(POST GAME) West Virginia, Sat. Dec. 7, 12 NOON, FS-1, 970 WNYW
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[quote="usguard" post=366637]Yes a good win not not hitting our last 23 shots is bad we were fortunate to get the win but we are not going to win a close game if we do not do better in the
Last 10 mins of a game. Lot of work to do[/quote]
in most cases, at the end of the game, they ran the offense well and then just missed some easy or open shots; and then there were the turnovers. I agree some work to do but overall a gutsy tough win, banging with a bigger team.
Last 10 mins of a game. Lot of work to do[/quote]
in most cases, at the end of the game, they ran the offense well and then just missed some easy or open shots; and then there were the turnovers. I agree some work to do but overall a gutsy tough win, banging with a bigger team.
[quote="RedStormNC" post=366720]Credit to Mrs.CMA for her fashion forward coordinated red & white outfit & matching shoes
https://twitter.com/Mike_AndersonJr/status/1203335095442116608?s=20[/quote]
She's always rockin' red and white at our games. Sits about 7 rows up behind the bench at CA and always is up and cheering. As somebody remarked yesterday, at least she didn't have to get all new outfits when coach got the job.
https://twitter.com/Mike_AndersonJr/status/1203335095442116608?s=20[/quote]
She's always rockin' red and white at our games. Sits about 7 rows up behind the bench at CA and always is up and cheering. As somebody remarked yesterday, at least she didn't have to get all new outfits when coach got the job.
[quote="L J S A" post=366724][quote="Section9" post=366713][quote="L J S A" post=366688][quote="mjmaherjr" post=366687]Not sure if you could see on tv but watching our guys attack fir rebounds brought a tear to my eye [/quote]
When the camera panned on you today I thought I was looking at the Native American from the 1970s Keep America Beautiful commercial. It was a moving moment.[/quote]
Except that guy's Italian.[/quote]
Yes, I know. But If I talked about some Italian guy crying over a trash heap, no one would know what commercial I was talking about.:lol:[/quote]
gotcha, but that stuff would never fly in today's pc climate.
When the camera panned on you today I thought I was looking at the Native American from the 1970s Keep America Beautiful commercial. It was a moving moment.[/quote]
Except that guy's Italian.[/quote]
Yes, I know. But If I talked about some Italian guy crying over a trash heap, no one would know what commercial I was talking about.:lol:[/quote]
gotcha, but that stuff would never fly in today's pc climate.
romiSJU
Member
[quote="Logen" post=366757]All pretty much been said on the thread but just watched the replay (couldn’t watch live, working) and a few observations:
- I don’t usually comment or like commenting on the referees but in one of the worst reffed games I’ve seen in a while (they never remotely established what was or wasn’t a foul), I was very impressed by the fact that all involved, players and coaches, were professional and controlled in their reactions to the inconsistency. A tough game to call for sure but emblematic of the poor job was the 4th foul on Figueroa, which besides being a horrible call was made by a ref on the other side of the court baseline while the ref at mid court had a perfect view of the play and let it ride. Bad calls are part of the game but that was ridiculous in my view. And the inconsistency was both ways, no question. SJU shot more foul shots but mostly a direct result of attacking the rim off the dribble.
- Jim Spanarkel, I know Jim and have great respect for him but two points, one inconsequential, one more a little glaring. He described Caraher as a “shooter” when he came in the game and that pissed me off a bit because if Jim really did his homework he would know that is not so; he is a pretty decent all around player. Is it just because he is white and that is the expectation? Poor job and too easy, lazy description for a guy who is a pro IMO. Second point, he and Culver spent some time criticizing the last call on Dunn, when the play really got interesting when Dunn got smacked in the face right before he started slipping. Did one contribute to the other? Regardless, I thought that also lazy and easy and Spanarkel as an ex-player should have seen the clear foul on the play. Again, just an opinion.
