(POST GAME) Xavier (MSG), Mon. Feb. 17, 6:30pm, FS-1 / 970AM

[quote="SJU61982" post=377833][quote="MJDinkins" post=377831][quote="newsman13" post=377826][quote="MJDinkins" post=377801][quote="newsman13" post=377797]Yes, we'll have more options...more bodies... Still, there isn't anyone coming in who can put the whole team on his shoulders in crunch time. That's what 4+ and 5 star players do. I'll hope for a miracle as will the rest of us.[/quote]

Speaking in absolutes again, eh? How do you know what Alexander and Cole are or aren't capable of doing? We're also not done recruiting, either.[/quote]

When it comes to basketball...here's an absolute: Can't shoot...can't win consistently..if at all. Experts aren't grading Alexander and/or Cole as high expectation players. They're nice players, and I'm glad they're coming, but my expectations are absolutely low.[/quote]

Tell San Diego State about "grading experts."
Most recruitniks do not grade JUCO players anyhow. I will confidently say Vince Cole would be considered a 4-star player if most outlets graded JUCO players.

Obviously, you don't know or aren't aware to what consummate or true lead guard can do in someone like Alexander. He was considered a top 70 player about a year or so ago. So, I'm gonna assume the ability is still there and can be honed and harnessed with our coaching staff.

If your expectations are low, that's fine and reasonable. But don't use your suppositions to build faulty logic.[/quote]

I agree, MJ. The right mix of 3 and 4 star guys, who stick around for awhile, can yield results. That's basically how Jay Wright built things at Villanova. I think he even mentioned once that he didn't want 5 starts, but wanted to get old, and stay old.

His first 5 star was Brunson, and he lucked into that. Brunson was headed to Temple, but his father's legal situation changed things. The next one he got was Quinerly, and he and Wright mixed like oil and water.

It's obvious that Anderson is looking for style fits first, then uses talent as the next barometer. If he's as married to his system as people claim he is, then that is the way to go, especially if he's a man of integrity (which he appears to be), and won't get sleazy on the recruiting trail.

I've been critical of Anderson for some things this year, but his recruiting strategy is not one of them.[/quote]

Actually, it's a misnomer Jay Wright built his team with 3 and 4-star players. He mainly built it with 4-star kids with a sprinkle of 5-star talent and a handful of 3-star kids.

Wright's first 5-star player was Jason Fraser in 2002 followed by Kyle Lowry two years later. Dominic Cheek was a fringe 5-star in 2009 for Wright and Villanova.
 
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Coach, why am I watching either Caraher or Rutherford trying to box out one of the best rebounders in the conference? Total killer late in the game, play good defense, then have to do it again, and again, because there is no size on the court.

Since he made a couple big shots in his first game, Dunn has been nothing but snake eyes late in games. Really disappointing.

Who drew up the play at the end to get the ball to Rutherford for a 40 footer?

"Next level leaper" Roberts lost the opening tap again, putting him at about 17 losses in a row. Not a big deal, just find it comical. That said, doesn't make sense what little time he gets the last 35 minutes of a game. Totally understand why he can't be out there on offense late but not playing for defense and rebounding, especially when you're getting killed on the glass, boggles the mind.
 
[quote="Ken Shark" post=377847]Coach, why am I watching either Caraher or Rutherford trying to box out one of the best rebounders in the conference? Total killer late in the game, play good defense, then have to do it again, and again, because there is no size on the court.

Since he made a couple big shots in his first game, Dunn has been nothing but snake eyes late in games. Really disappointing.

Who drew up the play at the end to get the ball to Rutherford for a 40 footer?

"Next level leaper" Roberts lost the opening tap again, putting him at about 17 losses in a row. Not a big deal, just find it comical. That said, doesn't make sense what little time he gets the last 35 minutes of a game. Totally understand why he can't be out there on offense late but not playing for defense and rebounding, especially when you're getting killed on the glass, boggles the mind.[/quote]

RE: that last Rutherford shot, what can you draw up there? You had 1.8 seconds to go fullcourt. It's hail mary time, so you just have to get the ball in, and hope. I thought it was a great pass to get it up that far, TBH.
 
