(POST GAME) @Marquette, Sat., Mar. 5, 9p, FS-1

[beast of the east]

I've read 4 pages of post game and no one has pointed out how Mathis just can't put the ball in the basket.  Like the kid's intensity, his d, even his passing and movement but he can't put the ball in the basket.  Shame.

I posted something in the game thread late about Mathis not finishing shots.   He makes a lot of poor decisions, but even when he throws a great move, often doesn't put it down.

 

[redmanwest]

Amazingly, our guys lost while out scoring Marquette after the first 2 minute 10-0 start and without our 2 best players playing well.  2 minutes late and a dollar short. 

 

[Ray Morgan]

Before the game started, Marquette was leading 5 to 0. That's the number of 4* recruits Marquette plays compared to us. They have a 6th 4 star recruit that sits on the bench. Four star Justin Lewis was the best player on the court. He destroyed us.  We lost to Providence because 4 star Nate Watson overpowered out frontcourt. Same problem with the loss to UConn as 4* Adama Sanogo jumps over Wheeler for the offensive rebound when we had the game in the bag. Stars come through in the clutch. Stars do it night in and night out. Until St, John's figures out how to bring 4 star recruits here, the outcome will be the same every year. Yes, player development matters. Coaching matters. But nothing matters more than talent. We play nearly every conference game with less of it.

 

[Section9]

Wusu 19 pts ,Coburn and Smith 0. Could have had this game.

Coburn barely played.

He looked really good while he was out there.

 

[Mullins Revenge]

Wusu 19 pts ,Coburn and Smith 0. Could have had this game.

Coburn barely played.

He looked really good while he was out there.

Why did coach start him?  He pulled him out within the first 2 minutes of the game and he played 5 total minutes last night.  Just mind boggling what goes through this coaches head regarding substitutions.

 

[redmanwest]

Before the game started, Marquette was leading 5 to 0. That's the number of 4* recruits Marquette plays compared to us. They have a 6th 4 star recruit that sits on the bench. Four star Justin Lewis was the best player on the court. He destroyed us.  We lost to Providence because 4 star Nate Watson overpowered out frontcourt. Same problem with the loss to UConn as 4* Adama Sanogo jumps over Wheeler for the offensive rebound when we had the game in the bag. Stars come through in the clutch. Stars do it night in and night out. Until St, John's figures out how to bring 4 star recruits here, the outcome will be the same every year. Yes, player development matters. Coaching matters. But nothing matters more than talent. We play nearly every conference game with less of it.


And maybe this is the point.  Good enough to hang around but not to make all the key plays when needed.  But I don’t want to denigrate the scrappiness of these guys to hang in and keep most games
Close and in range.   It’s that innate ability that top players have that allows them to make those couple of  plays to win games.  I don’t really know.  I do know that our guys have shown that they are really close, just not quite there. 

 

 

[JohnnyFan]

Wusu 19 pts ,Coburn and Smith 0. Could have had this game.

Coburn barely played.

He looked really good while he was out there.

Why did coach start him?  He pulled him out within the first 2 minutes of the game and he played 5 total minutes last night.  Just mind boggling what goes through this coaches head regarding substitutions.

Fair to question rotations and substitutions, but to harping on Coburn is like spending time on whether the titanic's chandeliers were installed properly.   

 

[RJGBOOTSY]

Same game different day. Can not consistently win with this style and the type of horses against higher. level competition. With another thoroughbred or 2 we have a much greater chance of sucess. Nywie played a solid game. His development is coming. Will still have his up and downs but a better player than he was at the start of the season.
 
Last point how many dunks and easy baskets can we give up???

 

[we are sju]

Speculation yes but if Vegas gave odds on Posh leaving.......

