Rutgers Again

Amazing that she could still be working with such dirt in her past. Of course, the Star-Ledger will spend a small forune and do whatever it takes to sully everything Rutgers. Funny, these players were so traumatized it only took a couple of decades to come to light. One question, I understand the Rice tapes aren't pretty, especially in this politically correct world, but don't you find it a little odd that not one player talked against Rice and in fact, several transferred AFTER he was let go, not before. Rice was wrong, no one would argue that, but did anyone ask the question if any of those tapes were AFTER he received counseling? Or is the idea that Pernetti actually HELPED someone become a better person so repugnant that it doesn't matter? No doubt an unpopular questions on this board which can be so proud of the pristine pure SJU program and university.
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Not sure why you ask your last line about STJ vs. this thread.

Yes the tapes were before his counseling. It was made pretty clear that the tapes were older and Murdoch had them and was trying to get $ out of Rutgers and only when they finally said no he made them public. By that time Rice was disciplined and went to counseling already.


Do you feel that Rice shouldn't have been let go?
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No, I don't think Rice or Pernetti should have been let go. Rice went to counseling and was being closely monitored and IMO Pernetti handled the situation maturely and effectively. Yes, Rice was over the top but a lot of coaches are. He was wrong although I come from a different generation and I don't believe I played for a coach in my life that would not have been fired by today's "standards." And that includes both High School (3 sports) and college (basketball). IMO, there is a bigger picture here and that is that the Star-Ledger has gone after Rutgers at every opportunity. They tried to get Schiano and failed. They have gone after Stringer and failed. They went after Rice and with the help of ESPN got him. But again, and I know those tapes are damning and I leave myself wide open here, IMO they are still taken out of context. My grandfather always told me that if you lay out the worst 10 things any human being has done over a lifetime heaven would be a lonely place; I never forgot that and think it is a good "smell" test when judging others. Murdock went after Rutgers for money pure and simple and he found willing bed fellows in the Ledger and ESPN, both of which have proven to be less than ethical institutions. Now, that doesn't excuse Rice but in talking to the several RU players I know, he is a good man with a horrible temper and there are a lot of them around. All three of them told me they thought his only motivation was to make them better players so they never took personal offense to his tactics. They didn't always like them but they also told me there was a very positive side to his personality which obviously wasn't going to sell papers or raise Sportscenter ratings so, well that's life in this world. Again, maybe I would feel differently had just ONE player come out against him but they didn't and I think that speaks volumes. As for the AD, I don't put much stock in things that happened 20 years ago and then come out of the woodwork. Finally, the SJU comment; it was meant as a "glass house" type comment but frankly it was not germane and very lame and you are on the money calling me on it - my bad.
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Appreciate your response. I personally feel the Pernetti was unjustly fired. I think the reason Rice was primarily let go was the things he said not the actions he did on those tapes. Rutgers reeling from the death of the student who jumped from the GW Bridge after being called those same names and such was what I felt put it over the top.

As for why players did not come out? I feel players won't come out for fear of being blackballed. They would look soft then.

Lastly for this string of events. Everything they have done in this case has been bad. Not coming full clean on what happened in the first place, then the staggered firings. Then touting the graduate Eddie Jordan coming home, now hiring an AD who wasn't on the list of over 40 targets they were given and also the fact that she herself has a Mike Rice incident on her record, regardless of how long ago. If they didn't just fire people for the same actions then fine go ahead and hire her. But by firing one for another its hypocritical and ass backwards to a T.
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As someone stated, Rice was investigated, disciplined, and that should have been end of story. Funny, ESPN or the Ledger both neglected to mention the only reason the tapes were made public is because Murdock wasn't successful in blackmailing Rutgers. Regarding the players, like I said, I talked to several that I have known for a couple of years and none of them spoke poorly of Rice. Finally, the string of events; I am not trying to say RU is well run and this is all smoke and mirrors but to me it does not warrant the coverage it has been given. After Rice, Jordan doesn't have a degree, well you don't need one to coach. RU had literature that had him down as a graduate and that is lame , but front page news? Worthy of ticker time on ESPN? I am surprised that Hermann has that much baggage and I think it stupid RU made the decision they made but again I don't see anything really there. It is all much ado about very little IMO.
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Any scandal nowaday is blown up. Imagine if our Pitt scandal happened NOW as opposed to years ago. It would live on ESPN like the Rutgers story. Coaches lying on resumes has been a recent common occurrence. In this case he didn't lie but the school in essence fibbed.