Respect everyone's opinion on here, part of the fun with a site like this is playing armchair coaches and talent evaluators. It's tempting to conflate this loss with Hall & Gtwon losses where we also blew second half leads but I am with those who see it as very different. In first two we both took the air out of the ball prematurely and crumbled under defensive pressure with lots of 2nd half turnovers. We did neither here as only had 2 turnovers in each half and continued to attack offensively. We missed lots of good shots when hitting even one or two would have won the game. That has nothing to do with coaching imho. Only 2 bad shots that stand out other than one ill conceived three from Rutherford late in second half were last two shots Figgy took, especially the first one. Even the two front ends of one and ones Dunn & Earlington missed were not bad misses, sometimes foul shots don't go in. We were 14-18 or almost 80% before those two. I can't fault Dunn too much, he came up with steal at other end to keep us from going down more.
I didn't see a lot to criticize from a coaching perspective last night. Like several others I did question Caraher playing too long (he tries like hell but is overmatched) but recognize w/o him we only go 7 deep now and maybe coach felt he needed to buy some rest for others for final minutes. I also thought (and posted in game thread) that coach should have pulled Figgy (rather than Williams) after that horrible heave from three early in shot clock. Believe we would have gotten better final shot if we'd gone that route, but who knows, obviously coach felt he needed to stick with go to guy in that situation.
 
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I suspect the so called decline in play of LJ and Heron can be, at least, partially attributable to CMA's defensive attack strategy. These guys have worn down due to the minutes played and effort given. I'd sign them up again for another year if I could. More help coming with new and improved options will help improve our results.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=377788][quote="Proud Alumn" post=377781]“ Also, as an aside, the "no talent" thing would carry a lot more weight if:

1. Georgetown were not doing more with less talent then even we have ...”

Georgetown doesn’t have less talent than us. They have fewer players, but the players they do have are more talented.[/quote] For the moment, McClung and Yurtseven are not playing. So, other then Blair, who do they have of comperable talent?[/quote]

Allen is a better PG than Dunn. Do you want to say LJ is better than Pickett? He was a top-100 player coming out and All-BE Freshman. Yurtseven missed the last game but he played against us and is better than any of our bigs. Even take a guy like Mosely- how many guards on our team would you clearly take over him? So our best player is better than their 5th best. Overall their main players are better than ours.
 
[quote="Proud Alumn" post=377858][quote="SJU61982" post=377788][quote="Proud Alumn" post=377781]“ Also, as an aside, the "no talent" thing would carry a lot more weight if:

1. Georgetown were not doing more with less talent then even we have ...”

Georgetown doesn’t have less talent than us. They have fewer players, but the players they do have are more talented.[/quote] For the moment, McClung and Yurtseven are not playing. So, other then Blair, who do they have of comperable talent?[/quote]

Allen is a better PG than Dunn. Do you want to say LJ is better than Pickett? He was a top-100 player coming out and All-BE Freshman. Yurtseven missed the last game but he played against us and is better than any of our bigs. Even take a guy like Mosely- how many guards on our team would you clearly take over him? So our best player is better than their 5th best. Overall their main players are better than ours.[/quote]

I don't think Allen is better then Dunn. I think if Allen were here, and Dunn were at Gtown, a lot of people on here would be singing Dunn's praises, while nitpicking Allen's game.

Pickett's shooting numbers, in what many are considering a good year for him, are worse then LJ's, in what many are considering a bad year for him. So, LJ is the better player, or at least he should be.

Forgot about Mosley, good shooter, so I'll grant you him, but he's not world's better then anyone we have, IMO.

Georgetown has done more with less, IMO, or at least, way more then us, with only slightly more talent (which I'm not convinced of).
 
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[quote="Knight" post=377854]I suspect the so called decline in play of LJ and Heron can be, at least, partially attributable to CMA's defensive attack strategy. These guys have worn down due to the minutes played and effort given. I'd sign them up again for another year if I could. More help coming with new and improved options will help improve our results.[/quote] I too would take LJ for another year. But being worn down doesnt explain poor shot selection.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=377853]Respect everyone's opinion on here, part of the fun with a site like this is playing armchair coaches and talent evaluators. It's tempting to conflate this loss with Hall & Gtwon losses where we also blew second half leads but I am with those who see it as very different. In first two we both took the air out of the ball prematurely and crumbled under defensive pressure with lots of 2nd half turnovers. We did neither here as only had 2 turnovers in each half and continued to attack offensively. We missed lots of good shots when hitting even one or two would have won the game. That has nothing to do with coaching imho. Only 2 bad shots that stand out other than one ill conceived three from Rutherford late in second half were last two shots Figgy took, especially the first one. Even the two front ends of one and ones Dunn & Earlington missed were not bad misses, sometimes foul shots don't go in. We were 14-18 or almost 80% before those two. I can't fault Dunn too much, he came up with steal at other end to keep us from going down more.
I didn't see a lot to criticize from a coaching perspective last night. Like several others I did question Caraher playing too long (he tries like hell but is overmatched) but recognize w/o him we only go 7 deep now and maybe coach felt he needed to buy some rest for others for final minutes. I also thought (and posted in game thread) that coach should have pulled Figgy (rather than Williams) after that horrible heave from three early in shot clock. Believe we would have gotten better final shot if we'd gone that route, but who knows, obviously coach felt he needed to stick with go to guy in that situation.[/quote]