- Finally, a terrific game by two very tough minded teams. Back and forth, no back down by either teams in a very physical game for 94 feet both ways; very little, really no chippy play. Enjoyed the heck out of it.[/quote]
Great post
- I don’t usually comment or like commenting on the referees but in one of the worst reffed games I’ve seen in a while (they never remotely established what was or wasn’t a foul), I was very impressed by the fact that all involved, players and coaches, were professional and controlled in their reactions to the inconsistency. A tough game to call for sure but emblematic of the poor job was the 4th foul on Figueroa, which besides being a horrible call was made by a ref on the other side of the court baseline while the ref at mid court had a perfect view of the play and let it ride. Bad calls are part of the game but that was ridiculous in my view. And the inconsistency was both ways, no question. SJU shot more foul shots but mostly a direct result of attacking the rim off the dribble.
- Jim Spanarkel, I know Jim and have great respect for him but two points, one inconsequential, one more a little glaring. He described Caraher as a “shooter” when he came in the game and that pissed me off a bit because if Jim really did his homework he would know that is not so; he is a pretty decent all around player. Is it just because he is white and that is the expectation? Poor job and too easy, lazy description for a guy who is a pro IMO. Second point, he and Culver spent some time criticizing the last call on Dunn, when the play really got interesting when Dunn got smacked in the face right before he started slipping. Did one contribute to the other? Regardless, I thought that also lazy and easy and Spanarkel as an ex-player should have seen the clear foul on the play. Again, just an opinion.
- Finally, a terrific game by two very tough minded teams. Back and forth, no back down by either teams in a very physical game for 94 feet both ways; very little, really no chippy play. Enjoyed the heck out of it.[/quote]
Great post
Its*Over*Johnny
Member
I hope I'm wrong about this, but Caraher didn't seem quick enough to play against this level of opponent. It didn't look that way in any of our previous games...hopefully he's just hobbled a bit.
[quote="Its*Over*Johnny" post=366791]I hope I'm wrong about this, but Caraher didn't seem quick enough to play against this level of opponent. It didn't look that way in any of our previous games...hopefully he's just hobbled a bit.[/quote]
But heady enough to handle a tough double team and deliver a nice assist.
But heady enough to handle a tough double team and deliver a nice assist.
[quote="fan5577" post=366774][quote="usguard" post=366637]Yes a good win not not hitting our last 23 shots is bad we were fortunate to get the win but we are not going to win a close game if we do not do better in the
Last 10 mins of a game. Lot of work to do[/quote]
in most cases, at the end of the game, they ran the offense well and then just missed some easy or open shots; and then there were the turnovers. I agree some work to do but overall a gutsy tough win, banging with a bigger team.[/quote]
Interesting is that of the approx. 21 turnovers we had only 5 or 6 were steals. Which means the remaining were unforced errors on our part. Just saying.
Last 10 mins of a game. Lot of work to do[/quote]
in most cases, at the end of the game, they ran the offense well and then just missed some easy or open shots; and then there were the turnovers. I agree some work to do but overall a gutsy tough win, banging with a bigger team.[/quote]
Interesting is that of the approx. 21 turnovers we had only 5 or 6 were steals. Which means the remaining were unforced errors on our part. Just saying.
Redmen88
Well-known member
[quote="Its*Over*Johnny" post=366791]I hope I'm wrong about this, but Caraher didn't seem quick enough to play against this level of opponent. It didn't look that way in any of our previous games...hopefully he's just hobbled a bit.[/quote]
WVU is maybe the best defensive team in the country year in and year out. They can make anyone look bad. Great learning game AND getting the win.
WVU is maybe the best defensive team in the country year in and year out. They can make anyone look bad. Great learning game AND getting the win.
QueensBall
Member
Before yesterday's win St John's was #195 in RPI (all cupcake wins and even Umass has lost 3 in a row since we played them) after beating #1 West Virginia yesterday we jumped 55 spots to #140. 55 spots is a huge leap overnight for a home victory. Meanwhile Mountaineers fall one spot to #2 not getting penalized too heavily for a close road loss to us.
Don't read too much into RPI or any metric this early but just showing what a good win it was at this point in the season. These are obviously not indicative of a teams true standing. For context, Seton Hall is only #71 in RPI while Providence is way down at #254. DePaul is like #24 or something...
Don't read too much into RPI or any metric this early but just showing what a good win it was at this point in the season. These are obviously not indicative of a teams true standing. For context, Seton Hall is only #71 in RPI while Providence is way down at #254. DePaul is like #24 or something...
