(POST GAME) New Hampshire, Tue. Nov. 12, 7p, FS-2, 970 WNYM

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This game exposed some of the problems I thought we would have going into the season. "40 minutes of hell" is a great concept but what happens when you aren't turning the other team over? We did not force many turnovers in the first half, and it hurt.

The blueprint to beating us is pretty clear already,

1) take care of the ball
2) shut down Heron & Figgy

Here is to hoping we make both of those things impossible to do by improving our own play. It is nice to be 3-0.

Positives: Mike A continues to show me something already with in game adjustments. We were panicking way too much on offense in the first half, forcing things. Whatever he did at the half worked, we were much more focused and patient on offense for the rest of the game.

Again, I don't think this roster is quite strong enough to do much in a strong Big East this year, but if our young guys can continue to improve and Mike A continues to show he is our best game coach we have had, honestly in my entire lifetime, then I will consider this season a success regardless of the W/L
 
This kind of game can't hurt, especially with Heron's poor shooting night. Thought he was rushing his three pointers, still contributed with 5 assists. Still love the game of Champagnie, steady and under control, doesn't panic or force shots. And just a freshmen. Good pickup coach. As announcer Jim Sparnarkle mentioned our back door defense needs plenty of work. Got to do better stopping the opposition's penetration, too many easy baskets. It was obvious our pressure defense tired N.H and caused turnovers. in the second half.
Did I miss something? Couldn't understand why Caraher didn't play more, especially in the first half. Only returned with 13 minutes left in second half, played only 9 minutes totally. Nice overall game from Roberts. Rutherford cannot have 6 turnovers, slow it down. Thank you LJ! .
 
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"A year ago" isn't accurate since we went undefeated OOC. 2-4 years ago is accurate. We lost to plenty of cupcakes.

Coming back from a double digit deficit, regardless of the level of competition, is an important growing experience. St. John's got used to that last year (vs Georgia Tech, Cal, VCU, Bowling Green, Villanova, etc) but the new freshmen and transfers needed to experience it. Job well done.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=362911]This game exposed some of the problems I thought we would have going into the season. "40 minutes of hell" is a great concept but what happens when you aren't turning the other team over? We did not force many turnovers in the first half, and it hurt.

The blueprint to beating us is pretty clear already,

1) take care of the ball
2) shut down Heron & Figgy

Here is to hoping we make both of those things impossible to do by improving our own play. It is nice to be 3-0.

Positives: Mike A continues to show me something already with in game adjustments. We were panicking way too much on offense in the first half, forcing things. Whatever he did at the half worked, we were much more focused and patient on offense for the rest of the game.

Again, I don't think this roster is quite strong enough to do much in a strong Big East this year, but if our young guys can continue to improve and Mike A continues to show he is our best game coach we have had, honestly in my entire lifetime, then I will consider this season a success regardless of the W/L[/quote]

Come on, the blueprint to win ANY game is to “take care of the ball” and stop the other teams two top scorers. ANY team looks bad when the ball doesn’t go in the basket. Things change game to game. Realistically could we expect Heron to shoot 10 for 13 from 3 forever? UNH did nothing to stop him, law of averages and an off day shooting. Defense is the constant in basketball and we stayed the course and won by double digits. UNH has an experienced coach and they were well prepared and shot well out of the gate. In short, they played a good game especially in the first 10-15 minutes. From the time they went up double digits to the end we were 20+. Biggest take for me? Caraher’s 6 points coming at an opportune time in the 1st half to keep us in touch, and Champagnie playing aggressively and confidently when we finally created separation. Of course we have weaknesses, every team does. But we move on with a W..........
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=362911]This game exposed some of the problems I thought we would have going into the season. "40 minutes of hell" is a great concept but what happens when you aren't turning the other team over? We did not force many turnovers in the first half, and it hurt.

The blueprint to beating us is pretty clear already,

1) take care of the ball
2) shut down Heron & Figgy

Here is to hoping we make both of those things impossible to do by improving our own play. It is nice to be 3-0.

Positives: Mike A continues to show me something already with in game adjustments. We were panicking way too much on offense in the first half, forcing things. Whatever he did at the half worked, we were much more focused and patient on offense for the rest of the game.

