Programs That Produce With Less
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Ray Morgan
Well-known member
[quote="Paultzman" post=409449]https://ncaahoopsdigest.com/2020/12/17/more-with-less-the-coaches-and-programs-that-produce-with-less/[/quote]
I have a lot of respect for all of the coaches listed, especially Willard. But let's not kid ourselves that these coaches somehow found overlooked 2* players. Six of the ten players listed in the article were 4* players according to Rivals and verbal commits. Including the "where did he come from" Zegarowski. He was a 4 star player on some services.
Very rarely does a Cinderella like Fl Gulf Coast go far with their team of 2 and 3 star recruits. Here is a link to the All Big East First and Second teams since 1979. When SJU has no players on the first or second team, they generally were mediocre. If they had first team players, that had good years and wen to the NCAA tournament. It's always about talent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_All-Big_East_Conference_men's_basketball_teams
I have a lot of respect for all of the coaches listed, especially Willard. But let's not kid ourselves that these coaches somehow found overlooked 2* players. Six of the ten players listed in the article were 4* players according to Rivals and verbal commits. Including the "where did he come from" Zegarowski. He was a 4 star player on some services.
Very rarely does a Cinderella like Fl Gulf Coast go far with their team of 2 and 3 star recruits. Here is a link to the All Big East First and Second teams since 1979. When SJU has no players on the first or second team, they generally were mediocre. If they had first team players, that had good years and wen to the NCAA tournament. It's always about talent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_All-Big_East_Conference_men's_basketball_teams
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If that is anywhere near true, it’s sad but also answers a lot of the questions that some posters keep asking about why we don’t get certain guys
[quote="Moose" post=409531][quote="djramps" post=409530]Also let’s not forget Willard’s very questionable recruiting tactics as well.[/quote]
Would it shock you that 90% of power conference teams recruit questionably? I'm very comfortable using that number.[/quote]
[quote="Moose" post=409531][quote="djramps" post=409530]Also let’s not forget Willard’s very questionable recruiting tactics as well.[/quote]
Would it shock you that 90% of power conference teams recruit questionably? I'm very comfortable using that number.[/quote]
Moose
Well-known member
All schools do. Its varying levels of course. It's just the nature of the beast/human nature. Will it change with NIL coming into the college game? Maybe but some wonder if NIL can become a dirty cesspool too.
[quote="redmanwest" post=409533]If that is anywhere near true, it’s sad but also answers a lot of the questions that some posters keep asking about why we don’t get certain guys
[quote="Moose" post=409531][quote="djramps" post=409530]Also let’s not forget Willard’s very questionable recruiting tactics as well.[/quote]
Would it shock you that 90% of power conference teams recruit questionably? I'm very comfortable using that number.[/quote][/quote]
[quote="redmanwest" post=409533]If that is anywhere near true, it’s sad but also answers a lot of the questions that some posters keep asking about why we don’t get certain guys
[quote="Moose" post=409531][quote="djramps" post=409530]Also let’s not forget Willard’s very questionable recruiting tactics as well.[/quote]
Would it shock you that 90% of power conference teams recruit questionably? I'm very comfortable using that number.[/quote][/quote]
[quote="djramps" post=409530]Also let’s not forget Willard’s very questionable recruiting tactics as well.[/quote]
I think it is time we all got over Willard giving jobs to two assistants that brought with them top 50 kids. That was 6-7 years ago or more and all Willard has done since Whitehead and Delgado have long left is continue to win and win big with lesser talent. Sorry but that man can flat out coach, develop and recruit. Powell was not a top recruit and neither was Mamu but they each developed into great players. Time we give the man the credit he deserves.
I think it is time we all got over Willard giving jobs to two assistants that brought with them top 50 kids. That was 6-7 years ago or more and all Willard has done since Whitehead and Delgado have long left is continue to win and win big with lesser talent. Sorry but that man can flat out coach, develop and recruit. Powell was not a top recruit and neither was Mamu but they each developed into great players. Time we give the man the credit he deserves.
[quote="redmannorth" post=409538][quote="djramps" post=409530]Also let’s not forget Willard’s very questionable recruiting tactics as well.[/quote]
I think it is time we all got over Willard giving jobs to two assistants that brought with them top 50 kids. That was 6-7 years ago or more and all Willard has done since Whitehead and Delgado have long left is continue to win and win big with lesser talent. Sorry but that man can flat out coach, develop and recruit. Powell was not a top recruit and neither was Mamu but they each developed into great players. Time we give the man the credit he deserves.[/quote]
Totally agree with you on this. If anything, Willard used that moment as a springboard for success, and he successfully maintained the winning.
