(POST-GAME) @Xavier, Sat. Mar. 9, 5pm, FOX / 970AM

[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=328950]On the team’s defensive struggles…
“ We have somewhat of a small team and we have to be active, both offensively and defensively. … It’s something that we’ll keep working at. We’ve done good at it at times, just not so much the last ten days.”

You built the team Chris, you built a small roster, so that's on you

On if the program has made progress this season…
“We made progress. We did do that. We’re always going to have high expectations. Now it’s time to regroup and get ready for the BIG EAST Tournament.”
Yeah Chris, I guess starting last year 0-11 be being 8-10 this year is progress huh? Just to bad you choked the last 3 games of the season.[/quote]



Progress is when you improve. You obviously have no idea how to adjust and correct this teams poor play lately. Progress you say, interesting that the coaches picked us to finish 5th and you showed them by finishing 7th. Personally I wouldn't care if you resign after the season. Surely you have to realize you and the staff are without any offensive and defensive ability. The only way now to get invited to the NCAA Tournament is to beat Butler and Marquette. You say we have to be active offensively and defensively., yet you still have Clark switching on a guard leaving Heron to play Hankins or Jones The B.E.season just ended and you haven't adjusted one bit. So much for your wimpy non conference schedule. Everyone from coaches to announcers claim you have the best starting five and still you coached them to a 8 and 10 losing record.
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=328802]I’m sure I’ll be more level headed tomorrow when I cool down but this is easily the most disappointing St. John’s team that has ever been put out on the floor.

At least the Lavin team with DLo, Jakarr, Jordan, etc started 0-5 in big east and failed to their claw their way back. So we were let down early and knew what was coming.

This team makes themselves a solid NCAAT and is 20-8 going into March and then they suddenly stop playing hard. Remember how active our hands were in defense earlier in the season. So many deflections, so much attention to detail. Completely gone.

Ponds has checked out. He’s talented enough to get buckets when he doesn’t care but he can’t hide it on defense sometimes, he has checked out.

And heron has checked out even more[/quote]

I don't think it's as simple as the players checking out. I think what's wrong with this team is all about team construction. As most of us have known from the beginning, the team is completely unbalanced and simply cannot be successful with no effective post players. We got off to a decent start in conference play partly because early on we played teams without effective low post players or in the case of Georgetown it was before their freshmen were at full speed. Over the course of conference play EVERYONE has figured out how to dominate us offensively. And we played most of the bigger teams toward the end of the season creating what appears to be a late season swoon. But I believe that swoon is an unavoidable result of who we played when and how the rest of the coaching staffs in the league perfected the art of taking advantage of our poor team construction. If you move the ball by dribbling it, you will switch us into completely untenable match-ups that will give you either an easy bucket in the post or cause one of our guys to help and leave a wide open shooter. Or when there's a 6'11" guy like Hankins who we can't stop at all, our perimeter guys slough off a bit leaving wide open driving lanes causing us to foul and creating second chance opportunities for their bigs. As long as teams take their time and work our defense into a bad mismatch, they will get a high percentage scoring opportunity, not because their players are any quicker or more skilled, or trying harder than ours but because our roster construction and resulting defensive scheme makes it easier to do so. Unless our opponent totally spits the bit and we have an excellent game there is simply no way for us to prevail against a team with effective bigs. So I don't really think what we're seeing from the team is packing it in per se. What I see is that they have become completely frustrated by our inability to defend effectively with our misconstructed team, by the fact that it's just easier for the other team to score than it is for us, and as they fall behind and feel more and more pressure, they also fall into old habits of going one on one and forcing shots. And if we make a little run in a game we usually can't get over the hump because it's so much easier for other teams to score against us than for us to score against them. This isn't about the players; it's about the coaching staff putting them in a completely untenable position based on the construction of the roster and then feeding them Chris' great philosophy about going back to work, getting better each game, playing them one at a time - all good things except when you are building all of that on a foundation that is poorly constructed. And predictably because of that initial fatal design flaw everything built on top of it is collapsing.
I also don't agree with comments about the players not being as good as we thought. Each of the key players on the team has one or more very effective skill sets but the poor team construction often puts them in positions that highlight their weaknesses and fail to play to their strengths. With a more complete team I believe our 5 starting players would all be much more effective. It's really a shame that the poor job done by staff has failed to put them in positions where they can succeed individually and as a team.
I was excited when Chris was hired but now I am about done. Please give us a head coach who can coach basketball and a staff that has two members actively engaged in recruiting (great if one of them is Matt). Not sure how many more failed 4-6 year start-over cycles I can handle.
 