Again, I don't think this roster is quite strong enough to do much in a strong Big East this year, but if our young guys can continue to improve and Mike A continues to show he is our best game coach we have had, honestly in my entire lifetime, then I will consider this season a success regardless of the W/L[/quote]

As usual, solid review.

Disappointing that student tickets are completely free, but if anything there are less students showing up for games so far than last season. Maybe we have to feed them also for free.
 
[quote="Knight" post=362927]How about free tickets for Alumni? :)[/quote]

I'd propose senior citizen pricing, but that's at least 1/2 of our season ticket base and that's generous.
 
The pressure defense didn't have the desidered effect on N. H. In the first half but did it result in their wearing down in the second half?
 
[quote="Logen" post=362915][quote="Jack Williams" post=362911]This game exposed some of the problems I thought we would have going into the season. "40 minutes of hell" is a great concept but what happens when you aren't turning the other team over? We did not force many turnovers in the first half, and it hurt.

The blueprint to beating us is pretty clear already,

1) take care of the ball
2) shut down Heron & Figgy

Here is to hoping we make both of those things impossible to do by improving our own play. It is nice to be 3-0.

Positives: Mike A continues to show me something already with in game adjustments. We were panicking way too much on offense in the first half, forcing things. Whatever he did at the half worked, we were much more focused and patient on offense for the rest of the game.

Again, I don't think this roster is quite strong enough to do much in a strong Big East this year, but if our young guys can continue to improve and Mike A continues to show he is our best game coach we have had, honestly in my entire lifetime, then I will consider this season a success regardless of the W/L[/quote]

Come on, the blueprint to win ANY game is to “take care of the ball” and stop the other teams two top scorers. ANY team looks bad when the ball doesn’t go in the basket. Things change game to game. Realistically could we expect Heron to shoot 10 for 13 from 3 forever? UNH did nothing to stop him, law of averages and an off day shooting. Defense is the constant in basketball and we stayed the course and won by double digits. UNH has an experienced coach and they were well prepared and shot well out of the gate. In short, they played a good game especially in the first 10-15 minutes. From the time they went up double digits to the end we were 20+. Biggest take for me? Caraher’s 6 points coming at an opportune time in the 1st half to keep us in touch, and Champagnie playing aggressively and confidently when we finally created separation. Of course we have weaknesses, every team does. But we move on with a W..........[/quote]


Um... there are a lot of teams in college basketball who are very deep and solid to the point where shutting down the top 2 scorers won’t get you a win.

If you don’t see the drop off on the team offensively after our top two players, I can’t help you. You’ll see it soon enough when it costs us games.

As for my taking care of the ball comment, yes every team in the country should try to take care of the ball, sure, but some teams thrive off turnovers more than others. I don’t think that’s an unfair statement? Kansas turned the ball over against Duke like 30 times but they were still right there in the end because Duke didn’t take advantage very much. We clearly make it a point of emphasis to take advantage of turnovers and push the ball.

It’s early in the season, but so far we are tied for 18th in the entire country in forcing turnovers. Protecting the ball is always important, but it is even more important against us. That’s what I’m saying.
 
[quote="Enright" post=362931]The pressure defense didn't have the desidered effect on N. H. In the first half but did it result in their wearing down in the second half?[/quote]

I'm sure it did, a little bit.

We also looked so concerned about cutting off the three point shot early, that we let them walk right in the lane, for easy hoops. Last night, IMO, was not the night to cut off the three. Last night was the night to encourage it, because New Hampshire couldn't shoot. They made a few early, but it didn't last.
 
These last three games reminded me how much I like watching a team that puts a lot of effort into rebounding.
 
Very healthy for the team to get the experience of playing (and winning) a game when the top scorer had an off night. LJ stepped up and they got contributions from the group of Roberts, Carraher, Champagnie, Earlington. A very positive development, and a credit to the coaching staff.

Still short a PG, a big, and a third scoring option, but great job surviving and advancing despite that. Big test coming up Saturday.
 
