Ranking the Best Coaching Jobs in Big East

paultzman

paultzman

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9. St. John's

St. John’s just isn’t same job it was back in the early days of the Big East. There isn’t as much talent coming from within New York City and the prospects that do stay home and don’t leave for a prep school are tough to keep home. The resources also aren’t at the same level as some of the other schools in the league. Playing some home games in Madison Square Garden is a big draw for some, but there isn’t the same level of support from the fan base as others in the Big East.

Rankings
Nova
UConn
Marquette
GT
Creighton
Xavier
Butler
PC
SJU
SH
DePaul

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/ranking-the-best-basketball-jobs-by-conference-big-east
 
'Winning' would be the critical spark that would drive change and reshape the map.
Easier said than done, but there it is.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=396685]'Winning' would be the critical spark that would drive change and reshape the map.
Easier said than done, but there it is.[/quote]

Agree completely CD. We've tasted winning under every coach since Louie. Certainly nowhere near enough winning. I feel confident that we have the right man at the helm and will experience a lot more (and consistent) winning seasons moving forward. Just wonder where we would be ranked in, say, the mid 80's and mid 90s?
 
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[quote="Monte" post=396686][quote="Chicago Days" post=396685]'Winning' would be the critical spark that would drive change and reshape the map.
Easier said than done, but there it is.[/quote]

Agree completely CD. We've tasted winning under every coach since Louie. Certainly nowhere near enough winning. I feel confident that we have the right man at the helm and will experience a lot more (and consistent) winning seasons moving forward. Just wonder where we would be ranked in, say, the mid 80's and mid 90s?[/quote]Good question.

I suppose it matters how they are defining "best". I presume its not based on record, but opportunity to succeed so $, facilities, school, reputation all matter.

Can't imagine we aren't in the bottom half of the league no matter when they put a list together. We've never had the resources other BE schools have had.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=396687]
I suppose it matters how they are defining "best". I presume its not based on record, but opportunity to succeed so $, facilities, school, reputation all matter.

Can't imagine we aren't in the bottom half of the league no matter when they put a list together. We've never had the resources other BE schools have had.[/quote]

One of the major selling points of St. Johns 80s/early 90s was "4th winningest program in NCAA history, in the largest media market in the country" So it wasn't just the local recruiting and the Louie/subway token story, it was being the center of the media universe. By mid 90s, Duke passed us on all time list and by late 90s a lot of schools did. Into the 21st century the media market is still valid but the landscape in the US and worldwide is very different so it is not as significant as it was.
 
I think looking at the coaches hired between Looie and CMA it may be based on the level of coach that would be attracted to the job. There has been nary a marquee hire, the closest being Jarvis. Everyone else has been a regionally relevant hire at best or some level of reclamation project, and Mullin which made no sense at all.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=396688][quote="SJUFAN2" post=396687]
I suppose it matters how they are defining "best". I presume its not based on record, but opportunity to succeed so $, facilities, school, reputation all matter.

Can't imagine we aren't in the bottom half of the league no matter when they put a list together. We've never had the resources other BE schools have had.[/quote]

One of the major selling points of St. Johns 80s/early 90s was "4th winningest program in NCAA history, in the largest media market in the country" So it wasn't just the local recruiting and the Louie/subway token story, it was being the center of the media universe. By mid 90s, Duke passed us on all time list and by late 90s a lot of schools did. Into the 21st century the media market is still valid but the landscape in the US and worldwide is very different so it is not as significant as it was.[/quote]

Good points. With social media and online media, it really has made the world smaller. So that really took an advantage away from St. John's having NYC as a selling point.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=396682]9. St. John's

St. John’s just isn’t same job it was back in the early days of the Big East. There isn’t as much talent coming from within New York City and the prospects that do stay home and don’t leave for a prep school are tough to keep home. The resources also aren’t at the same level as some of the other schools in the league. Playing some home games in Madison Square Garden is a big draw for some, but there isn’t the same level of support from the fan base as others in the Big East.

Rankings
Nova
UConn
Marquette
GT
Creighton
Xavier
Butler
PC
SJU
SH
DePaul

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/ranking-the-best-basketball-jobs-by-conference-big-east[/quote]

These are points brought up on this board all the time, but it really is sobering to see it put in print by an unbiased party. Really puts things in perspective.
 
[quote="austour" post=396689]I think looking at the coaches hired between Looie and CMA it may be based on the level of coach that would be attracted to the job. There has been nary a marquee hire, the closest being Jarvis. Everyone else has been a regionally relevant hire at best or some level of reclamation project, and Mullin which made no sense at all.[/quote]

Agree that the coaching hires have left much to be desired, but a big part of the problem was the hiring process, which had some combination of Grifty Harrington, Louie, alumni donors, and school administrators making the poor choices. Bob McKillop could have been hired years ago and he would have been successful. There were probably others who would have compared favorably to those who were hired. Mike Cragg saved us from making yet another questionable choice a year ago.
 
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Can't believe Creighton, Xavier and Butler are below Marquette and GT. They have become upper echelon programs since joining the new Big East. Multiple NCAA trips and I believe they've all been ranked at least once in the AP top ten during their tenure in the conference.
 