Did any of the players you spoke to transfer? If so why when the asst coaches (who are often just as if not more important based on relationships) stayed? Continuity.

From what I heard Murdoch was let go in a very unprofessional way. Do I agree with his blackmailing? No. But since that place is showing how ass backwards it is, they got what they deserved maybe in some way.

Its all a mess. Like I said I think a lot hinged on Rice's comments in lieu of what happened with that student taking his own life. After that they had to have some level of extra scrutiny. I'd like to see the President let go as he has let this all happen and continue to spiral and give them negative attention.
 
No, I don't think Rice ... should have been let go
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Do you think a geography teacher should be permitted to throw a globe at the head of a student who can't name the capital of North Dakota? (It's Bismarck BTW, home of the Raccoon National Cemetery). Or an art teacher should be permitted to berate a student who can't draw well while beating him over the head with an easel? If it was done to toughen them up while improving their skills, obviously.
 
There are reports circulating that the new Rutgers AD is into discipline in a fetish kind of way. Shopping records show she has purchased many leather items in the past few years. She especially likes to discipline young ladies who have been bad. I, for one, would love to discipline her while dressed as a scarlet knight and she dressed as an RU cheerleader.
Wish me luck! I am on my way to New Brunswick.
 
There are reports circulating that the new Rutgers AD is into discipline in a fetish kind of way. Shopping records show she has purchased many leather items in the past few years. She especially likes to discipline young ladies who have been bad. I, for one, would love to discipline her while dressed as a scarlet knight and she dressed as an RU cheerleader.
Wish me luck! I am on my way to New Brunswick.
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Take pictures.
 
Amazing that she could still be working with such dirt in her past. Of course, the Star-Ledger will spend a small forune and do whatever it takes to sully everything Rutgers. Funny, these players were so traumatized it only took a couple of decades to come to light. One question, I understand the Rice tapes aren't pretty, especially in this politically correct world, but don't you find it a little odd that not one player talked against Rice and in fact, several transferred AFTER he was let go, not before. Rice was wrong, no one would argue that, but did anyone ask the question if any of those tapes were AFTER he received counseling? Or is the idea that Pernetti actually HELPED someone become a better person so repugnant that it doesn't matter? No doubt an unpopular questions on this board which can be so proud of the pristine pure SJU program and university.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you ask your last line about STJ vs. this thread.

Yes the tapes were before his counseling. It was made pretty clear that the tapes were older and Murdoch had them and was trying to get $ out of Rutgers and only when they finally said no he made them public. By that time Rice was disciplined and went to counseling already.


Do you feel that Rice shouldn't have been let go?
Click to expand...

No, I don't think Rice or Pernetti should have been let go. Rice went to counseling and was being closely monitored and IMO Pernetti handled the situation maturely and effectively. Yes, Rice was over the top but a lot of coaches are. He was wrong although I come from a different generation and I don't believe I played for a coach in my life that would not have been fired by today's "standards." And that includes both High School (3 sports) and college (basketball). IMO, there is a bigger picture here and that is that the Star-Ledger has gone after Rutgers at every opportunity. They tried to get Schiano and failed. They have gone after Stringer and failed. They went after Rice and with the help of ESPN got him. But again, and I know those tapes are damning and I leave myself wide open here, IMO they are still taken out of context. My grandfather always told me that if you lay out the worst 10 things any human being has done over a lifetime heaven would be a lonely place; I never forgot that and think it is a good "smell" test when judging others. Murdock went after Rutgers for money pure and simple and he found willing bed fellows in the Ledger and ESPN, both of which have proven to be less than ethical institutions. Now, that doesn't excuse Rice but in talking to the several RU players I know, he is a good man with a horrible temper and there are a lot of them around. All three of them told me they thought his only motivation was to make them better players so they never took personal offense to his tactics. They didn't always like them but they also told me there was a very positive side to his personality which obviously wasn't going to sell papers or raise Sportscenter ratings so, well that's life in this world. Again, maybe I would feel differently had just ONE player come out against him but they didn't and I think that speaks volumes. As for the AD, I don't put much stock in things that happened 20 years ago and then come out of the woodwork. Finally, the SJU comment; it was meant as a "glass house" type comment but frankly it was not germane and very lame and you are on the money calling me on it - my bad.
Click to expand...

