Questions/Concerns about this team..
- Thread starter monte
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Starting last season the missing links seem to be who is the third scorer to take some pressure off Julian and Posh and what to do about the middle. Some prognosticated that oft injured Greg (who I valued) could fill the former and the latter was a question mark. Early, but seems fair to say both areas remain glaring voids. Rebounding is especially troubling. This team is not good enough to give so many chances to a Kansas, let alone mediocre teams they have struggled with.
We also seem to drop an ooc game we are favored to win. Lose to a Pitt, Monmouth or Colgate and it becomes extremely challenging position heading into BE play. Stating obvious, but it is time to show a sense of urgency. This playing down to our opponents level theory is absurd. Get it done impressively or prepare for strong possibility of another non Dance year.
Sabbatical time for me seems prudent. Breaks sometimes are refreshing.
We also seem to drop an ooc game we are favored to win. Lose to a Pitt, Monmouth or Colgate and it becomes extremely challenging position heading into BE play. Stating obvious, but it is time to show a sense of urgency. This playing down to our opponents level theory is absurd. Get it done impressively or prepare for strong possibility of another non Dance year.
Sabbatical time for me seems prudent. Breaks sometimes are refreshing.
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Paultzman post=445242 said:
To your point re: playing with sense of urgency, we need to get back to playing with a chip on our shoulder. Think that is one thing that helped drive us to exceed expectations last year. Of course, we also need some roles to either be redefined or reinforced.
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Paultzman post=445242 said:Starting last season the missing links seem to be who is the third scorer to take some pressure off Julian and Posh and what to do about the middle. Some prognosticated that oft injured Greg (who I valued) could fill the former and the latter was a question mark. Early, but seems fair to say both areas remain glaring voids. Rebounding is especially troubling. This team is not good enough to give so many chances to a Kansas, let alone mediocre teams they have struggled with.
We also seem to drop an ooc game we are favored to win. Lose to a Pitt, Monmouth or Colgate and it becomes extremely challenging position heading into BE play. Stating obvious, but it is time to show a sense of urgency. This playing down to our opponents level theory is absurd. Get it done impressively or prepare for strong possibility of another non Dance year.
Sabbatical time for me seems prudent. Breaks sometimes are refreshing.
Don't be gone too long. In the meantime Dee's triple and quintuple posts will pick up the slack./media/kunena/emoticons/silly.png
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beast of the east
Active member
I certainly understand the disappointment of playing so poorly last night. I was there and we never really were in the game. Yea, we cut it to three, and yea, maybe Julian should have stayed in a little longer when we did.
But, anyone could tell that we were playing a team that can compete for the championship and we just aren't at that level .
By Dec 17th of last year we were 0-4 against high D1 competition, having lost to BYU, Seton Hall, Georgetown, and getting whipped by #9 Creighton.
To suggest that any guys from last year's roster who departed would have fared better against Kansas (preseason #3) is speculative at best with no good reason to assure that.
To suggest firing CMA is fairly ridiculous, though predictable from some of our posters.
10,000 fans showed up at UBS to watch this game. About 9000 were not season ticket holders. Most of them were younger (thank God) and listening to them in the arena, in the rotunda, and walking out, they know basketball and know our program. Over 1000 students showed up and were loud (but way too far from the court). To suggest that fans are bailing on this team after last night is silly. I see the opposite, that last night showed that we can draw 10,000 mostly new fans to a suburban arena for an unproven SJU team.
SJU lobbied to play Kansas in this challenge, and as far as I'm concerned, this was like a pop quiz early in the semester that was really really hard and we weren't ready for. It is a great litmus test of where we have to be to compete for a championship. It does not mean this isn't one of 64 teams to play in March. A lot of at large bid teams would get totally outplayed by Kansas - we have a lot of work to do.
Plus side, Bill Wennington, still recovering from his foot issue, was in town and was engaging to all at the pregame. He is a great guy who loves SJU. Jayson Williams also was there and also a terrific guy. A slew of former players showed up, a great sign of what is building here.
