I know they finished Lavins first year ranked 18. Probably about as high as they got that year.
Questions On Our Previous Coaches
- Thread starter NCJohnnie
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I know they finished Lavins first year ranked 18. Probably about as high as they got that year.
Correct on both counts. In 2018-19 we beat ranked Marquette before getting ranked ourselves at #24. It was short lived as we fell out after losing both games the following week. In contrast were 3-2 against AP ranked teams.
Of course in 2010-11 we knocked off 6 AP ranked teams in Lavin’s first season.
*with Norm's seniors
I apologize in advance for the timing of this post during such a special season. But as I've enjoyed this run and reflected back on our recent history, a few questions came to mind, and wanted to bring it to the board before I forgot. Would appreciate anyone's insight into the following:
1) Why was Jarvis fired mid-season? Seems to be such a rarity to have a mid-season firing in college basketball, and obviously turned out to be a poor decision in retrospect.
2) Why did Norm get 6 years before being fired? Again, another rarity for a coach to get this long without any semblance of success.
3) Was Mullin actually serious about his intentions to want to keep the job for a 5th season?
1) Why was Jarvis fired mid-season? Seems to be such a rarity to have a mid-season firing in college basketball, and obviously turned out to be a poor decision in retrospect.
2) Why did Norm get 6 years before being fired? Again, another rarity for a coach to get this long without any semblance of success.
3) Was Mullin actually serious about his intentions to want to keep the job for a 5th season?
SeattleJohnny
Well-known member
1)The next season the Red Storm stumbled out of the gate, losing to several nonconference teams that they usually beat with ease. Jarvis was fired on December 19, 2003—the first Big East coach to be fired during the season. Assistant Kevin Clark replaced him for the remainder of the season. His final record at St. John's was 110–61.
It later emerged that school officials had fired Jarvis in part due to a series of embarrassing off-court incidents. Among these, a junior college transfer had been charged with assaulting a female student, and a senior guard had been kicked off the team after being caught smoking marijuana near St. John's campus in Queens.
During the 2003–04 season, St. John's center Abe Keita claimed that a member of Jarvis's basketball staff had paid him nearly $300 a month for the past four seasons. As a result, St. John's placed itself on two years' probation, withdrew from postseason consideration for the 2004–05 season, and forfeited 43 wins in which Keita participated. This included the team's NIT championship in 2003, making St. John's the third team in the history of the NIT to be forced to vacate its standing in the tournament; the two previous schools, Minnesota and Michigan, had also won the tournament in their respective years.
The NCAA accepted St. John's sanctions and faulted Jarvis for not properly monitoring Keita's situation, but otherwise cleared him of wrongdoing.[2] After his ouster, Jarvis was criticized for ignoring New York City's rich pool of high school players, which particularly rankled fans used to seeing national powerhouses built primarily on New York City talent.[3]
2) Rock bottom was three basketball players opting to celebrate a 20-point blowout loss at Pittsburgh by breaking curfew and sneaking off to a strip club called Club Erotica, bringing a working girl back to the Westin and ultimately finding themselves in the middle of an ugly, failed blackmail scheme. Mike Jarvis had already been dismissed a few months earlier, but the lingering lawlessness of his regime remained. Norm inherited this, and was given time to build the reputation and scholarship base back, as we had no player or recruits and sanctions.
3) Don't know
It later emerged that school officials had fired Jarvis in part due to a series of embarrassing off-court incidents. Among these, a junior college transfer had been charged with assaulting a female student, and a senior guard had been kicked off the team after being caught smoking marijuana near St. John's campus in Queens.
During the 2003–04 season, St. John's center Abe Keita claimed that a member of Jarvis's basketball staff had paid him nearly $300 a month for the past four seasons. As a result, St. John's placed itself on two years' probation, withdrew from postseason consideration for the 2004–05 season, and forfeited 43 wins in which Keita participated. This included the team's NIT championship in 2003, making St. John's the third team in the history of the NIT to be forced to vacate its standing in the tournament; the two previous schools, Minnesota and Michigan, had also won the tournament in their respective years.