[quote="AlexSTJ" post=396700]Can't believe Creighton, Xavier and Butler are below Marquette and GT. They have become upper echelon programs since joining the new Big East. Multiple NCAA trips and I believe they've all been ranked at least once in the AP top ten during their tenure in the conference.[/quote]

Georgetown I get as they are prestigious name in capitol of US. I have no idea about the comment in article about how well funded the program is.

As for Creigton...good fans but still Nebraska.

Butler & Xavier - good basketball in midwest states. But small schools enrollment wise. Like a Providence. Butler gets shadowed by Purdue & Indiana. X is right next to Cincy and also has Ohio St., Louisville any KY and even Dayton to compete with in the region for recruits.
 
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[quote="AlexSTJ" post=396700]Can't believe Creighton, Xavier and Butler are below Marquette and GT. They have become upper echelon programs since joining the new Big East. Multiple NCAA trips and I believe they've all been ranked at least once in the AP top ten during their tenure in the conference.[/quote]

Since the ranking is "Coaching Jobs" I see what you are saying. I actually think Butler is a really good job but for the right coach. Similar to Providence which is a really good job for Cooley. It, Providence and Xavier have also been really good jobs for coaches to move on to big paychecks. Creighton is a great job and provides a Big10 like atmosphere specific to basketball. All the Big E schools other than Yukon are going to shine on specific characteristics and they aren't going to be net comparisons to the rest of College basketball other than private schools. Nova is definitely the best job and they've gotten a great injection of support and facilities but they are a shadow of public schools on that level even mediocre basketball schools which just have way more resources and exponentially larger alumni base.
 
[quote="austour" post=396689]I think looking at the coaches hired between Looie and CMA it may be based on the level of coach that would be attracted to the job. There has been nary a marquee hire, the closest being Jarvis. Everyone else has been a regionally relevant hire at best or some level of reclamation project, and Mullin which made no sense at all.[/quote]

Post Carnesecca we have had the worst hires and firings in the league which tarnished the attractiveness of the job. The ten years under Norm Roberts and Chris Mullin set us back ten years with hardly any improvement. I don't buy the facilities excuse nor the lack of NYC talent. Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier and Villanova are not light years ahead of playing in the capital of the world. Some folks here have even gone wildly optimistic that Rick Pitino will turn a school like Iona (I O N A) into a nationally ranked program!
The only hires that made sense but all of whom had major flaws were Jarvis and Lavin. CMA is the most professional of the bunch but his assistants have to up their game in recruiting.
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=396708][quote="austour" post=396689]I think looking at the coaches hired between Looie and CMA it may be based on the level of coach that would be attracted to the job. There has been nary a marquee hire, the closest being Jarvis. Everyone else has been a regionally relevant hire at best or some level of reclamation project, and Mullin which made no sense at all.[/quote]

Post Carnesecca we have had the worst hires and firings in the league which tarnished the attractiveness of the job. The ten years under Norm Roberts and Chris Mullin set us back ten years with hardly any improvement. I don't buy the facilities excuse nor the lack of NYC talent. Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier and Villanova are not light years ahead of playing in the capital of the world. Some folks here have even gone wildly optimistic that Rick Pitino will turn a school like Iona (I O N A) into a nationally ranked program!
The only hires that made sense but all of whom had major flaws were Jarvis and Lavin. CMA is the most professional of the bunch but his assistants have to up their game in recruiting.[/quote]

accurate
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=396708][quote="austour" post=396689]I think looking at the coaches hired between Looie and CMA it may be based on the level of coach that would be attracted to the job. There has been nary a marquee hire, the closest being Jarvis. Everyone else has been a regionally relevant hire at best or some level of reclamation project, and Mullin which made no sense at all.[/quote]

Post Carnesecca we have had the worst hires and firings in the league which tarnished the attractiveness of the job. The ten years under Norm Roberts and Chris Mullin set us back ten years with hardly any improvement. I don't buy the facilities excuse nor the lack of NYC talent. Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier and Villanova are not light years ahead of playing in the capital of the world. Some folks here have even gone wildly optimistic that Rick Pitino will turn a school like Iona (I O N A) into a nationally ranked program!
The only hires that made sense but all of whom had major flaws were Jarvis and Lavin. CMA is the most professional of the bunch but his assistants have to up their game in recruiting.[/quote]

Agree with most of what you're saying, but I feel that Fran was a better hire(at the time) then Lavin. Hires ranked in terms of the amount of sense they made at the time:
1. CMA(especially considering other options)
2. Jarvis
3. Fran
4. Lavin
5. BM
6. Chris
7. Norm
 
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[quote="Monte" post=396731][quote="Class of 72" post=396708][quote="austour" post=396689]I think looking at the coaches hired between Looie and CMA it may be based on the level of coach that would be attracted to the job. There has been nary a marquee hire, the closest being Jarvis. Everyone else has been a regionally relevant hire at best or some level of reclamation project, and Mullin which made no sense at all.[/quote]