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[quote="redken" post=328964][quote="Jack Williams" post=328802]I’m sure I’ll be more level headed tomorrow when I cool down but this is easily the most disappointing St. John’s team that has ever been put out on the floor.

At least the Lavin team with DLo, Jakarr, Jordan, etc started 0-5 in big east and failed to their claw their way back. So we were let down early and knew what was coming.

This team makes themselves a solid NCAAT and is 20-8 going into March and then they suddenly stop playing hard. Remember how active our hands were in defense earlier in the season. So many deflections, so much attention to detail. Completely gone.

Ponds has checked out. He’s talented enough to get buckets when he doesn’t care but he can’t hide it on defense sometimes, he has checked out.

And heron has checked out even more[/quote]
Jack, I've seen --and endured -- a lot more seasons of St. John's basketball than you, but I agree with you 100% about this being the most disappointing team I've ever seen. Just infuriating. As for Heron, I'm convinced he's gone ... and if he goes, you can bet Nate Tabor's commitment will be gone as well, given his ties to the Heron family. So what's next: a new coach, an overhauled roster, and, of course, that old standby, another ineffectual four-year rebuilding process?[/quote]



Even if Heron wants to play another season and he should. It won't be with Mullin coaching him, surely his dad knows Mullin can't coach.
 
[quote="salty dog" post=328872][quote="MJDinkins" post=328838][quote="bob" post=328829]Have been hoping for Mullin to develop into a coach but to see the results with this team it is time once again for another coach. Right now St Johns is the worst team in the big east when they had the talent to win the big east. Hard to believe[/quote]

The worst coached team in the conference. It's really not all that close, if you ask me.[/quote]


Mullin supporters won’t be happy with that statement[/quote]


Don't you mean supporter?
 
[quote="REB" post=328981][quote="Jack Williams" post=328802]I’m sure I’ll be more level headed tomorrow when I cool down but this is easily the most disappointing St. John’s team that has ever been put out on the floor.

At least the Lavin team with DLo, Jakarr, Jordan, etc started 0-5 in big east and failed to their claw their way back. So we were let down early and knew what was coming.

This team makes themselves a solid NCAAT and is 20-8 going into March and then they suddenly stop playing hard. Remember how active our hands were in defense earlier in the season. So many deflections, so much attention to detail. Completely gone.

Ponds has checked out. He’s talented enough to get buckets when he doesn’t care but he can’t hide it on defense sometimes, he has checked out.

And heron has checked out even more[/quote]

I don't think it's as simple as the players checking out. I think what's wrong with this team is all about team construction. As most of us have known from the beginning, the team is completely unbalanced and simply cannot be successful with no effective post players. We got off to a decent start in conference play partly because early on we played teams without effective low post players or in the case of Georgetown it was before their freshmen were at full speed. Over the course of conference play EVERYONE has figured out how to dominate us offensively. And we played most of the bigger teams toward the end of the season creating what appears to be a late season swoon. But I believe that swoon is an unavoidable result of who we played when and how the rest of the coaching staffs in the league perfected the art of taking advantage of our poor team construction. If you move the ball by dribbling it, you will switch us into completely untenable match-ups that will give you either an easy bucket in the post or cause one of our guys to help and leave a wide open shooter. Or when there's a 6'11" guy like Hankins who we can't stop at all, our perimeter guys slough off a bit leaving wide open driving lanes causing us to foul and creating second chance opportunities for their bigs. As long as teams take their time and work our defense into a bad mismatch, they will get a high percentage scoring opportunity, not because their players are any quicker or more skilled, or trying harder than ours but because our roster construction and resulting defensive scheme makes it easier to do so. Unless our opponent totally spits the bit and we have an excellent game there is simply no way for us to prevail against a team with effective bigs. So I don't really think what we're seeing from the team is packing it in per se. What I see is that they have become completely frustrated by our inability to defend effectively with our misconstructed team, by the fact that it's just easier for the other team to score than it is for us, and as they fall behind and feel more and more pressure, they also fall into old habits of going one on one and forcing shots. And if we make a little run in a game we usually can't get over the hump because it's so much easier for other teams to score against us than for us to score against them. This isn't about the players; it's about the coaching staff putting them in a completely untenable position based on the construction of the roster and then feeding them Chris' great philosophy about going back to work, getting better each game, playing them one at a time - all good things except when you are building all of that on a foundation that is poorly constructed. And predictably because of that initial fatal design flaw everything built on top of it is collapsing.
I also don't agree with comments about the players not being as good as we thought. Each of the key players on the team has one or more very effective skill sets but the poor team construction often puts them in positions that highlight their weaknesses and fail to play to their strengths. With a more complete team I believe our 5 starting players would all be much more effective. It's really a shame that the poor job done by staff has failed to put them in positions where they can succeed individually and as a team.
I was excited when Chris was hired but now I am about done. Please give us a head coach who can coach basketball and a staff that has two members actively engaged in recruiting (great if one of them is Matt). Not sure how many more failed 4-6 year start-over cycles I can handle.[/quote]