[quote="Knight" post=362910]Newsday reported attendance at 3,320. Disappointing.[/quote]
Very
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=362932][quote="Logen" post=362915][quote="Jack Williams" post=362911]This game exposed some of the problems I thought we would have going into the season. "40 minutes of hell" is a great concept but what happens when you aren't turning the other team over? We did not force many turnovers in the first half, and it hurt.

The blueprint to beating us is pretty clear already,

1) take care of the ball
2) shut down Heron & Figgy

Here is to hoping we make both of those things impossible to do by improving our own play. It is nice to be 3-0.

Positives: Mike A continues to show me something already with in game adjustments. We were panicking way too much on offense in the first half, forcing things. Whatever he did at the half worked, we were much more focused and patient on offense for the rest of the game.

Again, I don't think this roster is quite strong enough to do much in a strong Big East this year, but if our young guys can continue to improve and Mike A continues to show he is our best game coach we have had, honestly in my entire lifetime, then I will consider this season a success regardless of the W/L[/quote]

Come on, the blueprint to win ANY game is to “take care of the ball” and stop the other teams two top scorers. ANY team looks bad when the ball doesn’t go in the basket. Things change game to game. Realistically could we expect Heron to shoot 10 for 13 from 3 forever? UNH did nothing to stop him, law of averages and an off day shooting. Defense is the constant in basketball and we stayed the course and won by double digits. UNH has an experienced coach and they were well prepared and shot well out of the gate. In short, they played a good game especially in the first 10-15 minutes. From the time they went up double digits to the end we were 20+. Biggest take for me? Caraher’s 6 points coming at an opportune time in the 1st half to keep us in touch, and Champagnie playing aggressively and confidently when we finally created separation. Of course we have weaknesses, every team does. But we move on with a W..........[/quote]


Um... there are a lot of teams in college basketball who are very deep and solid to the point where shutting down the top 2 scorers won’t get you a win.

If you don’t see the drop off on the team offensively after our top two players, I can’t help you. You’ll see it soon enough when it costs us games.

As for my taking care of the ball comment, yes every team in the country should try to take care of the ball, sure, but some teams thrive off turnovers more than others. I don’t think that’s an unfair statement? Kansas turned the ball over against Duke like 30 times but they were still right there in the end because Duke didn’t take advantage very much. We clearly make it a point of emphasis to take advantage of turnovers and push the ball.

It’s early in the season, but so far we are tied for 18th in the entire country in forcing turnovers. Protecting the ball is always important, but it is even more important against us. That’s what I’m saying.[/quote]

Um, well if your argument is that our weaknesses are going to lose us games, I agree; but then I never considered the possibility we would go undefeated. Is that your expectation? Also, outside of the cheaters, I would be interested in your list of “a lot of teams.” We are not Duke and Kansas, and if that is your yardstick for judging this SJU team there is nothing to talk about.
 
In defense of Jack's review, there is certainly a strategy to protect the ball at all costs.

Looie's team always favored a guard who would make few mistakes and be unflappable against a press - low turnovers and someone who would not turn the ball over much. Bobby Kelly, Tom Calabrese were good examples.

Lavin's teams would sacrifice a good ball handler at point in favor of a guy who could make things happen. It's why Hardy started over Boothe, why Pointer often brought the ball up and our best point guard that season was a 6th man.

I think Jack's thinking is by not turning the ball over and causing a lot of turnovers with pressure defense, we can offset the expected rebounding deficit by creating a turnover deficit.

I did hear both Nolan Richardson and CMA speak about playing at a hellacious speed on defense and offense - push the ball upcourt before the defense has a chance to set, and play the kind of defense that no one like to face, continually mixing it up, but making opponents play faster than they'd like, where mistakes and turnovers occur. Nolan Richardson's logic: "Our teams are used to playing that way. Opponents aren't. IT give us 2 chances to win, at both ends of the court"

I absolutely share Jack's opinion that the key to beating St. John's is to make sure to stop Heron and Figueroa, and let anyone else beat us. Those two will get points somehow, but make them by shooting 6-17 by ganging up on both. Georgetown beat an arguably more talented St. John's team by keying on Berry and Mullin, and even with other guys who could play, the rest couldn't come close to offsetting our top two being bottled up.

