Reimagined Roster

Knight said:
I was thinking about our roster and what it could have looked like if Coach Pitino didn't decide to replace most of last year's team.
Here's the roster I would have liked to have seen carried to this season. NCAA allows 15 with 13 on scholarship.
Guards-7; Forwards-6; Centers-2

View attachment 1874
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I'm trying to come up with a diplomatic way to answer this. This is the best I can do, I'm only human. So, Jones stays, and Luis and Taylor still want to transfer to SJU? Storr stays and Dingle looks at all his options and transfers to SJU? Posh and Jenkins both want to fight for playing time? And on and on. Because you seem to think there is no cause and effect here. I will give you the first rule of accounting. There are no one-sided transactions.

There is no way these rosters could ever exist, which gets to the bigger point. Last year's guys are gone. They are not coming back. The girl dumps you for another guy. You lose her number.

If I was going to fantasize about a current SJU roster that had no chance of existing I would be including guys like Kolek and Kalkbrenner on them. If you are going to dream - dream big! No reason to be thinking about ugly girls in the shower.
 
IDRAFT said:
I'm trying to come up with a diplomatic way to answer this. This is the best I can do, I'm only human. So, Jones stays, and Luis and Taylor still want to transfer to SJU? Storr stays and Dingle looks at all his options and transfers to SJU? Posh and Jenkins both want to fight for playing time? And on and on. Because you seem to think there is no cause and effect here. I will give you the first rule of accounting. There are no one-sided transactions.

There is no way these rosters could ever exist, which gets to the bigger point. Last year's guys are gone. They are not coming back. The girl dumps you for another guy. You lose her number.

If I was going to fantasize about a current SJU roster that had no chance of existing I would be including guys like Kolek and Kalkbrenner on them. If you are going to dream - dream big! No reason to be thinking about ugly girls in the shower.
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I’ll settle for any roster where Jenkins is somewhere else. I just looked up King’s stats and I’m sick.

He’s averaging 14.3 points and 2.2 steals while shooting 52.7% from the field and 39.1% from 3. He only needs 9 FGs a game to average 14.3.

If Jenkins was averaging 52.7% from the field he’d be taking 30 shots a game.
 
Marillac2 said:
I’ll settle for any roster where Jenkins is somewhere else. I just looked up King’s stats and I’m sick.

He’s averaging 14.3 points and 2.2 steals while shooting 52.7% from the field and 39.1% from 3. He only needs 9 FGs a game to average 14.3.

If Jenkins was averaging 52.7% from the field he’d be taking 30 shots a game.
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I understand one more opportunity to continue your campaign against Jenkins but , despite King playing well for Tulane , it’s not the BE .
 
MainMan said:
Look we all know Kolby King's stats were going to take a huge once he started playing real teams so let me look up on ESPN and..... wait a sec... are these right?..... these ARE right..... GOOD GOD WE LET ANOTHER ONE GET AWAY!!!!!!!!
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how do phrase this- two former potential teammates...? - King / Yaxel facing off tonight.

Yaxel has been putting up some nice numbers at UAB the past month or so
 
bucketshardy said:
how do phrase this- two former potential teammates...? - King / Yaxel facing off tonight.

Yaxel has been putting up some nice numbers at UAB the past month or so
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Yaxel really having a nice year - 12 ppg 9 rebounds, 2.3 blocks and shooting 77% from the line where he spends a lot of time (66-86). CMAs problem wasn’t recruiting talent.
 
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I think CMAs problem in recruiting, which showed consistently during his tenure, was vetting the recruits. Which means recruiting was a big problem. It’s a team game. And the group kept losing. If they were any good they would have won.

Which leaves everyone killing CMA for not coaching a group of players who had zero interest in listening to anyone. I have taught and coached in my life and totally believe an okay teacher with a dedicated group of students will always end up with a more successful group than an excellent teacher with a classroom of unmotivated students. There is only so much the teacher can do.

I can’t believe I’m on here in January 2024 defending CMA as a coach. But the pass these players constantly get for their disregard for the game of basketball as if everything was his fault is tough for me to digest.
 
IDRAFT said:
I think CMAs problem in recruiting, which showed consistently during his tenure, was vetting the recruits. Which means recruiting was a big problem. It’s a team game. And the group kept losing. If they were any good they would have won.

Which leaves everyone killing CMA for not coaching a group of players who had zero interest in listening to anyone. I have taught and coached in my life and totally believe an okay teacher with a dedicated group of students will always end up with a more successful group than an excellent teacher with a classroom of unmotivated students. There is only so much the teacher can do.

I can’t believe I’m on here in January 2024 defending CMA as a coach. But the pass these players constantly get for their disregard for the game of basketball as if everything was his fault is tough for me to digest.
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Maybe the simplest analogy is Mike Anderson may have lost his fastball. He seemed best candidate out there for SJU and had good record at other schools. He proved to be a one dimensional coach with his 40 minutes of “heck” and who knows, he just could have become less motivated. Obviously Rick comes with fierce hunger to succeed and battle and hopefully that translates to his players.
 
Marillac2 said:
I’ll settle for any roster where Jenkins is somewhere else. I just looked up King’s stats and I’m sick.

He’s averaging 14.3 points and 2.2 steals while shooting 52.7% from the field and 39.1% from 3. He only needs 9 FGs a game to average 14.3.

If Jenkins was averaging 52.7% from the field he’d be taking 30 shots a game.
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I was sure Jenkins was already taking 30 shots per game
 
Marillac2 said:
I’ll settle for any roster where Jenkins is somewhere else. I just looked up King’s stats and I’m sick.