 

[boo haarvey]

Before the game started, Marquette was leading 5 to 0. That's the number of 4* recruits Marquette plays compared to us. They have a 6th 4 star recruit that sits on the bench. Four star Justin Lewis was the best player on the court. He destroyed us.  We lost to Providence because 4 star Nate Watson overpowered out frontcourt. Same problem with the loss to UConn as 4* Adama Sanogo jumps over Wheeler for the offensive rebound when we had the game in the bag. Stars come through in the clutch. Stars do it night in and night out. Until St, John's figures out how to bring 4 star recruits here, the outcome will be the same every year. Yes, player development matters. Coaching matters. But nothing matters more than talent. We play nearly every conference game with less of it.

Pretty sure Mathis was four star 
 

 

[boo haarvey]

Wusu 19 pts ,Coburn and Smith 0. Could have had this game.

Coburn barely played.

He looked really good while he was out there.

Why did coach start him?  He pulled him out within the first 2 minutes of the game and he played 5 total minutes last night.  Just mind boggling what goes through this coaches head regarding substitutions.

Fair to question rotations and substitutions, but to harping on Coburn is like spending time on whether the titanic's chandeliers were installed properly.   

Did somebody post Coburn looked really good while he was out there?  I like Coburn but fact is he cost us at least eight points between fouling a three point shooter and missing two threes which led to fast breaks.  Not saying he shouldn’t have played more but he didn’t look good 
 

 

[monte]

Same game different day. Can not consistently win with this style and the type of horses against higher. level competition. With another thoroughbred or 2 we have a much greater chance of sucess. Nywie played a solid game. His development is coming. Will still have his up and downs but a better player than he was at the start of the season.
 
Last point how many dunks and easy baskets can we give up???

Agree on Nyiwe improving and having a good game. He's developing nicely. However a lot of those dunks were due to Nyiwe going for fakes and losing his man, andr being out of position. Not blaming him, since instinctive reaction is crucial for a big man, and he hasn't played enough to develop those instincts. With the right coaching, I do think he can be a solid contributor next season. OTOH, we have never been very good at developing big men. Z is a great guy, and seems to be doing a nice job with Soriano, hopefully he can do the same with Nyiwe. 

 

[Arkcmafan]

We have finished 8 or 9 per 247 in recruiting the last 3 classes. We are not going to consistently finished in top half of conference until recruiting improve. We need somehow land a Brandon Gardner in 2023 class. You are not going to win consistent landing kids rank above 250 in the country. It reason why kids are rank 4 and 5 stars. St John need some badly.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Returning arguable the best player in the conference returning one of the best freshman in the conference who was impact player returning the big east coach if the year a bad OOC schedule predictions by big east coaches to finish 4th it’s a crap year plain and simple IMO. We needed to break through this season now this puts a lot of pressure on next year. 

 

[redmannorth]

I appreciate honestly greatly and this is one of the most honest threads I have read in a while, no sugar coating, no wild speculation, no moving of goal posts or denial of facts. 
The experts rated us number 4 pre season and unless we win 3 or four more games this upcoming week the season has been a big disappointment, by far the worst in a long time. Why by far because we had expectations and valid expectations based upon the experts and our staff. Go back to last summer the staff was raving about Wheeler and Wusu, add those 2 to Posh and Champ and you have the making of a very good team. Add in a capable Soriano at the 5  and you have a very nice starting 5 with a deep bench. Well Wheeler and Wusu had to be the 2 most inconsistent players on the team. Wheeler was MIA, a complete bust, the first 12 games of the season until the lights went on. Unfortunately last night when we needed him to come up big he came up anything but big. Wusu is just a great kid  whom I love but game to game he is a radically different player. Last night he came up bigger and brighter than anyone else but where was he in our last few games. Now no one get me wrong, I am not crapping on the kids but rather their wild inconsistency  which I attribute to the staff and not the players. There is no valid reason that thirty games into the season, a group that has been together for the most part since May1, 2021 , over 9 months, generates such inconsistency. I have watched , studied and coached Bball over 50 years and never have I witnessed such an inconsistent team and players. 
Talk about winning a national championship is pure nonsense at this point, soon to start year 4 of CMAs tenure. We can’t make free throws, play proper D, run comprehensive offensive sets, run a proper play out of a time out , never mind consistent mediocre recruiting and the fact that certain players ignore the coach in the huddle. 
I am always hoping for the best as this is the only sports team I am invested in but right now I won’t be disappointed when this season ends. 
contrast same with Seton Hall who has greatly overachieved this season in spite of major injuries or Creighton that had to replace an entire team. Both of those teams will dance this year while the apathy among this die hard group of fans only increases. 