Even last season, teams were more than happy to have anyone not named Ponds beat us. In the second half of the season defenses packed it in, and made him either shoot over a zone from as far away as 30 feet, or made him face a wall of 2-3 players when he took it to the hoop. No one - not Heron, Figgy, Clark, or Simon would be money in the bank when wide open from 18 feet.

There is a right and wrong way to play, and the confidence I have in CMA is that even with a roster short on depth and talent 3-9 he will have them playing the right way. It's hard to assess vs. grade B competition - we wouldn't have recruited a single guy that our first three opponents went after, and they would gladly take any of our top 9 players - but so far there are positive signs.
 
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Teams should certainly try to stop Figs and Heron. That said, adding a kid like Dunn who can also provide some penetration to the basket and some scoring could be very valuable. Add to that if we can get our big guy Steere, along with Roberts, Chanpagnie to be able to suck the ball down low and score a bunch more there, we become that much more difficult to just key on our top 2 guys. We also run a lot and pressure defend. It’s not like we settle into half court sets. Look at how hard a time teams have handling guys like Powell or Howard and they are just one guy. Easier said than done sometimes.
 
[quote="Logen" post=363122][quote="Jack Williams" post=362932][quote="Logen" post=362915][quote="Jack Williams" post=362911]This game exposed some of the problems I thought we would have going into the season. "40 minutes of hell" is a great concept but what happens when you aren't turning the other team over? We did not force many turnovers in the first half, and it hurt.

The blueprint to beating us is pretty clear already,

1) take care of the ball
2) shut down Heron & Figgy

Here is to hoping we make both of those things impossible to do by improving our own play. It is nice to be 3-0.

Positives: Mike A continues to show me something already with in game adjustments. We were panicking way too much on offense in the first half, forcing things. Whatever he did at the half worked, we were much more focused and patient on offense for the rest of the game.

Again, I don't think this roster is quite strong enough to do much in a strong Big East this year, but if our young guys can continue to improve and Mike A continues to show he is our best game coach we have had, honestly in my entire lifetime, then I will consider this season a success regardless of the W/L[/quote]

Come on, the blueprint to win ANY game is to “take care of the ball” and stop the other teams two top scorers. ANY team looks bad when the ball doesn’t go in the basket. Things change game to game. Realistically could we expect Heron to shoot 10 for 13 from 3 forever? UNH did nothing to stop him, law of averages and an off day shooting. Defense is the constant in basketball and we stayed the course and won by double digits. UNH has an experienced coach and they were well prepared and shot well out of the gate. In short, they played a good game especially in the first 10-15 minutes. From the time they went up double digits to the end we were 20+. Biggest take for me? Caraher’s 6 points coming at an opportune time in the 1st half to keep us in touch, and Champagnie playing aggressively and confidently when we finally created separation. Of course we have weaknesses, every team does. But we move on with a W..........[/quote]


Um... there are a lot of teams in college basketball who are very deep and solid to the point where shutting down the top 2 scorers won’t get you a win.

If you don’t see the drop off on the team offensively after our top two players, I can’t help you. You’ll see it soon enough when it costs us games.

As for my taking care of the ball comment, yes every team in the country should try to take care of the ball, sure, but some teams thrive off turnovers more than others. I don’t think that’s an unfair statement? Kansas turned the ball over against Duke like 30 times but they were still right there in the end because Duke didn’t take advantage very much. We clearly make it a point of emphasis to take advantage of turnovers and push the ball.

It’s early in the season, but so far we are tied for 18th in the entire country in forcing turnovers. Protecting the ball is always important, but it is even more important against us. That’s what I’m saying.[/quote]

Um, well if your argument is that our weaknesses are going to lose us games, I agree; but then I never considered the possibility we would go undefeated. Is that your expectation? Also, outside of the cheaters, I would be interested in your list of “a lot of teams.” We are not Duke and Kansas, and if that is your yardstick for judging this SJU team there is nothing to talk about.[/quote]


No one is saying we should go undefeated and that we are duke or Kansas. You’re putting words in my mouth, why?

There are deep rosters in college basketball that aren’t blue blood programs...

You seem to be disagreeing with me based on things you created in your head. I never said we’d go undefeated and certainly don’t think we are duke/Kansas.