He’s averaging 14.3 points and 2.2 steals while shooting 52.7% from the field and 39.1% from 3. He only needs 9 FGs a game to average 14.3.

If Jenkins was averaging 52.7% from the field he’d be taking 30 shots a game.
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Marillac has good sense of humor, can be hyperbolic, but knows the game. Imo, he makes a good case on Jenkins’ limitations and SJ’s dependence to date on him to score. I wish there was a happy medium between a guy who has & can make key buckets and one is too much of a shoot first type eschewing setting up teammates as primary responsibility. I guess “giveth & “taketh” is apt and looks like this won’t change.
 
IDRAFT said:
I think CMAs problem in recruiting, which showed consistently during his tenure, was vetting the recruits. Which means recruiting was a big problem. It’s a team game. And the group kept losing. If they were any good they would have won.

Which leaves everyone killing CMA for not coaching a group of players who had zero interest in listening to anyone. I have taught and coached in my life and totally believe an okay teacher with a dedicated group of students will always end up with a more successful group than an excellent teacher with a classroom of unmotivated students. There is only so much the teacher can do.

I can’t believe I’m on here in January 2024 defending CMA as a coach. But the pass these players constantly get for their disregard for the game of basketball as if everything was his fault is tough for me to digest.
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Most high school and college athletes will happily do as little as you make them and try to get away with as much allow them to. I played for a coach that played for Bear Bryant and you knew you had zero wiggle room on anything whatsoever. It didn't matter if it was the 10th sprint at the end of the third practice of a 100 degree August day...if your foot was 1 inch over the line, everyone had to run again. Guess how many times we made that mistake? I also played for a coach in high school that would jokingly come get you from the cafeteria if you were skipping class with no penalties...so we skipped class a lot.

It's hard for me to blame the kids in this scenario. They are going to do as little as possible and walk right up to the line. It's up to the adults to draw those lines. Pitino makes those lines very clear and he's willing to sacrifice some talent year 1 and 2 because his goal is to reach a Final Four in years 4-6.

I think a bigger problem than the lack of discipline off the court was the lack of chemistry on it. Posh and Curbelo could never work. Not under Anderson. Not under Pitino. I don't think Jenkins and Dingle could work under anyone even if they had 4 years.

One thing is abundantly clear now...the talent was there last year.
 
paultzman said:
Marillac has good sense of humor, can be hyperbolic, but knows the game. Imo, he makes a good case on Jenkins’ limitations and SJ’s dependence to date on him to score. I wish there was a happy medium between a guy who has & can make key buckets and one is too much of a shoot first type eschewing setting up teammates as primary responsibility. I guess “giveth & “taketh” is apt and looks like this won’t change.
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To me it's about willingness to pass the ball. Jenkins first choice is to look for his own shot. If it isn't available, then sometimes he forces it and sometimes he passes.

The result is that he routinely takes almost as many shots as the next 2 players combined and often if you exclude #2 he takes as many shots as the next THREE players combined.

The problem (in my opinion) is that he is simply not a better scoring option than the guys who aren't getting the ball. They aren't getting the ball because he likes a bad shot that he takes better than a good shot that they could take. In his mind, he's Kyrie Irving.

He remains productive, and unless Pitino is willing to take his lumps while Wilcher learns on the job or try Alleyne at the position there aren't any other options to turn to. But the team as a whole is less productive than it could be as a result of him not playing the point to set up his teammates as opposed to himself.

As a fellow fan said to me at the Providence game, he isn't a point guard, he's a points guard.

I find it enormously frustrating but on the other hand there's no sense beating a dead horse - this should wind up being a decent season and the next one will bring new opportunities to complain about other things.
 
Marillac2 said:
I think a bigger problem than the lack of discipline off the court was the lack of chemistry on it. Posh and Curbelo could never work. Not under Anderson. Not under Pitino. I don't think Jenkins and Dingle could work under anyone even if they had 4 years.
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Very astute points. Tho IMO Anderson's downfall was Curbelo - he reached for the talent, it blew up his team chemistry, and that was the end of that. As you said, clearly enough talent on the roster.
 
lawmanfan said:
To me it's about willingness to pass the ball. Jenkins first choice is to look for his own shot. If it isn't available, then sometimes he forces it and sometimes he passes.

The result is that he routinely takes almost as many shots as the next 2 players combined and often if you exclude #2 he takes as many shots as the next THREE players combined.

The problem (in my opinion) is that he is simply not a better scoring option than the guys who aren't getting the ball. They aren't getting the ball because he likes a bad shot that he takes better than a good shot that they could take. In his mind, he's Kyrie Irving.

He remains productive, and unless Pitino is willing to take his lumps while Wilcher learns on the job or try Alleyne at the position there aren't any other options to turn to. But the team as a whole is less productive than it could be as a result of him not playing the point to set up his teammates as opposed to himself.

As a fellow fan said to me at the Providence game, he isn't a point guard, he's a points guard.

I find it enormously frustrating but on the other hand there's no sense beating a dead horse - this should wind up being a decent season and the next one will bring new opportunities to complain about other things.
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Jenkins , until this week I believe was 2 nd in the BE in Assists . I’m not sure that’s changed . He was also 20 on the Country in Assists as of last week . I believe

Who needs to shoot more ? Dingle ? He shoots 41 percent . Jenkins shoots 40.3 not great but , no worse than Dingle .
 
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