Progression or Regression

[paultzman]

I'm afraid that this new rule will just allow the rich to get richer. It's free agency every single year for players. This will not help us at all IMO. 

 

Agree, teams with diamonds in the rough will be poached, much like the predatory stuff that hurt low D1 programs like Robert Morris, Sacred Heart, etc. They worked hard to land under recruited kids who blossomed there, only to be seduced by better level programs after a year. 

Also, rest assured the better programs have the re$sources to play the poaching game year round and more effectively than cash strapped programs.

 

[beast of the east]

I just wonder how many elite coaches, if judged by their team's performance 6 games into their second season's conference schedule, would also be judged harshly.   

Granted, for every guy fired in year 4 or 5, likely the performance was not good in year 1 or 2, and their terminations often seem 1 or 2 seasons late (see NR after 6 seasons).

Criticism is valid for fans.   I can pretty much guarantee that CMA and staff are inwardly not happy with the team's performance.   Our only response is complaining publicly.    Their response is working hard in practice, continue teaching, make lineup changes when appropriate, and continually evaluate which of their guys should have a role going forward.   

This is all pretty standard in the life of a coach.

Years ago I attended a coaching clinic at CA that Norm Roberts hosted for CYO coaches in the Brooklyn Queens diocese.   Bittersweet memory is that Glen Williams was a CYO coach in attendance, and Norm called him out of the stands to demonstrate a particular skill.   Glen is gone way too soon.   But I digress.

Norm said something poignant to CYO coaches in attendance:  "What you guys are trying to do with your kids, teaching them basketball, and helpping them grow as young adults is not much different than what I am doing here at St. John's.   We are all coaches.   The main difference is though, I get paid a lot of money to do my job, and if I don't win enough, they can fire me."

CMA knows this and can take the heat.  After a lifetime in basketball, he is used to it, knows it, and understands it.

We all wish him well.

 

[TonyinFairfield]

I just wonder how many elite coaches, if judged by their team's performance 6 games into their second season's conference schedule, would also be judged harshly.   

Granted, for every guy fired in year 4 or 5, likely the performance was not good in year 1 or 2, and their terminations often seem 1 or 2 seasons late (see NR after 6 seasons).

Criticism is valid for fans.   I can pretty much guarantee that CMA and staff are inwardly not happy with the team's performance.   Our only response is complaining publicly.    Their response is working hard in practice, continue teaching, make lineup changes when appropriate, and continually evaluate which of their guys should have a role going forward.   

This is all pretty standard in the life of a coach.

Years ago I attended a coaching clinic at CA that Norm Roberts hosted for CYO coaches in the Brooklyn Queens diocese.   Bittersweet memory is that Glen Williams was a CYO coach in attendance, and Norm called him out of the stands to demonstrate a particular skill.   Glen is gone way too soon.   But I digress.

Norm said something poignant to CYO coaches in attendance:  "What you guys are trying to do with your kids, teaching them basketball, and helpping them grow as young adults is not much different than what I am doing here at St. John's.   We are all coaches.   The main difference is though, I get paid a lot of money to do my job, and if I don't win enough, they can fire me."

CMA knows this and can take the heat.  After a lifetime in basketball, he is used to it, knows it, and understands it.

We all wish him well.

Well said, Beast. I agree 100%. 

 

[Delaware]

usguard wrote: We have been waiting over a decade how long is enough
look I said,give the coach this season and next so how long do you want to wait mo this season and next is enough


Look, everyone is disappointed with this year's performance to date, but imho any new coach taking over a program as troubled as ours gets 4 years to turn things around. CMA is not responsible for how long we've been waiting for a winner. I will say that if we don't see a solid season next year (well over .500 overall), doubts will justifiably set in given how many upperclassmen we should have.  

I think that's very fair. I know I'm down on the team and the staff, especially with regard to recruiting, but not all rebuilds are a straight line up. At this point, I hope we can salvage some of what's left of this season, but I'm expecting that we'll finish somewhere between 9th and 11th place. Next year CMA will have mostly his own kids on the roster, and I think at that point we should be able to move up to the middle of the Big East pack and make the NIT.  By next year we'll have a better indication of whether or not CMA can right this ship. We have no choice at this point but to wait and hope for this best. 