I don't see how you can change coaches after this year, and not have another long rebuild. At the very least, you'd have a really pitiful record next year, and the complaints would start flying, again.

That's why, if we do change coaches, I lean more and more to Cluess. He's no spring chicken, but that might actually help, because I doubt he's up for a long rebuild. Also, if we did stink, at least under Cluess, we would play a very exciting style, if noting else. That could attract recruits.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=328839][quote="thetux1" post=328833]My favorite play is the Simon whirling dervish shot where he just throws it up with no clue where the basket is. May as well wear a blindfold.[/quote]
and yet the staff continues to allow it. We put up far to many circus shots.[/quote]


Poor shot selection, especially Clark. On most of his shots he wasn't set. Just look at Xavier's wide open threes. And to think they didn't have Marshall. .
 
[quote="JackofVirginia" post=328987][quote="bamafan" post=328839][quote="thetux1" post=328833]My favorite play is the Simon whirling dervish shot where he just throws it up with no clue where the basket is. May as well wear a blindfold.[/quote]
and yet the staff continues to allow it. We put up far to many circus shots.[/quote]


Poor shot selection, especially Clark. On most of his shots he wasn't set. Just look at Xavier's wide open threes. And to think they didn't have Marshall. .[/quote]

Marshall is their leading scorer, but against us, is only their third most important player. Would have been much better for us if Jones or Haskins was the injured party.

There was a play late in this game (when the issue had pretty much been decided), when someone on our team (I think it was Heron, but not sure, as I was watching in a public place, with the sound off), was in perfect defensive rebounding position, but Jones still got the rebound from behind him, because he's 5 inches taller.
 
From what I saw recently, the team just looked tired of late. Tired of battling, almost every game, bigger, stronger and deeper teams, tired of competing with high expectations, and tired of chasing wide open 3 point shooters. Based on the dwindling post game posts. I think the fans are tired also. Weary of another season of disappointment. I think there is not much left to say.
 
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[quote="SJU61982" post=328986][quote="REB" post=328981][quote="Jack Williams" post=328802]I’m sure I’ll be more level headed tomorrow when I cool down but this is easily the most disappointing St. John’s team that has ever been put out on the floor.

At least the Lavin team with DLo, Jakarr, Jordan, etc started 0-5 in big east and failed to their claw their way back. So we were let down early and knew what was coming.

This team makes themselves a solid NCAAT and is 20-8 going into March and then they suddenly stop playing hard. Remember how active our hands were in defense earlier in the season. So many deflections, so much attention to detail. Completely gone.

Ponds has checked out. He’s talented enough to get buckets when he doesn’t care but he can’t hide it on defense sometimes, he has checked out.

And heron has checked out even more[/quote]