If we hadn't blown the games against Butler, Georgetown, and Seton Hall, then last night would have been more acceptable, IMO.

If I look at any of those games differently, I would say that at least Butler and Seton Hall are NCAA Tournament locks, and the Hall has come back on a lot of good teams this year. Butler, we did a great job coming back against, but almost did it too well, IMO, leaving too much time on the clock.

No excuse for the Georgetown game, or last night, IMO.

I understand this year was about laying a foundation, but part of that is also showing improvement in as many areas as you can, over the course of the year, and closing games out is something we have not improved in. If anything, we've actually gotten a little worse. Xavier didn't even press us last night, and they still came back quickly (not as a big a deficit, obviously).

I give Anderson credit for not losing this team during all the close losses, but at the same time, I'd like to start seeing better execution at the end of games, and that was something Arkansas fans were on him about, so I'm going to be critical if I don't see it improving. One is not mutually exclusive from the other, IMO.
 
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[quote="SJU61982" post=377860][quote="Proud Alumn" post=377858][quote="SJU61982" post=377788][quote="Proud Alumn" post=377781]“ Also, as an aside, the "no talent" thing would carry a lot more weight if:

1. Georgetown were not doing more with less talent then even we have ...”

Georgetown doesn’t have less talent than us. They have fewer players, but the players they do have are more talented.[/quote] For the moment, McClung and Yurtseven are not playing. So, other then Blair, who do they have of comperable talent?[/quote]

Allen is a better PG than Dunn. Do you want to say LJ is better than Pickett? He was a top-100 player coming out and All-BE Freshman. Yurtseven missed the last game but he played against us and is better than any of our bigs. Even take a guy like Mosely- how many guards on our team would you clearly take over him? So our best player is better than their 5th best. Overall their main players are better than ours.[/quote]

I don't think Allen is better then Dunn. I think if Allen were here, and Dunn were at Gtown, a lot of people on here would be singing Dunn's praises, while nitpicking Allen's game.

Pickett's shooting numbers, in what many are considering a good year for him, are worse then LJ's, in what many are considering a bad year for him. So, LJ is the better player, or at least he should be.

Forgot about Mosley, good shooter, so I'll grant you him, but he's not world's better then anyone we have, IMO.

Georgetown has done more with less, IMO, or at least, way more then us, with only slightly more talent (which I'm not convinced of).[/quote]

Picket and LJ's FG percentage numbers are about the same. Picket is a better rebounder. They aren't that far off and LJ is presumably our best player.
Allen's FG%, 3point-FG% and assist numbers are much better than Dunn's. Dunn is not a natural PG.
Georgetown's players are clearly more talented. You are grasping at straws on this to strum up some criticism of the coaches.
 
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[quote="Proud Alumn" post=377866][quote="SJU61982" post=377860][quote="Proud Alumn" post=377858][quote="SJU61982" post=377788][quote="Proud Alumn" post=377781]“ Also, as an aside, the "no talent" thing would carry a lot more weight if:

1. Georgetown were not doing more with less talent then even we have ...”

Georgetown doesn’t have less talent than us. They have fewer players, but the players they do have are more talented.[/quote] For the moment, McClung and Yurtseven are not playing. So, other then Blair, who do they have of comperable talent?[/quote]

Allen is a better PG than Dunn. Do you want to say LJ is better than Pickett? He was a top-100 player coming out and All-BE Freshman. Yurtseven missed the last game but he played against us and is better than any of our bigs. Even take a guy like Mosely- how many guards on our team would you clearly take over him? So our best player is better than their 5th best. Overall their main players are better than ours.[/quote]

I don't think Allen is better then Dunn. I think if Allen were here, and Dunn were at Gtown, a lot of people on here would be singing Dunn's praises, while nitpicking Allen's game.