 

Maybe it's just me, but with this free transfer rule coming up, the losing we've gone through, and the apparent lack of chemistry with the current roster, I'm pretty nervous about how many kids will bolt. 

I'm just worried about one.
 

 

[GardenCity62]

One reason for the regression is the lack of effort this years team seems to put out as compared to last years and one of the main reasons for that is this years team misses Rutherford. I am surprised at the degree he is missed because he didn't play that many minutes or score that many points but when he was on the floor the intensity of the whole team went up a notch.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

One reason for the regression is the lack of effort this years team seems to put out as compared to last years and one of the main reasons for that is this years team misses Rutherford. I am surprised at the degree he is missed because he didn't play that many minutes or score that many points but when he was on the floor the intensity of the whole team went up a notch.

The only counterpoint I’ll make is that the guy relaxing Rutherford also has a non stop motor. I think it’s more missing LJ on defense. But people don’t want to hear that.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

One reason for the regression is the lack of effort this years team seems to put out as compared to last years and one of the main reasons for that is this years team misses Rutherford. I am surprised at the degree he is missed because he didn't play that many minutes or score that many points but when he was on the floor the intensity of the whole team went up a notch.

The only counterpoint I’ll make is that the guy replacing  Rutherford also has a non stop motor. I think it’s more about us missing LJ on defense. But people don’t want to hear that.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

One reason for the regression is the lack of effort this years team seems to put out as compared to last years and one of the main reasons for that is this years team misses Rutherford. I am surprised at the degree he is missed because he didn't play that many minutes or score that many points but when he was on the floor the intensity of the whole team went up a notch.

The only counterpoint I’ll make is that the guy replacing  Rutherford also has a non stop motor. I think it’s more about us missing LJ on defense. But people don’t want to hear that.

 

[monte]

One reason for the regression is the lack of effort this years team seems to put out as compared to last years and one of the main reasons for that is this years team misses Rutherford. I am surprised at the degree he is missed because he didn't play that many minutes or score that many points but when he was on the floor the intensity of the whole team went up a notch.

The only counterpoint I’ll make is that the guy relaxing Rutherford also has a non stop motor. I think it’s more missing LJ on defense. But people don’t want to hear that.

On a team with only one bonafide Big East level starter, LJ would have added a second one had he stuck around. Don't know how anyone could dismiss his loss. It is huge on both ends of the court. 
 

 

[GardenCity62]

The fact is that both Rutherford and LJ are gone as well as forty minutes of mayhem is obviously not a coincidence.

 

[Mean Gene]

One reason for the regression is the lack of effort this years team seems to put out as compared to last years and one of the main reasons for that is this years team misses Rutherford. I am surprised at the degree he is missed because he didn't play that many minutes or score that many points but when he was on the floor the intensity of the whole team went up a notch.

The only counterpoint I’ll make is that the guy relaxing Rutherford also has a non stop motor. I think it’s more missing LJ on defense. But people don’t want to hear that.

On a team with only one bonafide Big East level starter, LJ would have added a second one had he stuck around. Don't know how anyone could dismiss his loss. It is huge on both ends of the court. 


Agree with both Monte and Mase on LJ and what he would have meant both offensively and defensively to this team. I think we win both the BYU game and the first Georgetown game with LJ and 8-3 would look much better than 6-5. Yes, LJ would have driven us crazy at times with his undisciplined play but his offensive output and his ability to be very effective in CMA's defensive system is sorely missed. 

 

[Knight]

LJ did not want to be at SJU.  He reluctantly stayed for one year under CMA.  Had he made his transfer intentions known earlier, CMA would have had more time to replace him before the well ran dry.  He hurt the program.

 

[Ray Morgan]

The fact is that both Rutherford and LJ are gone as well as forty minutes of mayhem is obviously not a coincidence.

The team is ranked 4th in steals per game. They are still turning teams over, but that is the extent of the defense. Once the pressure is broken, the defense falls apart, starting with the perimeter right down to the paint. Then  has trouble with missed shots anyway.  I know that Rutherford ended every game with bruises from diving for loose balls. This year, only a few guys have bruises. We are way too athletic to be losing 50-50 balls as much as we do.

 

[paultzman]

Defense safely seems worse than last year, so a team regression is fair argument. We got giddy over last couple of wins at end of 20 season including the 1/2 Creighton win nonsense. However, we only won 5 BE games and one on the road. We seem headed in same record neighborhood, so in that sense it may be more of the same v "regression" as a whole.

