Questions for Next Year
- Thread starter paultzman
- Start date
Zach Braziller wrote:
Support lacking
That’s you, Johnnies fans. This year didn’t go as you planned. You wanted better results, expected a berth in The Big Dance. That doesn’t exclude your performance, however. It doesn’t explain just 6,739 showing up to the upset win over Creighton, 6,707 for the must-win game against Xavier, or being drowned out by Providence’s faithful fans on Thursday. So many other schools sell their arenas out — the Marquettes, Xaviers and Villanovas of the league.
While St. John’s played very well at the Garden all year, going 14-4, the crowds were as much a disappointment as the team. It took Syracuse and its large alumni base to fill it up in December.
I was at all three games referenced in this article and I have to say that he is spot on about the lack of local support for this team. In all three games the crowds were disappointing but yesterday's game when looked at in the context of support for Villanova, Seton Hall and Providence at MSG was the most glaring sign of St. John's fan apathy I have seen in a long while.
Support lacking
That’s you, Johnnies fans. This year didn’t go as you planned. You wanted better results, expected a berth in The Big Dance. That doesn’t exclude your performance, however. It doesn’t explain just 6,739 showing up to the upset win over Creighton, 6,707 for the must-win game against Xavier, or being drowned out by Providence’s faithful fans on Thursday. So many other schools sell their arenas out — the Marquettes, Xaviers and Villanovas of the league.
While St. John’s played very well at the Garden all year, going 14-4, the crowds were as much a disappointment as the team. It took Syracuse and its large alumni base to fill it up in December.
I was at all three games referenced in this article and I have to say that he is spot on about the lack of local support for this team. In all three games the crowds were disappointing but yesterday's game when looked at in the context of support for Villanova, Seton Hall and Providence at MSG was the most glaring sign of St. John's fan apathy I have seen in a long while.
BK 8664 Wrote:
Can you really find fault with the lack of fans?
It is not a matter of fault or blame for me. People can and obviously do choose not to come to support the team. I am not judging them, but for people like me who do attend the games it is hard to reconcile such an important game so close to campus and then seeing the building is filled with Villanova, Seton Hall and Providence fans (in that order) and seeing St. John's have such a tiny presence there. Especially in their own building, so close to home and in essentially a play in game for the NCAA. tournament I was surprised and disappointed that we were outdrawn by the other three schools in the day session.
People here were very critical of the team being flat yesterday (rightly so). I understand it and agree, but if the team was flat so then was our fan base. For me I did not mind watching the two games with fans from Nova, The hall and Providence but it would have been nice to see some red in the building. I am sure the team was not emboldened by the crowd support yesterday. No blame here, just an observation although a disappointing one.
Can you really find fault with the lack of fans?
It is not a matter of fault or blame for me. People can and obviously do choose not to come to support the team. I am not judging them, but for people like me who do attend the games it is hard to reconcile such an important game so close to campus and then seeing the building is filled with Villanova, Seton Hall and Providence fans (in that order) and seeing St. John's have such a tiny presence there. Especially in their own building, so close to home and in essentially a play in game for the NCAA. tournament I was surprised and disappointed that we were outdrawn by the other three schools in the day session.
People here were very critical of the team being flat yesterday (rightly so). I understand it and agree, but if the team was flat so then was our fan base. For me I did not mind watching the two games with fans from Nova, The hall and Providence but it would have been nice to see some red in the building. I am sure the team was not emboldened by the crowd support yesterday. No blame here, just an observation although a disappointing one.
Just took a peek at the roster.
We lose two big body`s in Sanchez and GG.
Next year, I`m hoping that Jones grows an inch or 2, and we better get Adonis or we are in trouble.
We`d Have Sampson 6`9, CO 6`9, and Jones who`s 6`7 this year.
Now if we lose Obekpa that might means 2 or 3 less wins next year. Anyone think we`ll even get 20 wins next year if we lose CO?
Harrison better turn into Kemba Walker then.