The NCAA accepted St. John's sanctions and faulted Jarvis for not properly monitoring Keita's situation, but otherwise cleared him of wrongdoing.[2] After his ouster, Jarvis was criticized for ignoring New York City's rich pool of high school players, which particularly rankled fans used to seeing national powerhouses built primarily on New York City talent.[3]
2) Rock bottom was three basketball players opting to celebrate a 20-point blowout loss at Pittsburgh by breaking curfew and sneaking off to a strip club called Club Erotica, bringing a working girl back to the Westin and ultimately finding themselves in the middle of an ugly, failed blackmail scheme. Mike Jarvis had already been dismissed a few months earlier, but the lingering lawlessness of his regime remained. Norm inherited this, and was given time to build the reputation and scholarship base back, as we had no player or recruits and sanctions.
3) Don't know
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1. Arrogance, flirtation w NBA, manipulative agent.
2. Less than prescient administration.
3. No clue, but bet he was relieved to relinquish a job he really never was suited for or wanted. Joe Oliva it appears thought otherwise.
Y
You just ruined my vacation with ptsd
1. SeattleJohnny and Paultzman you left out gross insubordination.
2. Due to the stench and sanctions left behind by Jarvis, Norm was given more leeway as he removed the stench of the off court issues and no more embarrassing issues there. There are some, albeit in the minority, who feel he should have gotten one more year to coach his seniors which was the best team he had.
3). Don’t know.
2. Due to the stench and sanctions left behind by Jarvis, Norm was given more leeway as he removed the stench of the off court issues and no more embarrassing issues there. There are some, albeit in the minority, who feel he should have gotten one more year to coach his seniors which was the best team he had.
3). Don’t know.
1) Our fans are insane. They were chanting "Fire Jarvis" a year after making the NCAA tournament and the same year we won the NIT. Firing anyone mid-year is absolutely insane and it ruined our program for 2 decades. We would have been exponentially better off if we just let him keep coaching until he was done and invested in the program. We had no budget and no facilities and he was still bringing in top talent.
2) I can't bring myself to think about Norm.
Thanks, I was able to find that on Wikipedia too lol, but I figured there had to be more to the story.
L J S A
Well-known member
*Who Norm had absolutely no clue what to do with.
Man, you should have asked about Fran also
That season was lost and Jarvis was already toast the morning of March 2, 2003. 12-12, 5-9 BE, No good wins and bad losses at home to Manhattan, Providence and Va Tech. I was one of the ones calling for his head from afar . Then Hatten went nuclear on Duke and a false hope was lit and then stoked by beating a ranked ND in the 1st round of the BET and going on to win the NIT on Marcus' back. and one of Elijah's best games vs ND. He still should have been fired that year. He had clearly lost the team, the city, the SJU admin and the local HS coaches. Other schools were eating his lunch getting NYC kids. He had no future. And it would have been fortuitous as Pittsburgh never would have happened and the program's fortunes would have been quite different. I loved Marcus, I blame Marcus. The only good thing about that season was the visit to Pauley, for obvious reasons.
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The thing with Jarvis and I was actually pissed after we won the NIT ( I was happy we beat gtown though because I won a huge bet ) but he stopped recruiting. It was just as easy to see our downward trajectory and how it was going to get worse as it was for you and others to see Norm the disaster the day he got hired
My anger at Jarvis left the first year of Lavin but the stories of him and HS recruits were very real
In hindsight if he got the Wizard job we’d be in basketball blue blood ecstasy
With Jay Wrigjt probably, another bad turn in the road we became accustomed to.
L J S A
Well-known member
And Jason Fraser fulfills potential because he never ends up at the place where he destroyed his knees.
A friend of all ours on this board will make everyone puke with stories of what and who could have happened and who would have come play