Disappointed at the result? Of course. Could we beat them in March - possibly but probably not. Same goes for last year's team.
But, anyone could tell that we were playing a team that can compete for the championship and we just aren't at that level .
By Dec 17th of last year we were 0-4 against high D1 competition, having lost to BYU, Seton Hall, Georgetown, and getting whipped by #9 Creighton.
To suggest that any guys from last year's roster who departed would have fared better against Kansas (preseason #3) is speculative at best with no good reason to assure that.
To suggest firing CMA is fairly ridiculous, though predictable from some of our posters.
10,000 fans showed up at UBS to watch this game. About 9000 were not season ticket holders. Most of them were younger (thank God) and listening to them in the arena, in the rotunda, and walking out, they know basketball and know our program. Over 1000 students showed up and were loud (but way too far from the court). To suggest that fans are bailing on this team after last night is silly. I see the opposite, that last night showed that we can draw 10,000 mostly new fans to a suburban arena for an unproven SJU team.
SJU lobbied to play Kansas in this challenge, and as far as I'm concerned, this was like a pop quiz early in the semester that was really really hard and we weren't ready for. It is a great litmus test of where we have to be to compete for a championship. It does not mean this isn't one of 64 teams to play in March. A lot of at large bid teams would get totally outplayed by Kansas - we have a lot of work to do.
Plus side, Bill Wennington, still recovering from his foot issue, was in town and was engaging to all at the pregame. He is a great guy who loves SJU. Jayson Williams also was there and also a terrific guy. A slew of former players showed up, a great sign of what is building here.
Disappointed at the result? Of course. Could we beat them in March - possibly but probably not. Same goes for last year's team.
I don't know whether last year's team would have fared better or worse against Kansas. All I know is that the more I watch this team, the more I feel last year's team was more balanced and better. Time will tell if I'm right or wrong. What's really pathetic is that, in year 3, we are still hoping that this year's team is better then a team which was not even good enough to make the tournament.Beast of the East post=445255 said:
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beast of the east
Active member
You are talking about the finished product of last years team. Look at their record as of Dec 15th, 2020. We need to attract better talent, that's clear. To me, the only clear cut talent loss is Moore, despite how much fans liked the pt play of earlington and GWIII. By the 4th year, even Norm had assembled talent (which he unfortunately could not coach). We need at least 2 home run recruits for next season, either incoming freshman or transfers.Monte post=445262 said:
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I still think it’s far too early to conclude this group of transfers can’t be better than those who left. But aside from talent level there’s just some intangibles that those guys brought that helped us play the way we played best. Just some that come to mind;
-Dunn’s willingness and ability to play full court D. Does Smith have that? Our intensity is not the same, but it picks up when Wusu comes in.
-Williams’s ability to have an impact on the game without taking many shots. Can Coburn and Mathis play minutes if their shots aren’t falling?
- Moore’s above the rim play. Easy buckets + momentum. Soriano has been inconsistent. Wheeler uninspiring. Stanley inexperienced.
-Earlington gave us flexibility upfront. A bigger body who could drag their center out of paint but also bang a little. Not sure what gave people the impression Wheeler would be the better player of the two, but it’s certainly not in that role.
This years version hasn’t found how they play best yet. It might be a different style than last but that’s not that all surprising considering it’s 8 new players. Still confident we will find our stride. So important to take care of rest of the OOC games.
-Dunn’s willingness and ability to play full court D. Does Smith have that? Our intensity is not the same, but it picks up when Wusu comes in.
-Williams’s ability to have an impact on the game without taking many shots. Can Coburn and Mathis play minutes if their shots aren’t falling?
- Moore’s above the rim play. Easy buckets + momentum. Soriano has been inconsistent. Wheeler uninspiring. Stanley inexperienced.
-Earlington gave us flexibility upfront. A bigger body who could drag their center out of paint but also bang a little. Not sure what gave people the impression Wheeler would be the better player of the two, but it’s certainly not in that role.