 

[Ray Morgan]

Before the game started, Marquette was leading 5 to 0. That's the number of 4* recruits Marquette plays compared to us. They have a 6th 4 star recruit that sits on the bench. Four star Justin Lewis was the best player on the court. He destroyed us.  We lost to Providence because 4 star Nate Watson overpowered out frontcourt. Same problem with the loss to UConn as 4* Adama Sanogo jumps over Wheeler for the offensive rebound when we had the game in the bag. Stars come through in the clutch. Stars do it night in and night out. Until St, John's figures out how to bring 4 star recruits here, the outcome will be the same every year. Yes, player development matters. Coaching matters. But nothing matters more than talent. We play nearly every conference game with less of it.

Pretty sure Mathis was four star 

You are right. I missed that one.  So 5 to 1.  You can see the difference in athleticism, especially with Marquette's  frontcourt vs. St. John's.  Not sure if he is hurt, but Marquette has a 4 star shooter that hardly leaves the bench. That's a luxury St. John's would never have.

 

 

[Section9]

Wusu 19 pts ,Coburn and Smith 0. Could have had this game.

Coburn barely played.

He looked really good while he was out there.

Why did coach start him?  He pulled him out within the first 2 minutes of the game and he played 5 total minutes last night.  Just mind boggling what goes through this coaches head regarding substitutions.

Fair to question rotations and substitutions, but to harping on Coburn is like spending time on whether the titanic's chandeliers were installed properly.   

Did somebody post Coburn looked really good while he was out there?  I like Coburn but fact is he cost us at least eight points between fouling a three point shooter and missing two threes which led to fast breaks.  Not saying he shouldn’t have played more but he didn’t look good 

I was being sarcastic.  i'm not saying he was the only reason we fell behind by 10-0 but he hoisted up two quick threes in his two minutes, they got the bounds and were off to the races.  Who knows what his attitude/body language was on the bench but maybe that's the reason he didn't see much time.  There was a shot of him on the bench in the second half and he looked disinterested.


 

 

[Section9]

Wusu 19 pts ,Coburn and Smith 0. Could have had this game.

Coburn barely played.

He looked really good while he was out there.

Why did coach start him?  He pulled him out within the first 2 minutes of the game and he played 5 total minutes last night.  Just mind boggling what goes through this coaches head regarding substitutions.

You wanted him to start and he did.  Obviously coach has a shorter leash on him than his regulars so when he jacked up those two quick threes and quette raced out to that 10-0 lead he had to make a change and Tareq was the most likely suspect.  As to why he gave Smith more time than Coburn I don't know, maybe he considered Smith's defense the lesser of two evils and as much as you like Coburn he's not the ball handler Smith is.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I appreciate honestly greatly and this is one of the most honest threads I have read in a while, no sugar coating, no wild speculation, no moving of goal posts or denial of facts. 
The experts rated us number 4 pre season and unless we win 3 or four more games this upcoming week the season has been a big disappointment, by far the worst in a long time. Why by far because we had expectations and valid expectations based upon the experts and our staff. Go back to last summer the staff was raving about Wheeler and Wusu, add those 2 to Posh and Champ and you have the making of a very good team. Add in a capable Soriano at the 5  and you have a very nice starting 5 with a deep bench. Well Wheeler and Wusu had to be the 2 most inconsistent players on the team. Wheeler was MIA, a complete bust, the first 12 games of the season until the lights went on. Unfortunately last night when we needed him to come up big he came up anything but big. Wusu is just a great kid  whom I love but game to game he is a radically different player. Last night he came up bigger and brighter than anyone else but where was he in our last few games. Now no one get me wrong, I am not crapping on the kids but rather their wild inconsistency  which I attribute to the staff and not the players. There is no valid reason that thirty games into the season, a group that has been together for the most part since May1, 2021 , over 9 months, generates such inconsistency. I have watched , studied and coached Bball over 50 years and never have I witnessed such an inconsistent team and players. 
Talk about winning a national championship is pure nonsense at this point, soon to start year 4 of CMAs tenure. We can’t make free throws, play proper D, run comprehensive offensive sets, run a proper play out of a time out , never mind consistent mediocre recruiting and the fact that certain players ignore the coach in the huddle. 
I am always hoping for the best as this is the only sports team I am invested in but right now I won’t be disappointed when this season ends. 
contrast same with Seton Hall who has greatly overachieved this season in spite of major injuries or Creighton that had to replace an entire team. Both of those teams will dance this year while the apathy among this die hard group of fans only increases. 