Just one correction though. Powell was a top 100 4 star recruit.
I think it is time we all got over Willard giving jobs to two assistants that brought with them top 50 kids. That was 6-7 years ago or more and all Willard has done since Whitehead and Delgado have long left is continue to win and win big with lesser talent. Sorry but that man can flat out coach, develop and recruit. Powell was not a top recruit and neither was Mamu but they each developed into great players. Time we give the man the credit he deserves.[/quote]
Totally agree with you on this. If anything, Willard used that moment as a springboard for success, and he successfully maintained the winning.
Just one correction though. Powell was a top 100 4 star recruit.
[quote="redmannorth" post=409538][quote="djramps" post=409530]Also let’s not forget Willard’s very questionable recruiting tactics as well.[/quote]
I think it is time we all got over Willard giving jobs to two assistants that brought with them top 50 kids. That was 6-7 years ago or more and all Willard has done since Whitehead and Delgado have long left is continue to win and win big with lesser talent. Sorry but that man can flat out coach, develop and recruit. Powell was not a top recruit and neither was Mamu but they each developed into great players. Time we give the man the credit he deserves.[/quote]
+1,000. Amen to that, RMN.
I think it is time we all got over Willard giving jobs to two assistants that brought with them top 50 kids. That was 6-7 years ago or more and all Willard has done since Whitehead and Delgado have long left is continue to win and win big with lesser talent. Sorry but that man can flat out coach, develop and recruit. Powell was not a top recruit and neither was Mamu but they each developed into great players. Time we give the man the credit he deserves.[/quote]
+1,000. Amen to that, RMN.
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=409542]It's Whitehead, it's Tiny, it's Holloway.......uh.......maybe it's Willard. For how long does the guy have to kick out a$$ before we can acknowledge he's a good coach?[/quote]
Yet has still won only one NCAA tournament game lol. But I agree he's a good coach.
Yet has still won only one NCAA tournament game lol. But I agree he's a good coach.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
[quote="Moose" post=409531][quote="djramps" post=409530]Also let’s not forget Willard’s very questionable recruiting tactics as well.[/quote]
Would it shock you that 90% of power conference teams recruit questionably? I'm very comfortable using that number.[/quote]
I think you are being too kind because questionable is not a strong enough adjective. Many programs unquestionably cheat. Where big money is on the line ,there will be cheating.
Would it shock you that 90% of power conference teams recruit questionably? I'm very comfortable using that number.[/quote]
I think you are being too kind because questionable is not a strong enough adjective. Many programs unquestionably cheat. Where big money is on the line ,there will be cheating.
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=409542]It's Whitehead, it's Tiny, it's Holloway.......uh.......maybe it's Willard. For how long does the guy have to kick out a$$ before we can acknowledge he's a good coach?[/quote]
In college basketball, the buck starts and stops with the head coach. They are responsible for putting together the right staff and bringing in the right kids. Willard deserves a ton of credit for what he's done at the Hall.
In college basketball, the buck starts and stops with the head coach. They are responsible for putting together the right staff and bringing in the right kids. Willard deserves a ton of credit for what he's done at the Hall.
TheArtest15
Member
If we didnt always suck and were making the tournament every year would anyone complain about us recruiting questionably? I doubt it
Willard was 82-80 in his first 5 seasons at SHU and never finished above 7th in the conference. He made the NIT once in that time. But SHU had the good, old fashioned common sense and discipline to give him TIME to develop a PROGRAM. They understood the importance and need for continuity and stability in that development, an understanding that is sorely lacking by many of the “fans” on this board.
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TheArtest15
Member
[quote="Logen" post=409561]Willard was 82-80 in his first 5 seasons at SHU and never finished above 7th in the conference. He made the NIT once in that time. But SHU had the good, old fashioned common sense and discipline to give him TIME to develop a PROGRAM. They understood the importance and need for continuity and stability in that development, an understanding that is sorely lacking by many of the “fans” on this board.[/quote]
I don't think CMA should be fired at all. I think he should be given 4-5 years to see if he can turn this program around and build us into a sustained winner. But why do people keep comparing coaches like Jay Wright and Kevin Willard to CMA? They both were at mid majors before with no prior experience coaching a High major College basketball team like Anderson has. You are confident in Anderson because of his track record right? Questioning other peoples fandom who aren't happy so far with a coach who has a great track record like everyone always brings up, is mind boggling to me.