I don't think it's as simple as the players checking out. I think what's wrong with this team is all about team construction. As most of us have known from the beginning, the team is completely unbalanced and simply cannot be successful with no effective post players. We got off to a decent start in conference play partly because early on we played teams without effective low post players or in the case of Georgetown it was before their freshmen were at full speed. Over the course of conference play EVERYONE has figured out how to dominate us offensively. And we played most of the bigger teams toward the end of the season creating what appears to be a late season swoon. But I believe that swoon is an unavoidable result of who we played when and how the rest of the coaching staffs in the league perfected the art of taking advantage of our poor team construction. If you move the ball by dribbling it, you will switch us into completely untenable match-ups that will give you either an easy bucket in the post or cause one of our guys to help and leave a wide open shooter. Or when there's a 6'11" guy like Hankins who we can't stop at all, our perimeter guys slough off a bit leaving wide open driving lanes causing us to foul and creating second chance opportunities for their bigs. As long as teams take their time and work our defense into a bad mismatch, they will get a high percentage scoring opportunity, not because their players are any quicker or more skilled, or trying harder than ours but because our roster construction and resulting defensive scheme makes it easier to do so. Unless our opponent totally spits the bit and we have an excellent game there is simply no way for us to prevail against a team with effective bigs. So I don't really think what we're seeing from the team is packing it in per se. What I see is that they have become completely frustrated by our inability to defend effectively with our misconstructed team, by the fact that it's just easier for the other team to score than it is for us, and as they fall behind and feel more and more pressure, they also fall into old habits of going one on one and forcing shots. And if we make a little run in a game we usually can't get over the hump because it's so much easier for other teams to score against us than for us to score against them. This isn't about the players; it's about the coaching staff putting them in a completely untenable position based on the construction of the roster and then feeding them Chris' great philosophy about going back to work, getting better each game, playing them one at a time - all good things except when you are building all of that on a foundation that is poorly constructed. And predictably because of that initial fatal design flaw everything built on top of it is collapsing.
I also don't agree with comments about the players not being as good as we thought. Each of the key players on the team has one or more very effective skill sets but the poor team construction often puts them in positions that highlight their weaknesses and fail to play to their strengths. With a more complete team I believe our 5 starting players would all be much more effective. It's really a shame that the poor job done by staff has failed to put them in positions where they can succeed individually and as a team.
I was excited when Chris was hired but now I am about done. Please give us a head coach who can coach basketball and a staff that has two members actively engaged in recruiting (great if one of them is Matt). Not sure how many more failed 4-6 year start-over cycles I can handle.[/quote]

I don't see how you can change coaches after this year, and not have another long rebuild. At the very least, you'd have a really pitiful record next year, and the complaints would start flying, again.

That's why, if we do change coaches, I lean more and more to Cluess. He's no spring chicken, but that might actually help, because I doubt he's up for a long rebuild. Also, if we did stink, at least under Cluess, we would play a very exciting style, if noting else. That could attract recruits.[/quote]

I thought Mullin's style was supposed to attract recruits. Cluess doesn't impress me, as his team's doesn't play defense. So, you're fine with stinking as long as we're fun to watch, eh? We're basically getting that with Mullin. My, my, my has expectations sunk in Johnnies land.
 
I blame herons issues on heron. He’s averaging just about the same amount of point as he did at auburn on his best %’s. Maybe the most of us, myself included, were just a little bit wrong about his game. He is one of the most predictable offensive players I’ve seen at sju. And there is plenty you can blame CM for.
 
Woke up to another loss. This season closing stretch was brutal. Where is the fight in this team? They don’t deserve and NCAA bid. Give it to a team that fought to get in.
 
[quote="REB" post=328981]
Please give us a head coach who can coach basketball and a staff that has two members actively engaged in recruiting (great if one of them is Matt).[/quote]

Sorry, why Matt gets a pass?
He only recruits transfers. We are seeing now why they played less than 10 minutes in his previous teams.
He has never recruited HS players. Neither in Iowa State nor with us.
It looks like he has not established any relation with HS coaches. I know that Mullin had to help, but we see that other assistant coaches (Kimani Young, Tony Chiles, Jared Grasso) have connections. After 4 years we have none.
 
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Look we are all frustrated but the blame has to go on coach and staff they picked the talent,they teach the talent either they miss picking more talented players or our program just can not attract them but a more exp coach and staff could have given us a few more wins and not been in this spot.Teacher say student do yes they are good kids and represent the school well and their talent mo was overrated and they took us a far as that talent will go. Can we have a stretch now where we play 4-5 games great hitting high % of shots and win yes but very unlikely but we all have to root for the team we put on the floor,things have to get better. Many say next yr will be worst I think it will be better because changes need to be made not necessarily people being fired but a change in recruiting,game plans effort by staff going after players. But it all starts at the top good luck to the players going forward
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=328989]From what I saw recently, the team just looked tired of late. Tired of battling, almost every game, bigger, stronger and deeper teams, tired of competing with high expectations, and tired of chasing wide open 3 point shooters. Based on the dwindling post game posts. I think the fans are tired also. Weary of another season of disappointment. I think there is not much left to say.[/quote]
Ray...was just going to note the same thing re: post game posts...I think fans and, in particular, regular posters are beyond frustration.
 
https://nypost.com/2019/03/10/st-johns-doing-everything-it-can-to-wreck-a-sure-thing/

This is an interesting -- and telling--passage:

Mullin was critical of his players. He wondered how his team has been unable to take advantage of mismatches — guards being defended by forwards — yet get so exposed on the other end of the floor.

