(POST GAME) Xavier, Wed., Mar. 2, 6:30p, FS-1

[MakingPlays]

Imagine where this season could have been if Coburn had been used correctly and not had his minutes and confidence cut in December because he forgot to switch on a pick or whatever. 

I like Coburn a lot, and as someone who said at the beginning of the season I thought he'd start and be the 3rd leading scorer, he got the minutes he deserved.  Coburn had several games this year where he played double figure in minutes and didn't score a single point.  When he's shooting well, he looks like a high caliber BE player and one of the better shooters in the league, but when his shot is off he makes a lot of mistakes, he kinda plays to how well he shoots.  Hopefully he takes that confidence into the BE tournament, would be good timing.




 

Kid has 8 games where he lodged single-digit minutes including 3 in a row in December when he was clearly in the doghouse for whatever reason.
Shooters need confidence.
Shooters need to play.
And when all you're getting is garbage time over guys who are career bricklayers, your confidence is shot. 
Everyone saw that with Aaron Wheeler. 
And despite everything, Coburn still shot almost 40% from 3. 
Kid has the goods. Anyone can see it. Well, anyone except the one who really matters.

There's a lot of reason why season didn't go expect but trying to rewrite to make Coburn appear as undeniable talent that CMA just glued to the bench for no reason is simply a false narrative. He's been given a very fair shake the same as everyone else. 

You say shooters need to play, players need to play when given opportunities.  You can't have multiple games of getting double figures in minutes and contribute 0 points and do nothing else of significance, that's not how it works in big boy basketball. For example Coburn had a great game @Xavier, the next game he was given minutes, and he got thrown out of the game because he was frustrated because his shot wasn't falling and he ended up only have 2 points, 2 turnovers, in 8 minutes.  That's not showing the coach you wanna consistently be on the floor.  Games like tonight show him you want to be on the floor, you noticed he played well offensively and defensively, and coach kept him on the floor, whoever is playing better plays more, it's that simple.

 

[dalydoseofhoops]

http://dalydoseofhoops.blogspot.com/2022/03/johnnies-send-seniors-out-on-high-note.html

 

[RJGBOOTSY]

Imagine where this season could have been if Coburn had been used correctly and not had his minutes and confidence cut in December because he forgot to switch on a pick or whatever. 

I like Coburn a lot, and as someone who said at the beginning of the season I thought he'd start and be the 3rd leading scorer, he got the minutes he deserved.  Coburn had several games this year where he played double figure in minutes and didn't score a single point.  When he's shooting well, he looks like a high caliber BE player and one of the better shooters in the league, but when his shot is off he makes a lot of mistakes, he kinda plays to how well he shoots.  Hopefully he takes that confidence into the BE tournament, would be good timing.




 

Yeah, but it looks bad when he's letting Julian go wild, games where he was like 4-20 from the field (tonight's not the night to get on Julian, he played well in the second half), and Coburn being buried, might have given us a shot (I'm not saying bench Julian for Coburn, but having him out there could have helped).  Also, since we miss so many layups, we should have tried more 3's (a miss from 3 is worth the same as a miss from in close, and a make is one more point), and he's still our best from out there, along with Wheeler.

The game where he was done wrong was Seton Hall at home.  He came in with 3 minutes to go in the first half, hit a 3, and sat just before the end of the half, never to return.  This was in a game where both teams were struggling to shoot.  He could have been the difference.

I've said it all year.  Mathis and Wusu should almost never be on the court together.  You're just giving up too much offensively.  You can play one of them, and pair them with either Coburn or Smith.  Maybe we're a bit worse defensively, but it would be more than negated by the improved offensive output (most night).

That's not Anderson's mentality, though.

It's funny, because when someone is playing bad, people say I don't see why Anderson likes or plays this kid, when they play good, they say they don't see why Anderson didn't play the kid more.  I can pull up hundreds of posts where people complained about Wheeler and asked why coach played him, and I can pull up a hundred more posts of people saying why wasn't Wheeler playing more.  