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[quote="Logen" post=366757]
- Jim Spanarkel, I know Jim and have great respect for him but two points, one inconsequential, one more a little glaring. He described Caraher as a “shooter” when he came in the game and that pissed me off a bit because if Jim really did his homework he would know that is not so; he is a pretty decent all around player. Is it just because he is white and that is the expectation? Poor job and too easy, lazy description for a guy who is a pro IMO. Second point, he and Culver spent some time criticizing the last call on Dunn, when the play really got interesting when Dunn got smacked in the face right before he started slipping. Did one contribute to the other? Regardless, I thought that also lazy and easy and Spanarkel as an ex-player should have seen the clear foul on the play. Again, just an opinion.[/quote]
Good call on this one. Spanarkel had a bad day. Both commentators did. It started to feel like I was watching a WVU broadcast down the stretch because they’d agree with every call the mountaineers got and questioned every call we happened to get. I was getting frustrated.
Obviously I’m biased but Spanarkel was adamant that LJ’s 4th was the correct call and I did not see it whatsoever. And that was a big loss. In a way it cost us LJ for the rest of the game because he had to sit for awhile and then by the time he got back in he had lost all the mojo he had.
Spanarkel has done like 6 St. John’s games this year so I thought he’d have a better day.
- Jim Spanarkel, I know Jim and have great respect for him but two points, one inconsequential, one more a little glaring. He described Caraher as a “shooter” when he came in the game and that pissed me off a bit because if Jim really did his homework he would know that is not so; he is a pretty decent all around player. Is it just because he is white and that is the expectation? Poor job and too easy, lazy description for a guy who is a pro IMO. Second point, he and Culver spent some time criticizing the last call on Dunn, when the play really got interesting when Dunn got smacked in the face right before he started slipping. Did one contribute to the other? Regardless, I thought that also lazy and easy and Spanarkel as an ex-player should have seen the clear foul on the play. Again, just an opinion.[/quote]
Good call on this one. Spanarkel had a bad day. Both commentators did. It started to feel like I was watching a WVU broadcast down the stretch because they’d agree with every call the mountaineers got and questioned every call we happened to get. I was getting frustrated.
Obviously I’m biased but Spanarkel was adamant that LJ’s 4th was the correct call and I did not see it whatsoever. And that was a big loss. In a way it cost us LJ for the rest of the game because he had to sit for awhile and then by the time he got back in he had lost all the mojo he had.
Spanarkel has done like 6 St. John’s games this year so I thought he’d have a better day.
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QueensBall
Member
There's an argument to be made that the phantom hook call that put our best player on the bench with his 4th foul for a huge chunk of the 2nd half impacted the final score much more than the call that put Dunn on the line. I don't understand how someone could be certain the LJ call was correct and the Dunn call was incorrect. At the very least concede that the LJ call was ticky tack.
Refs were bad. I mentioned this in the game thread but it felt like I was watching an ump with an inconsistent strike zone and everyone was getting frustrated that what was considered a strike in the 3rd inning was a ball in the 4th and then a strike again in the 5th. We had 3 non-shooting fouls called on us in a 10 second span at one point in the 2nd half and then the BS call on Figueroa like a minute or two after that.
Refs were bad. I mentioned this in the game thread but it felt like I was watching an ump with an inconsistent strike zone and everyone was getting frustrated that what was considered a strike in the 3rd inning was a ball in the 4th and then a strike again in the 5th. We had 3 non-shooting fouls called on us in a 10 second span at one point in the 2nd half and then the BS call on Figueroa like a minute or two after that.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but this game has a very good chance at being Q1. Last year we only had 1 Q1 OOC win (VCU- we also lost a Q1 game @ Duke). If WVU finishes top 30 then it'll count as Q1.
As for RPI, I expect our NET to be better than that. NET favors beating up on cupcakes by 10+ points, which we have done in the 7 wins prior to yesterday. Now, the key to that is you also have to get Q1 wins. We went to the Dance last year because we added 4 or 5 Q1 Big East wins. NC State had a wayyyyyyy better NET (I think mid 30's vs us at 73), but only a couple Q1 wins so that's why they didn't make it. The Big East will have plenty of Q1 opportunities this year, so if we're good enough we will Dance or make the NIT. We're in great shape!