Appreciate your response. I personally feel the Pernetti was unjustly fired. I think the reason Rice was primarily let go was the things he said not the actions he did on those tapes. Rutgers reeling from the death of the student who jumped from the GW Bridge after being called those same names and such was what I felt put it over the top.

As for why players did not come out? I feel players won't come out for fear of being blackballed. They would look soft then.

Lastly for this string of events. Everything they have done in this case has been bad. Not coming full clean on what happened in the first place, then the staggered firings. Then touting the graduate Eddie Jordan coming home, now hiring an AD who wasn't on the list of over 40 targets they were given and also the fact that she herself has a Mike Rice incident on her record, regardless of how long ago. If they didn't just fire people for the same actions then fine go ahead and hire her. But by firing one for another its hypocritical and ass backwards to a T.
Click to expand...

As someone stated, Rice was investigated, disciplined, and that should have been end of story. Funny, ESPN or the Ledger both neglected to mention the only reason the tapes were made public is because Murdock wasn't successful in blackmailing Rutgers. Regarding the players, like I said, I talked to several that I have known for a couple of years and none of them spoke poorly of Rice. Finally, the string of events; I am not trying to say RU is well run and this is all smoke and mirrors but to me it does not warrant the coverage it has been given. After Rice, Jordan doesn't have a degree, well you don't need one to coach. RU had literature that had him down as a graduate and that is lame , but front page news? Worthy of ticker time on ESPN? I am surprised that Hermann has that much baggage and I think it stupid RU made the decision they made but again I don't see anything really there. It is all much ado about very little IMO.
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While I brought up the degree part to show how they can't get their act together, I do think that the head coach of a college program should have a degree.
 
Probably, most applying would. have one . However, if his duties are
restricted to coaching ,recruiting and no teaching classes tend to feel one could do a good job without a degree.
 
Amazing that she could still be working with such dirt in her past. Of course, the Star-Ledger will spend a small forune and do whatever it takes to sully everything Rutgers. Funny, these players were so traumatized it only took a couple of decades to come to light. One question, I understand the Rice tapes aren't pretty, especially in this politically correct world, but don't you find it a little odd that not one player talked against Rice and in fact, several transferred AFTER he was let go, not before. Rice was wrong, no one would argue that, but did anyone ask the question if any of those tapes were AFTER he received counseling? Or is the idea that Pernetti actually HELPED someone become a better person so repugnant that it doesn't matter? No doubt an unpopular questions on this board which can be so proud of the pristine pure SJU program and university.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you ask your last line about STJ vs. this thread.

Yes the tapes were before his counseling. It was made pretty clear that the tapes were older and Murdoch had them and was trying to get $ out of Rutgers and only when they finally said no he made them public. By that time Rice was disciplined and went to counseling already.


Do you feel that Rice shouldn't have been let go?
Click to expand...

No, I don't think Rice or Pernetti should have been let go. Rice went to counseling and was being closely monitored and IMO Pernetti handled the situation maturely and effectively. Yes, Rice was over the top but a lot of coaches are. He was wrong although I come from a different generation and I don't believe I played for a coach in my life that would not have been fired by today's "standards." And that includes both High School (3 sports) and college (basketball). IMO, there is a bigger picture here and that is that the Star-Ledger has gone after Rutgers at every opportunity. They tried to get Schiano and failed. They have gone after Stringer and failed. They went after Rice and with the help of ESPN got him. But again, and I know those tapes are damning and I leave myself wide open here, IMO they are still taken out of context. My grandfather always told me that if you lay out the worst 10 things any human being has done over a lifetime heaven would be a lonely place; I never forgot that and think it is a good "smell" test when judging others. Murdock went after Rutgers for money pure and simple and he found willing bed fellows in the Ledger and ESPN, both of which have proven to be less than ethical institutions. Now, that doesn't excuse Rice but in talking to the several RU players I know, he is a good man with a horrible temper and there are a lot of them around. All three of them told me they thought his only motivation was to make them better players so they never took personal offense to his tactics. They didn't always like them but they also told me there was a very positive side to his personality which obviously wasn't going to sell papers or raise Sportscenter ratings so, well that's life in this world. Again, maybe I would feel differently had just ONE player come out against him but they didn't and I think that speaks volumes. As for the AD, I don't put much stock in things that happened 20 years ago and then come out of the woodwork. Finally, the SJU comment; it was meant as a "glass house" type comment but frankly it was not germane and very lame and you are on the money calling me on it - my bad.
Click to expand...