The answer that nobody wants to hear to all these questions is different people, especially guys new to the system, take different times to figure things out.  Coburn was given many opportunities at the beginning of the season, he was bad defensively and  inconsistent offensively, not too mention he missed time due to Covid and was not himself for a while when he returned from that.  As of lately, he's been much better defensively and confidence in his shot has been good.  Coach Anderson isn't sitting around thinking, I like Wusu's muscles, so I'm going to play him instead of Coburn.  He's putting the players on the floor that's the most consistent and give them the best chance of winning.  You go back to Wheeler again, once he showed consistency, he got consistent minutes, same thing with Soriano.  You not going to get minutes from coach Anderson making a few threes every 3 or 4 games, put together some good games in a row then minutes will go up.  My guess is, he'll get another shot @Marq to show he can be consistent.

Yes agree with levels of consistency. Why Mathis?

 

[we are sju]

I know he didn’t shoot well this year but when you come into games knowing if you don’t hit one of first couple shots you are going to be taken out it is really hard to have confidence.Hopefully Coburn gets extended run in BET. Need guys to shoot threes

 

[beast of the east]

Monte, I just got home and looked at the box score. Do you still hate Soriano? /media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png/media/kunena/emoticons/silly.png


I might be missing someone but Soriano is probably the best offensive post poster we’ve had since Lamont Hamilton.  Looking forward to watching him next year. 

 

Zendon has been working very closely with Joel all season.   Joel has lost 35 pounds through a lot of hard work, which has improved his mobility a lot.   Zendon has worked with him in the post so that Soriano now gets more of the shots you want to take, and not stepping back closer to the foul line for a longer low percentage jump hook that opponents would want him to take.  He is also facing the basket a lot more instead of continually playing with his back to the basket in the post.   And of course, he has excellent court vision, and as a big man, has good instincts that when he draws attention, teammates can cut for easy layups (an oxymoron on this year's team at time) or find guys wide open from the perimeter.

Still there is a ton of room for improvement.  He is often close enough to muscle in for a slam and instead opts for a 3 or 4 foot shot that doesn't always drop.   With a guy of his size, it's often the work he does to get the highest percentage shot, and not the shot itself.   

He has also worked to reduce dumb fouls, especially away from the ball, and to go straight up on defense with his arms instead of reaching for the ball (which usually results in fouls called).  He's blocked a lot more shots due to better positioning and his improved mobility.

The best thing is there is a ton of room for improvement. 

 

[MainMan]

 This Xavier team is Georgetown level bad.

 

Uh, what now?

 

[beast of the east]

Imagine where this season could have been if Coburn had been used correctly and not had his minutes and confidence cut in December because he forgot to switch on a pick or whatever. 

I like Coburn a lot, and as someone who said at the beginning of the season I thought he'd start and be the 3rd leading scorer, he got the minutes he deserved.  Coburn had several games this year where he played double figure in minutes and didn't score a single point.  When he's shooting well, he looks like a high caliber BE player and one of the better shooters in the league, but when his shot is off he makes a lot of mistakes, he kinda plays to how well he shoots.  Hopefully he takes that confidence into the BE tournament, would be good timing.





 

Kid has 8 games where he lodged single-digit minutes including 3 in a row in December when he was clearly in the doghouse for whatever reason.
Shooters need confidence.
Shooters need to play.
And when all you're getting is garbage time over guys who are career bricklayers, your confidence is shot. 
Everyone saw that with Aaron Wheeler. 
And despite everything, Coburn still shot almost 40% from 3. 
Kid has the goods. Anyone can see it. Well, anyone except the one who really matters.

There's a lot of reason why season didn't go expect but trying to rewrite to make Coburn appear as undeniable talent that CMA just glued to the bench for no reason is simply a false narrative. He's been given a very fair shake the same as everyone else. 

You say shooters need to play, players need to play when given opportunities.  You can't have multiple games of getting double figures in minutes and contribute 0 points and do nothing else of significance, that's not how it works in big boy basketball. For example Coburn had a great game @Xavier, the next game he was given minutes, and he got thrown out of the game because he was frustrated because his shot wasn't falling and he ended up only have 2 points, 2 turnovers, in 8 minutes.  That's not showing the coach you wanna consistently be on the floor.  Games like tonight show him you want to be on the floor, you noticed he played well offensively and defensively, and coach kept him on the floor, whoever is playing better plays more, it's that simple.

For his part, when Coburn was ejected (deservedly) for a flagrant foul where he kicked an opponent, he immediately apologized to Anderson and Cragg after the game.   Very classy thing from a very nice, smart, and well spoken kid to do, after committing an out of character foul.