It took Kelvin Sampson 1 year to turn Houston around. Im not saying that Anderson should be able to do that but I feel a lot of us are not liking what we are seeing so far in year two because we expect a lot from him because of his successful past
I don't think CMA should be fired at all. I think he should be given 4-5 years to see if he can turn this program around and build us into a sustained winner. But why do people keep comparing coaches like Jay Wright and Kevin Willard to CMA? They both were at mid majors before with no prior experience coaching a High major College basketball team like Anderson has. You are confident in Anderson because of his track record right? Questioning other peoples fandom who aren't happy so far with a coach who has a great track record like everyone always brings up, is mind boggling to me.
It took Kelvin Sampson 1 year to turn Houston around. Im not saying that Anderson should be able to do that but I feel a lot of us are not liking what we are seeing so far in year two because we expect a lot from him because of his successful past
[quote="TheArtest15" post=409563][quote="Logen" post=409561]Willard was 82-80 in his first 5 seasons at SHU and never finished above 7th in the conference. He made the NIT once in that time. But SHU had the good, old fashioned common sense and discipline to give him TIME to develop a PROGRAM. They understood the importance and need for continuity and stability in that development, an understanding that is sorely lacking by many of the “fans” on this board.[/quote]
I don't think CMA should be fired at all. I think he should be given 4-5 years to see if he can turn this program around and build us into a sustained winner. But why do people keep comparing coaches like Jay Wright and Kevin Willard to CMA? They both were at mid majors before with no prior experience coaching a High major College basketball team like Anderson has. You are confident in Anderson because of his track record right? Questioning other peoples fandom who aren't happy so far with a coach who has a great track record like everyone always brings up, is mind boggling to me.
It took Kelvin Sampson 1 year to turn Houston around. Im not saying that Anderson should be able to do that but I feel a lot of us are not liking what we are seeing so far in year two because we expect a lot from him because of his successful past[/quote]
You're comparing Kelvin Sampson, one of the biggest cheaters in the history of college basketball?
I don't think CMA should be fired at all. I think he should be given 4-5 years to see if he can turn this program around and build us into a sustained winner. But why do people keep comparing coaches like Jay Wright and Kevin Willard to CMA? They both were at mid majors before with no prior experience coaching a High major College basketball team like Anderson has. You are confident in Anderson because of his track record right? Questioning other peoples fandom who aren't happy so far with a coach who has a great track record like everyone always brings up, is mind boggling to me.
It took Kelvin Sampson 1 year to turn Houston around. Im not saying that Anderson should be able to do that but I feel a lot of us are not liking what we are seeing so far in year two because we expect a lot from him because of his successful past[/quote]
You're comparing Kelvin Sampson, one of the biggest cheaters in the history of college basketball?
[quote="Room112" post=409568][quote="TheArtest15" post=409563][quote="Logen" post=409561]Willard was 82-80 in his first 5 seasons at SHU and never finished above 7th in the conference. He made the NIT once in that time. But SHU had the good, old fashioned common sense and discipline to give him TIME to develop a PROGRAM. They understood the importance and need for continuity and stability in that development, an understanding that is sorely lacking by many of the “fans” on this board.[/quote]
I don't think CMA should be fired at all. I think he should be given 4-5 years to see if he can turn this program around and build us into a sustained winner. But why do people keep comparing coaches like Jay Wright and Kevin Willard to CMA? They both were at mid majors before with no prior experience coaching a High major College basketball team like Anderson has. You are confident in Anderson because of his track record right? Questioning other peoples fandom who aren't happy so far with a coach who has a great track record like everyone always brings up, is mind boggling to me.
It took Kelvin Sampson 1 year to turn Houston around. Im not saying that Anderson should be able to do that but I feel a lot of us are not liking what we are seeing so far in year two because we expect a lot from him because of his successful past[/quote]
You're comparing Kelvin Sampson, one of the biggest cheaters in the history of college basketball?[/quote]
And it took him 4 years to make the NCAA
I don't think CMA should be fired at all. I think he should be given 4-5 years to see if he can turn this program around and build us into a sustained winner. But why do people keep comparing coaches like Jay Wright and Kevin Willard to CMA? They both were at mid majors before with no prior experience coaching a High major College basketball team like Anderson has. You are confident in Anderson because of his track record right? Questioning other peoples fandom who aren't happy so far with a coach who has a great track record like everyone always brings up, is mind boggling to me.
It took Kelvin Sampson 1 year to turn Houston around. Im not saying that Anderson should be able to do that but I feel a lot of us are not liking what we are seeing so far in year two because we expect a lot from him because of his successful past[/quote]
You're comparing Kelvin Sampson, one of the biggest cheaters in the history of college basketball?[/quote]
And it took him 4 years to make the NCAA