Pickett's shooting numbers, in what many are considering a good year for him, are worse then LJ's, in what many are considering a bad year for him. So, LJ is the better player, or at least he should be.

Forgot about Mosley, good shooter, so I'll grant you him, but he's not world's better then anyone we have, IMO.

Georgetown has done more with less, IMO, or at least, way more then us, with only slightly more talent (which I'm not convinced of).[/quote]

Picket and LJ's FG percentage numbers are about the same. Picket is a better rebounder. They aren't that far off and LJ is presumably our best player.
Allen's FG%, 3point-FG% and assist numbers are much better than Dunn's. Dunn is not a natural PG.
Georgetown's players are clearly more talented. You are grasping at straws on this to strum up some criticism of the coaches.[/quote]

Not doing that at all. We just disagree on Georgetown's talent level, and I think, if most of Georgetown's players were here, we'd have a similar record to what we have now, and most on here would be critical of those players. I know we have no way of knowing that, but that's just my hunch.

Nothing wrong with disagreement, but you have to admit, whether or not they have more talent then us, they shouldn't be going down to Butler and controlling the game from start to finish, or beating Creighton at home (though the Bluejays really hadn't found themselves yet), or coming from 17 down to beat us, a team that prides itself on wearing down the other team.

I'm still waiting for a win like that from this group, and not stealing one of these in conference play, is the main concern.
 
Does anyone know what Carahers plus/minus was last night? I tried to find it but could not find it. I ask because at the game I felt like he was on the floor for just about all of our mini-run and then came out. Don't get me wrong I wasn't pining for him to get more minutes but I thought CMA utilized him well and got him out just about when he needed to do so. Things do move fast when you are at the game though so I wondered that the numbers show.
 
Picket and LJ's FG percentage numbers are about the same. Picket is a better rebounder. They aren't that far off and LJ is presumably our best player.
Allen's FG%, 3point-FG% and assist numbers are much better than Dunn's. Dunn is not a natural PG.
Georgetown's players are clearly more talented. You are grasping at straws on this to strum up some criticism of the coaches.[/quote]

Not doing that at all. We just disagree on Georgetown's talent level, and I think, if most of Georgetown's players were here, we'd have a similar record to what we have now, and most on here would be critical of those players. I know we have no way of knowing that, but that's just my hunch.

Nothing wrong with disagreement, but you have to admit, whether or not they have more talent then us, they shouldn't be going down to Butler and controlling the game from start to finish, or beating Creighton at home (though the Bluejays really hadn't found themselves yet), or coming from 17 down to beat us, a team that prides itself on wearing down the other team.

I'm still waiting for a win like that from this group, and not stealing one of these in conference play, is the main concern.[/quote]

Georgetown played terrible the 1st half against us. Their players are better and they straightened out and beat us like they should have. You can't really compare if the rosters were switched because Coach Anderson would have to adjust his style with such a short bench. But if GTown's roster were here, we probably would have a similar record to what GTown has now. If we had players with GTown's talent level, we probably would have pulled out a few of these close losses we had.
 
[quote="Proud Alumn" post=377869]Picket and LJ's FG percentage numbers are about the same. Picket is a better rebounder. They aren't that far off and LJ is presumably our best player.
Allen's FG%, 3point-FG% and assist numbers are much better than Dunn's. Dunn is not a natural PG.
Georgetown's players are clearly more talented. You are grasping at straws on this to strum up some criticism of the coaches.[/quote]

Not doing that at all. We just disagree on Georgetown's talent level, and I think, if most of Georgetown's players were here, we'd have a similar record to what we have now, and most on here would be critical of those players. I know we have no way of knowing that, but that's just my hunch.

Nothing wrong with disagreement, but you have to admit, whether or not they have more talent then us, they shouldn't be going down to Butler and controlling the game from start to finish, or beating Creighton at home (though the Bluejays really hadn't found themselves yet), or coming from 17 down to beat us, a team that prides itself on wearing down the other team.

I'm still waiting for a win like that from this group, and not stealing one of these in conference play, is the main concern.[/quote]

Georgetown played terrible the 1st half against us. Their players are better and they straightened out and beat us like they should have. You can't really compare if the rosters were switched because Coach Anderson would have to adjust his style with such a short bench. But if GTown's roster were here, we probably would have a similar record to what GTown has now. If we had players with GTown's talent level, we probably would have pulled out a few of these close losses we had.[/quote]

Georgetown should not have beaten us. We were a 1.5-point favorite, and that was before it was announced that McClung was out. If they had McClung, I'd say OK, maybe he just got hot.

