJ for blowing it for his teammates.

If Jordan got tossed off the team a year ago by Lavin and got arrested today, most of the same blamers would blame Lavin again for not helping out a disadvantaged kid and pitching him once he didn't fit in here.

Beast, I don't blame Lavin for what Jordan has done. That's all on Rysheed.
Did Lavin help the situation by letting him continually slide bye? No. But, in fairness he was hardly the only one enabling this young man. Jordan made the decision to carry a gun, rob someone, and fire the weapon.
That's not Lavins fault.

But I do blame him for bringing in too many players who didn't deserve a scholarship from St Johns. We don't have to be holier than thou. I know basketball players are no angels most of the time.
But he brought in too many kids with asteriks, and whom other coaches shied away from for reasons other than basketball.

Who were those problems other than Jordan? CO turned out to be a nut, but did he have that rep coming in? Nurideen Lindsay had broken Chamberlains scoring records at his HS (Overbrook?).

For the most part, you guys are all full of beans in every criticism of Lavin EXCEPT that he didn't win enough. You can list a litany of his so called transgressions, but had we gotten deep into the NCAAs once or twice or more, you'd all be singing his praises.

Don't get me wrong. He deserved to get fired - not for anything you guys list, but simply for not winning enough. The rest is all speculative.

So what you're saying is that when he got here he was normal, and after 3 years with Lavin he became a complete nut ;)

What I'm saying is basketball recruits are like a box of chocolates....

On a serious note, though, Press Maravich, Pete's dad, developed a textbook for psychological profiling potential recruits for their capacity to adapt to and excel in college basketball. It was used for decades as a blueprint to assess players recruited by many coaches.

In today's environment, to try to compete among the elite programs that have the luxury of rejecting enormously gifted athletes who come with some baggage (academic questions, brushes with the law, etc) the next tier of schools and below are forced to take a risk on those kids to try to compete athletically in programs where winning means millions of dollars in tv money, tournament appearances, enrollment, sponsorships, etc. The more successful a program becomes, the more risk averse it can be. Even programs like Duke though can experience a problem like Rasheed Sulaimon's sexual assault charge - he was not so promptly dismissed from the program. Even then, Sulaimon's family felt he was hung out to dry on an unsubstantiated allegation - sound familiar with the utterance of Duke University?

Bottom line is that as you win more, you can move away from shaky recruits into the same blue chip cleaner slates that the big boys go after. It's not a perfect science, but it is clear the Lavin didn't move the needle fast enough in building a winning program for whatever reasons. For all of the deserved enthusiasm about Mullin, until we win a few games, all the accolades of him doing a great job so far are simply hopeful rants.

The difference is Mullin has given us legitimate reasons to be hopeful, your guy gave us nothing but a BS con job after an initial burst that bought him his years to sit and do nothing while pocketing a hefty paycheck. If Mullin fails it will not be for lack of effort as it was with Lavin. Lavin's problem was not that he "didn't move the needle fast enough", that is complete nonsense; it's that his years of doing nothing caught up with him and his cupboard was completely bare except for a couple of head cases. A situation Mullin and co. had the balls to face and endure last season while working their collective asses off to reverse. Your revisionist history and rationalizations about Lavin are almost as good a con as he pulled off.

2 bids in his 4 full seasons, Competed for NCAA bids in every season but his cancer year, which began with a barren roster and went downhill from there. Where in the prior 10 years did we compete for a bid. Those are the facts. Your opinions about Lavin's character and work ethic are subjective, even if recruiting efforts did not produce much. Why don't you criticize the rest of his staff as well as Lavin. Most big time programs use the HC to come in and close the deal.

There was a kid in my town who was legit 4 star blue chip player. Bobby Knight, Coach K, and a few other recruited him, but showed up only once for in home visits. Their staffs did all the heavy lifting. I suppose that's what Norm does for Bill Self, and most other top programs. I'm not even sure that a big time HC should be commended for hitting every gym from day one when he has a staff to do that.
 
And, I don't think you're giving sju fans enough credit.

Had Lavin tossed Jordan off the team, and given his minutes to Phil Greene and Jamal Branch... two guys who never complained about their situation, never got into it on the court ... just played ball and went to school:

Would we have lost a few more games? Probably. Been more at risk on the bubble? Yea. But (most) sju fans wouldn't have killed Lavin for it. They'd have been pissed at RJ for blowing it for his teammates.

If Jordan got tossed off the team a year ago by Lavin and got arrested today, most of the same blamers would blame Lavin again for not helping out a disadvantaged kid and pitching him once he didn't fit in here.

Beast, I don't blame Lavin for what Jordan has done. That's all on Rysheed.
Did Lavin help the situation by letting him continually slide bye? No. But, in fairness he was hardly the only one enabling this young man. Jordan made the decision to carry a gun, rob someone, and fire the weapon.
That's not Lavins fault.

But I do blame him for bringing in too many players who didn't deserve a scholarship from St Johns. We don't have to be holier than thou. I know basketball players are no angels most of the time.
But he brought in too many kids with asteriks, and whom other coaches shied away from for reasons other than basketball.

Who were those problems other than Jordan? CO turned out to be a nut, but did he have that rep coming in? Nurideen Lindsay had broken Chamberlains scoring records at his HS (Overbrook?).