Yep no sugarcoating or making excuses. Yeah we could have won this game or that game etc but at the end of the season your record is what it is. How many times do we say well we would have won if we hit our foul shots. Well we didn’t hit our foul shots when needed some games that type of inconsistency isn’t acceptable. At the end of the day the kids are kids I love the kids I’m not knocking them but they aren’t put in the best possible position to succeed this year. Now the argument will be hey you aren’t a coach who has never had a losing record. Well that doesn’t give you a pass for the inconsistency this year recruit higher level kids then who are more consistent and don’t give up 99 points to DePaul which was basically a Mullin type coached game. Need much improvement next season I’m not even getting involved on the is CMA the guy thread I hope he is but he needs to do a lot better next year

 

[monte]

I appreciate honestly greatly and this is one of the most honest threads I have read in a while, no sugar coating, no wild speculation, no moving of goal posts or denial of facts. 
The experts rated us number 4 pre season and unless we win 3 or four more games this upcoming week the season has been a big disappointment, by far the worst in a long time. Why by far because we had expectations and valid expectations based upon the experts and our staff. Go back to last summer the staff was raving about Wheeler and Wusu, add those 2 to Posh and Champ and you have the making of a very good team. Add in a capable Soriano at the 5  and you have a very nice starting 5 with a deep bench. Well Wheeler and Wusu had to be the 2 most inconsistent players on the team. Wheeler was MIA, a complete bust, the first 12 games of the season until the lights went on. Unfortunately last night when we needed him to come up big he came up anything but big. Wusu is just a great kid  whom I love but game to game he is a radically different player. Last night he came up bigger and brighter than anyone else but where was he in our last few games. Now no one get me wrong, I am not crapping on the kids but rather their wild inconsistency  which I attribute to the staff and not the players. There is no valid reason that thirty games into the season, a group that has been together for the most part since May1, 2021 , over 9 months, generates such inconsistency. I have watched , studied and coached Bball over 50 years and never have I witnessed such an inconsistent team and players. 
Talk about winning a national championship is pure nonsense at this point, soon to start year 4 of CMAs tenure. We can’t make free throws, play proper D, run comprehensive offensive sets, run a proper play out of a time out , never mind consistent mediocre recruiting and the fact that certain players ignore the coach in the huddle. 
I am always hoping for the best as this is the only sports team I am invested in but right now I won’t be disappointed when this season ends. 
contrast same with Seton Hall who has greatly overachieved this season in spite of major injuries or Creighton that had to replace an entire team. Both of those teams will dance this year while the apathy among this die hard group of fans only increases. 

Spot on RMN. No more excuses, rationalizations, comments like "it's still early", etc etc. The regular  season is over. It was a failure by most accounts. We would have to win the Big East tournament and then win a game or 2 in the dance to salvage the season. But even that wouldn't  change where we stand as a program. Right now we are nowhere, and going nowhere. With all due respect to those who seem to feel that we have the right men at the helm and are headed in the right direction, I just don't see it.