We lose two big body`s in Sanchez and GG.
Next year, I`m hoping that Jones grows an inch or 2, and we better get Adonis or we are in trouble.
We`d Have Sampson 6`9, CO 6`9, and Jones who`s 6`7 this year.
Now if we lose Obekpa that might means 2 or 3 less wins next year. Anyone think we`ll even get 20 wins next year if we lose CO?
Harrison better turn into Kemba Walker then.
beast of the east
Active member
Yes. How can we possibly expect the school to invest in taking the program to the next level when fans won't come out to support the team. Almost all season there were a plethora of cheap ticket options available. Except for a stumble at Georgetown every Garden game was competitive. Up until the final buzzer on Thursday we were in the hunt for an NCAA bid and had a team that everyone says was the deepest in the league. Considering our strong local alumni base, large student population, and fact that historically have many fans who didn't attend St. john's follow the team, our attendance is anemic. Considering we play the bulk of our games in a totally renovated Garden with direct access from Amtrak, LIRR, and subways, attendance is horrible. Just look at Creighton - not exactly a bastion of basketball lore - and they managed more fans to travel cross country than we did over a river. I'd bet that for each of those fans, the average cost of coming to the BET has to be in the 1500-2000 range with plane tix, local transportation to/from airports, meals, BET tix, and some sightseeing. I'm guessing they have a very small alumni base here, and Omaha is a small city, yet they pack it in there. The home court advantage in basketball is enormous compared to some other sports. I'm going to take a wild guess and say if we had sold out our entire schedule, and provided a homecourt filled with loud, passionate fans, this team, yes THIS TEAM, would easily have won two more conference games to put us in the dance. That's not even to include that DC, Philly, Secaucus, Providence are all within driving distance and no real reason why we couldn't get 1500 fans to those games. UCONN and Syracuse treated our home courts like theirs had something to do with them overrunning the place with their fans. Yes our team fell short, but our fans fell shorter.
tom in salem
Well-known member
My wife and I try to attend a few games each year as an aside to visiting our son who lives in Brooklyn.
He a lifer who had SJU student tickets although he attended a another NYC college (thank you Dennis Myron)
This is the first year we never made it to the Garden.
Our son has my fervor (youth is a great thing thing) and as we prepared for our trip down for the nova game, he told us to ditch the tickets.
He didn't want to go ( it was right after the Gtown fiasco (where Felix and Ndiaye started.)
He raved about how he couldn't stand watching a team where Greene and Pointer were getting as many minutes as Jordan.
He really is anti Lavin and we instead of going to the game we watched it @ a local sports bar.
It was so frustrating to watch Hooper play 18 minutes, Pointer 26 minutes and watch Phil Greene be Phil Greene.
At that point we were extremely happy not to be at the Garden.
We were the only people in the place watching the game (actually had to ask them to put it on).
This is a place our son and friends go to to watch SJU away games.
He remembers the Pitt game of 4 years ago (I think he went with tickets purchased from Afredo-I know they were in 114) as the highlight of Lavin's tenure.
He's now totally off the train and done with SJU until there is a coaching change.
I love him to death so I'm not objective about what he says, but I trust him when he tells us SJU has lost the casual local fan because they're just not fun to watch anymore (unlike the Hardy team.)
Just one SJU's family's opinion on the state of SJU hoops.
ZanMan
Well-known member
I totally disagree with this guy.
What about the school's role in alienating the fans? They drove loyal season ticket holders away (I am one of them) with their ridiculous point system years ago when they were a crappy team. They don't give students any incentives to come to a game. How about free tickets, trasportation and food vouchers?
They don't give their alums who mostly live in the general area any incentives to attend a game. How about ticket discounts or a free ticket for an alum's child?
There are so many creative ways to fill the stands up with fans and create a new generation of Redmen fans, but instead the school sits there raising ticket prices proudly riding one Final Four appearance 30 years ago.
Sorry, that isn't the fans' fault. It is the school's fault.