As for RPI, I expect our NET to be better than that. NET favors beating up on cupcakes by 10+ points, which we have done in the 7 wins prior to yesterday. Now, the key to that is you also have to get Q1 wins. We went to the Dance last year because we added 4 or 5 Q1 Big East wins. NC State had a wayyyyyyy better NET (I think mid 30's vs us at 73), but only a couple Q1 wins so that's why they didn't make it. The Big East will have plenty of Q1 opportunities this year, so if we're good enough we will Dance or make the NIT. We're in great shape!
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A little late on posting, but watched the second half of the game on a JetBlue flight to the Bahamas. On one hand, would have been quite stressful if I couldn’t watch the game during the flight. On the other hand, my wife was (justifiably) concerned that I was going to be banned from JetBlue, and the Bahamas, given the stressful nature of this game. Those last four minutes were predictable albeit predictable — except for the end result.
As far as substantive comments, I largely agree with all that has been said about the major themes. Still, I will add that it’s vey impressive when your coach “outcoaches” a Bob Huggins coached team. CMA appears to get BOTH the X’s and O’s, as well as the importance of grit, heart and determination. A great combination.
As far as substantive comments, I largely agree with all that has been said about the major themes. Still, I will add that it’s vey impressive when your coach “outcoaches” a Bob Huggins coached team. CMA appears to get BOTH the X’s and O’s, as well as the importance of grit, heart and determination. A great combination.
[quote="Mario" post=366794][quote="fan5577" post=366774][quote="usguard" post=366637]Yes a good win not not hitting our last 23 shots is bad we were fortunate to get the win but we are not going to win a close game if we do not do better in the
Last 10 mins of a game. Lot of work to do[/quote]
in most cases, at the end of the game, they ran the offense well and then just missed some easy or open shots; and then there were the turnovers. I agree some work to do but overall a gutsy tough win, banging with a bigger team.[/quote]
Interesting is that of the approx. 21 turnovers we had only 5 or 6 were steals. Which means the remaining were unforced errors on our part. Just saying.[/quote]
We had 15 steals.
Last 10 mins of a game. Lot of work to do[/quote]
in most cases, at the end of the game, they ran the offense well and then just missed some easy or open shots; and then there were the turnovers. I agree some work to do but overall a gutsy tough win, banging with a bigger team.[/quote]
Interesting is that of the approx. 21 turnovers we had only 5 or 6 were steals. Which means the remaining were unforced errors on our part. Just saying.[/quote]
We had 15 steals.
Mario wrote: Interesting is that of the approx. 21 turnovers we had only 5 or 6 were steals. Which means the remaining were unforced errors on our part. Just saying.
We committed 14 turnovers and WV committed 22 of which 15 were steals by us.
We committed 14 turnovers and WV committed 22 of which 15 were steals by us.
[quote="PharmDJohnnie11" post=366751]The biggest difference I notice between CMA's team versus the past 2 coaches teams is the depth, and the readiness of bench players to contribute. Even with LJ out most of the 2nd half with foul trouble (and not scoring a single point in the half), and Heron playing terribly they still managed to win a game vs a quality opponent.
Last year and with past teams as a fan watching you knew the opposing team was about to go on a big run once "Star Player X" was taken out of the game. With this team even with LJ and Heron out I feel at ease with bench players like Dunn, Caraher, Earlington, and Greg Williams all out on the floor at the same time.
Last year when last year's version of Josh Roberts, Earlington, Trimble and Keita were all on the floor at the same time with Ponds/Simon out of the game you knew we weren't going to be scoring much. But this year the transition to the bench players is seemless. This gives me a lot of hope for next year and future seasons, once LJ and Heron leave, because it seems CMA's system relies more on the contributions of many rather than of a few star players.[/quote]
The biggest difference I've noticed is the unselfishness between the players. Dunn passing up an open three to give the ball to LJ for an open 3 was a prime example. Dunn knows that LJ's shot is a higher %. That didn't happen with the last 2 teams. It was every man for himself. And unselfishness on offense tends to extend to the same on defense. Unreal that this team of kids who, for the most part haven't played together before this year, can gel so quickly as a unit. Kudos to CMA and the staff for making this happen.