Post Carnesecca we have had the worst hires and firings in the league which tarnished the attractiveness of the job. The ten years under Norm Roberts and Chris Mullin set us back ten years with hardly any improvement. I don't buy the facilities excuse nor the lack of NYC talent. Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier and Villanova are not light years ahead of playing in the capital of the world. Some folks here have even gone wildly optimistic that Rick Pitino will turn a school like Iona (I O N A) into a nationally ranked program!
The only hires that made sense but all of whom had major flaws were Jarvis and Lavin. CMA is the most professional of the bunch but his assistants have to up their game in recruiting.[/quote]

Agree with most of what you're saying, but I feel that Fran was a better hire(at the time) then Lavin. Hires ranked in terms of the amount of sense they made at the time:
1. CMA(especially considering other options)
2. Jarvis
3. Fran
4. Lavin
5. BM
6. Chris
7. Norm[/quote]

While Fran was a knowledgeable coach and had Louie-like enthusiasm he was the quickest to betray his players and look for greener pastures. He failed to become an elite coach after leaving and does not make my list. I agree with your bottom three two of which where homer jobs that lacked any form of analysis of strengths and weaknesses.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=396734][quote="Monte" post=396731][quote="Class of 72" post=396708][quote="austour" post=396689]I think looking at the coaches hired between Looie and CMA it may be based on the level of coach that would be attracted to the job. There has been nary a marquee hire, the closest being Jarvis. Everyone else has been a regionally relevant hire at best or some level of reclamation project, and Mullin which made no sense at all.[/quote]

Post Carnesecca we have had the worst hires and firings in the league which tarnished the attractiveness of the job. The ten years under Norm Roberts and Chris Mullin set us back ten years with hardly any improvement. I don't buy the facilities excuse nor the lack of NYC talent. Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier and Villanova are not light years ahead of playing in the capital of the world. Some folks here have even gone wildly optimistic that Rick Pitino will turn a school like Iona (I O N A) into a nationally ranked program!
The only hires that made sense but all of whom had major flaws were Jarvis and Lavin. CMA is the most professional of the bunch but his assistants have to up their game in recruiting.[/quote]

Agree with most of what you're saying, but I feel that Fran was a better hire(at the time) then Lavin. Hires ranked in terms of the amount of sense they made at the time:
1. CMA(especially considering other options)
2. Jarvis
3. Fran
4. Lavin
5. BM
6. Chris
7. Norm[/quote]

While Fran was a knowledgeable coach and had Louie-like enthusiasm he was the quickest to betray his players and look for greener pastures. He failed to become an elite coach after leaving and does not make my list. I agree with your bottom three two of which where homer jobs that lacked any form of analysis of strengths and weaknesses.[/quote]

Fran's behavior/betrayal occurred after he was hired. My list was based on which hires made the most sense at the time they occurred . Fran looked good on paper when he was hired; successful at a mid-major, NY guy, engaging, Italian(lol), etc Unfortunately he turned out to be a very flawed human being.
 
Clearly we falsely overvalue st John's. Honestly by the time they dug up the #4 in wins we were already in decline and linger term fans weren't impressed.

To me our program is in a high level league but dies anyone give a crap that ccny or nyu once had great teams. No. Neither do our recruits.

And to be fair, going all the way back to Carnesecca's retirement, no one wanted this job.
 
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[quote="Monte" post=396731][quote="Class of 72" post=396708][quote="austour" post=396689]I think looking at the coaches hired between Looie and CMA it may be based on the level of coach that would be attracted to the job. There has been nary a marquee hire, the closest being Jarvis. Everyone else has been a regionally relevant hire at best or some level of reclamation project, and Mullin which made no sense at all.[/quote]

Post Carnesecca we have had the worst hires and firings in the league which tarnished the attractiveness of the job. The ten years under Norm Roberts and Chris Mullin set us back ten years with hardly any improvement. I don't buy the facilities excuse nor the lack of NYC talent. Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier and Villanova are not light years ahead of playing in the capital of the world. Some folks here have even gone wildly optimistic that Rick Pitino will turn a school like Iona (I O N A) into a nationally ranked program!
The only hires that made sense but all of whom had major flaws were Jarvis and Lavin. CMA is the most professional of the bunch but his assistants have to up their game in recruiting.[/quote]

Agree with most of what you're saying, but I feel that Fran was a better hire(at the time) then Lavin. Hires ranked in terms of the amount of sense they made at the time:
1. CMA(especially considering other options)
2. Jarvis
3. Fran
4. Lavin
5. BM
6. Chris
7. Norm[/quote]

I read the posts below and agree that Fran's red flags were after the hire. But why did he make sense? It certainly wasn't a sexy hire? Was he being chased by a bunch of other high majors? I don't even remember who the candidates were anymore but were there no bigger names interested? I understand that regionally it looked good but it also shows how low the program was targeting or am I misremembering. And yes Lavin was a warts and all kind of hire but it did signal an intention on trying to regain national relevancy. Hard to say who I'd rank higher now that I think about it. But those bottom three hires. STJ basketball in a nutshell.
 
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