Appreciate your response. I personally feel the Pernetti was unjustly fired. I think the reason Rice was primarily let go was the things he said not the actions he did on those tapes. Rutgers reeling from the death of the student who jumped from the GW Bridge after being called those same names and such was what I felt put it over the top.

As for why players did not come out? I feel players won't come out for fear of being blackballed. They would look soft then.

Lastly for this string of events. Everything they have done in this case has been bad. Not coming full clean on what happened in the first place, then the staggered firings. Then touting the graduate Eddie Jordan coming home, now hiring an AD who wasn't on the list of over 40 targets they were given and also the fact that she herself has a Mike Rice incident on her record, regardless of how long ago. If they didn't just fire people for the same actions then fine go ahead and hire her. But by firing one for another its hypocritical and ass backwards to a T.
Click to expand...

As someone stated, Rice was investigated, disciplined, and that should have been end of story. Funny, ESPN or the Ledger both neglected to mention the only reason the tapes were made public is because Murdock wasn't successful in blackmailing Rutgers. Regarding the players, like I said, I talked to several that I have known for a couple of years and none of them spoke poorly of Rice. Finally, the string of events; I am not trying to say RU is well run and this is all smoke and mirrors but to me it does not warrant the coverage it has been given. After Rice, Jordan doesn't have a degree, well you don't need one to coach. RU had literature that had him down as a graduate and that is lame , but front page news? Worthy of ticker time on ESPN? I am surprised that Hermann has that much baggage and I think it stupid RU made the decision they made but again I don't see anything really there. It is all much ado about very little IMO.
Click to expand...

Any scandal nowaday is blown up. Imagine if our Pitt scandal happened NOW as opposed to years ago. It would live on ESPN like the Rutgers story. Coaches lying on resumes has been a recent common occurrence. In this case he didn't lie but the school in essence fibbed.

Did any of the players you spoke to transfer? If so why when the asst coaches (who are often just as if not more important based on relationships) stayed? Continuity.

From what I heard Murdoch was let go in a very unprofessional way. Do I agree with his blackmailing? No. But since that place is showing how ass backwards it is, they got what they deserved maybe in some way.

Its all a mess. Like I said I think a lot hinged on Rice's comments in lieu of what happened with that student taking his own life. After that they had to have some level of extra scrutiny. I'd like to see the President let go as he has let this all happen and continue to spiral and give them negative attention.
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None of the players I talked to transferred. From what I know, Murdock was let go because because he didn't work very hard, plain and simple. Some close to the program thought he was angling for Rice's job from day one. Regardless, I'm not sure there is a professional way to fire someone.
As for Rutgers getting what they deserve, Rutgers is a very strange situation. For as long as I have been aware there has been a conflict there as to what they are; by that I mean there is a large faction as the school that considers them an "Ivy" level institution and actively "confronts" the idea of upgrading sports. The Star-Ledger has exploited that with unnamed sources, etc. type information. A good example is the Hermann stuff, they ran like crazy with the "letter" story citing that as the reason for her firing. Yet, there is no letter in her personnel file at Tennessee which proves nothing in itself but is an inportant piece of data if you are trying to be objective. Being objective also means lets keep the incident in the context of time, this occurred years ago in a lot less mindless, politically correct time but again that doesn't matter. Let's take Adolph Rupp out of the HoF because he was a stoned racist. Let's strip Bobby Knight of his titles because of his comments about rape (and a million other incidents). I understand the situations are different because hermann is active today but I think I make my point about putting the incident (if it ever really happened to the magnitude being presented currently) in the context of its time.
Finally, in the bigger picture, I realize times are different but what happened to "sticks and stones", what happened to teaching people to grow a set and learn to deal with adversity? We are not doing people in general and kids in particular a favor trying to legislate a "fair" world because it never has been and never will be; we are trying to create a fantasy world and if it wasn't so sad it would be comical.
 