Also, many games were at horrific days and times this season. Sunday night at 7:00 pm? Who the hell is going to take the family to those games?
And lastly, NYC is simply NOT a college sports town. With 1,001 possible things for people to do on any given night, 6,000 fans is actually a pretty good #. This isn't Syracuse where 30,000 people show up to the Carrier Dome because their alternative is to drink at the bar or sit at home and watch the snow melt.
If you expect 12,000 fans for a game in NYC, you better be a perennial tourney team who makes a legit run at the Final Four each year, or you better make your product much more affordable and accessible. Otherwise, 6,000 fans is what you are going to get, and that's still when the team is winning 20 games a season.
And by the way, we were not outnumbered by PC fans Thursday. Not even close IMO. They were just much louder because their team wasn't sleepwalking like our team was.
What about the school's role in alienating the fans? They drove loyal season ticket holders away (I am one of them) with their ridiculous point system years ago when they were a crappy team. They don't give students any incentives to come to a game. How about free tickets, trasportation and food vouchers?
They don't give their alums who mostly live in the general area any incentives to attend a game. How about ticket discounts or a free ticket for an alum's child?
There are so many creative ways to fill the stands up with fans and create a new generation of Redmen fans, but instead the school sits there raising ticket prices proudly riding one Final Four appearance 30 years ago.
Sorry, that isn't the fans' fault. It is the school's fault.
Also, many games were at horrific days and times this season. Sunday night at 7:00 pm? Who the hell is going to take the family to those games?
And lastly, NYC is simply NOT a college sports town. With 1,001 possible things for people to do on any given night, 6,000 fans is actually a pretty good #. This isn't Syracuse where 30,000 people show up to the Carrier Dome because their alternative is to drink at the bar or sit at home and watch the snow melt.
If you expect 12,000 fans for a game in NYC, you better be a perennial tourney team who makes a legit run at the Final Four each year, or you better make your product much more affordable and accessible. Otherwise, 6,000 fans is what you are going to get, and that's still when the team is winning 20 games a season.
And by the way, we were not outnumbered by PC fans Thursday. Not even close IMO. They were just much louder because their team wasn't sleepwalking like our team was.
guinness77
Well-known member
ZanMan's post is spot on.
I'm so sick of these excuses. I don't care if no one is there, if you can't get up mentally for what's basically a play-in NCAA Tournament game, you don't deserve to dance. It's a mentally fragile team.
And...how does a coach tell the media "we're already in the Tournament, winning this game doesn't matter"? Even if its some tactic to "calm" your players, what does that say?
Us fans keep getting fed a line of BS every freaking year, and every freaking year we are left disappointed. How do you expect "casual" fans to show up to something most people in this city, frankly, don't care about when there's a thousand other things to do in this city? I've been a fan of this team since I was 8 damn years old. I had a Mullin jersey and besides Boo Harvey, the 2 Elite Eight years and the DHardy team, it's disappointment, disappointment, disappointment.
We are not an elite program, I don't care how many wins we have from 50 years ago, we are what we are. I'll be right back here when we play next week, because I'll always be here, but this vicious cycle is getting tiresome.
I'm so sick of these excuses. I don't care if no one is there, if you can't get up mentally for what's basically a play-in NCAA Tournament game, you don't deserve to dance. It's a mentally fragile team.
And...how does a coach tell the media "we're already in the Tournament, winning this game doesn't matter"? Even if its some tactic to "calm" your players, what does that say?
Us fans keep getting fed a line of BS every freaking year, and every freaking year we are left disappointed. How do you expect "casual" fans to show up to something most people in this city, frankly, don't care about when there's a thousand other things to do in this city? I've been a fan of this team since I was 8 damn years old. I had a Mullin jersey and besides Boo Harvey, the 2 Elite Eight years and the DHardy team, it's disappointment, disappointment, disappointment.