 

[kranmars]

Coming into this season, SJU needed to accomplish two things:
1. Continue Anderson’s record of never having a losing season. Check.
2. Make the NCAA tournament.
In that case, go out and win the BE tourney. I bought a brand new red crayola to check off that box.
I like keeping goals simple and straightforward. 

We are…

 

[MakingPlays]

Imagine where this season could have been if Coburn had been used correctly and not had his minutes and confidence cut in December because he forgot to switch on a pick or whatever. 

I like Coburn a lot, and as someone who said at the beginning of the season I thought he'd start and be the 3rd leading scorer, he got the minutes he deserved.  Coburn had several games this year where he played double figure in minutes and didn't score a single point.  When he's shooting well, he looks like a high caliber BE player and one of the better shooters in the league, but when his shot is off he makes a lot of mistakes, he kinda plays to how well he shoots.  Hopefully he takes that confidence into the BE tournament, would be good timing.





 

Yeah, but it looks bad when he's letting Julian go wild, games where he was like 4-20 from the field (tonight's not the night to get on Julian, he played well in the second half), and Coburn being buried, might have given us a shot (I'm not saying bench Julian for Coburn, but having him out there could have helped).  Also, since we miss so many layups, we should have tried more 3's (a miss from 3 is worth the same as a miss from in close, and a make is one more point), and he's still our best from out there, along with Wheeler.

The game where he was done wrong was Seton Hall at home.  He came in with 3 minutes to go in the first half, hit a 3, and sat just before the end of the half, never to return.  This was in a game where both teams were struggling to shoot.  He could have been the difference.

I've said it all year.  Mathis and Wusu should almost never be on the court together.  You're just giving up too much offensively.  You can play one of them, and pair them with either Coburn or Smith.  Maybe we're a bit worse defensively, but it would be more than negated by the improved offensive output (most night).

That's not Anderson's mentality, though.

It's funny, because when someone is playing bad, people say I don't see why Anderson likes or plays this kid, when they play good, they say they don't see why Anderson didn't play the kid more.  I can pull up hundreds of posts where people complained about Wheeler and asked why coach played him, and I can pull up a hundred more posts of people saying why wasn't Wheeler playing more.  

The answer that nobody wants to hear to all these questions is different people, especially guys new to the system, take different times to figure things out.  Coburn was given many opportunities at the beginning of the season, he was bad defensively and  inconsistent offensively, not too mention he missed time due to Covid and was not himself for a while when he returned from that.  As of lately, he's been much better defensively and confidence in his shot has been good.  Coach Anderson isn't sitting around thinking, I like Wusu's muscles, so I'm going to play him instead of Coburn.  He's putting the players on the floor that's the most consistent and give them the best chance of winning.  You go back to Wheeler again, once he showed consistency, he got consistent minutes, same thing with Soriano.  You not going to get minutes from coach Anderson making a few threes every 3 or 4 games, put together some good games in a row then minutes will go up.  My guess is, he'll get another shot @Marq to show he can be consistent.

Yes agree with levels of consistency. Why Mathis?

Mathis was 3rd leading scorer on the team probably 1/3 of the season.  And you can't point to a single moment on film where Mathis wasn't playing hard.  He's been the guy guarding the other team's best player 90% of the time.  He's not the best defender on the team as far as getting steals like Posh and Julian, but he's the best on ball defender on the team as far as keeping his man in front of him and not making many mistakes defensively.  

Mathis gets a tough rap because he's not the best shooter in the world and his shot looks very ugly.  So when he shoots it, it draws attention.  But, he's a good basketball player and a great defender.  When he's playing his game of slashing, cutting, and scoring in transition his game looks good and you can see why he's in the court, when he starts trying to shoot it and force his offense it looks bad.

 

[lawmanfan]

Opens game thread.
Sees the predictable "Coburn is a god, how come he didn't get huge minutes all year" SJU fan overreaction to a (great) kid who had the game of his life on Senior Night.
Closes game thread.

 

[MakingPlays]

Imagine where this season could have been if Coburn had been used correctly and not had his minutes and confidence cut in December because he forgot to switch on a pick or whatever. 

I like Coburn a lot, and as someone who said at the beginning of the season I thought he'd start and be the 3rd leading scorer, he got the minutes he deserved.  Coburn had several games this year where he played double figure in minutes and didn't score a single point.  When he's shooting well, he looks like a high caliber BE player and one of the better shooters in the league, but when his shot is off he makes a lot of mistakes, he kinda plays to how well he shoots.  Hopefully he takes that confidence into the BE tournament, would be good timing.