Last year and with past teams as a fan watching you knew the opposing team was about to go on a big run once "Star Player X" was taken out of the game. With this team even with LJ and Heron out I feel at ease with bench players like Dunn, Caraher, Earlington, and Greg Williams all out on the floor at the same time.
Last year when last year's version of Josh Roberts, Earlington, Trimble and Keita were all on the floor at the same time with Ponds/Simon out of the game you knew we weren't going to be scoring much. But this year the transition to the bench players is seemless. This gives me a lot of hope for next year and future seasons, once LJ and Heron leave, because it seems CMA's system relies more on the contributions of many rather than of a few star players.[/quote]
The biggest difference I've noticed is the unselfishness between the players. Dunn passing up an open three to give the ball to LJ for an open 3 was a prime example. Dunn knows that LJ's shot is a higher %. That didn't happen with the last 2 teams. It was every man for himself. And unselfishness on offense tends to extend to the same on defense. Unreal that this team of kids who, for the most part haven't played together before this year, can gel so quickly as a unit. Kudos to CMA and the staff for making this happen.
Did not hear or see the game
But saw the result =
Nice!
Here’s West Virginia’s take on the game
WVU basketball: St. John's hands Mountaineers first loss, 70-68
By Brian Towey For the Gazette-Mail 19 hrs ago
Local journalism makes a difference
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wvu st johns
WVU’s Oscar Tshiebwe (left) is fouled by St. John’s Josh Roberts.
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NEW YORK — Of all the numbers you’d associate with West Virginia basketball, some that came out of the first half of the Mountaineers’ 70-68 loss to St. John’s were not what you’d expect.
The Mountaineers, in a frenzied Madison Square Garden environment, had given up 12 offensive rebounds. They’d been turned over 13 times. St. John’s had 10 steals.
In short, a team that prides itself on its toughness and workmanship was getting outworked.
“[St. John’s] competed,” WVU coach Bob Huggins said following the Mountaineers’ first loss of the season. “That’s the biggest thing. We didn’t rise to their level of aggression. We didn’t rise to their level of competitiveness.”
WVU’s Miles McBride missed a potential game-tying shot as time expired. McBride, with a pair of key steals in the final two minutes, had led the Mountaineers back.
Still, despite 18 rebounds from Derek Culver, it felt like the game had already been won.
“We’re young,” Huggins said. “We’ve got a lot of young guys and we’ve had some success. We didn’t handle it very well.
“Our preparation wasn’t very good. I told them they had a very good coach.”
WVU freshman Oscar Tshiebwe (eight points and six rebounds) seemed a shadow of himself amidst St. John’s high-pressure defense.
And it wasn’t until the 15-minute mark in the second half, when Culver rattled off two reverberating dunks, that West Virginia mounted some momentum.
“This game came down to toughness, came down to determination,” St. John’s coach Mike Anderson said. “Their big guys have been annihilating people. You saw it in the back-to-back dunks.”
St. John’s sped up the game in the first half. Sean McNeil, with a pair of well-placed 3-pointers, gave West Virginia a 32-30 lead with 3:43 to play. Culver, with a nifty baseline drive, and Brandon Knapper, who contributed two key baskets during the first-half streak, aided the run. But despite holding St. John’s (6-2) to 1 of 12 from 3-point range in the first half, the game felt lopsided.
“St. John’s was really aggressive around the ball,” Huggins said. “I thought they had every loose ball in the first half.”
In this setting, with a 36-36 halftime score, Culver took it upon himself to rally the Mountaineers.
He brought West Virginia momentum with a vicious two-handed dunk. Then he dunked again a possession later for a 44-43 lead at 15:38.
It was around this time that Gabe Osabuohien, who’d provided Huggins with an unexpected second-half spark, motioned to the crowd in the Garden seats to amplify the run.
Yet West Virginia had no answers for cat-like St. John’s guard Rasheem Dunn, who multiple times drove the lane for buckets. When St. John’s guard Greg Williams Jr. flicked in a 3-pointer at 13:00 as the shot clock expired, St. John’s had a 52-43 lead.