For the most part, you guys are all full of beans in every criticism of Lavin EXCEPT that he didn't win enough. You can list a litany of his so called transgressions, but had we gotten deep into the NCAAs once or twice or more, you'd all be singing his praises.

Don't get me wrong. He deserved to get fired - not for anything you guys list, but simply for not winning enough. The rest is all speculative.

So what you're saying is that when he got here he was normal, and after 3 years with Lavin he became a complete nut ;)

What I'm saying is basketball recruits are like a box of chocolates....

On a serious note, though, Press Maravich, Pete's dad, developed a textbook for psychological profiling potential recruits for their capacity to adapt to and excel in college basketball. It was used for decades as a blueprint to assess players recruited by many coaches.

In today's environment, to try to compete among the elite programs that have the luxury of rejecting enormously gifted athletes who come with some baggage (academic questions, brushes with the law, etc) the next tier of schools and below are forced to take a risk on those kids to try to compete athletically in programs where winning means millions of dollars in tv money, tournament appearances, enrollment, sponsorships, etc. The more successful a program becomes, the more risk averse it can be. Even programs like Duke though can experience a problem like Rasheed Sulaimon's sexual assault charge - he was not so promptly dismissed from the program. Even then, Sulaimon's family felt he was hung out to dry on an unsubstantiated allegation - sound familiar with the utterance of Duke University?

Bottom line is that as you win more, you can move away from shaky recruits into the same blue chip cleaner slates that the big boys go after. It's not a perfect science, but it is clear the Lavin didn't move the needle fast enough in building a winning program for whatever reasons. For all of the deserved enthusiasm about Mullin, until we win a few games, all the accolades of him doing a great job so far are simply hopeful rants.

The difference is Mullin has given us legitimate reasons to be hopeful, your guy gave us nothing but a BS con job after an initial burst that bought him his years to sit and do nothing while pocketing a hefty paycheck. If Mullin fails it will not be for lack of effort as it was with Lavin. Lavin's problem was not that he "didn't move the needle fast enough", that is complete nonsense; it's that his years of doing nothing caught up with him and his cupboard was completely bare except for a couple of head cases. A situation Mullin and co. had the balls to face and endure last season while working their collective asses off to reverse. Your revisionist history and rationalizations about Lavin are almost as good a con as he pulled off.

I am as guilty as everyone but at least I am honest about it. Mullin has given us reason to hope because he is the greatest player in school history and any of us who saw him play are simply going to give him a pass. Tough to judge one way or another on last year but with that being said if his name was Joe Blow he would be getting killed on here.
 
The difference is Mullin has given us legitimate reasons to be hopeful, your guy gave us nothing but a BS con job after an initial burst that bought him his years to sit and do nothing while pocketing a hefty paycheck. If Mullin fails it will not be for lack of effort as it was with Lavin. Lavin's problem was not that he "didn't move the needle fast enough", that is complete nonsense; it's that his years of doing nothing caught up with him and his cupboard was completely bare except for a couple of head cases. A situation Mullin and co. had the balls to face and endure last season while working their collective asses off to reverse. Your revisionist history and rationalizations about Lavin are almost as good a con as he pulled off.

Lavins problem really wasn't a lack of effort. It was a lack of ability. He has no X&O acumen. Despite his first rate pedigree, he somehow never developed actual basketball IQ. Its something one either has from an early age or will never have I guess.

No amount of "effort" or hard work would have made Lavin a winner. Once Dunlap left the writing was on the wall.
 
Why don't you criticize the rest of his staff as well as Lavin. Most big time programs use the HC to come in and close the deal.

.
...... the buck stops with the head coach. The head coach hires the assistant coaches and he oversees their schedules. Hopefully no one on this site would have us believe that "Lav" was a victim because he had no control of Coaches Chiles and others.

One final note; as previously posted, his win/ loss record is not the only reason that "Lav" was terminated by BobbyG.
 
Why don't you criticize the rest of his staff as well as Lavin. Most big time programs use the HC to come in and close the deal.

.
...... the buck stops with the head coach. The head coach hires the assistant coaches and he oversees their schedules. Hopefully no one on this site would have us believe that "Lav" was a victim because he had no control of Coaches Chiles and others.

One final note; as previously posted, his win/ loss record is not the only reason that "Lav" was terminated by BobbyG.

For the record, a committee had been assembled prior to the 2015-2016 season to review his contract and progress he had made in 4 years. There was already some question as to whether he had moved the program far enough. Several BOT members were on that committee, and had last season ended better he would have survived. There is no question however, that casual discussions with Mullin had occurred during the season and started to pick up steam in February
 
I am as guilty as everyone but at least I am honest about it. Mullin has given us reason to hope because he is the greatest player in school history and any of us who saw him play are simply going to give him a pass. Tough to judge one way or another on last year but with that being said if his name was Joe Blow he would be getting killed on here.

A, if his name was Joe Blow they wouldn't have hired him. B, no coach in recent memory got killed after a year. Not Lavin, not Jarhead, not even Norm. Every one got a honeymoon. The only people questioning Mullin's competence after a year are Lavin's few remaining lickspittles.
 
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