 

Kid has 8 games where he lodged single-digit minutes including 3 in a row in December when he was clearly in the doghouse for whatever reason.
Shooters need confidence.
Shooters need to play.
And when all you're getting is garbage time over guys who are career bricklayers, your confidence is shot. 
Everyone saw that with Aaron Wheeler. 
And despite everything, Coburn still shot almost 40% from 3. 
Kid has the goods. Anyone can see it. Well, anyone except the one who really matters.

There's a lot of reason why season didn't go expect but trying to rewrite to make Coburn appear as undeniable talent that CMA just glued to the bench for no reason is simply a false narrative. He's been given a very fair shake the same as everyone else. 

You say shooters need to play, players need to play when given opportunities.  You can't have multiple games of getting double figures in minutes and contribute 0 points and do nothing else of significance, that's not how it works in big boy basketball. For example Coburn had a great game @Xavier, the next game he was given minutes, and he got thrown out of the game because he was frustrated because his shot wasn't falling and he ended up only have 2 points, 2 turnovers, in 8 minutes.  That's not showing the coach you wanna consistently be on the floor.  Games like tonight show him you want to be on the floor, you noticed he played well offensively and defensively, and coach kept him on the floor, whoever is playing better plays more, it's that simple.

For his part, when Coburn was ejected (deservedly) for a flagrant foul where he kicked an opponent, he immediately apologized to Anderson and Cragg after the game.   Very classy thing from a very nice, smart, and well spoken kid to do, after committing an out of character foul.

I never once said he wasn't a classy kid off the court.  We're talking strictly on the court performance.  There's a few in this thread that seem to be shocked and confused on why he hasn't played more this season and seem to think CMA has some sort of secret vendetta on why he hadn't played him more.  I was responding to that.

 

[Mullins Revenge]

Anyone know why Pinzon played 1 minute last night and 3 minutes the previous game?  This kid needs to be playing.

 

[Knight]

Anyone know why Pinzon played 1 minute last night and 3 minutes the previous game?  This kid needs to be playing.

Maybe after his Covid issues his playing time should be restricted/controlled until next season.

 

[Mullins Revenge]

Anyone know why Pinzon played 1 minute last night and 3 minutes the previous game?  This kid needs to be playing.

Maybe after his Covid issues his playing time should be restricted/controlled until next season.

You are probably right but in that case why not just medical redshirt him?

 

[RJGBOOTSY]

Imagine where this season could have been if Coburn had been used correctly and not had his minutes and confidence cut in December because he forgot to switch on a pick or whatever. 

I like Coburn a lot, and as someone who said at the beginning of the season I thought he'd start and be the 3rd leading scorer, he got the minutes he deserved.  Coburn had several games this year where he played double figure in minutes and didn't score a single point.  When he's shooting well, he looks like a high caliber BE player and one of the better shooters in the league, but when his shot is off he makes a lot of mistakes, he kinda plays to how well he shoots.  Hopefully he takes that confidence into the BE tournament, would be good timing.






 

Yeah, but it looks bad when he's letting Julian go wild, games where he was like 4-20 from the field (tonight's not the night to get on Julian, he played well in the second half), and Coburn being buried, might have given us a shot (I'm not saying bench Julian for Coburn, but having him out there could have helped).  Also, since we miss so many layups, we should have tried more 3's (a miss from 3 is worth the same as a miss from in close, and a make is one more point), and he's still our best from out there, along with Wheeler.

The game where he was done wrong was Seton Hall at home.  He came in with 3 minutes to go in the first half, hit a 3, and sat just before the end of the half, never to return.  This was in a game where both teams were struggling to shoot.  He could have been the difference.

I've said it all year.  Mathis and Wusu should almost never be on the court together.  You're just giving up too much offensively.  You can play one of them, and pair them with either Coburn or Smith.  Maybe we're a bit worse defensively, but it would be more than negated by the improved offensive output (most night).

That's not Anderson's mentality, though.

It's funny, because when someone is playing bad, people say I don't see why Anderson likes or plays this kid, when they play good, they say they don't see why Anderson didn't play the kid more.  I can pull up hundreds of posts where people complained about Wheeler and asked why coach played him, and I can pull up a hundred more posts of people saying why wasn't Wheeler playing more.  