And despite some late-breaking runs, the Mountaineers (7-1) were clearly gassed heading into the game’s later stages.
Despite venerable efforts by Osabuohien, McNeil’s shooting (13 points), and McBride’s heroics, West Virginia was clearly spent.
“This game was going to be won in the paint,” Anderson said. “If you look at West Virginia, at their rebounding, they’ve been bigger on the boards. I think we matched their physicality.”
But saw the result =
Nice!
Here’s West Virginia’s take on the game
WVU basketball: St. John's hands Mountaineers first loss, 70-68
By Brian Towey For the Gazette-Mail 19 hrs ago
Local journalism makes a difference
Your support makes that possible — subscribe today for 99¢
Learn more about HD Media
wvu st johns
WVU’s Oscar Tshiebwe (left) is fouled by St. John’s Josh Roberts.
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NEW YORK — Of all the numbers you’d associate with West Virginia basketball, some that came out of the first half of the Mountaineers’ 70-68 loss to St. John’s were not what you’d expect.
The Mountaineers, in a frenzied Madison Square Garden environment, had given up 12 offensive rebounds. They’d been turned over 13 times. St. John’s had 10 steals.
In short, a team that prides itself on its toughness and workmanship was getting outworked.
“[St. John’s] competed,” WVU coach Bob Huggins said following the Mountaineers’ first loss of the season. “That’s the biggest thing. We didn’t rise to their level of aggression. We didn’t rise to their level of competitiveness.”
WVU’s Miles McBride missed a potential game-tying shot as time expired. McBride, with a pair of key steals in the final two minutes, had led the Mountaineers back.
Still, despite 18 rebounds from Derek Culver, it felt like the game had already been won.
“We’re young,” Huggins said. “We’ve got a lot of young guys and we’ve had some success. We didn’t handle it very well.
“Our preparation wasn’t very good. I told them they had a very good coach.”
WVU freshman Oscar Tshiebwe (eight points and six rebounds) seemed a shadow of himself amidst St. John’s high-pressure defense.
And it wasn’t until the 15-minute mark in the second half, when Culver rattled off two reverberating dunks, that West Virginia mounted some momentum.
“This game came down to toughness, came down to determination,” St. John’s coach Mike Anderson said. “Their big guys have been annihilating people. You saw it in the back-to-back dunks.”
St. John’s sped up the game in the first half. Sean McNeil, with a pair of well-placed 3-pointers, gave West Virginia a 32-30 lead with 3:43 to play. Culver, with a nifty baseline drive, and Brandon Knapper, who contributed two key baskets during the first-half streak, aided the run. But despite holding St. John’s (6-2) to 1 of 12 from 3-point range in the first half, the game felt lopsided.
“St. John’s was really aggressive around the ball,” Huggins said. “I thought they had every loose ball in the first half.”
In this setting, with a 36-36 halftime score, Culver took it upon himself to rally the Mountaineers.
He brought West Virginia momentum with a vicious two-handed dunk. Then he dunked again a possession later for a 44-43 lead at 15:38.
It was around this time that Gabe Osabuohien, who’d provided Huggins with an unexpected second-half spark, motioned to the crowd in the Garden seats to amplify the run.
Yet West Virginia had no answers for cat-like St. John’s guard Rasheem Dunn, who multiple times drove the lane for buckets. When St. John’s guard Greg Williams Jr. flicked in a 3-pointer at 13:00 as the shot clock expired, St. John’s had a 52-43 lead.
And despite some late-breaking runs, the Mountaineers (7-1) were clearly gassed heading into the game’s later stages.
Despite venerable efforts by Osabuohien, McNeil’s shooting (13 points), and McBride’s heroics, West Virginia was clearly spent.
“This game was going to be won in the paint,” Anderson said. “If you look at West Virginia, at their rebounding, they’ve been bigger on the boards. I think we matched their physicality.”
Great game, aside from the great players, do not under estimate the coaching. Coaching was a huge factor yesterday, this is a game previous coaching staffs would have lost. I hope Heron finds his grove back, the way this is going he will not even be the number 3 player on this team.
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