Good post but how is it clear he is not a good shooter?
Rafael Pinzon
- Thread starter paultzman
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fat johnnie
Well-known member
I think a lot of that optimism comes from the fact that CMA threw him into the fire early which seems to signal that the coach who sees him everyday in practice sees something there worth developing. The kid has the size and he is decent with the ball plus he is a good passer. There is a lot to like as far as upside. Champ was ranked pretty low too so there is a recent precedent for a low ranked player to shine in CMA's system.
That's very fair I'm hoping he has more offensive upside than Mathis but lets say the 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench giving us 15-20 minutes a game I'd be happy with this year
Yeah I should have phrased that better. He is not a knock down shooter from my observation of seeing him play before he got here, speaking to others who saw him more than I did and his limited time here. Not saying he can’t or won’t improve but some were expecting a dead-eye, knock down shooter of which he was not, yet.
As he gets stronger, and more in D1 College shape he will continue to improve and will be a real nice player.
One thing that impressed me last year was that once we got in the half court he seemed to be in control and never rushed. I remember a few times when he was guarded by a shorter player and he backed him down and either got his shot, or when doubled, found the open man. I'm guessing he got that calmness from LuHi and his international play.
Here's the thing, if you think everyone is going to be Malik Sealy or Erick Barkeley you are bound to be perpetually disappointed, as you sometimes position yourself. I don't read the hype about Pinzon to be claiming he'll be either of those guys and is at best a borderline starter this year but more likely 6 or 7 man with the transfer pickups. But some of us get excited about having 6 or 7th guy who has a good skill set and lots of potential almost as much as securing the commitment of Madison Square Garderner. As the 4th guard he's in a great place to contribute. Find your joy, Monte!
I like Pinzon on the roster and think he's a talented kid. I see him as a high IQ, good shooter type. I do think his physical strength and defense need work. All said and done, I think Pinzon can become a real nice player.
To Monte's points (and for a few others, including myself, who have joked about this), the offseason over-hype of our players has seemingly become an annual exercise. It typically starts around now and reaches epic proportions in July and August. So, before we begin elevating kids beyond a fair expectation, it's helpful to remember that for some kids, Big East games represent the highest level of basketball they have ever played. So, a good rule of thumb is to temper expectations for freshmen, mid-major transfers, JUCOs, redshirts, and those with limited high major experience. Better to be surprised than disappointed!
To Monte's points (and for a few others, including myself, who have joked about this), the offseason over-hype of our players has seemingly become an annual exercise. It typically starts around now and reaches epic proportions in July and August. So, before we begin elevating kids beyond a fair expectation, it's helpful to remember that for some kids, Big East games represent the highest level of basketball they have ever played. So, a good rule of thumb is to temper expectations for freshmen, mid-major transfers, JUCOs, redshirts, and those with limited high major experience. Better to be surprised than disappointed!
L J S A
Well-known member
No, not directed at you. I just feel like more than half the fan base refuses to believe that any kid we have is good. He's smooth as hell, and I think he'll only look better playing with his old teammate.
I think he's a starter or sixth man depending on where Jones lines up and what CMA does with Wusu. We'll see how good Storr is and whether he can surpass Pinzon in the depth chart.
I just hope Mathis doesn't get any minutes that should go to Pinzon.
Pinzon has skills and good size. He can be as good as he wants to be.Evaluating talent is a skill
Bashir Ahmed, Vince Cole = overhyped. Would say Pinzon is more hopeful and justified optimism at this point.
Here's the thing, if you think everyone is going to be Malik Sealy or Erick Barkeley you are bound to be perpetually disappointed, as you sometimes position yourself. I don't read the hype about Pinzon to be claiming he'll be either of those guys and is at best a borderline starter this year but more likely 6 or 7 man with the transfer pickups. But some of us get excited about having 6 or 7th guy who has a good skill set and lots of potential almost as much as securing the commitment of Madison Square Garderner. As the 4th guard he's in a great place to contribute. Find your joy, Monte!
After reading some more of these posts, I now not only expect Pinzon to be in the running for national POY, I fully expect him to be nominated for a Tony award and possibly a noble peace prize. Hey, if he works hard enough anything is possible, right? Anyhow we'll talk about this again once next seasons starts, that is if you guys don't go crawl back under the rocks you came out from under 
L J S A
Well-known member
I'll be here unless I die between now and then. Look forward to one of us eating crow -- preferably you.Anyhow we'll talk about this again once next seasons starts, that is if you guys don't go crawl back under the rocks you came out from under
Reading these posts, I find myself becoming confused. When Pinzon was signed, I looked at him as being a piece in the program that Coach Anderson is building. Some here are judging him on last season, which I believe is unfair. He had an injury, Covid, then long term Covid. How can anyone assess him as a player with all that he had to go through. Y'all do realize that he was a freshman who really needed the practice to acclimate himself to Coach Anderson's system.
Two things that I respect about Pinzon, are his confidence and his commitment to St Johns. Pinzon played a part in convincing Curebelo to transfer to St Johns. This shows that he wants to help St Johns get better and is willing to do whatever it takes. He is confident enough to help recruit another guard knowing that basketball is a team game and you can never have enough good players.
What I find disturbing, is that some "fans" on here appear to be hoping that our players will fail and they can then justify their "HATING" on Coach Anderson. As for myself, I will continue to support St Johns basketball, coaches and players, which I see as my responsibility as a FAN.
Two things that I respect about Pinzon, are his confidence and his commitment to St Johns. Pinzon played a part in convincing Curebelo to transfer to St Johns. This shows that he wants to help St Johns get better and is willing to do whatever it takes. He is confident enough to help recruit another guard knowing that basketball is a team game and you can never have enough good players.
What I find disturbing, is that some "fans" on here appear to be hoping that our players will fail and they can then justify their "HATING" on Coach Anderson. As for myself, I will continue to support St Johns basketball, coaches and players, which I see as my responsibility as a FAN.
I have been a StJohn’s fan long enough to know that many of St. John’s “can’t miss” recruits unfortunately do miss (see: Alpha Bangura, Nurideen Lindsey, and others) so I now take the “wait and see” position for every recruit and second year player. Note the flip side it is also possible where a recruit exceeds expectations (see: Julian Champagnie). Predicting the success of a recruit is not exact. There are many factors that determime player development, many beyond the player’s control (ie. injuries).
I hope that Rafael develops into the big time player some posters in this this thread are predicting but I believe those posters predicting stardom are putting expteme pressure and expectations on him particularly since his first season in game experience was limited by issues beyond his control.
By all accounts Rafael is a smart- hard working kid who is easy to root for which is consistent with the players that CMA is bringing into the program. CMA roster for the upcoming season is deep enough to allow Rafael to develop at his own speed which I hope is rapid, but not be hurried along.
I hope that Rafael develops into the big time player some posters in this this thread are predicting but I believe those posters predicting stardom are putting expteme pressure and expectations on him particularly since his first season in game experience was limited by issues beyond his control.
By all accounts Rafael is a smart- hard working kid who is easy to root for which is consistent with the players that CMA is bringing into the program. CMA roster for the upcoming season is deep enough to allow Rafael to develop at his own speed which I hope is rapid, but not be hurried along.
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Looking at the thread, I don't think anyone is looking to throw rotten tomatoes. It's more a three-way tussle between the super optimistic, pragmatic, and pessimistic personalities. Of course, the extreme positions clash and the pragmatics attempt to set fair expectations.
Alas.....it's just typical offseason posting on a college basketball message board.
Alas.....it's just typical offseason posting on a college basketball message board.
“Go pragmatism”!