Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
Cool discussion. Found this article which describes him as both overrated and underrated:
www.espn.com
Yes he was a compiler in the strictest sense, but I would never label him as such. To me, guys like Phil Niekro and Bert Blyleven are compilers, and their numbers make them HOF worthy, but when I watched them pitch, I never thought of them as HOFers. I did feel that way about Rose.
He won an MVP, and finished in the top 5 five times. ROY, 17 time AS. He’s second all-time for career doubles. He had a 44 game hitting streak. He spent most of his career batting 1-3 in the lineup, and a lot of time at the top. That would cut down on his rbi totals. A similar hitter like Carew would have had the benefit of more opportunities due to the DH. Plus a 7-8-9 of Concepcion, Geronimo, and the pitcher really minimized his rbi opportunities.
Pete led the NL in scoring 4 times, and scored over 100 runs 10 times. Led the league in hits 7 times, had over 200 hits 10 times. Played 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and all outfield positions. Won 2 gold gloves. He volunteered to move to third to get another bat in the lineup. His lack of power would surely compare poorly to other first/third basemen using modern statistics.
I think it’s unfair to compare him to Lou Brock. Pete was Charlie Hustle, not Eddie Speed Demon. Brock was one of the greatest base stealers of all time. I did see Charlie Hustle get on base due to lackadaisical fielding or the slightest bobble. He was always on, giving 100%.
Finally there were the intangibles. I recall an interview with Steve Garvey (an intense competitor as well). He was asked why he thought the NL dominated the AS game at the time. His response was Pete Rose and his drive to win. Same thing with the Phillies. They won the NL East in 76-78, couldn’t get past the NLCS. Many said the Rose put them over the top in 1980.
Was he the best hitter I ever saw? No (Gwynn). Was he the most complete hitter I ever saw? No (Bonds). If I was putting a team together, would he be at the top of the list for consideration? Definitely.
As far as the gambling goes, there’s a sign in every major and minor league clubhouse indicating that gambling on baseball is prohibited. He saw those signs for probably 30 years. Despite the numbers, he doesn’t belong in the HOF, and it’s his own fault.
Pete Rose's career took him from underrated to overrated -- and back
Pete Rose makes for a fascinating on-field study -- a player whose reputation changed even as his game stayed the same.
Yes he was a compiler in the strictest sense, but I would never label him as such. To me, guys like Phil Niekro and Bert Blyleven are compilers, and their numbers make them HOF worthy, but when I watched them pitch, I never thought of them as HOFers. I did feel that way about Rose.
He won an MVP, and finished in the top 5 five times. ROY, 17 time AS. He’s second all-time for career doubles. He had a 44 game hitting streak. He spent most of his career batting 1-3 in the lineup, and a lot of time at the top. That would cut down on his rbi totals. A similar hitter like Carew would have had the benefit of more opportunities due to the DH. Plus a 7-8-9 of Concepcion, Geronimo, and the pitcher really minimized his rbi opportunities.
Pete led the NL in scoring 4 times, and scored over 100 runs 10 times. Led the league in hits 7 times, had over 200 hits 10 times. Played 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and all outfield positions. Won 2 gold gloves. He volunteered to move to third to get another bat in the lineup. His lack of power would surely compare poorly to other first/third basemen using modern statistics.
I think it’s unfair to compare him to Lou Brock. Pete was Charlie Hustle, not Eddie Speed Demon. Brock was one of the greatest base stealers of all time. I did see Charlie Hustle get on base due to lackadaisical fielding or the slightest bobble. He was always on, giving 100%.
Finally there were the intangibles. I recall an interview with Steve Garvey (an intense competitor as well). He was asked why he thought the NL dominated the AS game at the time. His response was Pete Rose and his drive to win. Same thing with the Phillies. They won the NL East in 76-78, couldn’t get past the NLCS. Many said the Rose put them over the top in 1980.
Was he the best hitter I ever saw? No (Gwynn). Was he the most complete hitter I ever saw? No (Bonds). If I was putting a team together, would he be at the top of the list for consideration? Definitely.
As far as the gambling goes, there’s a sign in every major and minor league clubhouse indicating that gambling on baseball is prohibited. He saw those signs for probably 30 years. Despite the numbers, he doesn’t belong in the HOF, and it’s his own fault.