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10922539/philip-nelson-rutgers-scarlet-knights-charged-assault

Rutgers quarterback Philip Nelson has been charged with assault for allegedly kicking another man in the head after an altercation in downtown Mankato, leaving the man gravely injured.
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As usual, don't let a mature objective examination of the facts get in the way; yes, Nelson transferred to RU but this incident was in Minnesota and has nothing to do with RU. It definetly speaks to Nelson's character, to say the least, but unless his past shows evidence of this type of violent nature and RU ignored it, mentioning the incident in a legitimate thread about Rice and Hermann and problems at RU accomplishes nothing and seems to be an attempt to squeeze a cheap knock out of a horrible situation. Now, would it shock me if they didn't due their proper due diligence? Not at all, but a man is clinging to life and may be brain dead, attempting to knock RU for Nelson's actions is like associating SJU with what Jayson Williams did, classlessly ridiculous. And for those abhorred by my defense of RU, I have a brother, nephew, and neice who graduated and have lived in Jersey for 50 years, so yes, I like RU, warts and all.
 
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10922539/philip-nelson-rutgers-scarlet-knights-charged-assault

Rutgers quarterback Philip Nelson has been charged with assault for allegedly kicking another man in the head after an altercation in downtown Mankato, leaving the man gravely injured.
Click to expand...

As usual, don't let a mature objective examination of the facts get in the way; yes, Nelson transferred to RU but this incident was in Minnesota and has nothing to do with RU. It definetly speaks to Nelson's character, to say the least, but unless his past shows evidence of this type of violent nature and RU ignored it, mentioning the incident in a legitimate thread about Rice and Hermann and problems at RU accomplishes nothing and seems to be an attempt to squeeze a cheap knock out of a horrible situation. Now, would it shock me if they didn't due their proper due diligence? Not at all, but a man is clinging to life and may be brain dead, attempting to knock RU for Nelson's actions is like associating SJU with what Jayson Williams did, classlessly ridiculous. And for those abhorred by my defense of RU, I have a brother, nephew, and neice who graduated and have lived in Jersey for 50 years, so yes, I like RU, warts and all.
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It's a good post, and good discussion. When someone does something horrible and not in an official capacity or even at the place where he is associated, it should only defame that person. If this occurred on campus, or on the playing field, then it's a different story.
 
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10922539/philip-nelson-rutgers-scarlet-knights-charged-assault

Rutgers quarterback Philip Nelson has been charged with assault for allegedly kicking another man in the head after an altercation in downtown Mankato, leaving the man gravely injured.
Click to expand...

As usual, don't let a mature objective examination of the facts get in the way; yes, Nelson transferred to RU but this incident was in Minnesota and has nothing to do with RU. It definetly speaks to Nelson's character, to say the least, but unless his past shows evidence of this type of violent nature and RU ignored it, mentioning the incident in a legitimate thread about Rice and Hermann and problems at RU accomplishes nothing and seems to be an attempt to squeeze a cheap knock out of a horrible situation. Now, would it shock me if they didn't due their proper due diligence? Not at all, but a man is clinging to life and may be brain dead, attempting to knock RU for Nelson's actions is like associating SJU with what Jayson Williams did, classlessly ridiculous. And for those abhorred by my defense of RU, I have a brother, nephew, and neice who graduated and have lived in Jersey for 50 years, so yes, I like RU, warts and all.
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Am I missing something? All he did was post facts and a link regarding a Rutgers player doing something bad in a Rutgers drama thread. Bad press for Rutgers no matter how you slice it. It's not their fault, but it is their problem.
 
Can be blamed on a school if there is a pattern that shows a win at all costs mentality.
 
Can be blamed on a school if there is a pattern that shows a win at all costs mentality.
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That logic doesn't apply to Rutgers
They don't win in football or basketball
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Right. Guess I should have said attempt to win at all costs. :)
 
Rutgers only AAU member in Metro New York area who plays football just as Maryland is only AAU member in Metro DC playing football
 
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