We were up 17 in the second half, at home, to a team that's not even ranked, and was without it's best player. Can't blow that game, under any circumstances.
 
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Georgetown played terrible the 1st half against us. Their players are better and they straightened out and beat us like they should have. You can't really compare if the rosters were switched because Coach Anderson would have to adjust his style with such a short bench. But if GTown's roster were here, we probably would have a similar record to what GTown has now. If we had players with GTown's talent level, we probably would have pulled out a few of these close losses we had.[/quote]

Georgetown should not have beaten us. We were a 1.5-point favorite, and that was before it was announced that McClung was out. If they had McClung, I'd say OK, maybe he just got hot.

We were up 17 in the second half, at home, to a team that's not even ranked, and was without it's best player. Can't blow that game, under any circumstances.[/quote]

They just beat Butler. Of course they should have beaten us. We have the least talented team in the BE.
 
[quote="Proud Alumn" post=377879]Georgetown played terrible the 1st half against us. Their players are better and they straightened out and beat us like they should have. You can't really compare if the rosters were switched because Coach Anderson would have to adjust his style with such a short bench. But if GTown's roster were here, we probably would have a similar record to what GTown has now. If we had players with GTown's talent level, we probably would have pulled out a few of these close losses we had.[/quote]

Georgetown should not have beaten us. We were a 1.5-point favorite, and that was before it was announced that McClung was out. If they had McClung, I'd say OK, maybe he just got hot.

We were up 17 in the second half, at home, to a team that's not even ranked, and was without it's best player. Can't blow that game, under any circumstances.[/quote]

They just beat Butler. Of course they should have beaten us. We have the least talented team in the BE.[/quote]

We agree to disagree re: Georgetown. If they are more talented then us, it's not by much. Certainly not enough of a difference for them to be able to come back from 17 down, on our home court, when they only had 7 guys, and we play a style meant to exploit that.
 
[quote="newsman13" post=377797][quote="SJUFAN2" post=377791][quote="Moose" post=377776]Am I happy? Absolutely not. Are there things I've seen that infuriate me? Absolutely.

That all being said its kind of crazy we are even where we are at this point. As my friend Logen points out how stats are overrated and on the surface you look at LJ and Heron and don't see a whole lot of regression in the big stats. LJ is actually averaging more pts than last year albeit slightly 14.6 to 14.4. However his shooting % is absymal compared to last year dropping from 51% to 38%. From 3 he's the same.

Heron averaged 1 ppg less than year. But again his % dropped from 44% to 38% and from 3 a slight drop from 40% to 38%.

Point being prior to the year they were both picked 2nd team BE so among the top 10-12 players in the League. I think we all expected they would step up and provide more (fans and coaches). But meanwhile they have proven to be Robin's and not Batman's. The fact that 2 Top 10-12 players in the League have underperformed like they have combined with 2 scholarship players not playing (Steere and McGriff) and in reality CMA having just 1 true HS recruit in Julian is kind of crazy all being considered.

I still have concerns about next year. I still wonder about many of the parts on the team and if they make sense moving forward. And I'm not out of line for that thinking as they are all pretty much from a previous regime. Caraher plays because there isn't many other options. We have 12 of 13 ships used. As mentioned Steere and McGriff aren't playing. Sears is barely playing. And to be fair Roberts is barely playing after the first TV timeout.

A lot needs to happen this spring. 4 solid pieces coming in I think. We still need 2 more at minimum.[/quote]

Good post moose.

That really is the problem on this team. No "Batman", too many "Robin's". It's really not an issue when we are running and gunning on offense for 75% of the game. But down the stretch of close games, when it becomes a half court game, we don't have the pieces to compete. No legit inside scoring threat. Our lead guard isn't a threat to shoot from 3 so it's harder for him to breakdown a defense late in games when they pack in the D. Our top scoring option can't beat anyone off the dribble when it matters, and settles for 28 foot 3's and 18 foot,1 handed floaters.

Next year at this time you'll have many more options. You'll have a PG in Posh who will force teams to defend him on the perimeter. Cole will pull the defense out to defend him as well. That will change our half court equation dramatically.[/quote]

Yes, we'll have more options...more bodies... Still, there isn't anyone coming in who can put the whole team on his shoulders in crunch time. That's what 4+ and 5 star players do. I'll hope for a miracle as will the rest of us.[/quote]

Vince Cole could be that type of player. I emphasize “could be”.
 
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