I did not expect much this year, but some things are annoying; digging another early BE hole and my oft noted abysmal record away from home even w absence of fans. If we finish w 5 or 6 wins, I think a positive would be winning two road games & God forbid upsetting a quality BE team. Those imo would at least be modest positives to hopefully build on. Looking for some movement up next season, but too early to speculate not knowing what roster will look like and what new players can offer out of the gate. 

Winning next 2 home games seems possible and certainly helpful, but can't assume anything with a team evidencing  little capability and/or interest in defending.

 

[ADORAZ]

Warning signs have been clear since very early in CMA's tenure. Zero recruits from Arkansas followed him here. He wasn't ever even "in" on any 4 star recruits during his time at St. John's, with the exception of a couple borderline 3/4 stars (such as the one we lost out on to Georgetown). That shouldn't happen with an established P6 coach who landed plenty of 4 stars throughout his career. Compare that to Lavin who immediately landed a top 10 class despite being out of coaching for a long time. Compare that to Mullin who immediately landed a top 25 class despite never coaching before.

Recruiting has regressed while the rest of the league has improved. Simple as that. Can't compete in the Big East with 3 stars and JUCOs. Yes, a couple have outperformed their HS/JUCO rating but most haven't. It's very rare for a coach to consistenly find 3 stars capable of competing at this level. CMA consistently landed top 25-40 classes at Arkansas but for whatever reason he hasn't done that here in 3 classes (2019, 2020, 2021).

Time to step it up or we won't get out of the basement. Georgetown and DePaul are getting 5 and 4 stars. UConn has a top 10 class and is now ranked. Things will likely get worse before they get better.

 

[GoldenLeaf]

This is a poor team and not fun to watch. Not much more to say.

 

[ghostzapper]

Nineteen days ago when this thread was started we were a 6 and 6 team coming off a very lackluster home game against Creighton. Perimeter and interior defense was mediocre at best and the team as a whole was not very cohesive.

Five games later the pendulum has swung the other direction. With four victories and a close two point loss against Marquette things are looking much better. It is not just the wins that are a positive sign but how the team is playing. The defensive intensity and disruptive defensive nature that SJU had brought to the table last season has returned. This had been mostly lacking through the first twelve games this year. The return of Josh Roberts to the rotation was definitely a piece of that, but it is beyond the contribution of just one player. It is team intensity, court recognition, decision making and effort that have characterized the improved play.

The barrage of made threes against us that characterized our early season games has disappeared. In our last five games no team has made more than seven three point shots against us. The roster from top to bottom has found ways to contribute. Posh Alexander has really come to the forefront and is emblamatic of the tough nosed gritty team we are becoming.

Kudos to Coach Anderson. He has been very level in his approach and never got too down when things were not going well. He has always trusted the process regardless of the results. He accurately assessed the lack of defensive presence and commitment to sharing the ball on offense when the results were not there. He was able to get the team to raise its level of play. This is probably why he has managed to be successful at different programs with different circumstances throughout his coaching career.

The story of the 2020/2021 St. John's men's basketball season is far from over. We currently are in a three way tie for seventh place. There are still ten more conference regular season games yet to be played. Seven of those ten games are against teams above us in the standings. Hopefully we can sustain and build on our recent improvement. At the very least there is some reason for optimisim with our recent improved play. Personally I am excited to see the rest of this play out.

 

[BrooklynRed]

As Dinah Washington sang--What A Difference A Day Makes.  St. John's Forever!

 

[beast of the east]

I think we should be reasonable in our expectation going forward.     Three of our 4 wins have come against teams who were expected to finish 7-10 in league play, and the 4th against a team figured to finish 5th.    Wehave three games remaning against Butler, Marquette, and DePaul.    Its' reasonable to expect 2-1 vs. those teams.   At that point it may depend on how well we play vs. Providence since we haven't played them yet.    Reasonably we would have to sweep them to have any chance of moving to the middle of the pack and take care of business in the winnable games.

Just enjoying the improved play, which we should have trusted in the first place would come along.

 

[camz]

After the 2nd Creighton game I don't think many saw this coming. It's a great surprise.

Keep it up.