“We’ve had bigs guard our guards pretty well,” he said. “I think to me that [should be] somewhat impossible. We’ve got somewhat of a small team, and to me when I look at a small team, it’s the more active team both offensively and defensively. A lot of times that’s not the case [with us]. We’re chasing them. They should be chasing us.”

When asked why that is, Mullin replied: “That’s a good question.”

As others have noted, our players are rightfully getting fatigued. Yesterday, X had 2 players, 6'10 and 6'11 out there for 30 minutes (plus 6'9 Tyrique Jones) pounding our guys repeatedly in the post. We cannot win on a consistent basis without at least one quality big man, Mullin's theory only works when you've got all 5 starters playing on all cylinders, all game long, with no foul trouble. The stars have to be aligned perfectly on a consistent basis, and that's just asking too much. And that is on the coaching staff. I was excited by Mullin's hiring, but I am now fatigued too. Not sure how this ship gets turned around.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=328978][quote="SJU61982" post=328965]But, Tabor can never play with Heron anyway, since he's a 2020 recruit, and Heron would be a senior next year. So, why would his being here be so dependant on Heron?[/quote]

Pretty sure Tabor lives with the Herons. If Heron was having a horrible time here, Tabor would certainly hear about it.[/quote]
Exactly! And from what I'm hearing, Heron hasn't been thrilled with his time here ,,, nor has his father, especially with regard to Mullin.
 
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[quote="P Simmons" post=329035]https://nypost.com/2019/03/10/st-johns-doing-everything-it-can-to-wreck-a-sure-thing/

This is an interesting -- and telling--passage:

Mullin was critical of his players. He wondered how his team has been unable to take advantage of mismatches — guards being defended by forwards — yet get so exposed on the other end of the floor.

“We’ve had bigs guard our guards pretty well,” he said. “I think to me that [should be] somewhat impossible. We’ve got somewhat of a small team, and to me when I look at a small team, it’s the more active team both offensively and defensively. A lot of times that’s not the case [with us]. We’re chasing them. They should be chasing us.”

When asked why that is, Mullin replied: “That’s a good question.”

As others have noted, our players are rightfully getting fatigued. Yesterday, X had 2 players, 6'10 and 6'11 out there for 30 minutes (plus 6'9 Tyrique Jones) pounding our guys repeatedly in the post. We cannot win on a consistent basis without at least one quality big man, Mullin's theory only works when you've got all 5 starters playing on all cylinders, all game long, with no foul trouble. The stars have to be aligned perfectly on a consistent basis, and that's just asking too much. And that is on the coaching staff. I was excited by Mullin's hiring, but I am now fatigued too. Not sure how this ship gets turned around.[/quote]

Everybody except the St. John's staff knew they needed another big man on the roster. For some unexplainable reason, they didn't add a grad transfer in the summer.
 
[quote="DoodyNY33" post=329059]
Everybody except the St. John's staff knew they needed another big man on the roster. For some unexplainable reason, they didn't add a grad transfer in the summer.[/quote]

Matt knew. It's hard to land a decent one, though. In hindsight, even a non-decent one could have helped.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=329087][quote="DoodyNY33" post=329059]
Everybody except the St. John's staff knew they needed another big man on the roster. For some unexplainable reason, they didn't add a grad transfer in the summer.[/quote]

Matt knew. It's hard to land a decent one, though. In hindsight, even a non-decent one could have helped.[/quote] The other BE teams have multiple Bigs and we couldn’t land 1 good one. But, it’s hard to land one when the coach doesn’t show up for the visit.
 
Will hope for berth and a big run miracle but regardless, any logical person knows this is not going to work with staff as currently constructed. Warning signs have been there for years. Players don't appear to care IMO either. X was without a top player and still killed us.
 
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