We are not an elite program, I don't care how many wins we have from 50 years ago, we are what we are. I'll be right back here when we play next week, because I'll always be here, but this vicious cycle is getting tiresome.
beast of the east
Active member
There was a point in the game, leading up to the possession where Sampson missed from the left side, where our entire fan base should have been on their feet exhorting the team on. The student section tried to rock the place with a dee-fense chant, but it was weak. One of the real, tangible benefits of a full court press when you are the visiting team, is that fans are so loud, so engaged, that you can't even hear your teammates call for the ball and you get totally rattled. I agree that Providence's presence was largely limited to a well represented student section behind the basket, and that we had more fans, but the fan presence wasn't good.
In terms of the school alienating fans, I agree that they did and I'm still ticked, BUT just about every school in the country did the same thing. I have friends in Kansas who have had season tix for Kansas bball for 30+ years. The husband is on faculty there, and his father was the time keeper for ever. Guess what - they got moved after the school went to a point system and jacked prices. SJU's error was that they made these changes even as the program sagged. First they moved all long time fans out of courtside bleachers to create a failed student section (many if not most cancelled right there), then they went to a point system and displaced fans on the other side. To be honest I had a lot of friends who lost seat locations who never donated a dime and felt their donation were their tickets. You do know that our alumni are horrible donors, with less than 20% supporting the school. if you've paid attention the school has tried a lot of things to engage alumni.
To add to Zanman's reaaly good post, the guys from section 1114 had a discussion of how SJU does not do nearly enough to build good will with fans, and cultivate young fans.
Games at CA, should not cost anywhere close to the Garden games. Entice parents to bring kids by charging them less. Get them rooting for SJU as early as possible. Even if the kid never goes to SJU, they will always be a fan.
But this university does things backwards. They expect the consumer to spend money first, then invest. That is not how it works. Charles Wang and the Wilpons conduct business that way. And as a fan of those unfortunate franchises, you do not want to be in the same planet as those two.
Need to be proactive. Make the consumer excited about spending money on all things SJU. Maybe they could start by producing better TV spots. The current ones are hideous. If a communications major submitted those ads as a final, I would have to grade on a bell curve just to give it a "C." You are in NY afterall, now go act like it.
Yes, I am still seething over this season.
Games at CA, should not cost anywhere close to the Garden games. Entice parents to bring kids by charging them less. Get them rooting for SJU as early as possible. Even if the kid never goes to SJU, they will always be a fan.
But this university does things backwards. They expect the consumer to spend money first, then invest. That is not how it works. Charles Wang and the Wilpons conduct business that way. And as a fan of those unfortunate franchises, you do not want to be in the same planet as those two.
Need to be proactive. Make the consumer excited about spending money on all things SJU. Maybe they could start by producing better TV spots. The current ones are hideous. If a communications major submitted those ads as a final, I would have to grade on a bell curve just to give it a "C." You are in NY afterall, now go act like it.
Yes, I am still seething over this season.
guinness77
Well-known member
Beast...I agree with the jist of your post, but to compare us to Kansas is like comparing just another building in NYC to the Empire State Building. Kansas, or any other college basketball team like them, can get away with that because, well, they're Kansas.
Edit, to add to Kranmars post, I became a St. John's fan because they were winning. Winning, whether its right or wrong, solves a lot of these issues. Although the school should listen to guys like you and ZanMan. They are all good ideas.
Edit, to add to Kranmars post, I became a St. John's fan because they were winning. Winning, whether its right or wrong, solves a lot of these issues. Although the school should listen to guys like you and ZanMan. They are all good ideas.
beast of the east
Active member
No doubt, it's true. The worst thing about SJU's changes that they all occurred as the team was sliding and they should not have been doing anything to alienate long time fans who went into a trance reaching for the checkbooks each year to buy season tix.
It's a mom and pop operation. I was happy to see the steps we took forward with the ad campaigns (We are NY's team), but there are still so many problems. Don't see any incentive for a person to buy season tickets, first of all, when ticket deals are constantly being offered for the same seats for cheaper.