I was simply pointing out that we have certain weaknesses and also heavily rely on forcing turnovers. I don’t see the problem here, just because we beat New Hampshire means I shouldn’t share some things I saw that could maybe hurt us this year? I’m sorry, next time it’ll be all sunshine and rainbows from me.

By the way, I think Dunn will help a lot and I’m definitely more optimistic than I was at the beginning of this discussions because he hadn’t been cleared yet.
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=363173][quote="Logen" post=363122][quote="Jack Williams" post=362932][quote="Logen" post=362915][quote="Jack Williams" post=362911]This game exposed some of the problems I thought we would have going into the season. "40 minutes of hell" is a great concept but what happens when you aren't turning the other team over? We did not force many turnovers in the first half, and it hurt.

The blueprint to beating us is pretty clear already,

1) take care of the ball
2) shut down Heron & Figgy

Here is to hoping we make both of those things impossible to do by improving our own play. It is nice to be 3-0.

Positives: Mike A continues to show me something already with in game adjustments. We were panicking way too much on offense in the first half, forcing things. Whatever he did at the half worked, we were much more focused and patient on offense for the rest of the game.

Again, I don't think this roster is quite strong enough to do much in a strong Big East this year, but if our young guys can continue to improve and Mike A continues to show he is our best game coach we have had, honestly in my entire lifetime, then I will consider this season a success regardless of the W/L[/quote]

Come on, the blueprint to win ANY game is to “take care of the ball” and stop the other teams two top scorers. ANY team looks bad when the ball doesn’t go in the basket. Things change game to game. Realistically could we expect Heron to shoot 10 for 13 from 3 forever? UNH did nothing to stop him, law of averages and an off day shooting. Defense is the constant in basketball and we stayed the course and won by double digits. UNH has an experienced coach and they were well prepared and shot well out of the gate. In short, they played a good game especially in the first 10-15 minutes. From the time they went up double digits to the end we were 20+. Biggest take for me? Caraher’s 6 points coming at an opportune time in the 1st half to keep us in touch, and Champagnie playing aggressively and confidently when we finally created separation. Of course we have weaknesses, every team does. But we move on with a W..........[/quote]


Um... there are a lot of teams in college basketball who are very deep and solid to the point where shutting down the top 2 scorers won’t get you a win.

If you don’t see the drop off on the team offensively after our top two players, I can’t help you. You’ll see it soon enough when it costs us games.

As for my taking care of the ball comment, yes every team in the country should try to take care of the ball, sure, but some teams thrive off turnovers more than others. I don’t think that’s an unfair statement? Kansas turned the ball over against Duke like 30 times but they were still right there in the end because Duke didn’t take advantage very much. We clearly make it a point of emphasis to take advantage of turnovers and push the ball.

It’s early in the season, but so far we are tied for 18th in the entire country in forcing turnovers. Protecting the ball is always important, but it is even more important against us. That’s what I’m saying.[/quote]

Um, well if your argument is that our weaknesses are going to lose us games, I agree; but then I never considered the possibility we would go undefeated. Is that your expectation? Also, outside of the cheaters, I would be interested in your list of “a lot of teams.” We are not Duke and Kansas, and if that is your yardstick for judging this SJU team there is nothing to talk about.[/quote]


No one is saying we should go undefeated and that we are duke or Kansas. You’re putting words in my mouth, why?

There are deep rosters in college basketball that aren’t blue blood programs...

You seem to be disagreeing with me based on things you created in your head. I never said we’d go undefeated and certainly don’t think we are duke/Kansas.

I was simply pointing out that we have certain weaknesses and also heavily rely on forcing turnovers. I don’t see the problem here, just because we beat New Hampshire means I shouldn’t share some things I saw that could maybe hurt us this year? I’m sorry, next time it’ll be all sunshine and rainbows from me.

By the way, I think Dunn will help a lot and I’m definitely more optimistic than I was at the beginning of this discussions because he hadn’t been cleared yet.[/quote]

Not looking for sunshine and rainbows, and maybe I am wrong and owe you an apology but I remember a lot more insightful stuff from you last year than what you offered in your original post. You did not seem like a cliche guy, my bad.
 
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