we are sju
Active member
I'm not in any way a Lavin fan, but he did make us relevant again. Getting to the tourney, players showing up in the NBA draft, and winning some Big East rivalry showdowns counts for the general NCAA basketball fan...it doesn't fly for the keen follower of day to day or even game to game SJU basketball, but our name was back out there with a coach of celebrity status. I know many of us came to loathe that fact, but his time at UCLA and then in front of the camera for several years earned him that status. Next season we need to be a bubble team being talked about at the beginning of March. The "ifs" are there for next season, Brown being a pretty big one, but more important would be the transfers we don't know about and the return of our best players from the current season. This season still has legs, and the development of Ponds, Lovett, Ahmed, Yakwe and RF are keys to our future success.
I guess it depends on how you define "relevant," but IMHO the idea that St. John's has been relevant at any point in time since Marcus Hatten is laughable.
Here are the last 13 years for you:
2003–04: 6-21, 1–15 14th
2004–05: 9–18, 3–13 12th
2005–06: 12–15, 5–11 15th
2006–07: 16–15, 7–9 11th
2007–08: 11–19, 5–13 14th
2008–09: 16–18, 6–12, 13th, CBI First Round
2009–10: 17–16, 6–12 13th NIT First Round
2010–11: 21–12, 12–6 T-3rd NCAA Second Round
2011–12: 13-19, 6–12 T-11th
2012–13: 17–16, 8–10 10th NIT Second Round
2013–14: 20–13, 10–8 T-3rd NIT First Round
2014–15: 21–12, 10–8 5th NCAA Second Round
2015–16: 8-24, 1–17 10th
I'll grant you that the Lavin Error I mean Era was the "bright spot" with a conference record 2 whole games over .500 (as compared to Norm who was 38 games under .500 in conference and Jarvis who was 4 games over).
But seriously in what world is a program that has managed to finish higher than TENTH in its conference THREE TIMES in the past thirteen years (a 5th and two 3rds) "relevant"????
If you're going by the two whole NCAA appearances (both 2nd round losses), the three NIT appearances (two first round exits and one second round) and one (gulp) first-round exit in the CBI, then I respectfully disagree. There are all sorts of programs that you wouldn't consider remotely "relevant" that have better resumes. I'm not looking it up, but if you told me that places like Iona, LIU, Monmouth, Florida Atlantic, Stephen F Austin and two dozen others have more appearances I wouldn't be one bit surprised. I'm not even including perennial basketball powers like Harvard, who are far, far more relevant that St. John's.
And it's great that Moe Harkless is playing in the NBA, but IMO one NBA player in 13 years doesn't make you relevant either.
The whole problem with St J and with the St J fan base is far too much of both are stuck in a Rocky Horror Picture Show Time Warp in which they think that 1985 was yesterday, that the whole basketball world still remembers them the way they were, and they completely fail to appreciate that it's a whole new world out there. The first step to fixing a problem is recognizing that there is one, and in this case that recognition has to include the fact that the program is totally irrelevant nationally, is largely irrelevant locally (although Chris has helped fix that), and will continue to be so until it consistently wins 20 games and goes to the NCAA tournament, and eventually makes some noise there.
When that happens, alert the media. Until then, the definition of "relevant" is highly debatable.
Amen, Seth.
2009–10: 17–16, 6–12 13th NIT First Round
2010–11: 21–12, 12–6 T-3rd NCAA Second Round
2011–12: 13-19, 6–12 T-11th
2012–13: 17–16, 8–10 10th NIT Second Round
2013–14: 20–13, 10–8 T-3rd NIT First Round
2014–15: 21–12, 10–8 5th NCAA Second Round
If you changed the years to something in the 70's or 80's and you slipped these records under Louie's you probably wouldn't question it.
The way Jarvis era ended and followed up with the worst coach ever set us back more than anyone will admit. 7 years of sucking takes a lot out of program. Everyone says Lavin got "lazy" and maybe he did(or maybe cancer took away whatever drive he had) but if he could have maintained what he was doing he was well on his way to rivaling the "good old days" of Louie. Now we are starting over again. Hopefully it does not take another 7 years.
I really think if we can keep the two guards here and get some front court help we can be good again in a couple years. Just a matter of keeping away the prolonged rebuilds.