This years version hasn’t found how they play best yet. It might be a different style than last but that’s not that all surprising considering it’s 8 new players. Still confident we will find our stride. So important to take care of rest of the OOC games.
I'm not comparing last years finished product to this years team right now. Yes Champ and Posh are a year older and hopefully will have better seasons then last, but IMO last year's supporting cast was better all around, and much better for CMA's system, then this year's supporting cast. I think Amase breaks down the differences very well in his post.Beast of the East post=445263 said:
I had a dream that when it got down to 3 , Dunn was on the Court clapping his hands and pounding the floor . Earlington had just hit 2 long Bombs and pulled Braun away from the basket . GWill skied over everyone for a highlight dunk and the UBS Arena was out of its mind with Johnnie Comeback . Posh and Dunn were in the game together and they tormented the Kansas guards into turnovers . Champ took a 30 second blow and was back in on the next dead ball . We win !
Now that this team is predictably struggling early there is a strawman comparison of last years November and December team - before it gelled, to this years team. And the overall point that seems to be going on is that this years team might come together at some point too. I sure hope so. But also that if we kept everyone nothing would be different right now. That I can't agree with.
It seems like an odd way to look at it. Last years players didn't graduate and move on from the college game they transferred out. If CMA had been able to retain them they would all be here. Why would a totally intact team revert back to playing like they did last November? At the very least they would be able to play at the level they ended the season at. If CMA is half the coach I think he is they would be even better.
It was very unpopular around here last off season, very unpopular, to suggest that letting almost an entire team transfer out was not a good idea. And sorry, and I like CMA, and think the idea of another coach right now is insane, but it's on him. You have to recruit and retain players. When the exodus began there needed to be a point where CMA could have sold a few of these guys on the fact that there would be plenty of playing time if they stayed. Remember, Julian wasn't even a lock, by far, to stay.
It's actually still early, win the rest of these OOC games and go from there and the team could still conceivably do well. And maybe all of these new guys are better than they look, but I don't think it's controversial to say right now they don't look like much. Three guys stood out to me last night - that's it. Those three were the three returning players.
It seems like an odd way to look at it. Last years players didn't graduate and move on from the college game they transferred out. If CMA had been able to retain them they would all be here. Why would a totally intact team revert back to playing like they did last November? At the very least they would be able to play at the level they ended the season at. If CMA is half the coach I think he is they would be even better.
It was very unpopular around here last off season, very unpopular, to suggest that letting almost an entire team transfer out was not a good idea. And sorry, and I like CMA, and think the idea of another coach right now is insane, but it's on him. You have to recruit and retain players. When the exodus began there needed to be a point where CMA could have sold a few of these guys on the fact that there would be plenty of playing time if they stayed. Remember, Julian wasn't even a lock, by far, to stay.
It's actually still early, win the rest of these OOC games and go from there and the team could still conceivably do well. And maybe all of these new guys are better than they look, but I don't think it's controversial to say right now they don't look like much. Three guys stood out to me last night - that's it. Those three were the three returning players.
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Spot on post IDRAFT, all of it. And yes, any criticism of CMA has been extremely unpopular in the past. Not that I give a flying F, I call it as I see it. I've praised CMA for a lot of things, and have been harshly critical of other things. Especially the roster turnover, in spite of what all the apologists have to say. Anyhow, I still think CMA is a good coach, but unless he ups the talent level, and unless he retains that talent, he will not consistently get us to the dance. Which is, to me, where the bar should be set.IDRAFT post=445289 said:
beast of the east
Active member
I had employees and customers in Kansas, Missouri, and Arkansas. It was nice hearing from old friends in Kansas yesterday before the game who went to KU and follow their sports. The fans in Missouri and Arkansas both though Anderson is a good coach but not a great recruiter, which I posted after his hire. His job has to be to upgrade talent and I believe he knows that.Monte post=445292 said:
As of now we dont board or protect the rim. I am happy with coach but don't think we have a good year. We will win some games vs. teams that don't attack our weeknesses. Coach brought in some dead wood that are here short term. I hope coach can surprise me by coaching his ass off. Go team.