The answer that nobody wants to hear to all these questions is different people, especially guys new to the system, take different times to figure things out.  Coburn was given many opportunities at the beginning of the season, he was bad defensively and  inconsistent offensively, not too mention he missed time due to Covid and was not himself for a while when he returned from that.  As of lately, he's been much better defensively and confidence in his shot has been good.  Coach Anderson isn't sitting around thinking, I like Wusu's muscles, so I'm going to play him instead of Coburn.  He's putting the players on the floor that's the most consistent and give them the best chance of winning.  You go back to Wheeler again, once he showed consistency, he got consistent minutes, same thing with Soriano.  You not going to get minutes from coach Anderson making a few threes every 3 or 4 games, put together some good games in a row then minutes will go up.  My guess is, he'll get another shot @Marq to show he can be consistent.

Yes agree with levels of consistency. Why Mathis?

Mathis was 3rd leading scorer on the team probably 1/3 of the season.  And you can't point to a single moment on film where Mathis wasn't playing hard.  He's been the guy guarding the other team's best player 90% of the time.  He's not the best defender on the team as far as getting steals like Posh and Julian, but he's the best on ball defender on the team as far as keeping his man in front of him and not making many mistakes defensively.  

Mathis gets a tough rap because he's not the best shooter in the world and his shot looks very ugly.  So when he shoots it, it draws attention.  But, he's a good basketball player and a great defender.  When he's playing his game of slashing, cutting, and scoring in transition his game looks good and you can see why he's in the court, when he starts trying to shoot it and force his offense it looks bad.

Do not disagree he is a "good" on ball defender. I would not say great. Offensively in half court sets he is not consistent. Too many ill advised drives to the hoop, poor court spacing and a below average passer. Defense does not respect his jump shot and thus can not utilize ball screens and clogs the lanes up for driving and passing. IMO he deserved less minutes and Coburn/ Smith more. Reduce his minutes by 3-5 minutes per game over the course of the season and I think we would be much better off. As they did last night they played some zone which allowed Coburn to remain on the court. Additionally, we play a significant amount of press, run and jump and double team scramble defense which benefits Coburn do to his perceived lack of on the ball defense. 

 

[Knight]

Newsday 
[URL]https://www.newsday.com/sports/college/st-johns/st-john-s-basketball-tareq-coburn-1.50525702[/URL]

NY POST
[URL]https://nypost.com/2022/03/02/st-johns-uses-balanced-attack-in-home-finale-win-over-xavier/[/URL]

 

[IDRAFT]

Fun game and really nice to see Coburn have a great night on his Senior night. He had a lot of family and friends there last night.

As to somehow turning that into a negative - if you look hard enough you can always find something to complain about. So congratulations to those who found something in a 15 point win to bitch about. You must be a blast at parties!

 

[Mullins Revenge]

Fun game and really nice to see Coburn have a great night on his Senior night. He had a lot of family and friends there last night.

As to somehow turning that into a negative - if you look hard enough you can always find something to complain about. So congratulations to those who found something in a 15 point win to bitch about. You must be a blast at parties!

Or be the guy who calls out people who arent doing cartwheels over a meaningless win against a bad team in a very disappointing season.

 

[beast of the east]

Fun game and really nice to see Coburn have a great night on his Senior night. He had a lot of family and friends there last night.

As to somehow turning that into a negative - if you look hard enough you can always find something to complain about. So congratulations to those who found something in a 15 point win to bitch about. You must be a blast at parties!

Or be the guy who calls out people who arent doing cartwheels over a meaningless win against a bad team in a very disappointing season.

If the game was meaningless, then why did you watch and post so much about it?

 

[beast of the east]

Anyone know why Pinzon played 1 minute last night and 3 minutes the previous game?  This kid needs to be playing.

Maybe after his Covid issues his playing time should be restricted/controlled until next season.

You are probably right but in that case why not just medical redshirt him?

[URL]https://www.gwhatchet.com/2022/01/24/a-10-conference-petitions-ncaa-to-waive-redshirt-eligibility-rules-as-covid-cases-rise/[/URL]]A-10 petitions NCAA regarding redshirt eligibility in light of COVID rise – The GW Hatchet[/url]